The Changing Industry

[Part Time Dweller]

My drivers don't work for free. I pay a percentage of everything the truck makes except the fuel surcharge

So how much does the truck make sitting in a loading dock?

So, one driver hit the jackpot and made $1400 last week, how many hours did he work to get that? I know you pay percentage, but did the guy do it in 40- 50 hours? Or was it more like 100? Big difference there sport. You don't pay on a 1099 by chance, do you?

[GMAN]

I didn't ask him how many hours he worked and I haven't received his logs as yet. What difference does it make? He is making good money and is running legal as far as I know. Most of the drivers I have had over the years consistently average a decent paycheck. I don't usually push my drivers. They pretty much work at their own pace. I don't like waiting, but it is part of this business. If you can't deal with it then you need to find something else to do. There are always things people don't like about their jobs. I don't care if you make minimum wage or $100 million dollars. There are always things people don't like about their jobs. You just find a job where you can deal with the positives as well as the negatives and go from there. Perhaps you are too worried about the little things. If you do your job well the money will come.

[Walking Eagle]

I think what Gman is saying is right, if you work by the mile or % you are a hussler and a worker and can make money ! You have the chance to make big $$$s or little $$$s, up to you. If you work by the hour or week you are just sliding with what the boss is willing to give you, and you will accept. That $1000 load (pay check) you you hauled last week might have been a $2000 load (pay check) if you were on %.
Fixed wages will never make you rich, or even comfortable. Have to go out there and make it happen.

[Part Time Dweller]

Sounds like migrant worker pay to me. The more veggies you pick the more you make. If there aren't any ready, or you have to wait for things beyond your control, then you get squat and it doesn't cost the boss anything. I thought sweat shops were a thing of the past, I guess not.

[coastie]

In with the subject of demanding this and that I have to agree. Jobs are harder to get now, and for me even harder trying to get back out to work.

I personally do not make demands, least I do not think I do. I can careless for Pete's anyway. Seems every Company I drove a Pete for, I did not make money with anyway, so I have a mental block against them. When asked where I like to drive or willing to drive, I always put it I prefer, but will go where sent. As for home time, When asked, just get me through the house once a month, Now I have to get a B12 shot once a month, so my body will make the Blood it needs to run.

[Rockjockey]

That's funny, Gman. The difference it makes is if the guy worked even the legal amount of hours with no log book shenanigans at all, it took him 70 hours to make the $1400. I doubt it was a true 70 as you had to throw in the disclaimer that he runs legal "as far as I know", which means he turns in legal logs and that is all you care about. My question is, does he make that every week, or is it a once in a while thing?
I can make the same money in a 50 hour week on the clock, working local, getting paid for every minute I am working, whether the wheels are turning or I am waiting. Why should I sit for free because of someone else's bad planning as you expect your drivers to do?

Walking Eagle, while you think there is more incentive to work harder when you get paid percentage, I think it is my job to work hard no matter how I get paid. When I did work for percentage, I never knew if the boss was telling me the true rate. Even Gman says he doesn't count the fuel surcharge part of the rate. Who knows what else in the rate he thinks the driver does not deserve a percentage of? That's why I like an hourly rate. My employer and I agree on that rate, and there is question of what I get paid. If he thinks I am not giving him an honest day's work for that wage, he has the option of firing me. Seems pretty simple to me.

[Part Time Dweller]

If you work by the hour or week you are just sliding with what the boss is willing to give you, and you will accept.

Nice try Eagle, but so does is the percentage/mileage driver. You are just sliding with what the boss/dispatcher is willing to give you, and you will accept.

[Part Time Dweller]

I didn't ask him how many hours he worked and I haven't received his logs as yet. What difference does it make?

To you, I am sure it makes no difference. If you can find drivers willing to give away their waiting time and deadhead for free, it is to your advantage financially. To the driver, it should make a difference, as his percentage of the above mentioned is $0.

If you can't deal with it then you need to find something else to do.

I did just that. Get paid from the time I open the hood in the morning till I turn the key off at the end of the day.Even when I do a road trip, like last month when I got sent to WV to PU a piece of equipment with a lowboy. I got paid from the time I started my PTI till the time I shut the truck off, except 1/2 hour for lunch each day, including fueling.I also stayed in company paid motel. The difference is I don't work for some 1099 paying, no benefit no paid holiday, no paid vacation fleet owner, getting paid xx% of the 70% of what the truck makes.

Sure, $1400 is great money per week. I do that, or more regularly in 5days, M-F. When your guy does it in 7 days, ( 70 logged, hours, we all know it is more like 100 actual) it is chump change. Sweat shops went out years ago in this country, except for OTR trucking. Hey, more power to you GMAN, if you can keep finding chumps, go for it, but don't be surprised when they finally figure out they are getting the dry shaft and quit.

If you do your job well the money will come.

I do and it has.

[GMAN]

That's funny, Gman. The difference it makes is if the guy worked even the legal amount of hours with no log book shenanigans at all, it took him 70 hours to make the $1400. I doubt it was a true 70 as you had to throw in the disclaimer that he runs legal "as far as I know", which means he turns in legal logs and that is all you care about. My question is, does he make that every week, or is it a once in a while thing?
I can make the same money in a 50 hour week on the clock, working local, getting paid for every minute I am working, whether the wheels are turning or I am waiting. Why should I sit for free because of someone else's bad planning as you expect your drivers to do?

I cannot baby sit a driver, nor do I want to. I expect my drivers to run and log legally. Since I am not in the truck with them I have no way of know for sure if they are telling me the truth or not. So, as far as I know they are running legal. If I find they are doing other wise they are history. I will not jeopardize my business for anyone. You work by the hour. Unless your employer is sitting in the truck with you there is no way he can tell if you are working all the time that you are on the clock. I suspect you are not.

Walking Eagle, while you think there is more incentive to work harder when you get paid percentage, I think it is my job to work hard no matter how I get paid. When I did work for percentage, I never knew if the boss was telling me the true rate. Even Gman says he doesn't count the fuel surcharge part of the rate. Who knows what else in the rate he thinks the driver does not deserve a percentage of? That's why I like an hourly rate. My employer and I agree on that rate, and there is question of what I get paid. If he thinks I am not giving him an honest day's work for that wage, he has the option of firing me. Seems pretty simple to me.

The fuel surcharge is to offset the higher costs of fuel. It is not part of the rate. I have a contract I sign with all new drivers. It explains how I pay. The fsc is excluded with me as it is with most other carriers unless you own the truck. I pay on everything the truck makes other than the fsc. And my drivers are welcome to see the rate confirmations if they request it. They can also talk with the broker or shipper any time they wish if they doubt that I am telling them the truth. And no, the driver does not deserve to receive a percentage of the fsc unless he wants to pay his percentage of the fuel costs. When a guy works on percentage or mileage you know if he is producing. So does he. If he works by the hour you have no way of knowing how much time he spends doing his job or playing video games.

[GMAN]

To you, I am sure it makes no difference. If you can find drivers willing to give away their waiting time and deadhead for free, it is to your advantage financially. To the driver, it should make a difference, as his percentage of the above mentioned is $0.



I did just that. Get paid from the time I open the hood in the morning till I turn the key off at the end of the day.Even when I do a road trip, like last month when I got sent to WV to PU a piece of equipment with a lowboy. I got paid from the time I started my PTI till the time I shut the truck off, except 1/2 hour for lunch each day, including fueling.I also stayed in company paid motel. The difference is I don't work for some 1099 paying, no benefit no paid holiday, no paid vacation fleet owner, getting paid xx% of the 70% of what the truck makes.

Sure, $1400 is great money per week. I do that, or more regularly in 5days, M-F. When your guy does it in 7 days, ( 70 logged, hours, we all know it is more like 100 actual) it is chump change. Sweat shops went out years ago in this country, except for OTR trucking. Hey, more power to you GMAN, if you can keep finding chumps, go for it, but don't be surprised when they finally figure out they are getting the dry shaft and quit.

I do and it has.

So, $1400 is chump change, eh? Sweat shops? :rolleyes: Do you really know what a sweat shop is? When I was a company driver I wasn't working 100 hours per week to earn a decent living. Of course, I didn't count the time I went to the toilet, showered or had a meal. I only count the time a actually WORK.

[Part Time Dweller]

$1400 is chump change if it takes 7 days to make it. I know in your world you are trained to look at the amount, but a smart driver looks at how much time it takes to make that money.

As far as production while on the clock, it isn't too hard to figure out if a driver is slacking, all one needs to do is look at what he got done at the end of the day. If I have x amount of loads to do or x amount of machines to move, they had all best be done or there better be a good reason why not. If am hauling stone or dirt, the time on each ticket pretty much explains if I am slacking or not. Most of the time the trucks are also being paid by the hour, so the boss doesn't really care how long it takes, but the customer we are working for sure does.

I cannot baby sit a driver, nor do I want to. I expect my drivers to run and log legally. Since I am not in the truck with them I have no way of know for sure if they are telling me the truth or not.

Wink Wink, nudge, nudge. And you wonder why the Gov. is pushing for EOB's?

Now, what about the 1099 thing? Or the no benefits? Or the free wait and deadhead?

Obviously you don't understand what a sweatshop is. It is when an employee gets low pay for the amount of hours worked, long hours no benefits, usually piecemeal work where he gets no money for idle time beyond his control, and free room and board. Sound familiar?

[Rockjockey]

Unless your employer is sitting in the truck with you there is no way he can tell if you are working all the time that you are on the clock. I suspect you are not.

I see...everyone should believe you because you are so honest, but according to you, I am a liar. Just because you are not honest, don't assume everyone else isn't. As PTD explained, there are many ways for a local driver's boss to know if he is working or slacking, just as there are many ways for an OTR drivers boss to know the same.

The fuel surcharge is to offset the higher costs of fuel. It is not part of the rate.

I worked for percentage in a dump truck for ten years. Every time my boss raised the rates, it was because of the fuel costs. I received my cut of that rate raise every time, because my percentage was based on what it cost to move the load. I only received 32% of the cost because the owner paid for the fuel and other business expenses. The fuel is one of the major parts of the rate, no matter what load of bs you sell to your drivers.

And my drivers are welcome to see the rate confirmations if they request it. They can also talk with the broker or shipper any time they wish if they doubt that I am telling them the truth.

That's funny. How does the driver know that you are showing him the real rate confirmation? You assumed I am dishonest, so I have to assume the same for you. By the way, how many companies let the driver past the dock and into the office to confirm rates? In my very short over the road stint, every customer I visited had a designated area for drivers, and none of those areas included the office of the guy who set the rates with the shipper. Of course, I am sure that person would answer a phone call from your drivers to confirm the rate. Do your drivers still believe in Santa Claus?

If he works by the hour you have no way of knowing how much time he spends doing his job or playing video games.

I already addressed this, but since you bring it up twice, I will address it again. How come a big time businessman like yourself can't figure out how much time it takes to get loaded, drive however many miles it takes, and then get unloaded? All the trucking companies I have worked for can do this, how come you can't?

[BIG JEEP on 44's]

T





Sure, $1400 is great money per week. I do that, or more regularly in 5days, M-F. When your guy does it in 7 days, ( 70 logged, hours, we all know it is more like 100 actual) it is chump change.

:

you must work a ton of hours m-f to equal or best $1400 wk...because at 50hrs you would need to be at 28hr to gross $1400 and around 30hr to best $1400...and $1400wk is about 70k a year...how is 65-70k chump change ?...where do you work .

[Rockjockey]

Actually, Big Jeep, you only need to be making around $25 an hour to reach $1400, because overtime kicks in after 8 or 40 depending on who you work for. The good non-union companies in our area pay that or more to get good drivers. Prevailing wage at the union companies ranges from $28-33 an hour depending on what contract the company is working under (pit hauler, road work, general construction, etc.). An easy 10 hour day, in which the driver gets paid for every minute he is at work easily gives a driver around here a $1400 paycheck. Most companies work harder than that, giving a driver a bigger paycheck.

The difference is that $1400 in 5 days here is kind of ordinary, while for Gman's driver it seems like it was the exception, not the rule. As PTD said, it is only chump change if it was earned in the typical OTR driver fashion, log 70, work 90 or 100 hours.

[Part Time Dweller]

you must work a ton of hours m-f to equal or best $1400 wk.

No

..because at 50hrs you would need to be at 28hr to gross $1400 and around 30hr to best $1400..

Bingo, we have a winner!

and $1400wk is about 70k a year...how is 65-70k chump change ?..

Let me rephrase that.........$65-70k a year is a good wage, as long as it doesn't take the chump 7 days a week living in a truck, home once a month for 2 days to make it, then it is a chump wage. Guys like Gman will tell you how great that is, but he has a vested interest to pay his drivers the least amount possible, as long as he can keep finding chumps, more power to him.

I worked for a landscaping company a few years ago as a drive/ mechanic. In the summer, we worked 7 days a week, like 80+ hours a week, time and a half after 40. My gross was right at $3000 per week, take home $2000. After a couple months of that, I got burned out big time, but the $$ was worth it. There is no way I would work the same hours dwelling for a measly $1400 per week. That is wher the chump change part comes in.

..where do you work .

A medium sized excavating company.

[4roses_o1]

Very well put .. agree 100 %

[Windwalker]

My drivers don't work for free. I pay a percentage of everything the truck makes except the fuel surcharge. You should not assume things about my business that you have no way of knowing. I just paid one driver over $1,400 last week. I doubt that he feels he is working for free or minimum wage. :rolleyes:

When a person takes a job with any company, the act of taking the job in the first place is an implied agreement to provide the work it takes to get the job done. It does not matter if it's percentage, by the mile, or by the hour. Just taking the job says you will do the work for that pay. With dry-van, it's pretty much cut and dry. Reefer, not much different. Flatbed could mean a variety of different details that must be done. But you have already agreed to do what it takes for the amount of pay you get. When you start complaining about what you have to do, you are backing off on your agreement. Think about it. Signing your application is sort of like signing a contract. So, refusing to do part of your job is sort of like "Breach of contract".

I've gone into customers where you have to drop your empty, hook to the loaded trailer and pull it out of a dock, then re-hook to your empty and put it into the dock. Then, finally, you are free to take the load and leave. I also know of drivers that have dropped their empty, hooked to the load and left. "I don't get paid for a double drop and hook". Believe it or not, that constitutes BREACH OF CONTRACT. And, I also know of companies that have lost contracts with customers because of that. I have no idea how many times I have made 3 and even 4 drops and hooks at a customer to put someone else's trailer in the dock. No company I have ever pulled for has lost an account because of me. A couple even got more freight because of "favors" for customers. When my current company cut back the number of trucks, they made a special effort to tell me they were NOT letting me go.

You do the job you were hired to do, for the pay you, yourself, agreed to accept.
And, you do it SAFELY.

That's how you stay in a company's good graces, and that's how you get your pay raises.

[Part Time Dweller]

I wouldn't let a driver go that volunteers to do all kinds of free labor either, Yankee Turbo.

I remember a company I worked on percentage, decided at one Cold Storage they wanted us to shuttle trailers in and out of the dock to save the $25 spotter charge on each. Nobody would do it, beyond the trailer we were hooked to when we checked in, if they needed that one in a dorr, no problem. But to spend part of my 14 hours doing charity work, no thanks.

I suppose if you worked there they would have had one volunteer. but they couldn't understand why we didn't want to help the company save money.

Funny how none of us got fired, I guess they didn't need the money that bad.

[BIG JEEP on 44's]

Well I took a warehouse job and now am taking a yard jockey position it's only 20hr for me to start ,but Im only pulling trailers around the brewery ...hell the warehouse at only 14hr paid more consistant than GTS did and technically more if broken down to the hour ...I like driving OTR I just don't like making 30-35k a year for living at the job 24/7 for 4-6 wks in a row with no real life ...I took the warehouse position while waiting for con-way TL to call...which they did ,but in those 2 weeks I got back to the gym hitting the weights ,and kind of wanted to continue to do so and get jacked again ,so I inquired into hostler positions and got that offered so no more OTR for now and tons of free time to pursue personal ambitions like getting back to 5 wheels on the bench before I'm to old to do it again .

[DaveP]

Cops are WAY underpaid. The good ones do it because they LOVE their job.

Teachers are WAY underpaid. The good ones do it because they LOVE their job.

I'm a company flatbedder. I'm paid percentage. I LOVE my job. I also do it well. Because of this I get a LOT of the good paying loads because usually more is expected by the customer and the company is CONFIDENT on my ability to get the job done.

I also live in the South and I bet my "chump change"$1000 to $1400 paycheck goes WAY farther than the "average" paycheck stated you make due to the fact the cost of living is much lower here...

I feel I'm an honest, hard-working man supporting his family and making his contribution to society in fine style AND I'm happy with that...

And that's wrong...HOW?