JoePa
 

Still can't believe he is really done at PSU. Happy to see former players and even the lawyer of some of the victims coming to Joe's defense. The man did what he was legally required to do and yet he has become the main scapegoat while the actual witness who did absolutely nothing to intervene had gotten away scot free until Friday. The fans have turned on him now, he is suddenly in hiding due to threats against him. Not surprised by that, how could he live with himself knowing HE got JoePa fired by dragging him into it instead of going to the cops himself or intervening himself to stop it. He was 23-24 years old at the time, more than old enough to know what he saw and that it was wrong and should be stopped. He's a big boy as is, he could have easily walked in there and kicked Sandusky's tail and put an end to it right then 10 years ago. I hope PSU goes the next 20 years without a single win in football. For the loyalty Joe showed to them since the 60's, this is how they treated him when things got tough, c-ya. He IS/WAS Penn St. He was the only reason they were able to get recruits in the Mid 2000's after several piss poor years, come play for Paterno. He brought them back to contenders over the last 6 years even as he hit 80 years old. Joe and his wife have done so daggone much for the PSU campus. They have donated tons and tons of money.

Paterno should be holding the hands of the rest of them leading them to jail. McQuery has said he went to Paterno with what he saw. Regardless of how "descriptive" he was in his explanation to Paterno in what he saw, Paterno did what was "legally" required of him? Your kidding, right? What about "morally"? What about the kids? What a copout! What would you do if you saw someone in the shower with a 10yr old little boy? What would you do if someone told you they saw someone in the shower with a 10yr old little boy? Tell your boss, wash your hands of it and worry about your legacy? That doesn't raise a flag? He was having Anal sex with him for God's sake! What do you tell all of the "boy's" that have been affected by this?

Paterno has already said " in hindsight I wish I would have done more". That tells me he knew what was going on and you would never convince me otherwise. As long as an association they have had with each other you think Paterno didn't know what was going on? Have you read how long this has been going on? Have you seen the investigations that are going on in other states? Are you going to try to tell me they ALL didn't know what was going on. Have you seen how they tried to "hide" Sandusky but still keep him in the picture? The only thing Penn State and EVERYONE associated with them that knew about this was worried about was their precious reputations and legacies. Every single one of them, including Paterno, should rot in jail and I hope he does!

Paterno's a FRICKIN football coach, not a GOD! I don't care what he's done for the University. That's all out the window now. It's not an excuse for what HE let continue! "They" talk about how Paterno ran the place, not ANYBODY else. Well.....it's time to own up!

Yes, he did do what he was legally required to do in the state of PA for a University official. As for morally, not going to argue that point but it never should have gotten to Paterno. McQuery should have ended it himself and he failed, if anyone should have been fired it should have been him first. Instead he's suddenly been put on paid leave due to the backlash. If no backlash had happened he'd have been on the sidelines yesterday. Don't even bring up the whole, "federal whistleblower" act as protecting him from being fired. He's not covered by it because he wasn't the one who tipped off the feds, it was a victim of Sandusky who ended up going to the police first.

What I'm saying is, don't blame just Paterno, don't make him the bad guy or the scapegoat. He did not sexually molest those kids, Sandusky did it yet where he is in all of this? The media is focused on Paterno and stalking him night and day right now yet the actual guilty party is being left alone. All I see on ESPN is them stopping just short of calling Paterno a sexual predator. Go after McQuery who actually witnessed it yet did nothing. Go bug Sandusky, leave Paterno alone at this point. He's not involved with the federal investigation per the feds.

To me, Paterno's legacy is not ruined by this at all. Woody Hayes physically assaulted an opposing player on national TV and his legacy wasn't completely ruined, JoePa simply failed to act morally.

Looks like PSU isn't the only one with an issue of sexual assaults. The Citadel has suddenly announced that they have been quietly investigating their own case that wasn't brought to the attention of police right away either.

My point was......I'm not protecting ANYBODY associated with this and I'm not blaming just Paterno. They are ALL culpable, and that especially includes Paterno. He could have stopped this a long time ago, along with several other people. Maybe it shouldn't have gotten as far as Paterno but it did and he did nothing beyond what was "legal" and washing his hands of it. As far as his legacy, maybe to folks like the ones who were standing outside his house the other night and the homers, it might be OK, but to me and NUMEROUS other sports fans around here anyway, he's DONE! I don't care what good he's done in the past, it's ALL been wiped away by this as far as myself and others are concerned.

Where is Sandusky? In jail the last time I saw him, just where the rest of them should be, including Paterno. I think if anybody tried to institute the whistleblower act there would be another riot.

I find it odd Mcqueery isnt fired. Could it be he was TOLD to just forget what he saw and WE will handle it? In this case "WE" had to include Paterno. He was invovlved in everything else but not this? So Joe either believes him or he doesnt. If he believes him, he did nothing more than report it? Continues to let Sandusky hang around and goes to rallies and such with him? Doesnt demand a police investigation? If he doesnt believe him them Mqueery's a liar but Joe keeps him around and promotes him? Doesnt pass my BS detector. There were just too many instances over the years. Paterno was avoiding a scandal and now has a bigger one. Sometimes these cases can be difficult to prove. He said she said. Witnesses change their mind and backout. High priced attorneys twist things around. Similar to date rape maybe. Paterno and the administration didnt want to get involved in something they werent sure of or how it would turn out so they kept covering it up. Now they are trying to keep what Mcqueery knows covered up too. The board voted Joe out unanimously. In 50 years he didnt make one friend that would stick with him? They know something we dont yet.

Snowman, Joe burned a lot of bridges with the Board of Trustees when they tried to coerce him out around 2004 and he fought tooth and nail to stay as the coach. That is why they were so quick to send him packing, they were just waiting for a good excuse.

Since we don't know what Joe was told and may never ever know what he was really told how can we hold this over him? Your exactly right in how hard these cases can be to prove. McQuery's own dad told him to forget what he saw and get out of the building ASAP. He didn't call the cops, he called his f-ing dad. He probably went to Joe and said he thought he saw something but he wasn't sure. All Joe can do is pass the word on that a grad asst saw something but isn't sure what he saw. WTF are you supposed to do with that? Even the police would laugh at you.

Rob, Sandusky is sitting at home currently, he's out on bail by a judge who worked with him at Second Mile. Second Mile is Sandusky's charity group for kids. It's going to get real ugly in the very near future with the details about to come out. Apparently this Sandusky guy was investigated as far back as the mid 90's by a DA who suddenly dropped off the face of the earth in 2005. That DA never acted on accusations back in the 90's to try and stop Sandusky's little fetish. Further details are suggesting that he and his charity were pimping kids out to rich donors. This is WAY beyond JoePa.

His memory got alot better at the Grand Jury hearing. If he said something more vague to Joe 10 years ago then why hasn't he been fired yet? Just doesnt add up. Not to mention the other allegations over the years. I think Joe and the whole administration knew alot more than what's been said.

I'm not a hater. I think Paterno's basically a good guy. He got dealt a raw deal and I dont think he played it right. In some ways its similar to Tressel but of course alot worse. Tressel didnt do anything wrong himself, someone tipped him off about tatoos and memorabilia, stuff that's not even illegal. These coaches at a top 20 university are under stress and pressure that we could never understand. Boosters, alumni, fans and administrators are ruthless. They all want to win so badly they cant stand it. Competition is fierce and even a guy who wants to play by the rules is faced with difficult choices. I feel horrible for Paterno. But I still think he played it wrong. He said so himself. "With the benefit of hindsight I wish I would have done more". I'll bet Tressel knows exactly what he means.

What upsets me is that the actual guilty party is not getting hated on, not getting slammed by the media blitz. The witness hasn't been punished in any way thus far. He is listed as on admin leave by the school, pish, he's in hiding from the lynch mob around State College. Paterno did nothing illegal and yet he's being strung up by ESPN and the rest of the media as the bad guy in this whole scandal. He's tried to make amends and get the media focused in the right direction, help the victims find closure, yet they won't follow his lead. They continue to hound him/stalk him like he's the man who was molesting these kids.

Tressel did do wrong, he lied to the Feds when they showed up in Columbus to investigate. He told the Feds that he knew nothing about what his players were being accused of only to have emails come out showing that he was indeed informed several times and told nobody about it.

I dont see the media slamming him. No one is name calling. I HAVE heard the media and everyone else slam Mcqueery. There's alot of questions being asked, as there should be. The school fired him. The school has not fired Mcqueery (I think this fact is intriguing). The media is simply covering the story.


Agreed but..."With the benefit of hindsight I wish I would have done more". ..Fast forward a few months and we'll see what JoePa knew...

Again, I like Paterno, who doesn't. It's hard to see our heroes not being who we think they are. We dont want it to be true. And I like Tressel too, he's a good man from a good local family. Tatoos and memorablilia, totally legal, as you like to say about Paterno. And dont think far worse isnt going on at every major university. Its all a big game they play with the NCAA.

Where's that "couch sitting observer" smilie??

I wanted to get into this after the first two posts. Y'all pretty much covered the 'camps' in this discussion.

I'll bet no one here can guess which 'camp' I supported.

Not that anyone would care. Nor should they. It would JUST be my opinion.

So now some emails have been leaked and one says that McQueary told a friend that he did indeed go to the police both local and campus police before going to JoePa in 2002. So there you have it, if true then the police are to blame and the media owe JoePa an apology for hounding him so badly. No wonder he didn't go to the police if McQueary already had gone to the police as the email says. Why go a second time? They failed to act just as they failed to act back in the mid-90's when allegations first surfaced.

Ok. So he went to the police. Wouldn't one think that Paterno would be the least bit inquisitive about one of his employee's being accused of sexual misconduct with a 10yr old boy? Wouldn't you expect SOME kind of action eventually for that kind of accusation? Don't you think he, (Paterno), would dig into it a little bit further? Why go a second time? Maybe because I'm the Boss. Maybe to find out what kind of investigation is going on against one of my employee's that has been accused of having sexual miscondut with a 10yr old boy. Maybe because it's the right thing to do. Maybe because it's the SMART thing to do.

I still say Paterno, among others, passed the buck and dropped the ball.

Why even go to the police when they have done nothing to the accused when previously informed? By their actions it means there is nothing to the accusation, end of story basically. Sandusky should have been in jail in 1995 and yet he wasn't. The DA(who BTW went MIA in 2005) and the police were informed of him doing this crap back then and did nothing. They either swept it under the rug or never took it seriously and ignored the evidence against him. So again, why even keep going to the police? Why should Joe have gone to dig around in 2002? Sandusky at that time was no longer working for the school, he left PSU in 1999. I think by Joe's hindsight statement it was more along the lines of, I wish I had done more to keep him away from PSU when I was first told of the allegations because apparently McQueary told Joe that he had already talked with the police. Knowing that Joe didn't need to contact them himself, they had already been contacted, he only needed to contact his boss per the PA law and inform him of the situation.

The legal aspect of this will be determined in the courts. And as hard as these cases can be to prove it wouldn't surprise me at all if no one gets convicted of anything. But for me its an issue of common sense and moral judgement. Joe Paterno RAN that football program. Football, the facilities, the program, the field...all of it. He was unquestionably in charge and made every decision that needed to be made. Jerry Sandusky was his coach for 30+ years. There was probably no one closer to Sandusky during that time then Joe Paterno. You cant work that closely in such a high pressure environment and not know the guy. Joe heard all the rumors, all the accusations, all the whispering, the finger pointing. He heard it for years. If somebody you work with or are close to has a problem you know. After 30 years you know. But Sandusky was allowed complete access to the facilities and the program even after he retired. At the very least I would have looked Sandusky right in the eye and told him you're no longer welcome in my football program, pack your bags and get the hell out. There are just too many things in this whole case that dont pass the smell detector. Sandusky was dirty and alot of people knew including Joe. I think Joe is a good guy who did alot of great things, but he got dealt a bad hand and it sucks for him. I dont believe he belongs in jail (unless something really bad comes out) but he has to be investigated for what went on in his program and be held accountable. Then at the very least he will be judged in the court of popular opinion.

Money and power has made these people loose their soul.
I feel Joe Pa should hang his head in shame, and everyone else involved.

I think Joe should go to jail, and so what if he's 84.
Still not too late for him to know what a Sandusky shower is like....then see how he feels about that.

That's the thing. He DIDN'T leave PSU in 1999. He "quit" coaching in '99 but he was still around. The "alleged" shower incident with the 10yr old took place on campus at PSU in '02. That is one of the questions everyone is asking.......if he quit coaching in '99 then why was he allowed to still hang around? I think I even read that he still had a parking spot. I'm with snowman. I think Paterno did alot of great things, along with his wife. Unfortunatley, by him putting his head in the sand, it is ALL going to be undone.

I really don't want this to turn into another "obama" or "political" thread on my part and I think it very easily could. I've pretty much said my peace and I'm going to just sit on the sidelines for the rest of this one. It's so hard to try to get a point across on the computer without it sounding completely like you don't want it too and I get along with everybody on this "sports" page and I want to keep it that way, so ya'll enjoy and I'll just "read" this thread and chime in on the others.

The Trustees just wanted to get rid of JoePa. It burns them that a man of his age is still the best out there.

Rob, would you want to be the person who tells a charity they can't come in anymore because their founder is an alleged sick perv? This story just get's stranger by the day. Now the police are calling McQueary a liar.

I think it's just a matter of EVERYONE trying to cover their arses.:moon: This is all sooooo bad that nobody want's any part of this sticking to them.:fire:

while we are at it, lets make all the priests immune from punishment too

They took down JoePa's statue.

And I love<sarcasm> the admin's reason as to why.............we want to remove it to close that dark chapter and not re-open wounds............that's exactly what just happened by doing this. It doesn't make everything better suddenly for the victims. JoePa did not hurt those kids, JoePa did not witness it. They simply put it in storage so it may eventually be put back in place, never should have been taken down.

Of course I do believe that tomorrow morning PSU will no longer have NCAA football for a few years. Big announcement is being made tomorrow to announce their punishment by the NCAA with zero investigation and zero NCAA rules being broken. If PSU is given the death penalty then the NCAA will show just how broken the system is, they should go back and give Miami, OSU and USC the death penalty also. OSU was caught up in a Fed investigation, some at OSU knowingly tried to hide it. Not sure if USC knew of any Fed involvement or not for their numerous issues. All 3 broke numerous NCAA rules but escaped the death penalty even though they have a history of problems.

So then you believe...

A. Joe Paterno had no knowledge for 15 years or more of Jerry Sandusky being a pedophile?
B. Joe Paterno was not involved in a cover up to keep Sandusky's crimes hidden in a closet in order to protect the football program?
and
C. Joe Paterno's (and the other admins) failure to act didn't allow several more boys to be molested over the next few years?

Because I'll tell ya I believe it all to be true. I told you so 8 months ago. I have no knowledge of NCAA sanctions but I have no sympathy for PSU, it's football program, or the legacy of JoePa. They deserve whatever they get. If he were still alive he'd be facing child endangerment charges like the other admins.

If it werent for Jerry Sandusky Joe would have died a great man and a great coach. But power, money, fame and football blurred his judgement. Now the University and his family will pay the price.

Stop drinking the kool-aid bro.

Just curious, Snowman. What would your opinion be if YOUR son was a sophmore on the team... with a scholarship that would lead to his MBA ?

I'm not sure what you're getting at Hobo but my opinion of what the coach and the admins did wouldn't change. Are you asking would I pull my kid out of school? Or should I look the other way for personal gain? Should I soften my stance on any possible NCAA sanctions? What are you asking? And I guess while your at it maybe you could state who's camp you're in?

I guess my question was about the part I highlighted. You said you had no sympathy for the school or the football program. IF they had gotten the death penalty, wouldn't certain students lose the opportunity to get an education if they were at PSU on a football scholarship?

Not sure if there is a camp that I can join, lol. I believe that anyone who knew about it should be fired and prosecuted. I just don't agree with punishing the school OR the innocent players for what others did.

I just saw the press conference awhile ago on the NCAA sanctions. I'm glad they didn't get the death penalty, but I don't like the suspension of bowl game participation. NO good player with NFL aspirations will go near PSU for years. This is punishing the players, the program and the community for things that... as Mr. Ford pointed out.... had nothing to do with NCAA rules or violations of recruiting, etc.

As for Joe, my feelings are mixed. If he indeed covered it up because he KNEW it could damage his program and his legacy, then he got what he deserved. IF, however, he was just a confused old man who only thought of football, and thought he had told the proper officials and then went back to concentrating on winning games?.... then, I think his legacy should not be tarnished the way it has been.

I'm not a hero worshipper of Joe PA or the PSU program, so I really have no dog in the fight. I'm only thinking of the "fictional" sophomore player who may have reasons to NOT want to transfer to another school, but should be afforded all the rights and rituals of college football and college life.

So... if the camps are yours and Mr. Ford's, well.... lol... I guess I'm a Centrist.

Any time a school is punished they always include bowl bans and limit scholarships. Thats nothing new. So if other schools have already been punished the same way then so should PSU. Now is it fair to punish incoming players? I dont know. I know these schools are so rich and powerful its hard to get through to them with a strong message. As for what I and my hypothetical son LOL would do there's no way to answer that without it being real and knowing what all our options are. I guess if he's that talented he could go where ever he wants and if not he still gets to stay on with his scholarship.

Its obvious to me the school knows what happened. They paid for the independent investigation and they are not fighting the NCAA. They already signed off on it. And if the the school knew then Joe knew. He was the most powerful man by far on campus. His family may be protesting but they are only trying to protect their money and assets. They know the civil suits are coming.

The whole thing is very sad really. I say again Joe was a great man. But he made a huge mistake in judgement. I think its fair that he loses wins and respect. I have empathy for him and his family, just not sympathy.

The glory of football was placed above the safety of children. If Sandusky was a History professor and not a football coach I'll bet he would have been exposed, fired, and prosecuted years ago.

Show me where JoePa knowingly covered up anything. Per the FBI investigation, not the Freeh report, Joe did what he was supposed to do per the school when he was told by McQueary. Sandusky was no longer a coach there when McQueary informed JoePa. WTF would you think or do if a friend you've known a long time was suddenly accused of this? Would you immediately sever ties like a punk or be a true friend and try to find out what's going on?

Knowing the announcement the NCAA might as well have called it the death penalty, it's going to be at least 10 years before PSU football gets back on the map.

It is really easy to blame someone who is dead. I don't see how taking any wins that he had over the years is helping anyone. All it does is punish those students and players who did what they were supposed to do. This is so wrong, just as it was wrong to take his statue down. They have not proven that Joe Paterno did anything wrong, yet they are going after him because he cannot defend himself. And from what I understand, they guy who originally made the charge isn't even sure that he saw anything that was inappropriate. I believe that he stated that he isn't sure exactly what he saw. Why didn't he do more in the beginning, if he thought that something was going on? He waited for more than a decade to come out and make his charges public.

Exactly GMAN.

The death penalty would have been better in this case for PSU, shut down football for 2 years and then move on. Instead they basically have gotten a 4 year death penalty here, no recruit is going to go there in the next 2-3 years, it will be nothing but "walk-on" types if they decide to play on. After the whippings they will receive no recruit 4 years from now is going to look at PSU and want to go there. They prolly won't even be in a conference anymore. The largest college stadium in the country will end up being partially torn down because the seats won't be needed. I say at least 10 years before they get back on the map, SMU wasn't exactly a small time team when they got shutdown for a year(ended up being 2 years by a school decision) but it's taken them about 25 years just to return to the map. PSU has 4 years and are a major team..........might be 20 years for them if they ever return.

Rather than going after the school, they should be going after those who failed to act or covered up Sandusky's acts. Any found guilty should be punished to the full extent of the law. I don't see why the NCAA should even have become involved.

He covered up for a pedophile witch makes him just as dirty, sorry can't agree with you on this one.

How do yo know he covered up for Sandusky? You need evidence, you know the evidence that the FBI has which shows that JoePa did no such thing, hence why they never charged him with anything and stated right from the start that Joe had done nothing wrong. Again, a former FBI head put out an opinion, an opinion that contains very few details of his claims against Joe. The man even refuses to show his "facts" to back up his claims. You show me the evidence where Joe covered it up because what I heard was that he was informed of something that the witness wasn't even entirely sure what he saw. You gonna kick a friend to the curb and call the cops on them too just because your told something like this or are you going to go ask that friend what is going on first? If your going to toss a friend under the bus at the drop of a hat then your not a true friend.

Go talk to your friend? .... About raping a child? .... What's he gonna say? ....Then what?

The authorities need to know. Let them talk to your friend.

Its obvious the school knows the truth. They signed off on, even agreed to beforehand, all the sanctions. They dont want or need anymore investigating. They dont want anymore information getting released then whats already out there. In a way, they're still covering up. They all know they gonna lose big money in civil suits.

See, this is where I have a tiny bit of experience. Guy worked at a tire shop where we get all our tires, we didn't hang out with each other but we were friendly and joked around while I was there mainly because his brother drove a truck also. Out of the blue he isn't there one day, or the next day, open the paper and see he's been arrested for "raping" a 15 year old. Of course he bonds out of jail and goes back to the tire shop to let them know what is going on and see if he can still work there until the trial(they did allow him to keep working.) I never once looked at him as some bad guy just because of what I read in the paper. Instead I asked him about what I had read on him, he told me his side and I still came away feeling the same as I did before. There was no hatred towards him. He was convicted and got like 8 years but he maintained that it was consensual and she had told him she was 19 just like he had told me. When he gets out, if I see him around I won't pop him in the mouth or turn my back on him. You don't toss a friend under the bus just because you hear something about them. You find out what is going on, if they tell you it's BS and you don't believe them, then by all means toss them under the bus and go to the police. Apparently Joe went to Sandusky to find out what was up, apparently he believed Sandusky enough to not call the police right then and there. Hindsight is 20/20, Joe admitted he made a mistake there in believing Sandusky. Joe did inform the school of a possible issue with Sandusky, it was their job at that point to dig deeper not Joe's.

What does that have to do with ANYTHING? Not even close to the same. YOU had no responsibility to do a thing. The guy was already under arrest and whether you choose to believe him or not is irrelevant.

First of all where are you getting this? Secondly thats your answer? Joe says "hey Jerry did you rape that kid? Jerry says no Joe. Joe says OK friend dont worry about it. Give me a freakin break. And even if it happened that's OK with you even though Joe was wrong? Cmon man! Joe was aware of accusations back to 1998. McQueary told Joe exactly what he saw and Joe and the others told McQueary to forget what he saw. McQueary is a pssuy for letting them push him around but he was crystal clear in court on what he saw. He finally manned up. There is so much more beneath the surface that we dont know. It stinks to high heaven. Thats why Penn State is laying down, they just want it to go away before any more dirt gets discovered.

This is the part you dont want to believe. Joe informed them alright, not just in 2001. Sandusky was a problem on their hands for years. And they collectively decided it was best to not say anything. Granted it was probably a lot of whispering and finger pointing. It would have been difficult to prove. But they knew, they knew for years. They just didnt want the bad publicity. And you're crazy if you think for a minute Joe wasn't involved in those conversations. He was involved in everything.