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November 30, 2007 PrintSaveE-mailSize: +/–Washington truckers win overtime case Truckers who are based in the state of Washington have won a major court victory on overtime pay.

The Columbian newspaper reported that a state Supreme Court ruling was upheld on Monday, Nov. 26, when the U.S. Supreme Court refused to hear an appeal in the case.

The state court ruled earlier that truckers who log more than 40 hours a week are entitled to overtime pay. The decision opens the possibility that other drivers could file similar suits and force trucking companies to re-examine driver compensation.

The court awarded nearly $10,000 in unpaid overtime to trucker Larie Bostain of Vancouver, who had filed suit against his former employer, Food Express Inc. of Arcadia, CA.

“I would speculate that there will be a number of Washington-based carriers right now saying ‘Oh (insert your own four-letter word here),’ ” said OOIDA Executive Vice President Todd Spencer.

Despite the reality that many companies may not be too thrilled at this point, Spencer speculated that this court decision will likely have a silver lining in terms of its overall impact on trucking.

“For the more than two and a half decades that we’ve been involved in deregulation we keep seeing a significant degradation placed on the value of a driver’s time,” Spencer said. “Their time has always had a tremendous value, but because it has not been recognized as such by trucking companies, shippers and receivers, the work week for the driver has constantly been extended.”

Spencer said the hours-of-service regulations are intended to be the maximum permissible hours worked. But what has happened is that those limits have evolved to be the industry norm.

“The result is that a driver’s time ceases to have value, and the occupation becomes one that many people see as not a valuable occupation,” Spencer said. “That’s why we have this tremendous driver turnover and retention problem.”

Spencer pointed to ongoing issues with drivers’ abilities to comply with HOS regs and enforcement across the board.

“Trucking has evolved into likely the most inefficient industry in America in terms of utilization of human driver resources. ... This decision (in Washington) might encourage more efficient utilization of drivers’ time,” Spencer said.

“It will be a win-win for everyone – drivers and the companies they work for.”

By Land Line staff :twisted:

They didn't say if those drivers are paid hourly or by the mile/percentage. It'd be nice to get paid for the 30+ hours overtime we put in week after week.

the best news in trucking in ten years...









Train more drivers. Train youself out of a job.

It will be very surprising if this decision is not appealed to the federal level. For the most part truck drivers are exempt from federal wage and overtime laws. :cry:

I can understand this if the driver is paid by the hours. I doubt if it will fly if a drive is paid mileage. On mileage the driver is paid on performance. I don't see how this will work on mileage.

all my truckin jobs ALWAYS paid OT after 40. Expect for VENEZIA thats one of the reason i left after 3 weeks.

According to the OP the U.S. Supreme Court refused to hear an appeal.

[quote="Colts Fan"]Is trucking going to be a real job some day? Should we be treated as normal in the eyes of society? Are we someday going to be paid for all hours of our work. According to one magazine, if companies continue to put in more electronic devices for driver compliance, this may back fire in the companies faces and may be forced to pay drivers by the hour.

The text of the Washington law was clearly written to apply to local drivers, not leaving the state of Washington. The plaintiff in that case drove over 60% of his miles outside Washington. That state court is clearly legislating from the bench (by a hearty 5-4 margin as well). What they feel like the law should be is irrelevant. There is an explicit law on the books and these people are not legislators. Explain to me how the following passage leaves any room for interpretation:
As mentioned before, long haul drivers are intentionally left out of overtime laws and this was clearly the case in Washington as well. Further to that, trucking companies had operated under guidance from the state department in charge of their industry (title escapes me at the moment). That department had consistently advised companies that, like the law says, hours worked within Washington were the only ones subject to the rule.

On the woulda, coulda, shoulda part... I'm not naive enough to think that we would suddenly see a huge spike in pay if overtime were mandated. Our pay, largely falling in the $40-60,000 range, is a budgeted cost of doing business. Companies, when their hands are forced, don't just suddenly become benevolent donors and decide to operate at a loss. They would either (a) cut the base wage in order to make the pay come out roughly equal after overtime was added in, (b) limit us to 40 hours, effectively cutting our wages, and hire more people or farm out more work to railroads (c) give us the raise and then pass on 100% of the added costs to the end consumer, crippling our economy and saying "the feds made us do it", or (d) some combination of the above.

uturn, that is true but apparently state's wage and hour laws can supersede federal law. i'm sure that's what food express thought when they told the driver that he wasn't going to get overtime. maybe she wasn't aware of the law, afterall she is overworked! :wink:

a reference to that is here, the bottom of page 3, top of page 4

note on page 5 that washington state allows for double penalties, maybe that was why the award was so high.

gman,
i found an article relating to a case between a bakery and their driver/route salesmen that awarded overtime to them even though they weren't paid hourly but at a percentage. sadly now i can't find the damned thing. :roll: it does illustrate that overtime can be calculated without an hourly wage. i'll keep looking for it. :oops:

It was already appealed to the federal level...all the way to the US Supreme Court.


Not that it really matters. I'm sure Food Express will file bankruptcy to avoid paying.

What a bunch of idiots. It is apparent none of those who made those decisions have had to work at a real job or meet a payroll. If I had a business in Washington I would relocate as soon as possible. A salesman is paid on performance. He receives a commission on what he sells. Some route salesmen receive a base salary or draw against commission. So I suppose they are going to force companies to pay their salesmen a commission of 1 1/2 times their regular rate for those sales made after 40 hours? That should be a paperwork nightmare, for both the salesmen and company. These people don't have a clue. While I can agree that hourly workers should and do receive overtime pay for time over 40 hours of work, I can't see the logic when someone is paid mileage, percentage or commission. This will wind up hurting the companies, drivers and contractors. It will force carriers to have an unfair and unrealistic paper trail to just be legal in that state. Performance pay is just that.....you work harder you make more money. You produce more you make more money. You sell more you make more money. I can see companies reducing the pay in order to be able to afford to pay for the extra compensation they are forced to pay these people. A short term gain for the workers will wind up hurting them in the long run. I think these legislators and judges should be forced to work at a real job before passing all these rules for everyone else to follow. Excess regulations is what cost California thousands of good jobs. Companies just move to more friendly states. I think in order to be a judge or legislator in Washington means that you can't have any common sense. :roll:

Not totally stupid. Being if a person is on strictly commission, they work the hours they feel like. If they can do their sales in 1 hour a week, so be it. They can take the rest of the week off. Now, if the company requires a 100% commissioned salesman to punch a clock and work X number of hours, then according to federal law, they are then guaranteed a minimum wage for each week whether they make a sale or not.
A route salesman making base pay plus commission , then falls into a similar category. Being if he is required to work X number of hours per week, and the gross pay falls below the minimum wage, the company has to make up the difference.
Mileage pay is more tricky. The companies are labeling it as “performance pay,” “earn what your worth” or “the more you work the more you make.” slogans. BUT, if the companies actions towards say shippers and receivers, is one of letting the shippers and receivers to let you sit and wait, while loading and unloading others, this could be construed as the company’s actions denying you the opportunity to work, ie: run miles, and earn more money.
Depends on how you look at it. Each case could be different.

Hey wtf!
 

when will most drivers finally figure out that just like all the support staff at your company..you are an employee as well!
they get OT and so should drivers!..setting the cpm pay rate is great, but what about all the sitting?
do you think that the office staff would stay hired if they just sat around for 12-24 hours? heck no they would be canned.
every time i have to sit and wait 3000 miles from home i think of regular job people..when they are off..they are off.. sure i can walk over to the "j" and watch tv, eat some type of mystery buffet, and play some vids..but it is not really MY time off. drivers put up with a lot of hardships and lack of ot pay is one of them.
what do you suppose will happen if the had to pay you ot? think it would still take road call 6 hours to ok an oil change?

drivers need to start demanding to be treated as real employees!!

There is no such thing as mileage pay for company drivers. They call it that to deceive you.

All company Drivers are paid by the hour. CPM is a fraud.

Could you please elaborate on that one? While I am paid by the hour, as a driver, many are not. Most drivers in the O.T.R. world are paid "piece-work" or C.P.M. for their exhaustive efforts. I disagree with you that all company drivers are paid by the hour. The minimum wage that was set by the F.L.S.A. does not apply to safety sensitive jobs in relation to motor carriers. While I am no labor attorney, I did stay at the Holiday Inn Express last night and you will not find an attorney who will tell you that as an interstate driver you are entitled to the set minimum wage either by state or federal standards. Please do not take legal advice from Swift drivers.

Once again, Lips, it's the LAW!
 

I posted the law in the other thread where you erroniously stated minimum wage doesn't apply to Drivers. The language is pretty clear but if you still need help, try asking a Werner or Hunt Driver.


http://www.classadrivers.com/forum/a...-say-do-2.html

While minimum wage laws do apply, it is the OT laws that do not for drivers.

It is written into the federal labor law that methods of payment other than hourly must at least equal min wage when divided by the hours worked. (Paraphrased)

The article and the OP seem to want to indicate that this court decision would have positive repercussions industry wide. It won't. It is a state matter and would only effect companies that are based in that state.

If minimum wage laws applied to truck drivers then there should be massive class action lawsuits against Swift, J.B. Hunt, Werner, and all the other craptastic carriers. Just because you believe you should be getting at least minimum wage does not make it law.
Call a labor attorney and ask them.

Once again and again, Lips, it's the law . .
 

Posted without bothering to read the law, I trust? It is just that kind of pervasive ignorance that helps to perpetuate the CPM scam. Drivers "assume" that these so called "reputable" companies could never participate in such a massive fraud. But that's exactly what they're doing and that's why you never hear them use the words minimum and wage in the same sentence. Make the Driver believe that all labor is encompassed within the CPM standard.

You go right ahead and keep on preaching ignorance. While you're sitting back and wagging your tongue about something you know nothing about, I'll continue my campaign to try and educate and elevate all Drivers.

Exemptions from Overtime Pay Only

U.S. Department of Labor - Employment Standards Administration (ESA) - Wage and Hour Division - U.S. Department of Labor-Handy Reference Guide to the Fair Labor Standards Act

Exemptions from Overtime Pay Only

2. Employees of railroads and air carriers, taxi drivers, certain employees of motor carriers, seamen on American vessels, and local delivery employees paid on approved trip rate plans;

The overtime exemption

http://www.dol.gov/esa/whd/regs/compliance/whdfs19.pdf

I can just see it now. OTR drivers are paid overtime after 40 hours. Carriers will stop them from running past 40 hours wherever they are and they can sit until the start of the next pay period to avoid overtime. That should make some drivers happy. :roll:

Dateline: Waterloo, IA -26f
 

You can see it happening in Washington State, right now. It isn't like I'm making this up as I go. I'm pretty sure the carriers have determined it makes more sense to keep the trucks out and running frieght.

The onus is on the carrier . . smack where it belongs . . to run the truck more efficiently. Why would you have a problem with that?

am i the only one that noticed that the newspaper article being quoted here is well over 1 year old. kinda seems like y'all are arguing over old news. here is my idea...for what is worth. for those of you that feel you and all truck drivers do not get paid what you are worth or are paid unfairly...go find another damn job in another industry!!! go work in a salaried position somewhere and get paid based ona 45 hour week and actually work about 60 or better. or go get one of these all mighty hourly paying jobs and get you 40 hours..if you are lucky, because at some place full time is considered 32 hours. oh, and by the way...the economy sucks and we cannot afford ANY overtime, period, end of discusion. hey ask mackman how the hourly pay with, uhm,uhm..overtime is going right now (no offense mackman). i am pretty damn happy with my job, very damn happy with my pay. why stay doing something that makes you so miserable?

JD...This thread is a "Revival" topic. It sat dormant for months, before someone drug it back out.

:rofl::rofl::rofl:

ohh, my bad...but i still meant what i said in the second half of my post.

No Offense is taken Jed.

I'm laid off right now so it sucks. But back in the summer when dump truckin is booming i pulled in some good checks getting paid OT. But now I'm looking for a non-seasonal job. This f-ed up economy dont help thats for sure. You like your CPM or %. I like my hourly pay. Its all in what you like.:D

We're having a heat wave . . Walcott, IA +4f
 

Here is my idea . . for what it's worth: How about we put an end to the fraud and lay all the cards on the table? Then let the Drivers decide whether we are being paid fairly and THEN we'll ask ourselves whether we should move on. How many times have you seen posts by Drivers who started with this company, couldn't get enough miles, went there, couldn't get enough miles . . on and on and on. It's very clear to me that a lot of drivers don't understand how they, by law, are entitled to be paid. The truth deserves a fair hearing.

I don't claim ownership to any of the information you see here. Others have alluded to what I'm saying and this stuff has probably been tossed around many times before I ever got behind the wheel of a truck. It looks like I've managed to crack a few shells between this, the "What would you do?" thread and others I have participated in, on CAD and elsewhere. Rome wasn't built in a day. You can read the law, check the sources . . or not . . and think whatever you want. There is nothing new in rejecting the truth. If it's new or unfamiliar or goes against something you've been taught or told a bazillion times, it's human nature to reject it.

What I'm not hearing is, look, nutso, you're wrong and you're wrong for the following reasons with sources to support your position. We have posters who purport to be employers themselves and yet cannot provide a single reference to prove they're right or that I'm wrong. Disagreeing with me doesn't prove anything other than a.) you haven't read the law or b.) you have read it but can't understand it.