sleepiness and HOS
 

I awoke in the small hours of the morning and the first thought was a "56" Studebaker Powerhawk, with V-8 and stick shift, sitting in front of the house, my first car. I was seventeen years old.

I jumped into my duds and into the low seat of my "poor man's Corvette." Soon we were tooling along dark, desolate highways. After a couple hours, on the way home, I was awakened by rumble strips growling under the passenger side wheels.

I believe there are two fundamental dangers related to falling asleep at the wheel. The first is a notion that "it can't happen to me."

The second danger is the idea that one can successfully fight sleep. No one should need to fall asleep at the wheel of a vehicle twice in order to realize that such a notion is dangerous.

Falling asleep at the wheel is not a phenomenon specific to commercial drivers. If statistics have any value, somewhere a study is still floating around which finds fatigue related accidents more common among non-commercial drivers. However, the physical penalty for loss of control is potentially much higher in the case of an eighteen wheeler. Anyone who falls asleep at the wheel of a vehicle more than once is not taking personal responsibility that it won't happen again. A commercial driver who has fallen asleep more than one time is a driver who is likely, sooner or later, to have a serious, perhaps deadly accident.

We are being held to higher standards. I don't know if that is a good thing. Perhaps all drivers should be held to the same standards as commercial drivers. After all, it is a matter of life and death.

I'm a driver, not a preacher, but this is as good a time as any to ask everyone, please don't fall asleep driving.

Perhaps there are drivers reading this who did not begin their careers before October 1st, 2005. That was the date that professional drivers lost their right to split sleeper berth time. It is important that we give every driver every incentive and encouragement to take a break when first experiencing the symptoms of sleepiness. I, for one, find the loss of the split sleeper berth provision of HOS regulations to be significant step in the wrong direction.

Draconian measures with regard to HOS come to us through the efforts of self proclaimed public interest groups headed up largely by people who have lost loved ones in truck wrecks. Those people are more emotional than rational. Their skewed efforts have succeeded in giving us rules that make it a disadvantage, economically, for a driver to pull over when sleepy. Regardless, we cannot, as professionals, fall asleep while driving. Perhaps if a single experience is not enough to instill iron resolve that it not be repeated, then significant difficulty in finding work as a driver might be for the best.

There is a web page dedicated to restoring our right to take a break when we are sleepy and drive when we are ready, without economic disadvantage. If you are a driver who needs to, or likes to, take breaks in full 8 hour, or 10 hour blocks, every time, all the time, then by all means do so. There are many of us who do not. Many of us valued the split sleeper berth provision, and we'd like to get it back.

Please don't fall asleep at the wheel. We need you.



stonefly

Excellent post, Stonefly. However, it is not true that we lost the split sleeper provision. We lost the "5 and 5" type split that you were used to, but NOT the split provision.

I might agree with you that MANY are/were capable of taking shorter sleeper berth breaks and maintaining awareness, but science has proven otherwise. The depreciation of awareness over long periods of time due to sleep periods of LESS THAN 7 HOURS is indisputable.

What we REALLY lost, is the ability to EXTEND our 14 hour (then, 15 hour) "duty window" by taking any break less than 8 hours in the sleeper.

This DID engender economic issues that have affected many drivers and the industry in general. But, would you place economic considerations ABOVE safety concerrns?

When I was teaming (still am) and had another driver at the wheel, I could excuse an occaisional right side growler as just maybe cutting a curve too tight.... but, when I heard them hit the LEFT SIDE growler.... I came out of the sleeper like a bolt of lightning! :lol2:

There's NO ROOM to play with the median!

Full disclosure.... I did, indeed, start AFTER the change in the fall of 05. However, when driving solo, I've managed to "adjust" my logs to allow me to take a 3 hour nap whenever I felt I needed it. For ME.... 3 hours works fine and doesn't really affect my 14 hour rule. But, I couldn't continue that way forever.... and not with 5 hours either.

I understand your point and your frustration, but I have to agree with the science behind the rules as they are now. IMHO, every driver/person needs a minimum of 7.5 hours of uninterrupted "rest" every day.

I would like to see a compromise that would allow us to EXTEND our day (duty window) for that other 2 hour break (or any OTHER.) I doubt it will happen though.

One thing that can't be argued is that fatal crashes have gone down since the new rules. (even with the numbers of drivers who CHEAT their HOS.)

And that WAS the point of your post, wasn't it?

The proponents of restoring "split sleeper berth" provision do not seek to extend the 11 hours, nor change the 10 hours off duty/sleeper rule. Just allow the 14 hour clock to be pushed back the amount of time it takes for a 2-3 hour nap.

While I haven't actually operated under HOS rules yet - I've done a fair amount of LD driving, where arrival times were critical (driving a 42' tour bus/RV on tour for a band). I definitely WAS NOT getting my 10 hours rest before having to move on to the next stop on the tour - but when I felt fatigued after 4 or 5 hours of driving, swapping out with a musician (yech and catching a 2 hour nap was just the ticket to prevent driving in a dangerously fatigued condition.

"Creative logging" may end up being a thing of the past if FMCSA has their way, and restoring the split provision would go a long way towards not having to falsify logs in the first place in order to get a load to destination in a timely, safe and efficient manner...

Rick

It's difficult for me to discuss this matter dispassionately. I thrived under HOS rules when we could split our time. I'm a great fan of science. I studied it for years at an engineering college. That which passes for science nowadays would have gotten a student flunked out of school before he could say "slide rule."

I could sleep and awaken without alarm clocks and never be late. I could have the freedom to pull over and park if I was gonna hit Chicago at rush hour. I could stop anytime I felt sleepy and rest, with no penalty. It's all gone now. I always managed to get stretches of eight or more hours of sleep, even if it wasn't every night. I loved the life of trucking, and always made sure I never drove while sleepy. I was always on time and always got my rest. Since October, 2005, I feel like I'm in the wrong place at the wrong time, all the time. I feel like the law is breathing down my neck.

I don't believe that truck drivers need seven or eight hours of uninterrupted sleep every night. I lived without it for years and never felt any the worse for it. In fact, I liked it. There was adventure in looking for, and taking, the opportunity to rest. When I felt like I needed more rest, I found a way, I took it. No problem.

I lost my way of life when the split sleeper berth provision was removed from HOS rules, and I'm bitter about it. The FMCSA did what they did because the judges ordered them to come up with something under an impossible deadline after the original 2003 rule change was thrown out of court, thrown out because of the meddling of people who know nothing of life on the road. Ironically, the original reasons for the court challenge, the 11th hour driving and the 34 hour restart, were ultimately upheld by the court. So in reality, the removal of the split sleeper berth provision was a stop gap measure with no rationale behind it, implemented solely to comply with a court mandate under short notice. Now we have to live with it. There was a lot of thought and a lot of time spent in formulating the original 2003 rule changes. The split sleeper berth provision was deemed worthy of remaining part of HOS regulations. If the provision was not worthy of being kept, there was every opportunity to have taken it out. Then, in 2005, the provision was removed without warning and without asking for specific and significant input from those who would be affected by the change. That is improper procedure on the part of the rule makers. Check out "bringbacktrucking.com" and read drivers' comments. The comments are being ignored by the feds because the comment opportunity was technically for soliciting comments in regard to the 11th hour and the 34 hour restart. Yet most of the comments were more passionately concerned with the loss of the split sleeper berth provision.

If the split sleeper berth provision were restored, there would be no implication that drivers could not take eight hour or ten hour breaks if they so desired. However, there are those of us who climb the walls of the truck when we are rested and yet can't go anywhere. That is stressful. Stress is not healthy.

Science? What scientist? Look at the back of a soup can or a box of stove top dressing. Listed will be the minimum daily requirements for the nutrients essential for human health. It's a crock. I'll give you the best recipe for human health in the nutrition department...disciplined under eating.

For me and many other truckers, the safe and successful delivery of freight under difficult circumstances and delivery deadlines developed into an art. I can't count the times I rolled into a receiver's lot, parked, walked to the window, and slapped down my paperwork just as the clock hit my appointment time. That's without the aid of an alarm clock, without speeding, and without worrying. It comes from years of knowing the highways, the cities, the truck, my own rest requirements, and my ability to stop when it feels right and drive when it feels right. The latter part is of utmost importance. It's an art form. Trucking for me, and many others, is a matter of turning life itself into an art. It's what made me love the life. I'm not Eric Clapton, I'm a truck driver. How would Eric Clapton be able to play beautiful guitar music if couldn't choose his songs, or the musical keys in which he plays them?

Economic disadvantage should not be underestimated in its relation to safety factors. If a driver knows he will not be able to come through for his family because HOS rules place him in a situation where pulling off the road for a needed break leads to a missed appointment, then the HOS rules are where the danger lies, and they need to be changed.

The split sleeper berth provision that we lost carried with it our right to split time 3/7...4/6...5/5...6 1/2 / 3 1/2...etc...

The way things are now, if a driver stops for 3, 4, 5, or 6 hours, it counts for nothing, HOS-wise. Unless a driver takes a full eight hours, sleep time counts for zero in the log book. Who has enough time in their lives that they can afford to throw out 3, or 4, or 5 or 6 hours several times a week, as if that time was not important?

It gets worse. If a driver has an 8 AM appointment, he has to make sure he reaches a receiver's lot by midnight or he will lose the entire next day's work, and then have to spend the entire next night going nuts in his truck. The only alternatives are speeding, to make sure to get there by midnight, or logbook falsification. I know. I've lived with the scenario. Before we lost split time, there was no problem. Arrive 2 AM, sleep for six hours, back into a door, sleep for a few more hours while unloading, look for another load, and get back to work...all legal...plenty of rest...

The way it is now? Arrive 2 AM, sleep for six hours, it doesn't count, sleep for a few more hours while unloading, it doesn't count, get signed bills at ll AM or 12 noon, begin mandatory eight hour break after being in the bunk for over eight hours and being ready to work, go crazy for the rest of the day and the rest of the night. Lose a day's work...look for another load in the morning...If it should happen on a Friday, lose a whole weekend's work.

There is one thing and one thing only that keeps a driver from going to sleep at the wheel, and that is the driver's resolve that he will not let it happen. He'll get off the road when sleepy. That's it...that's all...

There is one thing and one thing only that keeps a driver healthy, and that is the driver's resolve that he will not let anything destroy his health. He'll eat what is good for him and he'll rest when he needs rest. That's it...that's all...

Resolve...Government regulations cannot replace a driver's resolve.

Regulations can be constructed in a way to cause a driver's resolve to work against him. That's what is happening. The people who make the rules do not want a nation of men, they want a nation of compliant slaves.



stonefly

Stonefly,
While I agree with you on having multiple options for splitting sleeper berths I have to disagree with you on the driver resolve point. Just look around you while driving or at your nightly TS and you'll see lots of drivers for whom the word "resolve" means absolutely nothing and pushing themselves into exhaustion to "get a few more miles done" will become a regular and dangerous occurance. Unfortunately I believe there are too few people out there that would act as you state.

All that would serve to do is allow a driver to add a 2 hour sleeper berth break into his log whenever he needed to stretch his 14 hour clock a little further, whether he actually takes the 2 hour break or not.

Can you clarify for me how the present HOS regulations prevent or correct the scenario you describe?



stonefly

The original 2003 rule changes were the best "one size fits all" set of regulations that we were ever going to get. They were well thought out and did not interfere with a driver getting rest or getting work done.

The 2005 elimination of the split sleeper berth provision was hasty and ill conceived.

The present regulations count sleep time as work hours. That is fundamentally wrong and no good can come from it.



stonefly

The split sleeper berth provision was not eliminated. It was modified.

Do you use it?

I used to use it all the time. I can't anymore.

If you're still using it, please explain the modification to me so I can once again split my bunk time.




stonefly

The only change that was made from the 2003 rules was to require one of the periods to be at least 8 hours long. Under the old rules, one of the periods would have been at least 5 hours long, so it is simply adding 3 hours to one of the periods.

From what I understand, teams liked being able to sleep 5, drive 5, sleep 5 etc. Under the new rules, they have to sleep 8, drive 8, sleep 8, etc.

But you know what? The regs aren't going to change again anytime soon. That much is clear. So you can spend all your time lamenting their loss, or you can learn to adapt to the new regs.

I'm one of those people who tries to correct things that are wrong, through proper channels. It is a difficult and sometimes frustrating path, I can assure you.

You're probably right, the regs probably aren't going to change anytime soon, at least not for the better. Patience is called for. I'm still trying to get the split sleeper berth provision restored. I'm not making the effort solo, however. I'm in good company.

Do you drive a truck?



stonefly

Yes. And I've operated under every set of HOS regulations.

I worked on this with some other truckers. We put together a web page.

Don't you find the new regulations difficult to obey, while still getting rest and still getting your work done?



stonefly

Not exactly. He STILL cannot drive more miles than his truck speed (averaged) would allow him in 11 hours. For those with slower trucks (especially,) this would allow them to get that nap they might need and STILL get the miles they should be able to get without driving sleepy. It's the same as the old method of extending the duty window for any and all breaks.

Yes, I have at times added a two hour break I didn't take simply so that I could shut down for only 8 hours. But, I STILL had to shut down for those 8 hours of "restorative" rest before pushing on. [and usually this was because I took numerous 45 minute naps or breaks.]

The only time this really mattered to me was on days when I was more sleepy than others. I might need TWO naps. Or I might need one nap and a lunch.... or just want to sit out rush hour. But, like Stonefly... I had to push on without that extra nap to get my miles before my 14 hour "window" closed. Had I been able to extend my window, I could still only have driven the number of miles achievable within 11 hours at an average speed for my truck and the speed limits (no matter HOW many naps I took.)

Rev.Vassago said:

And this was done because the overwhelming majority of medical professionals determined and agreed (after EXTENSIVE testing and research) that the average person AND the average trucker needed between 7 and 7.5 hours of uninterrupted sleep daily to avoid a compounding affect of sleep deprivation leading to slower reaction times, lower awareness, etc.

Surely there are exceptions and you (Stonefly) might be one. But, do you want to share the road with those who are NOT?

Actually.... they can't. Driver #1 who drives 8 then sleeps 8 can then only drive 3 more hours before they have to park the truck for 2 hours because driver #2, who slept 8 then drove 8 needs another 8 and then a two.... it gets REAL screwed up real fast! I can't even explain it thoroughly! Get out a couple of grids and try it for yourself. It just doesn't work! There are a few options for "covering" for each other's naps, but it STILL ends up with the truck parked several times a day. :thumbsdown:

Although I have used the split several times while teaming, it only works for certain circumstances depending on delivery times, etc. It does NOT allow the truck to keep moving. This can ONLY be done by taking full 10 hour breaks.

Or you can learn to "adjust" your logs accordingly! ;)

No. I find the new regs to be quite manageable. I definitely like them more than the previous version (which required that the split sleeper be one period of at least 8 hours, and a second period of more than 2, but less than 10, and if you didn't get a period of more than 2, but less than 10, the 8 hour break counted toward your 14 hour clock). In the years that these regs have been in effect, I've run into very few periods of time when I was struggling to get my work done, and in those cases, it was usually due to the 70 hour clock creeping up on me.

But I absolutely LOVE the 34 hour reset (as most drivers do), and wouldn't want to go back to the pre-2003 regs because of it.

Yeah, I realized it after I posted it, but was too lazy to change it. It would have a driver running 5 hours past his 11 hour clock, as well as at least 2 hours past his 14 hour clock.

I agree with Rev. if given the choice I believe most drivers would give up the old split sleeper berth options for the 34hr reset. I know I certainly would.

Face it. We iz twuckews und we izn't smert enuff to figga oot whut Are bawdies can hundle.

Where is Dobry4U when we NEED her! :lol:

Seriously REV... no problem. Teaming is a different animal... which you have never done. I understand. Wouldn't it be nice if they had separate HOS rules for US? If they believe that 8 hours IN THE SLEEPER is good enough, then they should write rules that allow TEAMS to do just that! In MOST cases, we take a two hour break once a day to eat and shower anyway!

The ONLY "split" that works well for TEAMS is the 5 and 5. MAYBE a 6 and 5 and an "expected" meal break. The interesting thing is, that we rarely come CLOSE to the 14 hour limit! Personally.... I don't WANT to have to get up again after only 5 or 6 hours sleep and drive again!

I have ALWAYS said that the FMCSA regs were geared toward the SOLO driver. And I WILL say that when I DID get to drive Solo.... I had to work my butt off to "manage" my logbook! :lol2:

The FACT remains that there IS a "split sleeper" option available to all drivers that CAN be used efficiently (in some cases) to meet schedules while STILL ensuring a rested driver. If managed properly, it allows a driver to take a shower and eat.... AND have that time count towards the total 10 hour off duty requirement. And when all is said and done, you arrive at the SAME time as you would if you took a full 10 hour break OR if you drove/slept 5 and 5.

And as such, there is no need for any changes to the current regs in regards to the spllit sleeper provision. Sure, there are ways that it would be easier, but the current regs work (as attested by you), and they also work for the solo driver (as attested by me), so if they aren't working for someone else, it probably isn't the fault of the regs.

I've been around for long enough to have acquired a healthy suspicion with regard to all who are labeled experts. The best I ever heard is that an "expert" is somebody who's a long way from home because at home they don't let him talk.

I don't believe it. The testing and research is junk science and means nothing at all. A trucker who lives a life of splitting his bunk time and getting rest wherever he needs it probably gains faster reaction times, not slower. It's the same thing as the daily required nutrients they print on canned food. It's meaningless.

Under split sleeper berth rules, mandatory eight hour stretches of sleep are not legally required, but drivers found time to get those large blocks of sleep anyway, required or not, because they wanted them. I've been looking at this for a long time and have noticed that truck stops and rest areas fill up full at night and have been for a long time. That is because most drivers want, and get, a full night's rest whenever they can, regardless of regulations. Maybe things were different fifteen or twenty years ago, but today, drivers seek rest. They don't need regulations that categorize bunk time as work hours. Nobody needs that. It's dangerous. Sleep time is never work time. The present law is dangerously out of conformity with reality.

What is important is getting rest when needed.

The most dangerous part of the mandatory eight hour sleep break is the part that counts blocks of bunk time shorter than eight hours as a driver's working hours. That is an insane bit of legislation. No driver wants to, or can afford to, sacrifice his working hours. Therefore, in order to stay legal under the present regs, he has to skip sleep breaks and naps. Another way of stating this is that he must continue to drive when sleepy. That is the greatest danger of all and has nothing to do with "cumulative sleep deficit."

I'm not on this forum to wail about the present regs or look for sympathy because I find them difficult to live with. I'm writing about them because I'm trying to get the split sleeper berth provision restored as part of HOS regulations. I'm trying to find drivers who will continue to contact their legislators and get the present regs reversed.

Here is the gist of it: The most important, and most dangerous reality regarding the present regs is the practice of forgoing needed sleep breaks because the time counts against a driver's working hours. That dangerous aspect of the present regs trumps anything else.

Split time was part of the trucking regs for 70 years, for good reason. Good reason goes out the window these days, and not enough people do anything about. Contact your legislators.



stonefly

...falsification of the log books...

That option will be gone if EOBRs are mandated.

If EOBRs are mandated, in conjunction with the present HOS rules, we will have a new game of "who can stay awake at the wheel." The only drivers who will get the loads will be the ones who can do an 11 hour stretch without taking a break. That would be a great economic spur for all the meth labs springing up around the country.

Personally, I prefer sleep breaks to amphetamines. I think there may be among the rule makers those who have their money invested in the meth labs.



stonefly

The statistics regarding fatigue and crashes since the new rules were put in place would grossly disagree with your assessment.

No they wouldn't.



stonefly

Who are the people coming up with those statistics? The same people who made the rules?



stonefly

Yeah, it's a gubberment conspiracy. Break out the tin foil.

Prove their statistics wrong then, because at-fault truck crashes have been going DOWN year after year.

Yes they would. I have read a couple of excellent books on sleep research. Most people don't get enough.

And I think that weird sleep cycles and poor sleep quality still affect drivers in a major way. I know when I pull our tanker I'm at the mercy of our customers production schedule with random 8, 10 or 16 hour shifts. It gets my body confused by the end of the week. More than once I've slept in the parking lot after unloading even though I had the hours to get home legally. I got a horrible night of sleep in LA Friday, so I took a 3 hour nap coming home. The nap caused me to go over my 16, but I was awake & alert for the rest of the trip.

I'm not crazy about the current HOS regs, but I can make them work. In Cali we get 12 & 16, not 11 & 14, that helps a lot. The problem is that they occasionally force one to lie and thus break the law, which gives the powers that be leverage over me because I've made myself a criminal. It's a common strategy, used by countless regimes over the course of history- make laws that the average citizen will break so you can place almost anyone under the thumb of power at almost any time.

I'm not sure what I will do if we have to have EOBR's. It's a fairly common scenario dor me to run out of hours 45 minutes from home on an LA turn. What really sucks is that the closest place back on the route to get any services is Westley, which is over 2 hours. I'm not shutting down for 10 hours when I'm 45 minutes from home and I'm not shutting down 2 hours early because there's no parking or services available near where I will run out of hours.

Are you a sissy?

I mean no disrespect and am not looking for a fight Stonefly... but, I'm not sure you actually understand the new rules. NOTHING in what I said above (that you quoted) implies any "falsification" of a logbook.

More on this after I answer your other post.

I'd like to chime in, but I'm just too tired

stonefly said:

:lol::lol::lol: That's a good one.

That sounds like an opinion based on a preconcieved and desired outcome. I have actually SEEN videos of subjects trying to put pegs in holes, etc after varying sleep patterns. The camera doesn't lie. The results are clear to even the most stubborn viewer.

And how 'bout that NEWBIE out there on the road with you? You think he's had TIME to develop such an "adjusted" sleep pattern?

Under the old rules, MANY drivers claim that they kept moving thru the night after their 5 hour nap because traffic was easier. Truckstops were RARELY as crowded as they are now. The reason they are NOW is that most drivers shut down for 10 at a time, so they call it a night. I don't disagree that MOST drivers will get a full night's sleep when they can, but with the advent of Just In Time warehousing, those times are not always available. The regulations are not SO MUCH designed to penalize the driver, or make him shut down, as they are to PREVENT carriers from demanding drivers keep pushing even when they are tired.

Here is where I don't understand your viewpoint. Other than the fact that any "naps" that exceed a cumulative of 3 hours a day would reduce your "duty window of 14 hours," NONE of your sleeper berth time would count as work hours. Even when you take a two hour break for lunch it doesn't count against your 70 for the week. And ANY Sleeper berth period of at least 8 hours doesn't count against your 14 hour limit OR your 70. In fact, even a 7 hour sleeper berth break, tho it counts against your duty window, doesn't count against your 70. The 8/2 is the same as a full 10 hour break per 14 hour duty window. If you can't "manage" to stay in the sleeper for 8 hours instead of 7, YOU are the one at fault.

I agree. But the only time I NEEDED multiple naps during the day is when I had cheated my logs and NOT gotten my full 8 or 10 hour rest period.

No... it doesn't. It don't go against your 70. And... it would count as the 2 hour requirement, allowing you to "split" and only need to shut down for 8.

ONLY if he is a poor manager of his time. In fact, the NEW RULES that include the 34 hour restart have INCREASED the number of hours a driver can work/drive within 7 days... and THIS is the main reason Public Citizen and other groups oppose them.

The ONLY part of the new rules that cause this is the NONextendable 14 hour "duty window." It has NOTHING to do with the new limits on the split sleeper berth.

It would be easier to follow your argument if you would stop saying that the split sleeper berth option no longer exists. You are referring to the OLD S/B provisions. 5/5...8/2.... what's the difference really? The thing that is missing is the EXTENDABLE 15 hour duty window.

No... it doesn't. And BTW.... under the OLD rules, you had no 34 hour restart. This meant that regardless of how you split your rest time, you could only work 70 hours in 8 days. Under the NEW rules including the 34 hour provision, you can work something like 98 hours (I forget the actual number) in the same 8 days! Now.... you STILL want to go back to the good ole days?

R-i-g-h-t. The SAME reason why there were monopolies in oil, airline and other industries. The same reason why there was no minimum wage. The same reason doctors could work anytime and for as long as they wanted before operating on you. The same reason some states had no speed limits. The list goes on.

No.

As I said, prove the statistics wrong, because everything I've seen disagrees with your baseless stance.

Check this story out;

Regional pilots lack sleep, salary, experience

100K in debt for a 25K per year job?

CDL mills look wonderful in comparison.

golfhobo,

You're wrong. You're wrong about this, and I see you don't understand a thing I said. I know that you don't understand the advantage of splitting bunk time. Also, you do not realize that presently there is no split sleeper berth provision. You are trying to explain to me that I can still split my time, and that I should be having no problem. I started having big problems in October, 2005. I split my time for 7 years OTR and it became a way of life that I enjoyed. It gave me no sleep problems. I rarely hit 70 hours. I run under my own authority. I rarely get close to 3000 miles a week. I do not try to drive a lot of miles. I try to take loads that pay good rates. You do not understand. You don't. You cannot see the problem.

I don't want to go through an entire post line by line, but I'd like to start with one point of discussion.

Management of time?

The law. Once a driver starts his truck and takes a walk around it, looking things over, he has started his day. He must draw a little line on line 4. Fourteen hours later, he must stop driving. My friend, that is the law and I think you know it.

I've driven coast to coast many times. I've also spent a lot of time on the eastern seaboard. For most of my 11 years OTR, the eastern seaboard, with its 500 mile to 600 mile runs, has been my bread and butter. I pull a reefer.

I am used to backing up to a dock door and going to sleep, very often, for loading and unloading. I know the places where I might oughta' watch 'em load me and I know the places where I don't have to watch 'em load me. I like the places where I don't have to watch 'em load me because then I can lie in my bunk and sleep.

It's not unusual to sit at a dock for 2, 3, 4, or 5 hours, or perhaps longer, to get loaded, or unloaded. That's food warehouses, my friend. Perhaps you already know.

To make this simple to understand, and believe me, I wanna try and do that here, let's say it takes 3 hours to get a door and get loaded on a 600 mile run, for an 8 AM appointment the following morning. That is a standard, run of the mill, everyday, common type load.

Now, let's say pick up time was 9 AM. There is nothing unusual about that. A 9 AM pick up appointment, and a 600 mile run, for an 8 AM delivery the following morning, is not, or shouldn't be, anything that is particularly difficult to accomplish. That's 23 hours to load, drive, rest, eat, fuel, and maybe even shower.

Follow this so far. A 9 AM pick up on day one, for an 8 AM delivery the following morning, 600 miles. That is a common, bread and butter run for many truckers like myself.

The 3 hours loading is normal. I don't know what kind of trucking you do, but time spent at loading and unloading docks is part of trucking.

For a driver who obeys speed limits, I'll guarantee you that running 600 miles on the eastern seaboard is going to eat up every bit of 11 hours.

Now, my friend, 3 hours has been spent at a loading dock, and 14 minus 3 equals 11.

So you see, my friend, management of time has been removed from the hands of the man who needs it most, and if I need to explain the matter to you any further, let me know. I'll be happy to do so. For now, I choose to leave it up to your intelligence, and I know you ain't dumb.



stonefly

It's all too clear to me that your beef with the regulations has nothing to do with obtaining restorative sleep (which the new regulations certainly allow for), and everything to do with your inability to earn as much money under the new regulations.

You are using the guise of "junk science" as your scapegoat. But the facts don't support you, and no matter how much you try to ignore them, they never will.

You guys have to break out your tin foil hats? I never take mine off.

This entire thread is nothing more than "waah waah we're not making enough money so we need the gubberment to help us". Learn to adapt or get out of the game.