Idiling
 

At present fuel costs are the #1 problem that all companies and O/O's are really fighting. And yes for idiling the APU solution is probably the better direction to go. But many O/O can not afford & many companies are not installing.

This is a general inquiry for the Company Drivers. I have heard about one major company that is having their company drivers sign a letter that if their idiling goes above 25% in winter and 30% in summer ( Based on truck miles driven) they will be charged for the fuel use above those percetages , by the month, and it will be taken out of their pay. This company does not have APU's instaled on their Company driver vehicles.

So 10 hour rest times and 34 hour resets are going to be a resky item to c/w with out sweating or freezing, thus resting will be intolerable sometimes and the driver will not be as safe as he/she should be due to lack of comftorable rest. In the summer trying to sleep when your cab is at the 100 F or in the winter your cab is at the other extreme is not the logical way to force your drivers to live. Again, no rest = unsafe driver.
Are the A/C set at 80+ at the company office and the Heat set at 55 or lower? NO

My inquiry is:

1) General comments on the above.

2) Are any other companies doing similar items to their company drivers?

Regards.
Mr C

Im hearing alot of what you are saying from other drivers, whether out here on the road or on these forums. Idling is becoming a big problem for the companies considering fuel costs only. (other that state regs). When the truck runs out of route or is idling the company is not recovering any fuel surcharge for that fuel used, and it is becoming a bigger expense as the fuel cost rise, to idle the trucks
Why companies are not taking greater measures to assist in the drivers needs is really beyond me. Although I dont know if APUs are the real answer they certainly can help greatly.
The higher the fuel costs the cheaper the APU really is. when look at it from a return in the initial investment. Companies should be doing what they can to purchase and have installed, by the manufacture, the APUs while the fuel costs are high. I also have to assume the "bulk" purchasing of the APU and having the manufacturer install the unit will bring the cost of the APU down from its actual retail cost.
I did some "mental" math using simple numbers. Assuming continuous idling at peak seasons. 10hrs idling at $5.00 per gallon at about 1gal per hour is costing about $50 a day for idling during each of break. Keep in mind this doesnt account for any additional idling you may do waiting at shippers and receivers.
With an APU. Assuming about 1/10-2/10 of a gallon per hour. You burn 1-2 gallons per 10hrs break, and thats probably at continuous running of the generator. The generator only kicks on when needed for cooling. So at most somewhere between maybe $5+ per 10 hrs break in fuel used.
Just using "trucker" math I can see an APU paying for itself in 6-7 months depending on the usage of the truck and APU.

I drive for Werner. Most drivers have probably noticed that Werner is converting their fleet to APUs. I had my APU installed just about 1month ago. My idling went from about 30% to practically 0...mmediately. My trucks fuel economy shot up to between 6.5 to 7.4 mpg. Depending on the load and terrain Im driving on. I drive a Classic XL. Prior to the APU the fuel economy was averaging in the low 5s, and mid 4s in the winter.

To help with your questions....Not all Werner trucks are equipped with APUs. Werners policy regarding idling non APU trucks is idle the truck when necessary. Specifically when trying to rest you may idle to stay warm or cool as appropriate. Otherwise minimize the idling as much as possible. They have stated (on qualcom) that high idling will be dealt with. I presume to mean they will be keeping an eye on those high idle trucks and determine based on mileage the driver has vice wait time what is really necessary and what is not.

We were asked to shut trucks off when they were going to idle for more then five minutes. Other then that we are asked to just use common sense. They want us well rested and they realize you can't do that if you are sweating all night or freezing.

so which company is mailing out the-- "we gonna charge the driver- the extra fuel" letters-- so I can avoid them. Or if it's Heartland-- I'll know to no be carrying a large balance on my credit card( I'll need room for another rental car+ taxi).

Re: Idiling
 

Surprise!! Doesn't Covenant already have a similar "driver friendly" program? :evil: They're soooooo Christian.:evil:

Just when you think that they couldn't possibly stoop any lower. What other industry operates like this?

These acts of desperation by these companies are becoming more reckless daily. I just wonder how long it will be until these companies are held accountable for the consequences of these draconian policies.

Gainey Transportation Servicesseems to have cornered the market on an innovative, driver friendly solution. As told (again :wink: ) by our own Big Jeep on 44's;

i just put out my resume this home time ,because in addition to low miles and only .33 cpm Gainey can't even offer their divers the ability to keep the truck cool when on break,as they only give 30% idle time ,which is only 3.5 hours a day on top of 50 moving hours which could be 2500-3000 miles...heck they sat me in Dallas Tx for 2 days of 100 degree weather ,and they expect no idilng ,and don't do buiness with ide aire b/c they are both chapter 11...they offer no alteratives to get a/c in the summer and heat in the winter without idiling the truck ...they wrote me up for idiling 8hrs day while sleeping because it's more than 3.5hrs allowed ...in order to not get wrote up again i paid $140.00 for 2 days in a motel ,and then i get qualcomm message stating goo job your idle is down ...no sh!t sherlock !...that's because i wasn't in te truck the 2 100 degree days t sat in Dallas...I can't wait to get away...I'm even looking at Werner again b/c atleast they respected the driver enough to give them a/c in the summer,and heat in the winter...and not just while driving..

Oh, brother Jeep, the bankruptcy of Idle Aire has nothing to do with it. We know the real reason.:twisted: Sorry that you're living this hell my friend.

I am sorry....anybody who signs such BS gets everything they deserve. Its one thing if you drive out of route and they want to charge you for the extra miles. Its another thing when I need a 10h break. Like drew10 said.......a 10h break costs $50. How about a 34h restart??? The big companies could for sure get some good deals on some hotels which are getting cheaper then the idling these days. When the fuel surcharge dont cover the breaks the truckers take....then the fuel surcharge is too low. Since the 10h breaks are required by law these expenses should be INCLUDED in the daily cost of business and added to the CUSTOMER.

Idiling
 

As a new driver-I was just wondering - is it just my company(GTI) that has its trucks set so they will shut down after 5 minutes of idiling? Or are all freigtliner columbias like that from the factory. You have to engage the cruise control to rev the rpms up above normal idle for it to keep running if you want to stay cool.

Re: Idiling
 

It's a Freightliner thing, there was a Freightliner Columbia fuel tanker that was idling and shut off after 5 minutes. I do know the WIA model Volvos (97-98 models I think had them) shut down after 5 minutes if you don't have it on high idle.

Trucking companies have been using their drivers for years to finance their business-- in so many ways-- this is just 1 more. Most companies don't want you to even take a 34hr reset-- they want you available each and every day-- with just the hours you are picking up(from the old ways- before the 34hr restart existed)--- If you do restart-- then they don't to cover the fuel bill. Yes, I agree completely-- anyone who signs such a paper- should be running away from that company a.s.a.p. ( but, unfortunately- you've got to put yourself in that driver's position-- He's just quite a job- had a long bus ride to company X- the recruiter never said anything about such a form-- now he either signs it-- or catches another bus.)

The math just isn't going to work out for the driver- 24 hours in a day-- you can only drive 11 in a 14hour period-- that's only 45.8%-- the other none rolling time = 54.2% of which that 10hour break if idled continously will result in a 41.6% idle time.

APU's if your company doesn't have them on or planning on installing them-- they are either PLANNING ON going under-- or planning to stick it to the drivers.


Or perhaps, it's time to re- visit the old bunk house days of trucking.

Do away with the sleepers altogether-- saves money on cost of truck.
There's no more sleeper birth split anymore- so having one is of NO advantage to a company.

These big companies could buy some run-down Motel along the big road-- every 500 miles or so-- fix them up--- or more likely- Not fix them up--- gravel the vacant lot next door-- and presto--- Bunk house/ relay yard.

headborg wrote:
Nope its not going to work out for the driver. Even with ideal dispatches and assuming continuous idle during your 10hr break, and assuming you drive 11hrs...thats just under 50%. More often than not an average day will not be 11hrs...but the 10hr break still exists. This will increase the % even greater.

I agree with you here headborg. If they cannot afford to put the APUs on and wait for the return in investment, then that company is hanging by a thread.

Good point Mr C! Headborg to sum it all up below:

Bingo! Headborg is right on the money again. That is the direction that the industry is heading. Sooner rather than later.......................

Interesting how some of these cut-rate outfits have suddenly discovered the necessary capital to outfit entire fleets with APUs :?: Hmmmm..............

We had a couple drivers quit this past week over the idling time issue. I walked into dispatch just as the argument was getting heated between 2 drivers and one of our owners.

Basically the owner said that both of their idle time was too high (one was 52%, the other 54.5%) and they needed to shut down their trucks more. Both drivers had just come out of El Paso. Long story short, we now have 2 empty trucks in the yard and have lost 2 drivers who've been with the company 10+ years each.

Myself - if it's not too hot, I shut down. However, if I'm supposed to be getting some sleep and it's hot, the truck is running.

Re: Idiling
 

the idle shut down can be disabled through the computer IF the buyer wants it.

my boss doesnt plan on getting apu's Or making a no-idling policy OR going under, he simply asks us to use common sense. he will pay for a motel if you get stuck out because it's usually cheaper than idling, bt he knows if you sleep in the truck, it' gonna be running, what he does is makes sure he gets a good enough freight rate to cover it..

Re: Idiling
 

It isn't just a Freightliner thing. Idle timers can be turned on or off or adjusted at a dealership or in the shop. I had Petes and Macks as well as the Freightliner I drive now, and they all had an idle timers on them. I think you can adjust the length of time before shutdown in five minute increments.

I don't mind the auto shutdown timers, just as long as the driver can override them when necessary.

I've had the autoshutdown on KW's, International's, Volvo's and Freightliners. It takes all of about 5 minutes for the shop to disable/change the setting in the trucks computer.

there's another -- be it more radical solution--

it involves the drivers & companies-- getting 'on the same page' together.


Tie the safety/risk management director to a chair and stick his butt in a closet--- go back to a 'comic book' is just a 'comic book'---- run 'outlaw' operations--- and keep those wheels turning---- this is another big problem the industry is facing. The satellite & the safety department/log department has all the drivers scared senseless--- most drivers want to shut down and take their legal/required 10hr break at night--- they are have been gradually -because of parking shortage--- arriving at the T/S earlier and earlier trying to secure parking before sunset.----- Then, instead of getting up earlier---and starting their next 14 hour shif at 2 am etct--- those 10 hr breaks are being stretched longer and longer.

Given the current price of fuel--- companies need to keep the wheels rolling--- even O/O are finding that it's better business to take a lower paying freight rate that will break even-- relocate to better paying freight area-- than setting idle waiting for a better paying load.

Exactly HB. Which ties in perfectly to your earlier insightful post about getting rid of sleepers. Feeder networks, while not a cure-all, are a viable and effective alternative to the above described. The entire situation/crisis is quickly snowballing into a complete industry overhaul. Short to medium haul feeder systems. Long haul on an as-needed basis as a specialty probably to return to the independents/OOs.

It is certainly a rough shake-up. Yet one that I predict will benefit all of us drivers.

Don't O/Os talk about how good a rise in fuel costs is for the bottom line due to a higher fuel surcharge?

Do companies not get this fuel surcharge?

:?: :?: :?: :?:

Bingo .....

We (as drivers) are left with no choice....

They make the slightest change in policy and it fans out like a ripple

in the water...... some of my 10's are now 14's and more :lol:

Okay. Never mind the O/Os then. If the companies get the fuel surcharge to compensate for higher fuel cost, then what are they doing wrong? This surcharge should keep them afloat.

How am I wrong?

the guys who say the higher fuel goes, the more they profit are full of crap. the only way that would be true if is the fuel surcharge was way more than the extra fuel cost, so like you said, the surcharge should keep them afloat, but it's not going to make them rich like a few on here have claimed. if you have a truck that gets really good mileage, you may come out a little ahead on the surcharge.

I may have not phrased my questions correctly. I'm not concerned about the O/O's other than to refer to them and how a fuel surcharge can keep them from going under.

Why can't a company operate under the same plan; collecting a surcharge to keep from operating in the red?

I've wondered the same thing, perhaps when the mega carriers made the deals to buy fuel at a certain price for the next few years, they didnt think it would go this high and cant get enough surcharge?
the company I work for is relatively small and they are doing okay, the surcharge isnt increasing profits, but it is keeping us alive..
a lot of it comes down to good business sense, the owner of the company I work for comes in every day except Sunday and works 5 am to 7 pm, he does all the load booking, does all the dispatching and knows where every penny goes. I used to think he was foolish for working so hard and not taking it easy and enjoying his money, but now I think he is pretty smart.

Fredog, the higher fuel goes the more I make. Crap? To a company driver it would appear so.

And to the OP in the first post-

I don't know one owner operator that CAN'T afford one. Thermo King was gonna finance one for me for less than 300/mo. 10 hrs idling is about 60 bones, or 5 nights out of a month. Of course, I wrote a check for 8500 and was done with the deal because I roll like that 8)

so if fuel goes to a hundred dollars a gallon, you will be a millionaire?

Of course not, but I won't be out of business.

BanditsCousin wrote:
and...you will probably see a return on the investment in less than a year. Depending on the frequency of your time spent in the sleeper.

Thermo King's website said 11 months :lol:

I have a tendency to spend quite a bit of time in the sleeper when I'm at the tradeshows. 12 hrs isn't unheard of. After doing that in Vegas (idling)for a few months I took the hit and got one. Prior to the APU, I had an Espar heater for heat, so I was partly there.

bc...as in my previous post, on this tread. My company put the Thermo King Tripac on my truck about a month ago. Even has the 1800w inverter under the bunk. A/C works great inverter works great.
As an O/O you should be lovin it.

My company spent millons of dollors to equip every one of thier tractors with apus. Last count was 1600 tractors. Both TK and Carriers. And they are already started to recoup the costs.
They saw this fuel issuse getting bad over a year ago, when they started pulling drivers into Mondovi, Or St. Paul to have them installed.
In the two differant trucks ive had with apus( got assinged anew truck in March) my ilde time is down to .84. :) Before i had an apu, i was in the mid 80's %
Love that apu, and love the 1,800 watt factory installed inverter even more.
IT just blows my mind, that my company, a mid sized carrier, could spend the money, and do this, but from reading all these post, the super carriers, Engalnd,Swift, Schinder, JB have yet to add apus, then turn around and yell at thier drivers for idling so long. Well gee use the brains God gave you Mister CEO. doh!

Ideling Inquirey Thank you
 

I want to thank All that responded to my message. Alot of Good, Bad & Ugly came back. But some good sharing and eye openers from several angles. I do believe after reading all responses the final jest on this one is:

1) All need to beable to idle to stay comftorable & safe.
2) The companies should want to have & keep their drivers comftorable & safe.
3) The companis should ( for Company Drivers) bare the fuel costs or do some major equipment corrections.
4) Drivers do need to help monitor their Idle times when practical to help lower costs, but not when sleeping.
4) An APU does save ALL and is the way to go to lower Ideling costs for ALL. Company's and O/O.
5) Companies need to stop scare tactics and move forward with positive corrections to the situation that will be a win - win for ALL.
6) APU show an immediate lower of Ideling times & Costs.

Lets HOPE, that the companys ( Large or Small) that are having the issues of fuel costs & ideling take a closer look at the positive savings that APU installations will do and the quick pay back on this investment they will benefit from. Only time will tell.

Again Thanks to ALL.

Mr C

I have seen some high idle times but dang it man, plz tell me how you were averaging in the mid 80's on your percentage, thats almost like never even driving and just parking the truck and living in it.

I have seen some high idle times but dang it man, plz tell me how you were averaging in the mid 80's on your percentage, thats almost like never even driving and just parking the truck and living in it.[/quote]


well in the summers for most part i was kept in the south where its humid and hot. In the winters, Nothing but I-80. Of coures i'm going to stay comfortable. And when your shut down do to closed road for day(s) at a time, i'm not about to freeze for the company's fuel savings.
Yes i was asked by the office why my ilde time was so high, i said , well why don't you look where you have been keeping me.
Two things changed real fast. Started to go to all diff parts of the country year round. And then i was sent to Carrier in St. Paul for instaliation of my first apu.
Since then idle time has dropped almost to nothing.

The job of a CEO isn't to make the employees happy, it's to make the shareholders happy. If the drivers idle less, the company as a whole saves money. With some of the larger companies (Swift, CRE, Werner) saving as little as 1 gallon of fuel per day over a fleet of 500 trucks would save the company almost $750,000 per year in fuel costs.

Math for my fictional scenario:
500 trucks
1 gallon per day saved
330 days in the truck (35 days off per year)
$4.50 per gallon

Take that same scenario an apply it to a company like Swift who has 16,000+ trucks or Werner with roughly 9,000 trucks.

Swift would save $23,760,000 in fuel, and Werner would save $13,365,000. Swift is privately owned now, but Werner would be saving just over 13 million dollars...that makes the shareholders very happy because that's a decent ROI (return on investment). Not only that, but every executive, junior executive, and mid level manager would get a nice fat bonus at the end of the year.

The more they can screw the drivers, the shop employees, and all the other peons, the better. It's more money in their pocket - as far as they're concerned, if it's hot you can just roll down the windows and turn their truck off so they can buy another new BMW 7 series this year. After all, the one they drive now is almost a year old - egad!

If they can'nt afford to keep you cool or warm, 40% of the day or nite.. Run!! Do they sweat or freeze? Would the labor board be in that office if it was 90 degrees? Would they work in those conditions? Did they get rid of their SUVS and buy mini coppers? Did they turn down their speed driving home? :)

attn: skier.....
 

just an FYI for you, Marten, though I do like the company, they did not open their pockets for millions of dollars......
they got a grant from the state of Wisconsin to put the APUs on their trucks as part of a nationwide study.

Oh man I got a good one for that. My office shutdown last week because the AC broke. They set a limit, once it got to 90 degrees inside they all went home. Instead of opening the windows since a nice little breeze was blowing, they kept everything shut tight. So the answer to your question is no they won't work in those conditions at least for my company.

Re: attn: skier.....
 

go here
http://marten.com/images/Transporter/2007_06_June.pdf
to read the June 06 company newsltter, type in news when prompted.
Yes the state did give them a grant. But it was only a millon dollors, so Marten could install a few on tractors, and see the benifit of having apus placed on all trucks