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Originally Posted by golfhobo
I WELCOME this discussion. But first.... let's begin with a disucssion or an agreement on what constitutes ON DUTY TIME.
Let's not.
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Or more specifically.... what is meant by "operating a CMV."
That's something entirely different, and it's something you clearly don't understand.
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In the "Alcohol and CMV" thread.... I contend that a PARKED truck with all brakes "popped" is NOT IN OPERATION. I guess I should have specified (and I believe I did) that I meant one that is parked in a truckstop and the driver is considered "off duty" for a 10 hour break.... NOT waiting on a dispatch, etc.
Irrelevant to the discussion.
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I believe that a truck parked AT A DOCK, where the driver is "in readiness to move the vehicle" UNLESS he's been given notice of a timeframe that allows him to enter the SLEEPER BERTH for a designated amount of time, is ON DUTY/NOT DRIVING.
Absolutely. If he's not in the sleeper, he's on duty(not driving)
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He is responsible for exchanging paperwork with the shipper/receiver, and possibly "monitoring" the loading/unloading of the freight. ALL OF THESE duties are considered line 4 activities. And ALL LINE 4 time is ON DUTY time.
Yup. On duty (not driving).
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Now... according to the REG YOU cited....
(d) Responsibilities of the driver. (1) No driver who has been declared out of service shall operate a commercial motor vehicle until that driver may lawfully do so under the rules of this Part.
(d)(2) No driver who has been declared out of service, for failing to prepare a record of duty status, shall operate a commercial motor vehicle until the driver has been off duty for the appropriate number of consecutive hours required by this part and is in compliance with this section.
That CLEARLY means that a driver put OOS MUST log the required 10 hours (or more) in an OFF DUTY status before "operating a CMV."
Yup. Absolutely.
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As I believe I said in that thread, the LEO probably broke the law by allowing him to continue to the receiver. That is a discretionary decision NOT addressed by the FMCSR's. However..... ONCE he entered the receiver's property.... bumping the dock WAS clealy an ON DUTY activity.
Again, irrelevant to the discussion we're having here.
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But.... EVEN if you allow LEO discretion to allow him to continue down the road, enter the property, and bump the dock..... and EVEN allowing him to present his paperwork... :hellno: ... At SOME point you HAVE to agree that he is OOS and cannot perform ANY work on lines 3 or 4 for a MINIMUM of 10 hours!
Nope. The FMCSA does not regulate how long one can be on line 4, and they never have. They only regulate when and for how long someone can be on line 3.
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Now.... HOW many receivers do YOU know that will allow him to spend his OOS time.... 10 full hours.... taking up one of their docks? :hellno:
Irrelevant to the discussion we're having here.
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But, MY response ALSO still "stands" until YOU can refute it. No driver put OOS can perform ANY work on line 3 OR LINE 4 UNTIL he has completed the 10 hour OOS requirement!
The regulation itself refutes it. It states that he cannot operate the CMV (that's line 3 time) until the OOS order has been rescinded.
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I don't know about YOU.... but, I've BEEN in this situation and the LEO offered to let me go to the next overpass and return to the truckstop behind me. He sat and watched me do it! Then followed me into the truckstop and put me OOS!
Again, irrelevant to the discussion.
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THEY take this very seriously! NO WAY an LEO is going to (or SHOULD) allow someone to more or less "finish his run, and bump the dock!" NO way.... NO HOW!
Still irrelevant.
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NOW.... YOU get on board with this.... agree that I am right.... and I'll remove that stupid statement of yours from my sigline. If not.... I think I'll enlarge the type size, change the color, and put SPARKLES around it!
And YOU will acquiesce to it the same way you did Belpre's attacks on ME! AND.... the increased attention will be "ON YOU!" :roll:
Whatever. You've proven nothing, other than you think line 3 and line 4 are identical.
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OOS means OUT OF SERVICE! Means you can't do ANY WORK! IF you don't understand that.... you shouldn't be driving a TRUCK! :hellno:
Nope, you're wrong. Out of service means you can't operate the CMV. The reg is riddled with references to this. Furthermore, in the interpretation for the reg, it states the same thing. Twice. OOS orders
only apply to the operation of a CMV. When I'm on a dock, I'm not "operating" a CMV. When I'm dealing with paperwork, I'm not "operating" a CMV. When I'm taking a drug test, I'm not "operating" a CMV. But all three of those things are On Duty (not driving) activities, and all three could LEGALLY be done during an OOS order.
Just to drive this issue even further, I'm going to give you a hypothetical. Let's say you were involved in an accident with another vehicle which required your vehicle to be towed. You were over your hours when it happened, and the cop who arrived at the scene immediately looked at your log book, and placed you OOS as a result. Now you're out of service on the side of the road. While you are giving police reports, you are on duty (not driving). While you are dealing with the tow truck driver, you are on duty (not driving). While you are riding in the passenger seat of the tow truck, you are on duty (not driving). While you are off taking that REQUIRED alcohol test as a result of the accident (which you are LEGALLY required to do so within 8 hours of the accident per 382.303) you are on duty(not driving).
So by your contention, you could do NONE of these things because you've been placed OOS, and I guess you're just going to have to take that automatic positive as a result of a refusal to be tested. That is by far the DUMBEST argument I've ever heard.