I guess UPS could try and bust the union, then pay drivers 10,12 ,13 dollars per hour. Pay dock workers less. Then the training costs/lower productivity losses associated with turnover would sky rocket because people would not want to work as hard as UPS drivers and dock people do for that kind of money. Not to mention the lousy benefits package they would supply without the union. Lets face it package delivery at UPS is'nt gravy. As far as the "right to work state" issue, certain people will always take advantage of what others have fought for.

If the union members stick together UPS will settle before the strike, UPS can't afford to watch their customers go to FEDEX like they did in 1997.

FEDEX could not handle the freight back then and closed their small facilities down at 10:00 am because there was no where to put the packages.

With some of the roll over drivers we have here and in this business truck driving is just another job, like working at McDonald's anymore.

I think the trucking companies have many of these newbies brainwashed for sure and the union has a lot of educating to do or you drivers and OO's are DOOMED to drive for peanuts and low rates !!!!

I think it would be in the best interest of OO's to honor a national truckers strike too, but many of them will sell out too !

Well.
I make a great deal more then pulling fuel then I did as a city driver with UPS Freight, and I can safely say that no illegal immigrant will take that job from me or any other fuel driver that carries hazmat and twic. The best part of our company is that we just had a four lay offs due to business levels slowing down, I am the last guy hired on but managed to keep my job as I have good work ethic and a great saftey record the guys that got laid off kept screwing up on the job. with the union it is purely senority which kind of sucks for the hard working bottom guy. Then you get to sit around and listen to the 18 year guy complain and whine and bitch and of course not work as hard because he has paid his dues.... My father taught me to work just as hard on my last day as I would on day one. My benifit package at UPS Freight before the union was just as good as the one the union brought in, in some ways it was better. Ups frieght employees got screwed by both the union and Brown with the contract ratification in 2007. for the record I am on track to make peanuts of $60,000 this year that is with every Sunday & Monday off, home every night, and a pretty decent benifit package that includes comapny match of my 401k, even UPS cut out the comany 401 match..
Times are tough and you can bet Brown has bean counter figuring cost and numbers for an up coming strike in 2013 they may just say enough is enough lets plan for 6 months to one year of minimal revenue, rebuild our employee team with no union and start fresh. So for that 1 year Fed Ex will kick ass and take all they can get UPS will suffer and slowly rebuild the union wont bankrupt them and they will come out on the other side, it is a possibility....

Timberwolf

LOL man, you are a real dreamer, UPS is a public company and is responsible to shareholders and large investors, if you think top management is that stupid to carry out a scenario as you discuss, you need to seek some non-union brain surgeons !!!!

Time will tell...
Never say never..
The times and the way business is conducted will change over the next 10 years people are getting tired of greed.
It may never happen that way you are right but the point is it may and it could...

Timberwolf

UPS should not be the target, FEDEX should be the target of the truckers national union because they are paying a lot less to many sub contractors acquired from their acquisition of RPS Package System.

What can I say? I've never worked for a union company. I can't see why I would want to. I'm about to leave a company that just voted to join the union, and all I can see is a $10/week pay cut for the privilege of belonging to the union. If I had my choice, I'd rather have cable.

Seriously, what purpose does a union serve besides feeding its own existence? Can anyone explain it in logical terms, minus any personal insults or attacks?

How does a union make UPS better than Fed Ex?

How would a union improve Fed Ex?

I have no desire to work for a union because those guys never seem to be happy. They always seem to think they're getting screwed by management or scabs.

I'm like DW, I just wanna race.

Well, this thread was supposed to be about how shady and dishonest Marten Transport has become since randy stepped down from the president's seat and sold off the bulk of his shares. They hired that jerk off from Knight Transportation (Tim Kohl) and everything went to ****. Now there's a knight driver on the forums saying that knight has come around and is a fairly decent place to work. Imagine that.

This entire thread went into a WILD tangent about unions and fuel prices.

Sorry...

When you become a moderator you tell members what to post then, until then......

Unions and fuel prices happen to be hot topics that need to be discussed. :pissedoff:

And why is being "Non-Union" so bad? You are here for the last few weeks, crowing about the union, spouting the same typical crap about a "National" strike, when "Union" or not, a national strike will never happen, nor would one work, the way the strikers would intend it too.

The great thing about America....we all have a choice. Some of us chose to not be associated with a union.

My younger brother has 20 years with the teamsters. They just aren't that good. He doesn't see any benefit from being with them, and he is number two in seniority at his job.

Your here ACE, spouting off....yet...Who do you drive for? What is your interest in "Unionizing" the industry? What exactly do YOU stand to gain?

Tell your brother to quit his union job and come to Southern Alabama to work for AAA Cooper then man !!! :rofl: :lol2:

PS: Unions benefit all workers, I was making $18.50 an hour as a dockman in 1977 for Roadway Express in Akron, Ohio.

PPS: Now I will be lucky to get $ 10.00 an hour at most jobs, get it through your head that people like you who will not stand up for your own profession are the cancer within.

:roll:

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah!!! Now we can all see the problem! Your in the south, stuck in a low wage job, because that is what those jobs pay, in the south! You have choices. Find a different company to drive for. There are plenty of them out there. If your a decent driver, finding one that pays well, should be easy.

If your stuck in a $10.00 an hour job, you most likely are only willing to drive local, or do "Out & Back" work. Big wages don't come with that type work....IN THE SOUTH. What is the matter? Are you having no luck at all, getting AAA Cooper drivers to "Unionize"??

I would suggest a "Union" job for you to apply for...but all the union jobs I know of....are going away. You could move down to south Florida..and haul gas. Or...for that matter...you could move to the Orlando area....and haul gas...like Timber Wolf. Move back to Indiana and haul gas...move to PA and haul gas.....move to Seattle...and pray! But...all those jobs would be non-union.

I worked for "Southern" wages for two years. I did my bit, to try and get the wages at "That" particular company, to rise to the level of work experience, that the company was requiring new drivers to have when they hired on.

Myself...to move away from the low wages....I bought a truck...and I make enough...even with the bad economy...that I am comfortable. If I have an issue...I take mangement to task...on that issue. I have done so, 3 times all ready this year. :angryblue: Oh...and I also work a lot less now, while making more.

NOW.......Stop blaming others for your problems...and do something to correct...YOUR PROBLEMS! :cool:

Something besides blaming others.

You should make more because there's alot more risks involved hauling fuel than there is hauling freight.

There was a fuel hauler who burned to death in this area 2 years back. I knew him because he fueld our trucks at night. Not a good way to go. He got rear ended while stopped in a construction zone by some over the road driver who fell asleep at the wheel.. He was trapped in his cab and they heard him screaming but they couldn't go near him because the flames were too hot. Sad thing is that the guy who hit him survived with only a broken collarbone.

Eh, hauling fuel isn't that much worse than any other haz load.
the thing is that, mostly, you tend to be more careful and minimize forseeability, and not take unnecessary risks. I'm sure there are non-fuel trucks that burn to death too.

My trainer told me how a fuel tanker had a tire fire, and only the #4 compartment burned, but the other 3 held. It can go both ways.

Last time I checked we're in (statistically) one of the most dangerous jobs out there.

"PS: Unions benefit all workers, I was making $18.50 an hour as a dockman in 1977 for Roadway Express in Akron, Ohio."

So what happened to that job? That's good money by today's standards.

Keep tellin yourself that.

Why would you need to be more careful if it's not that worse than hauling other haz loads?

I'm sure there are. But when you're hauling 9,000 gallons of unleaded gasoline behind you, you're gonna light up like a pinball machine and payout in silver dollars.

Got to side with "OrangeTX" on this one AVC.

Unions may be good for some and not for others.

And if life's so bad down south, then maybe it's time to pick up and relocate farther north
where just maybe you might find a pleasing union job.

Speaking for myself, a former Teamster member, They weren't worth the dues I paid into
them. I was OTR, then landed that great "union" position in the foodservice industry.
No, I wasn't high on the seniority list, but I wasn't on the bottom either, but still got let
go when the company consolidated with another of our facilities in town and we closed
our doors.

More could be said but that would drag this way out.

The fact that he has been with the same carrier for 20 years is a tribute to the teamsters. Maybe he forgot or never knew what most non union carriers are like. If he leaves his current job he will find out in a hurry. How many drivers stay for 20 years at a non union carrier? NOT MANY.

The fact that he has been with the same carrier/teamsters for 20 years is a tribute to the teamsters. Maybe he forgot or never knew what most non union carriers are like. If he leaves his current job he will find out in a hurry. How many drivers stay for 20 years at a non union carrier? NOT MANY. Why is he still with the teamsters? Caveman says "union bad, job hopping good."

Somebody's gotta do it. I see lots of people hauling fuel. What's their secret? It's not for everyone, but it certainly interests me.

you'd need to be more careful because it's liquid, same as if you're pulling milk. except, milk is unbaffled, so that'll move around quite a bit more. And you also have to use common sense, don't smoke, avoid sparks, don't spill nothing, and check, double check, and triple check everything. They teach us how to be safe legal and responsible, and following procedures, rules and regulations simplifies the task of hauling fuel.

besides, if anything happens, i probably won't even know it :/

seems like being a teamster encourages someone to stay in the same place and never try anything new. The guaranteed pension seems to be becoming a bit of a mirage, and I'm starting to feel better about the idea that I'm not putting all my eggs in that basket. Imagine working at the same place for 20-40 years, then after you retire, your pension falls apart because the company went tits up. That's gotta have an effect on somebody.

Those pensions are guaranteed if you are vested. The company may fold but your pension will still be there. The govt. took care of that potential problem years ago. Wages have been going down for 20 years in the trades and people have the mind that says "oh well". Drivers work 70-80 hrs/week for 60k and think they are doing well. Meanwhile our elected officials (congress, senate) vote for their own pay raises, have the best health care for free, and have pensions that pay over 100k. All provided by the taxpayer ! All because they are doing such a great job for the American people.

pensions.....
 

My pension check is distributed monthly from the Western Conference of Teamsters Pension Fund..Fortunately, it is still fairly well funded. However, we do not have "lifetime" health-care, which is why I still work part-time. The Central States Pension Fund is another story completely though..Basically UPS bought it's way out of contributing to that fund during their last contract negotiations. The Teamsters sold out their own members....After 32 years@UPS, did I bitch and complain as some poster has said ? No, I always was grateful for the job and the opportunities it gave my family to live a middle class life-style.

Anytime you talk about unions its always a heated debate. Thats why I dont put much effort into it anymore. Greed is the root of all evil. Corporate greed creates the need for a union in the first place then union greed kills the company. When either one gets out of whack thats when you have problems. In my opinion, based on what I read here, many of you have crappy jobs that I personally would not do. Ironically those jobs need union support more than any but will never get it. My job is union but was a good job even without the union (before UPS bought us). I only go to work to pay my bills and I expect to be compensated as much as realistically possible. When I look for a job I look for high pay and I really dont care if it is union or not. Timberwolf bashes the union but I remember when he praised the union and UPS. Bottom line is he didnt have any seniority and it didnt work out for him. I had the same problem a few years back with Yellow. Its got nothing to do with the union. I'm glad he found a fuel job he likes, I would have done the same thing. With some bumps along the way I do pretty well here at big brown. I work around 45 hrs a week Mon-Fri and gross around $1300 a week. I dont think I can beat that but if I could you can bet your ass I'd be looking into it, union or no union. I'm glad I have a pension and its a good one but I dont take any chances. I have been saving my whole life. I have IRA's, 401k's, and rental property. With my pension, SSI, and investments I should retire comfortably. If I dont get one or the other I'll be OK. If I dont get any of it were all fu**ed anyway! Bottom line is find a job that suits you and dont knock another man's means of supporting himself and his family. You never know what your next job might be. I'll bet most most of you union haters would be the biggest braggers if you ever actually got one of those jobs just like Timberwolf use to be.

These anti-union drivers are a major cancer on the trade, 10 years from now they will all say, WOW MAN, LOOK AT THAT LITTLE MEXICAN KID WHO TOOK MY JOB !!!!

The other day I saw a little black girl driving a rig, so you guys got it coming from all directions to keep your wages as low as possible.

There are no great positions in the food service industry union or non.
That's just **** work no matter how you slice it.

AVC you seem like ones of those my way or the highway kind of guys, That must really suck being so narrow minded, oh well must be one of those southern traditions. In my tripping days I can remember a poster I had on my wall that said Mind like parachute functions only when open... Look into it maybe you wont be so angry against the world and the hand you have been dealt. Maybe your outlook on life is the reason you been dealt this hand...

Snowman you are right I was very pro Union in the beginning I thought that UPS was going to be my last job, but being on the bottom and dealing with guys who dont have the same work ethic as you do, but carry more senority truly sucks. Like I said I am the bottom guy here hauling fuel but managed to hang on when 4 others where laid off, All because I work hard and care about my job, I did the same at UPS even when I got bumped to the dock I put forth 100% every day I worked, If I was still working there I would still be on the dock a year later with no driving route in site for at least another year or so. I wanted to work smarter not harder.
It is what it is and I am so much more happier pulling fuel plus NO ILLEGALS will ever take my job or lower my pay scale sorry to disapoint you avc but my job is safe from low wages, and hard working Mexicans who want to improve their lifestyle in the land of the free.
By the way AVc just who do you work for.

Timberwolf

He(my brother) is in the teamsters, because the company drivers, where he works, unionized in the 40's, and the driver's have never voted to de-unionize. They could have, in 1985, when the terminals in Seattle / Portland, where I used to work, the drivers voted to de-unionize, that company (where my brother works) could have done the same thing. Even when that company was down to one single driver, that driver was still in the union.

Your never going to convince me that "Unionization" is a good thing. So way try?

AVC has a problem (low wages) at AAACooper, there in southern Alabama. He has been here, in various threads, crying "UNIONIZE" and "NATIONAL TRUCKER'S STRIKE" for the last few weeks, because he obviously is getting nowhere fast, with his fellow driver's, in his "Unionization Quest".

If he is that miserable at his job, he needs to do what tens of thousands of others have done.....FIND A NEW ONE! There are union jobs out there. There are union jobs, in southern Alabama. All he needs to do is quit his crying, and go look. NorthropGrumman in Pascagoula pay's quite a bit more that $10.00 and they have billboards up and down I-10 and I-65, advertising their jobs.

He isn't willing to do that. :roll:

He claims to have been a union dock worker back in the 70's. If that is so....why did he leave that job? Because it left him?? Why didn't he use his union time, to get in somewhere similar? That was what was normally done....back then.

I don't have one single thing, against anyone whom is in a union. If it works for them...awesome deal. Just don't try shoving it down my throat. I still have my own teeth....AND I BITE! :o

Tombestone, I was being a bit sarcastic with that statement.

TimberWolf, you got this one right on. "dealing with guys who dont have the same work ethic as you do, but carry more senority truly sucks."

The garbage that some folks get away with because of the union protecting them is downright nonsense.
My 1st week on the job started on a Thursday and a full 60 hrs. That Friday a senior driver, on a route that ran him just far enough out of the city and afraid he might run out of hrs for the day, refused to finish his deliveries for fear he may have to pull a hotel room for the night and finish up Saturday, and he'd promised his kid he would be home for a ballgame. That driver returned to the warehouse with 4 stops still on the trailer. Because I was in the office the supervisor asked if I could come in and run the 4 stops on Saturday, I did. Monday morning the shop steward is pulling me in and telling the supervisor and I that a grivance has been filed by another driver because he wasn't offered the hrs first, and now he wants the same pay I received for that run, the union got him the unearned wages which is garbage in my book, and then the union backed the other driver who refused to make those deliveries, more garbage.

Personally I never saw so many individuals unworthly of their wages and jobs as I did while working in the foodservice industry. Rightfully they should have been shown the door, but hiding behind all the petty union rules protected them.

I do know how you feel. I thought Yellow would be my last job. pfffft! Then I thought Conway would be my last job, they are non union but they still honor seniority. Now I just enjoy my job at UPS Freight while it lasts. So far so good! If I make it thru this freaking economy I should be home free!


You know I always kinda disregard this statement because I dont see it happening. But then I'm a road driver and we are paid mileage so most guys are good runners. However I'm sure it goes on in the city and on the dock, I'm just not in that clique.

Old Salt, I left the food service industry to drive, just to get away from ppl who are afraid of work.
25 years in the kitchen of many hotels and restaurants/private clubs.
It is kind of like the old saying if you want the job done right "do it yourself" so I beame a driver and I am able to leave my job at the yard when I go home every night. Unlike being a Chef/F&B Director...


Timberwolf

Like I said, you non-union drivers are at the bottom of the industry and always will be right there, trucking companies are right now training little black girls and are recruiting Mexicans to take your jobs.

You guys will not even stand up for your own profession or yourselves, face it, the non-union crowd in this business are born losers and don't want to ever win.

Hey AVC, you seem to be the stereo typical southern racist, tell me is you're trailer at the end of the park next to the woods for easy access to the outhouse.. "Little Black Girls"... people like you really make thank my parents for giving me some sort of grounding when I was younger.
Sounds like a little black girl took you're big bad job from you because she is better at it then you are.. A little angry are we, again AVC just calm down and take you're medicine and hopefully you will be ok in an hour or so. The only reason you dream of a union juob is so that you can be your stereotypical southern self and be lazy.... All the Mexicans that have worked for me in the past could put you to shame in work ethic but you are to lazy to even see that, it is always someone else fault... Look in the mirror AVC....

It must suck going through life with such hate and anger....

Timberwolf

You are starting to cross a line that had best NOT be crossed again. Feel free to debate union vs. non-union all you want, but leave race out of it. I'm not referring to the reference about Mexicans, as that is a legitimate topic. Not once have I seen or heard of any effort by the industry or government to recruit or hire any other specific group.

I felt no need to edit or delete this post, as it can serve a a warning to all, that this type of post will NOT be tolerated in any way, shape or form. It will get the offender a quick trip to the door.


nuff said,


Ridge

That's YOUR opinion.

Hmmmmmmmmmmm. Does this mean that the "Runner of Ridges" is back to being a Moderator??? :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

OK Ridge, I did not mean it as a racist statement, but I understand how some readers will take it as that, so I get where you are coming from, it was simply a statement of fact and what I saw the other day, I'm sorry this was blown out of proportion and used as a debating tactic by Timberwolf.

If I say that companies are training young girls out of high school is that sexist then ?

You guys do realize that trucking companies have to meet quotas like any other employer and these under employed folks in these categories have an advantage over white guys.

Loooky looky, its another We gotta stick together and strike thread! Haven't seen one of these in a few days lol.
We have time for strikes, always have and always will, no matter what the freight looks like. But it won't happen, and you know why? Truckers for all the big bad men were supposed to be are to afraid. Man you gotta take risks and sacrifice things if you want it better. Whining and crying on an internet isn't gonna help man. Getting out there having your voice heard

I was talking to an OO the other day who runs 5 rigs for 30 years or so, he said that JB Hunt and Werner will low ball rates forever.

They only care about making $50.00 per truck per day and as long as the company can do that they can stay in business, so as long as customers support this sort of low ball contractors truckers will be slaves of these morons.

and how did this guy get this information? did the execs at the companies call him and tell him?