Carlo,

dude, I've been reading your posts a long time and I will respond to your last post in detail when I get to the Petro in New Paris, OH to take my 10.

:mrgreen: Ooops! :lol:

:moose: Dadgummit, I want a moo cow!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...971/MooCow.jpg

Yeah!!! But wait, there's more...

"The Moo Committee"
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...oCommittee.jpg

Re: ROTFLMAO!!!
 

There are so many falsehoods and misconceptions here where do I start?

I don't know what the kool-aid comment is about but whatever, sounds like you've been hanging out with vassago :roll: He's referred to crete as a "coolie-carrier":cry:

As a company driver at Crete (I can't speak of Shaffer, I don't care for reefer, or weed :lol: ) There is absolutely no reason you shouldn't be able to pull down 2800-3200 per week. If you want to try to convince somebody on here that an evil dispatcher "pegged" you and gave you all crappy loads, well that simply wont fly with me. As a company driver I took whatever load was offered and was very proactive with making T-calls (relays). I also don't spend alot of time in truckstops. With the miles you put down at Aartman I'm not saying you do either. But 9,300 miles a month is ridiculously low. That's my monthly average as an O/O by choice because I take 1 week off every month because I can do that, I'm not married to the truck.

Looking in my logbook, the last time I was in the NE was Feb 28, 07 Dayton, NJ. I had heard the same thing before I came here and it's simply untrue. But I guess it's a matter of preference. If I stay east of I35 I always get better miles it seems. Plus alot of guys hate new england, I'll take those trips because there's alot of customers there. I've made alot of money in the NE. It sounds like you got alot of trips to CA... I'll pass on those, thank you.

Yeah a Columbia is much better then a Century :roll: does it really matter to a company driver what kind of truck you're in? I cared more about dependability rather then having a k-whopper or pete. I actually miss my FL Century.

Are these really valid reasons not to drive for a good company? Or trivial inconveniences? Sounds like you're grasping for straws here.

Outdated info. Acklie got rid of the bonuses and gave a 3 CPM raise across the board.

This was the main appeal with food-grade tankers for me. But one must remember that if you pull a reefer you're going to deal with grocery warehouses much more so then with a dry box. Add to that almost no drop 'n hooks and trailer washouts. The way the new HOS is setup all these things hurt your paycheck.

:lol:

A common misconception of driving for a big company is that "you're just a number" :roll: are you a driver to make friends with those in the office or to make money :?:

Let me fill you in on something else, bigger company = bigger freightbase = more miles

You know what else sucks about driving for that small company? Piss one person off in that office and everybody knows. I don't have an assigned dispatcher and I'm cool with that because I'm consistently keeping busy.

Bottom line is Carlo, I'm not convinced that tankers are all that great. (I don't care what skywalker says) I highly doubt that I could get to go as many places as I can on the national board with Crete, variety in other words. Also I'd have to take a 12 CPM paycut, and I'm all about working smarter, not harder. Why don't you crunch some numbers to figure out how much harder one would have to work to make that up?

You know, you worked for Shaffer back in 2001-2003. Is it not possible that you made some mistakes as a newer driver. It's alot harder for a man to admit ones mistakes rather then try to shift the blame elsewhere. I made quite a few mistakes my first year, how about you?

So in closing... Yes you're entitled to your opinion, I have the unpopular opinion that Roehl Transport sucks, and I stand by it because I drove for them. Nothing anyone can say would change my opinion. And I doubt that I nor anyone else can change your opinion.

:arrow: But hey, what do I know, I'm a businessman disguised as a truck driver.

Nope, simple points of fact from when I worked there.

Well then maybe Crete just has all the great miles then. Nope, I didn't have any evil dispatchers. I went where I could with the loads offered to me. I agree, with the freight base Acklie has (especially with the merger of Shaffer and Sunflower when I was there) there's no reason why you shouldn't get good miles. However, that's simply not the case.

What's the turnover there? We all know that Crete and Shaffer are not training companies, so what's the turnover there from unhappy drivers who don't get all that great treatment? I can tell you that Aartman's turnover stems primarily from newly hired drivers in their first few weeks, and it's not over a lack of money! It's because drivers get hit with all the things I speak of in my tanker thread. A hard surge slam alone washes many drivers out due to fear. The others just can't adapt to having to run 650-700 miles daily. It's a whole new ballgame when the stuff behind you is always in motion.

And if you think that Crete/Shaffer dispatch doesn't have their "pets" over there, well 8)... You cannot tell me or expect me or anyone else on these forums to believe that operations there doesn't set aside certain load selects for certain drivers. At Aartman, dispatch simply does not have the time for silly games. The loads have got to be picked up and delivered asap, so even if you're deadheading 1,000 plus miles you're moving. It doesn't matter if you're the greatest driver there or the biggest azzhole.

I'm not married to the truck either. Once again, see my figures at Aartman and I averaged about 8 days off a month. I did it because I could as well, but more importantly, I did it because I knew that before taking time off I was going to have the all miles I needed equaling a happy paycheck. I can afford the time off very easily.

Like I said and you just validated it, lots of Northeast freight, but moreso over at Shaffer...

As I hope you would as an O/O over there with their pay package. Running for Aartman out of the CA board guarantees going to/from California almost every trip (with the exception of when it was time for me to go home in FL), so if you don't like going out there as a company driver, then it's a good thing you didn't come over there.

To me it does. If you take the time to actually compare the differences between the trucks and have the option of getting into what you like and what fits you better then why not? Besides, there's a significant difference in quality and workmanship between Paccar products and Freightliner. But if you've never been in one and have been stuck in Freightliners your whole time driving, well, sucks to be you.

Really? I prefer being able to fuel when I need it without having to ask permission to deviate from a suggestion. I also enjoy being able to run the speed limit. You ever remember reading anything about how I enjoy going to the gym every 3 or 4 days or to stop along the way and sightsee? Every few minutes saved here and there by being able to cover more distance in less time allows more free time for me to do what I want versus being stuck in the driver's seat longer, especially out west. And corcerning the opti idle. Well, worked great in the winter but, it doesn't work to keep the truck cool in the summer. I like being comfortable when I'm parked for the day/night.

Yep, they sure did. Actually I forgot about that since they did it when my uncle was still there as well. But, if you're not getting the miles, the raise is nothing more than lip service.

Nonetheless you still deal with grocery houses, distribution centers, etc. even with a dry van, and last time I checked no dry van company has 100% drop and hook, meaning live loading/unloading. BTW, Shaffer had a high percentage of D&H.

Boy if that wasn't a cop out answer. I guess there's something wrong with making good money and being friends with your employer. But if you enjoy being a money making number then by all means go right on ahead.

Then every Swift, Schneider, and Werner driver would be averaging over 3,000 miles a week. Bigger company (more drivers). Bigger freightbase (necessary for all those drivers to work). More miles (must be divided as equally as possible between all of those drivers).

I see you failed to say anything concerning the stability and consistency of the food-grade products. Freight slows down and your miles will drop, even if only temporary. That is a well known fact in this industry. Milk and eggs however, never stop much less slow down...

Not if that person in the office is doing what they should and dealing with that driver individually, unless it warrants other personal in higher positions to be made aware of it. It's called professionalism.

I do hope you stay busy with having those payments to make now that you're an O/O. I really do not want to read another story at being a failed independent fro whatever reason. Best of luck to you.

So be it, but unless you actually do it and have personal experience to see why tanker yankers are a very happy bunch you'll never understand nor have room to talk about how much better things are in your "box world", especially when you have nothing else to compare it with. That is unless you're a Union or LTL driver, and then you've truly got it great!

Oh, I don't care what you think about what Skywalker says, you'll have to take that up with him.

Also, I'm not tied into any situation that requires me to make a ton of money. Are you? So by being able to make $50,000 from 70 loads a year with more time off versus $55,000 from double or triple the loads with less time off is working harder? Or like my current situation being paid for everything work related and not running hardly any miles as I do now at Superior. Trust me, I have crunched numbers. Being happy and making what I need to make are more important than being miserable hauling around a box making the highest c.p.m. out here working for a large company. All the money in the world doesn't equal happiness.

One more thing about smarter not harder especially now that you're an O/O... Why in the hell are you running for mileage pay when you can make more and run less miles by pulling for percentage?

Oh yes it is possible. The biggest mistake was falling for the hype of higher cpm for a large company that had tons of freight. You must also remember though, I started driving in 1999. Shaffer was not my first rodeo...

As are you. However, unlike you, I have just a little bit more to base my opinions off of concerning the industry and segments of it as a whole. I've done vans, reefers, flats (military), and of course my favorite, tankers. And your right, nothing anyone says can or will sway your or my opinion. And my opinion is that general freight hauling sucks, regardless of how high the pay is.

I'm sure there's many who have read my tanker thread over the years who decided to give tanks a try and found it not to their liking, and many who have. It's an individual decision to be made for whatever reason it is. But I guarantee you this, as a tanker our decisions are based around the whole work smart, not hard ideal.

If you can find the time to when you're out here on the road, strike up a conversation wherever with as many tanker drivers as possible and ask why he/she does it. Especially when they can make oh so much more money at Company X pulling a box...

:wink:

Well then, why didn't you get good miles there? You're avoiding the question. Before I left Roehl to come here I literally tried to strike up a convo with every Crete driver I saw, whether it was in a restaurant or on the CB. I probably spoke to 50 of them, literally. Only 1 guy was pissed at Crete and ready to quit because he said that he "never got to go home" he did say that he got good miles though.

Now in your defense, I spoke to an Aartman driver on the fuel island at the Bosselman's in Altoona, IA and I remember him saying "You couldn't pry me away from this b*tch with a crowbar!" and coupled with your thread that you update regularly, I was ready to jump ship. However I'm glad I didn't.

Do either of us have hard numbers to argue the turnover rate? No, so what's the point? As a driver that has just graduated from a PTDI certified CDL school or someone with 1 year experience, you'd be hard pressed to find a company that pays as good and keeps you moving like Crete does.

And as far as surge. I know what defensive driving is and understand that tankers need more room to stop, hence needing a larger space cushion in front of you, so I aint skeert. Some of the craziest drivers I see on the road are chemical haulers, I'm not saying that to attack you but it's the truth.

In case of accident, would you rather be covered in eggs or milk or toxic chemicals like you haul? :?:

Why is Aartman an exception? I have worked in offices and know the games and immaturity that goes on in a typical office enviroment, so why are their offices different? Of course it's possible that happens at Crete and every other company out there!

As an o/o I'm going to go where I get the discounts. As a company driver, having to go 10 miles out of route is a minor inconvenience.

Good for you. My truck is wide open, but guess what? I enjoy getting good MPG. I have 44k in the box, I ran 593 miles yesterday and got 6.2 MPG with my Detroit 60, thank you very much. You probably also enjoy being able to pass company trucks, right? I mean after all, you don't pay for the fuel.

Yeah I haul napkins, cereal, pop-tarts, spaghetti sauce etc. Grocery warehouses certainly don't make up over %15 of my total loads though. BTW Crete has a General Mills dedicated that I believe is %100 drop and hook.

The last part is incorrect. These large companies don't try to divide equally. They do what's in their best interest. They try to minimize deadhead miles.

There's also much less milk and eggs to haul vs. everything else that can be put in a dry van. You want stability, Acklie has been in business for 40 years, every truck, every terminal is paid in full.

So what you're saying is every tanker driver is happier? Are you the national spokesman for tanker drivers, or what? :lol:

I'm not trying to say that pulling a dry box is necessarily better, but I'm happy. It seems as if you have something to prove by tearing down the company I drive for and it really doesn't bother me at all.

Absolutely not. I made $50k a year sitting on my azz taking phone calls all day before I entered this industry. I have 1 small car payment and a modest mortgage payment.

With money though, my attitude is "the more the merrier."

I agree. And when you're dead you can't take your money with you. (read my next response)

Since you're assuming that I haven't spoke to tanker drivers I'll fill you in as to why I would never haul a chemical tank.

I met a tanker yanker in Mississippi last fall who was pulling drinking water. He hauled chemicals for 20+ years. He was recently diagnosed with terminal leukemia, he was getting off the road in a week to be with his family. I told him I was considering pulling chemicals and he told me that he was convinced exposure to all the different chemicals over the years contributed to his illness. We had been talking about our kids and how fun it is to watch them grow up. He practically begged me to reconsider. This was a family man that was facing death. I have an excellent BS detector (which is why I dispute what you're saying) and he wasn't lieing to me.

So you're being condescending because you have more experience then me? Real mature and professional.

Yeah I'm sure you wouldn't want to read another story like that. You'd love nothing more then to read on here that I've failed to try to further prove that what you're doing is so much better then what us OTR drivers are doing :roll:

Don't worry though, I'll be happy to disappoint you.

Cyanide, you left out a few more issues, such as:

Home time: No more then 4 days off, regardless of how long you have been out, be it 3 weeks or six months.
And the requirement for home terminals to approve time off (Mommy, may I please go home).

Vacation time: Five days paid, to a maximum of 15 days. Not weeks, days, because that is what the office staff gets. But then again, they are off on the weekends, drivers are not.

Fuel solutions: Making required stops for fuel wheather needed or not, and often out of (and unpaid) route. Once I was shown a fuel solution that was 67 miles out of route on a run of 600 miles, and another driver told me of one 75 miles out of route on a run of 630 miles.

And the fuel solutions is used to determine routing, not the other way around.

Suggested routes vs. toll policy: Crete drivers are charged back for running a toll road not on their "suggested route", resulting in a lot of time on back roads. And many times the routes sent are not legal for 53 foot trailers, nor for 102" trailers.

But the real kicker is routes in and around Chicago. One route I was shown had the driver going from Interstate 80 to Interstate 290. I have searched long and hard and have yet to find that interchange.
Of course, we all know one can fight the traffic and go through downtown Chicago, or take Interstate 294 and get charged back the tolls. The tolls roads do not appear on the routes in many cases.

This appears to be a determined effort to force company drivers to cover the tolls for Crete.
And it is policy the terminals cannot reroute a driver for any reason.

Crete is not the company it used to be.

how come as a company driver I never was charged for running I294 then?? Care to answer that? I watched my paychecks like a hawk.

Became policy in November 2006. Perhaps you were just lucky.

One of my drivers friends was told flat out by dispatch two weeks ago "Crete does not run toll roads" while trying to get 45000 lbs across Indiana and Ohio for ontime delivary.

theses boards are too funny , one who has done it ,one who wants to do it , and one who has done it all. then again you have to compare apple to apples not a apple to a dried up grape. that being said i have done both pulled box and food grade tankers. there is not really any good way to compare the two, food grade by far is the best. both the shipper and reciever are glad to see you when you get there . no worry about being heavy on your drive axles or trailer , just load upward of 51000lbs in the tank and go.one down fall about tankers they are loaded to gross about 79500 all the time . but that is all in the past since i don't drive anymore . instead i work in retail selling tires ,from little one to great big ones, and it's so nice to be able to go home everynight and not sleep in a truck, i am just a retail SLACKER now.

Avoiding questions, hmmm, I don't see how. Why don't you make a time machine and take us back to when I was there so we can see all the loads I did. Wait, we don't have to because I have my journal documenting every trip and every mile paid to back up everything I post. All of my loads there were dispatched at a pace of roughly 400 miles per day maximum, with firm, set appointment times. Then add in the time spent wasted between reloads and maybe you can figure out why I wasn't getting great miles.

You'll be delighted though to know that I found a few more miles that I ran with Shaffer (though not enough to go back), and they are listed in here now for a full comparison, as well as the other posts.

Now, let's talk about that getting home thing shall we? Remember that I live in Florida. When I was there, the National Fleets were as follows: Shaffer had a three week out dispatch, Crete a four week out dispatch. Even with Crete currently telling me they "try" for a three week out dispatch with Florida drivers, that's not good enough. I want to be able to come home more often if I choose. If I choose to stay out that long then so be it, but don't tell me it's a requirement to stay out that long, especially with the four day time off maximum rule.

Also, with my personal situation, Acklie simply will not give me the hometime I need, and as often as I need it. They simply do not work for me. Couple that with my bad experience there, and I'm forced to refute you and anyone else who calls them one of the best companies out here.

I can think of a few actually. My current company and sister company for starters...

My point being an old cliche'...the best companies don't have to advertise. Yet over the past year and then some, Acklie has had ads running in every major trucking publication and also began advertising on XM, when they hardly ever advertised at all. Why is that? Apparently there is a turnover problem, even if minor.

And just for general info, the turnover rate here at Superior Carriers is 34% and Carry Transit is 37%.

You don't have one concept of surge if you've never actually experienced it. Knowledge of defensive driving only gets you so far until you experience the real thing.

Crazy and the truth? Prove it. Funny, I always notice box haulers doing the stupid stuff such as shooting hills, going into curves at the posted speed limit, trying to drive in snow and on ice at the speed limit, etc.

Mmmmm, I love eggs and milk!!!

Toxic chemicals huh? You make it sound as if we chemical tanker drivers deal with nasty stuff every load, and that we don't wear the necessary safety gear. To refresh your memory, I've done fifteen actual HAZMAT loads since being with Superior Carriers. Out of those, the two that were actually really nasty were handled completely by the shipper/receiver. I was not allowed to be anywhere near the actual loading/unloading, as is the case with many companies. And obviously you're not aware of how much it takes to actually split open a tank. Also, I actually have been covered before and didn't get as much as a mark since I had on my PPE and all immediate action was taken as trained for.

Allow me to ask the same question of you though but from a different perspective. What are you going to do if you are picking up/delivering a HAZMAT load, you're required to be on the dock to supervise, and the forklift driver ruptures a tote, drum, etc. covering you?

Not when you are being instructed to put in x amount of gallons here, x amount of gallons there. Talk about eating up time for work, not to mention your free time. Out of route adds up, as well as the extra line four time for those extra fuel stops. Guess I'm spoiled not ever having worked where a company driver is told where to fuel and how much to fuel. Is this a small reason perhaps why you are no longer a company driver there?

Oh, that's such an impressive answer! With 52,000 pounds loaded in the tank running the routes I did with a C-12 Cat, geared 3.70, with an Eaton Fuller 10-speed running the speed limit of whatever state I was in, I averaged 5.8 mpg.

My reasoning has nothing to do with passing other company trucks. I've already stated some of those reasons before. You're simply too focused on making comments to try and divert the subject.

Does Crete or Shaffer National Fleet operate 100% drop and hook? No, they do not. You still deal with other places that are PITA to deal with other than grocery houses. And I could really care less about a dedicated fleet because our debate isn't about that.

An impressive point indeed. But Acklie's not the only one that's been around forty years; so has Jim (Aartman Sr.).

Once again though since you didn't absorb it, milk and eggs never stop running, since cows and chickens don't stop producing. Day in day out a food-grade tanker driver will always have loads to pick up and deliver, and miles to run. Acklie is still a general freight carrier. General freight has slowdowns and potential shutdowns. Last time I checked, you can't transport raw milk, liquid eggs, juice, alcohol, chocolate, corn syrup, glycerin, etc. in your dry van to a processing or manufacturing plant now can you? And you can't put enough quantity of those in a reefer either to replace bulk tank shipments.

As for "variety", I'll go back to the point of consistently running the same freight lanes back and forth with the same products. Especially when dealing with having a consistent paycheck every week. Seeing all the different parts of the country got old quite a few years ago.

Happier, yes. National spokesman, no. I do however, enjoy sharing my information with others based upon facts from personal experience. But I accept your nomination and will stand dilligently behind my opinions.

Wrong again. In your own round about way you've tried to discredit food-grade tanking as being cheaper and that running a dry box is better because of the bigger company, more freight, higher cpm argument. I am glad that you are happy at Crete. I have nothing to prove. However, I have every right to tell people that Acklie is not the end all, be all from once again, my personal experience driving there (though it most certainly goes against the grain of you and all the other happy drivers there). Working smarter, not harder goes far beyond that high cpm you keep speaking of with any large company.

Then why are you running for mileage pay when you can make more and run less by pulling for percentage?

A sad story indeed. However, did this driver divulge to you anything else that may have attributed to his illness? Did he tell you his doctor diagnosed him due to chemical exposure, or did he come to that conclusion, per your statement? I understand the hazards associated with my occupation. Nonetheless, this sad story of a chemical tanker driver has absolutely nothing to do with where this has come to, in comparing Aartman and Acklie. Now, if you'd like to compare Acklie and Superior Carriers, go right on ahead. In that perspective I understand and respect why you don't want to pull chemical tankers.

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Not at all. But you took it that way. Why the big mystery on your total driving experience? Are you ashamed? Do you have something to hide? You seem to take great offense when this issue is brought up, whether by myself here or in other posts by other drivers with obviously more (experience) than you. You seem to have the attitude that you can't be told anything, and that you have everything figured out, even when it concerns something you've never actually done. Case in point, you choose to be argumentive with me over facts I present from my actual time at Shaffer and at Jim Aartman.

Are you saying that at Crete as a company driver you were making .46/mile? That's what you must have been paid to take a .12 pay cut starting at Aartman (.32 + .02 bonus for six months, then .33 + .02 bonus for six months, then .34 + .02 bonus). More on this below...

Once again you are wrong. I was being completely true and honest with my statement Prodigy. I do wish nothing but the best of luck to you in your endeavor. I don't wish malice against anyone unless they do something to harm my family or I personally. You have taken a path I never will with purchasing a truck. But I'm not going to tell you not to do it, or that you're crazy for doing it, though I have seen many who did and failed miserably. Only time will tell in the long run if it is a good career move for you. Again, I hope it is and brings everything you desire it to.

And as of today, I am still a very happy OTR driver.

No worries, the only one you'll disappoint is yourself. Your youthful bravado does absolutely nothing to impress me.

You mention avoiding questions, then why am I still waiting for answers to these?

What would posess you to go to Bynum instead of Aartman, if you pulled easy food-grade tankers? What brings you to the conclusion that they would be a better company than Aartman?

Are you or any of the other happy Acklie drivers going to tell me that at Crete/Shaffer as a company driver you're practically guaranteed almost 12,000 miles from only 5 or 6 six loads with a full week off consistently per month, 100% no-touch freight, no company politicking b.s., or company driver micromanagement?

Take two...The figures below, which are based off of actual mileages and loads ran, will be put as for what I would make at current experience and pay rate levels with each respective company, with the same deductions for my 401k and tax. However, Shaffer's PAY COMPARISON numbers are going to be adjusted +8 % for them finally paying practical route miles in October of 2005.

Shaffer Trucking National Fleet, Nov. 27, 2001 to May 20, 2003
Total dispatched miles: 169,210...182,747 (Converted to practical routing +8%)
Average monthly miles: 9,533...10,296
Average annual miles: 114,396...123,552
Total loads: 191
Average annual loads: 129
Average length of haul: 886 miles...957
Total days off: 124
Average annual days off: 84 (rounded up from 83.76)
Monthly average days off: 6.98

$55,598.40: 123,552 miles x .45/mile
- 2,779.92: 5% 401k (with company's 10% match on the dollar equals $3,057.91)
$52,818.48: Taxable gross income
-13,204.62: 25% Tax
$39,613.86: Annual net income


Jim Aartman Inc., June 24, 2004 to July 27, 2006
Total dispatched miles: 297,853
Average monthly miles: 11,914
Average annual miles: 142,968
Total loads: 145
Average annual loads: 70
Average length of haul: 2,054 miles
Total days off: 195
Average annual days off: 94 (rounded up from 93.6)
Monthly average days off: 7.8

$51,468.48: 142,968 x .36/mile (.34 base + .02 quarterly bonus)
+ 2,400.00: Health insurance credit reimbursement
$53,868.48: Gross
-14,634.00: Per diem deduction (271 days x $54/day)
$39,234.48: Adjusted gross
- 1,961.72: 5% 401k (with company's 100% match on the dollar equals $3,923.44)
$37,272.76: Taxable gross income
- 9,318.19: 25% Tax
$27,954.57: Adjusted gross
+14,634.00: Per diem reimbursement
$42,588.57: Annual net income

So by being able to gross only a mere $53,868 from 70 loads a year with ten more days off, versus $55,598 from almost double the amount of loads that are much shorter and, with less time off for the year is working harder not smarter?

People can read and decide for themselves as to what they deem good and bad. Only an individual can make the proper choice for them, and their family if they have one. It doesn't matter if it's van, reefer, flats, tanks, specialized, etc. as long as it works for them.

For me, it's obviously tanker regardless if it's chemical or food-grade. I have fun, and more importantly, I love doing it. Those who know me can attest to that, whether as a friend or, just as another driver asking for information through a simple email, private message, or phone call.

With this I leave you to say what you will and believe what you may.