Synthetic vs Petroleum
 

I'm a firm believer in synthetic oils, I use them regularly in all of our transmissions and differentials. they tend to withstand heat better and exhibit less viscosity breakdown. You can also go for longer periods between change intervals.

I'm just curious what everyone's thoughts are on using synthetics in the engines. I find it hard to justify that sort of expense, because engine oils are typically changed every 10,000 to 20,000 miles (depending on your fleet standards and truck application) Granted, you can get an extended enterval with the synthetic, but only an extra 10,000 miles maybe.

Do any of you think its worth the extra cost?

I'm in a total agreement with you on this one! :) Sintetics is a MUST, for tranny and axles. But not worth an effort on engine. I know, some large fleets using it, with 60,000 oil change interval, but than again, i wouldn't recomend those trucks. :D

Even for a senthetic, 60k is A LOT of miles to go between oil changes. I sure hope they inspect the rest of the truck between those at some point!!!

Nah.. they'll just trade it at the point the trouble gonna starts. :sad: And than some poor fella gonna buy it from "Select trucks" :evil: They not gonna keep it for long, why would they care!? :x

I dont mind senthetics for the reas and the axles but give me the petrol oil for my motors between oil changes

I'm in agreement with solo on this one. Senthitics are ok for rear ends and transmissions but give me my hi-grade oil for my engins to burn out there on the highways and make it Shell Rotella 15-40 or Mobil oil 15-40 weight oils for the road

I've used synthetic oil in all of my trucks since 1988. In the older engines, you'll get less smoke and pollution and less curious cops. You'll have less carbon buildup, less wear on your bearings and cylinder walls, since synthetic oil always leaves a film. Your motor will run cooler and start easier in the winter because synthetic oil will not thicken like reg motor oil. You'll never have a dry startup then, because of the film.
Plus, I have gotten an extra 1/2 mile to the gallon. On reg Rotella, I would change my oil every 10,000 miles. With Amsoil, I change my oil every 30,000 and my filter every 10,000. I send a oil sample in to Cat every so often and have never had a bad report.
If running synthetic oil in your motor makes you feel uneasy, why does every ship, and every airline use it their engines?
NO, I'm not a salesman for Amsoil, I just like the product.

HHmmmm..... 108 views and only 7 have voted? They couldn't be afraid now, could they?

Amsoil Synthetic.....
 

Have been a faithful user of Amsoil Synthetic even in my cars. As soon as they have 6,000 to 8,000 mi. on them, they're switched to Amsoil. The company I used to drive for has used it in their fleet for nearly 20 years. It can't be beat, blows Mobil I off the charts for lubrication.

synthetic
 

OK, so what weight synthetics do you use in your rear ends and trannys?

how many miles between amsoil changes do you run. what about tranny, rear end. thanks

You suppost to change "sintetic" in rears and tranny, every 250k miles. And i still wouldn't recomend sintetic in a engine, espetualy on a older truck, that used to run on mineral!

I agree with solo about using synthetics in an engine that's used to mineral oils... don't do it.

250K for trans and rears is dead on with synthetics. Personally, I use a 50 weight in the trans and a 75w90 in the rears. Check your owner's manual and consider the temperature ranges you'll be running in before selecting a grade for your truck. 75w90 probably won't cut it in Las Vegas, NV where asphalt temps easily reach 180 degrees in summer, nor would it perform well in Boston in the winter where it's typically frozen for the entire season. What conditions you drive your truck in will decide what weight of oil to use.

carhaulinjunkie, I usually run 30,000 miles between oil changes and 10,000 between filter changes. These standards are the most I'll do. My supplier says if I had to, it wouldn't hurt anything to go longer if need be, because this oil does not breakdown like a petroleum based will.

Do not put this oil in an older motor, because the cleaning properties will cause quite a few leaks from where your'e old oil has deposits, typically around valve covers, oil pan gaskets to name a few.
I tried it in an old ford of mine years ago and turned my driveway into a mess.

ARE YOU NUTS!!!

I use AMSoil sea60w oil and change it frequently.
I change my oil every 6,000miles and filter's every 3,000 miles.
All my diesel's seem to last. on gas engine's i do oil every 3000 and filter's every 1000 miles....

ARE YOU NUTS!!!

I use AMSoil sea60w oil and change it frequently.
I change my oil every 6,000miles and filter's every 3,000 miles.
All my diesel's seem to last. on gas engine's i do oil every 3000 and filter's every 1000 miles....


Who's NUTS? Or are you just wealthy? Who uses a racing oil, 60W in their Cat, Cummins, or Detroit? 7-8 gallons of oil do not have to be changed every 6000 miles.
http://amsoil.com/products/motoroils/index.htm http://amsoil.com/products/ahr.html IS THIS YOUR'E OIL? It's the only 60W they sell!

I really believe you don't have a clue as to what you just said. If you want to change your Amsoil every 6000 miles and filters 3000 miles, you must have alot of money, because it's not necessary.

Youv'e got to have a hell of a landscaping fleet....

Your thinking of the Right stuff Like $8.50/QT ya that's it..
I just do better then routine Maintaince is all.

I'm very picky about my oil.

I'll go check that link in a second but that sound's like the right stuff.

you guy's are over the road I'm in the dust,the dirt, the sand ,and the MUD. i have to change my oil, oil filter's,and luber finder's + air filter's more offten then you do...

But it only get's used in the summer fleet truck's the 52-78's and the miliatry truck's 66-76's.

the 80's winter beater's get Wal-mart super tech 20w-50.....

i get a lower bluk rate as i buy it 300gallon's at a time.
300 gallon's last about 2-3 season's normally.

we do Construction,destruction,landscaping, and excavating.

i run KT-450 Cummins's turned up to 475hp, with 13 spd OD trans.
the 5.9L Cummins's turned up to 325hp,with 5spd OD tran's.
One 711END mack with an Added turbo running 380hp,with 15spd Triplex.

My old beast have Up dated Power plant's and over sized tires they all cruze 67mph.... witch for us is plenty fast. but you can push them up to 78-80mph but your redlined..

I also use thwe AMSOIL 85W-140 Gear lube in the Nice fleet as well But that only get's changed once a year in the truck's that are mostly on road and the truck's that are off road most of the time get it changed twice a year..

pluse it take a good long while to hit 6,000 miles... most of my truck's only see like 28,000- 40,000 miles a year. some get more miles some get less it depend's on what's needed and whats not...

BTW the 1952-1978 MD & HD truck's and the 1966-1976 Military 6x6's are considered the " nice " fleet.......

the Nice get's Work from mid spring to Mid fall....

then the beater's take over ..... the 80's stuff is used in the winter month's and year round.....
I also rarly use any truck's lighter then a 1-Ton dually.....

COSTS AND TIME...
 

SYNTHETICS HAVE PROVEN TO OUT PERFORM PETROLEUM BASED OILS!

Initial cost is more, but less frequent changes saves money and time.

I used to rebuild cylinder heads 30 years ago and to give you an example, while not exactly the same but similar in theory, we checked out a guys cylinder head that ran on propane. 200,000 miles and not even a shadow of crud. Valves had light "dust" and all ports were as if you'd just sand blasted the head. We had to resurface it and it only took .001 or .002" compared to .008 to .009.

The synthetics actually leave a thin film so no dry or hard cold winter starts

Only one comment made to me over the past ten years was if you flood the engine, then you "wash" away the 'film' properties... I don't know how true this is as I am not into wrenching or trouble shooting repairs...

Well i might change my oil too much but in the dust and dirt of off road work I'd rather chnge it early then late...... 8) :shock: 8)

I am an avid user of AMSOIL thus I was conviced to become a dealer of it. With the by-pass oil filter kit, available for all engines not just big rig motors the small diesels love the stuff too. As far as your four wheeler we have an oil that goes 25,000 with one filter change at 12,500 no need for the oil analasys on the gassers. I am aware of many OTR trucks that have put 500,000 miles on the oil, This is only possible by routine as in every20,000 or so. Routine filter changes and at the time of this you send in the oil sample at 15 or so dollars they list all the contaminates and the oil wear package levels and a recommendation as to wether or not to run it further. If your motor is tight and right when you start on it you will see a very long service life. The expense of the filter kit and filters may seem hi at first but with the extended run time increased production by not stopping for oil changes as often and the fact that you will see a reduction in engine wear it is the only way to go. Your warranty will be unaffected by law and amsoil has a warranty that states if you have an oil related problem while following filter maint and analasys recommendations they will fix it! Mobil one is a mineral base stock oil even though it says synthetic. It is not extended run so do not try this with any other brand. For any questions I can be reached at 1-386-547-1191 I have free incoming calls on my cell phone so as long as it is business related feel free to call from 7 am to 10 pm eastern time. Once you are my customer I will be glad to here from you 24-7-365. I also install any or all of this for or with you, In daytona and surronding areas

Hey Mack that guy ain't nuts that is the beauty. I have a customer who does it the way you do and I try to convince him and he insists on spending the money,I feel guilty taking his money.

amsoil has a washable reusable air filter line that is always growing they trap particles down to one micron. If they don't have one for you they will custom make it and probably put into production if there is a demand for it. The by-pass oil filter traps down to less than one micron and even removes water and fuel from the oil. It does this because it is ester resin base stock and water and fuel are only contaminates not dissolved into the oil. With the gear lubes and oils, fuel additives we have you can see 8-10% increase in mpg. some have had even better results. as it is less volatile you will have much less oil burn off meaning the oil needs less topping off and does not lose its protective qualities.If you don't get it from me please..... get it from someone as it is not snake oil they have been around since 1974!

Larry, If you flood and it rinses it off the oil will be a film as soon as the motor runs. Amsoil claims that the film is still detectable up to a year. too much flooding and you will be breaking down any oil but see above reply about by-pass kits, they are great on gassers too but, I only reccommend this on gas engines you plan on owning a long time. most folks are trading in cars and light so often nowadays that I do not feel they will reap the benefits before trade in time.

petroleum or synthetic...
 

Brent, if you're into selling this synthetic, you would know about "dry" engines... ? I've read where there are traceable deposits after one year, as it "fuses" so to speak into the metal itself, kind of like a teflon pan.

It's when people brought their cars into a shop that I managed for Precision Tune awhile back that I encountered minute metal particles in the oil and further questioning of customers indicated occasional flooding, thus no protection to metal moving parts for a few seconds.

Change an oil pump and don't pack it with petroelum jelly and about the time you get the engine fired up, you have spun a bearing. Dry pumps can get like that, those tempermental little suckers/pumpers! Or, it's about the time a bearing takes to break down a little and onlly a few repeats causes sloppy seating, thus more wear and tear, causing a never ending cycle.

Brent, please check into this with your "manufacturers" as you should have as a rep their technical bulletins... and please let me know how true this is.

Again, customers don't always tell the whole truth and nothing but the truth for fear of looking like idiots... :oops:

Some customers didn't realize they had been flooding their engines, they just thought it was using too much gas for only god knows how long>>>

Larry Cuskey email: [email protected] :rock:

Synthetics are a bad idea with high miles engines, because the synthetic oil gets by the seals because it is so slick. This is why synthetics leak in older engines.

btw, guest was me, I forgot to login. :?

I don't buy the oil for my company but i know in my halfton, synthetic is 4 or 5 dollars more a liter. A big truck will take what 40L? That adds up fast. Especially when you put 4800 miles a week, and change oil every 3 weeks. Thats 17 changes a year, even at only 4 bucks a liter more thats $2,720 a year in extra cost. I mean sure you'll get better cold weather starts and a little less wear, but if you get 600,000 miles on a motor in 3 years, that $8,100 will sure help with your overhaul. Multiply that by how many trucks? My guess is that more often than not your motor job might come from driver inattention or abuse or a failure unlinked to your bottom end. In that situation your just blowing your money out the window, for bugger all.

My 1998 VW Jetta has a standard oil change interval of 10,000 miles. But with AMSOIL synthetic diesel motor oil, I can (& do) go safely 20,000 miles between oil changes, with a filter change every 10,000 miles.

I verified thru oil analysis that 20,000 mile change intervals are just fine. 8)

Oh, well..... just my two cents worth: http://www.amsoil.com/lit/g1343.pdf

also: http://www.amsoil.com/lit/g392.pdf

also: http://www.amsoil.com/lit/g1967.pdf


These links are not off my site, so I don't make a penny off of them! I have seen the 24 minute DVD of this engine teardown [top link] at 631,000 miles. The truck [Mack E7-400] was purchased at 200K and had Amsoil 15W-40 Heavy Duty Diesel Oil installed in the engine after a 20 minute standing flush. The same oil stayed in this engine the whole 431K, with the exception of quarts added at filter change intervals on the Dual Remotes. An Engine 'Rater' from Lubrizol was hired to analyze the wear during the filming. Conclusion, minimal wear! This engine is now still parted out and mounted in a plexiglass case for display at various Truck shows. It will be at the M.A.T.S. show. Personally, I wouldn't have believed it but the evidence is pretty convincing! Faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. Conviction is based on the evidence of things seen - of what you have hoped for! I use it in my Allegro 31' motorhome, my Nissan truck, my BMW Cooper MINI and my 50 HP 4-Stroke Suzuki outboard motor. I also use all the 5 mm oil filters. My Direct Jobber has over 100 K on the same oil in his late model Tahoe. tlk

This is completely an urban legend. Not such thing happens!!! It was a myth perpetrated by the petroleum based oil manufacturers many years ago, and the legend seems to never seem to die.

The truth is, synthetic & petroleum oils are 100% compatible! 8)

In an effort to set the record straight, I have assembled here ten of the more persistent myths about synthetic motor oils to see how they stack up against the facts.

Myth #1: Synthetic motor oils damage seals.

Untrue. It would be foolhardy for lubricant manufacturers to build a product that is incompatible with seals. The composition of seals presents problems that both petroleum oils and synthetics must overcome. Made from elastomers, seals are inherently difficult to standardize.

Ultimately it is the additive mix in oil that counts. Additives to control seal swell, shrinkage and hardening are required, whether it be a synthetic or petroleum product that is being produced.

Myth #2: Synthetics are too thin to stay in the engine.

Untrue. In order for a lubricant to be classified in any SAE grade (10W-30, 10W-40, etc.) it has to meet certain guidelines with regard to viscosity ("thickness").

For example, it makes no difference whether it's 10W-40 petroleum or 10W-40 synthetic, at -25 degrees centigrade (-13F) and 100 degrees centigrade (212 degrees F) the oil has to maintain a standardized viscosity or it can't be rated a 10W-40.

Myth #3: Synthetics cause cars to use more oil.

Untrue. Synthetic motor oils are intended for use in mechanically sound engines, that is, engines that don't leak. In such engines, oil consumption will actually be reduced. First, because of the lower volatility of synlubes. Second, because of the better sealing characteristics between piston rings and cylinder walls. And finally, because of the superior oxidation stability (i.e. resistance of synthetics against reacting with oxygen at high temperatures.)

Myth #4: Synthetic lubricants are not compatible with petroleum.

Untrue. The synthesized hydrocarbons, polyalphaolefins, diesters and other materials that form the base stocks of high-quality name brand synthetics are fully compatible with petroleum oils. In the old days, some companies used untested ingredients that were not compatible, causing quality synlubes to suffer a bum rap. Fortunately, those days are long gone.

Compatibility is something to keep in mind, however, whether using petroleum oils or synthetics. It is usually best to use the same oil for topping off that you have been running in the engine. That is, it is preferable to not mix your oils, even if it is Valvoline or Quaker State you are using. The reason is this: the functions of additives blended for specific characteristics can be offset when oils with different additive packages are put together. For optimal performance, it is better to use the same oil throughout.

Myth #5: Synthetic lubricants are not readily available.

Untrue. This may have been the case two decades ago when AMSOIL and Mobil 1 were the only real choices, but today nearly every major oil company has added a synthetic product to their lines. This in itself is a testament to the value synthetics offer.

Myth #6: Synthetic lubricants produce sludge.

Untrue. In point of fact, synthetic motor oils are more sludge resistant than their petroleum counterparts, resisting the effects of high temperature and oxidation. In the presence of high temperatures, two things happen. First, an oil's lighter ingredients boil off, making the oil thicker. Second, many of the complex chemicals found naturally in petroleum basestocks begin to react with each other, forming sludges, gums and varnishes. One result is a loss of fluidity at low temperatures, slowing the timely flow of oil to the engine for vital component protection. Further negative effects of thickened oil include the restriction of oil flow into critical areas, greater wear and loss of fuel economy.

Because of their higher flash points, and their ability to withstand evaporation loss and oxidation, synthetics are much more resistant to sludge development.

Two other causes of sludge -- ingested dirt and water dilution -- can be a problem in any kind of oil, whether petroleum or synthetic. These are problems with the air filtration system and the cooling system respectively, not the oil.

Myth #7: Synthetics can't be used with catalytic converters or oxygen sensors.

Untrue. There is no difference between synthetic and petroleum oils in regards to these components. Both synthetic and petroleum motor oils are similar compounds and neither is damaging to catalytic converters or oxygen sensors.

Myth#8: Synthetics void warranties.

Untrue. No major manufacturer of automobiles specifically bans the use of synthetic lubricants. In point of fact, increasing numbers of high performance cars are arriving on showroom floors with synthetic motor oils as factory fill.

New vehicle warranties are based upon the use of oils meeting specific API Service Classifications (for example, SG/CE). Synthetic lubricants which meet current API Service requirements are perfectly suited for use in any vehicle without affecting the validity of the new car warranty. In point of fact, in the twenty-five years that AMSOIL Synthetic Lubricants have been used in extended service situations, over billions of miles of actual driving, these oils have not been faulted once for voiding an automaker's warranty.

Myth #9: Synthetics last forever.

Untrue. Although some experts feel that synthetic basestocks themselves can be used forever, it is well known that eventually the additives will falter and cause the oil to require changing. Moisture, fuel dilution and acids (the by-products of combustion) tend to use up additives in an oil, allowing degradation to occur.

However, by "topping off", additives can be replenished. Through good filtration and periodic oil analysis, synthetic engine oils protect an engine for lengths of time far beyond the capability of non-synthetics.

Myth #10: Synthetics are too expensive.

Untrue. Tests and experience have proven that synthetics can greatly extend drain intervals, provide better fuel economy, reduce engine wear and enable vehicles to operate with greater reliability. All these elements combine to make synthetic engine oils more economical than conventional non-synthetics.

In Europe, synthetics have enjoyed increasing acceptance as car buyers look first to performance and long term value rather than initial price. As more sophisticated technology places greater demands on today's motor oils, we will no doubt see an increasing re-evaluation of oil buying habits in this country as well.

CONCLUSIONS
Since their inception, manufacturers of synthetic motor oils have sought to educate the public about the facts regarding synthetics, and the need for consumers to make their lubrication purchasing decisions based on quality rather than price. As was the case with microwave ovens or electric lights, a highly technological improvement must often overcome a fair amount of public skepticism and consumer inertia before it is embraced by the general population.

But the word is getting out as a growing number of motorists worldwide experience the benefits of synthetic lubrication. The wave of the future, in auto lubes, is well under way.

Yea I have seen this e-book, it is really good! After reading the ad, I sprang for it. Once you buy it, the author - Michael Kaufman will send you the .pdf file of the book so you can copy and print it! tlk

I use Amsoil from bumper to bumper. Synthetics save you time and money :D

Each to his own... :roll: :wink:

Mercy! :shock: I know someone changing their SAE 15W-40 Synthetic www.amsoil.com/storefront/ame.aspx every 60,000 miles only if needed after testing. He uses a killer Harvard filter. www.harvardcorp.com
One could also use the Spinner II www.spinnerii.com and get the same if not better results.

I forgot to add. You might like this for dusty areas to help save on air filter costs.

http://www.gwdiesel.com/turbo.htm

I use synthetics in the tranny and the diffs, and dinosaurs in the engine.

I end up changing the oil in the engine before I add it.

I get the engine oil analyzed once a year.

This is all done in the shop and usually when I get the Commercial Vehicle Inspection.

Students grease the the truck, wash the truck, clean the windows, chain the truck in the winter.

I drink coffee and say "Right" & "left" & "that was a bad choice"...and if need be.....STOP!!!!!!

Tough job, but someone gots to do it.

The hardest part of my job is when you see grown men cry.