Another logbook question/ Recap hours.
 

Ok I just read something and how I'm confused :? , say I run out of hours on my 7th day, I would have to wait untill midnight on my 8th day to get the hours back from my 1st day? And say they where 10 hours (if I'm right) and I only drove 6 I cant roll those 4 hours onto the 9 th day? I thought that was right but from what I read it is not. :?

Re: Another logbook question/ Recap hours.
 

Let's say your 70 hours began on Monday, July 7. You would gain back any hours you drove on Monday, July 7 on Tuesday, July 15th at 12:00 AM (8 days later).

If you gained 10 hours on your 8th day, and you only used 6 of those 10, the extra 4 hours rolls over onto the 9th day. If you were gaining 10 hours on day 9, you would have 14 hours available.

Yes I believe you have it right. If you run 10 hours a day for 7 days on the 8th day you will have no hours until the next day, then you will have 10 from the 1st day. If you only use 6 then the following day you will pick up another 10 plus the 4 left over. However, if you use up all your hours in 7 days and your going to sit around all day on the 8th day you're pretty much going to be doing a 34 hour restart anyways unless you're really crunched for time. In my way of doing things I run hard all week, 11-12 hour days, then when Thursday or Friday rolls around I hope for a weekend run that delivers on Monday but is the right mileage that I can run real hard and get there Saturday night then lounge around doing a 34 hour restart until my load delivers Monday morning. The 8.75 hours each day thing generally doesn't work out here. Too much going on, too many places to be unless you have a set run. 8) 8)

Ok that is what I thought , I read somewhere that my hours would not roll over but I either read it wrong or something.

Remember though, if you hit the magic 70 hours mark, you MUST take the 34 hour reset. Make sure you shut down at 69.75 if you have roll over hours to work with!

Ummmm......No.

There is no requirement that says you must take a 34 hour reset.

Most newer drivers would be in DEEP DO DO if and when the DOT gets rid of the 34hr reset. I never had one and always had to watch my hours near the end of the 8 day stretch. That is one of the things PATT wants out of the new regs when they are written. Think about it you have 14 to work so in 5 days out of hours and then reset on the night of the 5th one and then 6th one. 7th day have a fresh 70 and over the next 2 days you can work 28 more which in my books makes you more tired than before in terms of HOURS WORKED. Of course the ATA is against removing the 34 hour reset why means they can force more work into the same stretch when we use to have only 70.

I never had trouble making money with the old system yet everyone hated it we had more flexiblity than the current one NO 14 hour clock before a shutdown and the 34 hour reset WTF was that we had to actually use math and figure out how many hours we did have and communicate that to dispatch instead of just taking a reset. BTW that system lasted close to 70 YEARS before the ATA got the 1st rewrite what are they on now the 3rd and still it does not pass muster in the court system.

Are you sure about that? Say I go 70 hours then how long do I have to sit before I can do another 70 hours?

Positive.

If you use up all 70 hours within 8 days, you must wait as long as it takes for hours to start dropping off.

Let's say you ran 8.75 hours per day for 8 days. You'd have 70 hours in 8 days. On day 9, you would gain back 8.75 hours from day 1. On day 10, you'd gain back 8.75 hours from day 2. And so on, and so forth. 34 hour resets are never, and have never been, mandatory.

Interesting, because according the the Fedral Motor Carriers Safety Administration it says


May not drive after 60/70 hours on duty in 7/8 consecutive days.
A driver may restart a 7/8 consecutive day period after taking 34 or more consecutive hours off duty.

http://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/rules-regul...s/HOS-2005.htm

A driver MAY restart a 7/8 consecutive day period after taking 34 or more consecutive hours off duty. :wink:

Or the driver can keep on driving and get put out of service by DOT.

Funny thing is I have seen this happen.

There is no such thing as running more then 70 hours without taking a 34 hour.

Our company has had drivers put out of service for running more then 70 hours without a 34.

So yes you may begin another 70 hour week after a 34 hour but then again you can take a 48 hour or what ever you wish. The way it was explained to me by ND DOT and SD DOT and Iowa DOT and Mn DOT along with MO DOT is that there is a minimum of a 34 that must be taken before you can start another 70 hour week.

Ok then, how does someone legally gain back hours from the first day?

I know that the 14 hour daily clock does not stop unless you stop for 8 hours or more.

I know that I can have a total of 70 hours of working time while in the truck and that I need to take a break after said 70 hours.

Dot has told me that I need to take a minimum of 34 hours after putting in a 70 hour week.

But then can dot officers from so many states be wrong on this?

I know one driver very well, and he was put out of service. He worked his 70, stopped for a 10 and tried going back to work again, got stopped and checked and was put OOS for 34 hours.

The runs we do run right on the edge of 11 hours total driving time then add pti and fueling along with loading and unloading and it comes to over 12 hours a day if things go good. Many times I am pushing hard against the 14 hour clock.

So if I am lucky I run out of hours in about 6 days but most of the time I am out in 5 days with only a couple hours to spare.

the Rev is right.
I know several drivers that never take 34 hr breaks because they like working a short day 8.75hrs and they are out for 3-4 weeks before extended home time.

1 jan 8.75
2 jan 8.75
3 jan 8.75
4 jan 8.75
5 jan 8.75
6 jan 8.75
7 jan 8.75
8 jan 8.75
9 jan 8.75
10 jan 8.75

If you add up the 1thru8 of jan you have 70 hrs, or if you add up 2-9 jan.
at the end of your 8th day you hit 70hrs then you go to bed. and wake up to a new day counting it and the 7days before you have 8 days with only61.25 hrs total, now if you work longer on one day you have to shorten the next to keep this rhythm going or vice versa

Rat: I am not trying to be "flippant" here. But, it is obvious that you don't understand the HOS regs. No shame.... MANY new drivers don't! Before WE go through it all again, how about scrolling down through this and earlier pages on this subforum and click on EVERY thread about HOS?

Can several DOT officers be wrong? Yes.... they can. Can ALL of us truckers on this site be wrong? NO.... we can't! But.... there are MANY on here who don't/didn't understand the HOS.... and it has ALL been explained many times before. DO THE RESEARCH on our previous threads, and then IF you still don't understand.... one of us will go through it all over again for you. That's part of what we DO here! :wink:

Always here. Always willing to help.

Hobo

Awwww...... Isn't that nice..... The blind leading the blind..... :lol:

Never doubt me when it comes to HOS. I am always right. You cannot drive more than 70 hours in an 8 day period. On day 9, you gain back the hours you worked on day 1. A 34 hour reset will wipe the slate clean, but it is not mandatory that you take a 34 hour reset at any point. If you run out of your 70 hours, you have two options: Either wait for your 8 day clock to catch up, or take a 34 hour reset.

DAM#!! I'm nowhere NEAR a pickle park! How did this pervert FIND me! Get him OFF me! EWWW!!!

Ok, well the runs we do take up most of a 14 hour day including PTI, loading, fueling and unloading. So we always burn up 70 hours in 5 to 6 days. That is why we need to take a 34 hour. It is that or wait till Day 9 so we can get some time back.

I quess even when I was running my own rig I worked 12 to 14 hour days all the time.

I have never had the option of only working less then 9 hours a day.

You can only drive 11 hours a day so you're running illegal every day at that rate. If you do 70 hours in 5 days that means your driving 14 hours a day.

I think only Rev knows the rules without thinking. I just keep driving until I get caught then I do the reset at the scales. Much easier that way. I don't have to think.

According to Texas DPS Trooper Monte Dial who speaks on the Sirius Radio show Loading Dock quite often and several other DOT officers who I have heard on the radio what was said is true, you can roll over your hours IF you have not gone over or hit the 70 hour point however if you hit 70 you must refresh it with a 34 hour break regardless of how many days. This is one of the problems with our Hours of Service regulations, there are too many ways to interpret them and no one source you can contact for clarification!

An example is the personal conveyance exemption allowance for using your commercial vehicle to go get food, lodging, etc. Some officers say you must be bobtail with no trailer but the regs do not say that. Some claim you must be an owner operator but the regs don't say that.

We definitely need FMCSA to clarify a lot of our regs but if they do, we probably won't like what the way they do it!!

No, 70 hours of total unduty time. We have to long 30 min for pretrip and postrip inspections as per company rules. Then you have loading times of an hour or so and unloading times of an hour or so. So that is about 3 hours of on duty time that must be logged as per comampany rules.

We get a ticket at the loading docks that is stamped with arrival time and leaving time.

You could theoretically use up 70 hours in less than 3 days, assuming you never went off duty. Using up 70 hours in 5 days isn't impossible, or even hard. In that situation, a 34 hour reset makes more sense, but again, is not a requirement.


Well, yeah. If you've gone over your 70 hours, there's nothing left to roll over, now is there? :lol:

You are misinterpreting what they said. Many times, a 34 hour reset will occur while you are waiting for hours to come back. Let's say, like the example given by rat, that you used up all your hours in 5 days. If you waited for your hours to come back, you would have to wait 3 more days. In that time, you'd end up getting a 34 hour reset anyway.

It is possible to go indefinitely without ever taking a 34 hour reset. As long as you constantly have hours coming back to you every day, you will likely never have to take a reset. The best example, which I gave already, was a driver who worked 8.75 hours per day, every day. That driver would hit 70 hours every night, and gain back 8.75 hours every morning. They could go on forever like that and always be legal.

I don't know If Ol' Blue is wrong or not. I'm inclined to believe he SAID the right thing and you may have misunderstood him. However, IF he said it exactly as you quoted him.... he is WRONG.

The FMCSA interprets their OWN rules fairly well. And they CLEARLY state 1) that if you go over your 70, you are ONLY required to be OOS for the time necessary to bring you back into compliance. This would normally consist of a 10 hour break PLUS waiting for your hours to come back to you from the 8th day back. Now.... IF you burned your 70 in 5 days, having been OFF duty the 3 days prior, you would not HAVE any hours to "get back," for several days, and in THAT case.... you would ONLY be required to take a 34 hour restart to get moving again.

They also CLEARLY state, 2) that the length or combination of vehicles/trailers has NO BEARING on the "status" of a CMV as being "unladen" and therefore available to be used as a personal conveyance.

I don't have time to look up the regs/interpretations/guidance right now. But, I've read through this many times, and will cite them for you if you think "I" didn't understand them properly.

And for NotSteve..... that came right out of my memory. Your "slight" against me, Rawlco, and a FEW others, is duly noted. :wink:

The language:

May not drive after 60/70 hours on duty in 7/8 consecutive days.

A driver may restart a 7/8 consecutive day period after taking 34 or more consecutive hours off duty.

The link:

http://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/rules-regul...ochure2005.htm

It's not "may or may not" in either case. You reset at 70, no ifs, ands or buts.

The poster who recommended you stop the clock at 69.75 to keep your 70 alive is correct. The only way you can recapture your day 1 hours on day 9 is to have left time (not be at 70) on day 8.

That's unless a friend who just told me it's 69 even is correct. Her theory is anything more than 69 is out of HOURS. I think she's nuts and I side with 69.75, or less.

"May not drive after . . 70 hours on duty in . . 8 consecutive days." Has but one meaning:

At the time you reach 70 within 8, you are done with lines 3 + 4 until you complete 34 consecutive hours on lines 1 and/or 2

"A driver may restart a . . 8 consecutive day period after taking 34 or more consecutive hours off duty." has a dual meaning:

1. It is your only remedy for reaching 70 hours in 8 (or fewer) days

2. You can reset at anytime prior to reaching 70 and restart your 8 consecutive days.

Rev, Ironeagle, TK, ct77, golfhobo, NotSteve . . go stand in the corner and face the wall . . the rest of you come join me at the bar.

Case closed.
Jury dismissed.
Next case.

On an unrelated matter; does anyone know the square root of 69?
I'm no mathematician but I think it's around 8 something . .

Nothing says you have to do a restart if you hit 70 hours !!!! You could hit 70 hours on the 7th day at let's say 23:00. Then you would only have to wait 25 hours before you would pick up hours from day 1 and you could drive again. Nothing says that a 34 hour restart is mandatory if you accumulate 70 hours. Stopping at 69.75 doesn't do a damn thing. It' up to you whether you do a restart or wait for hours to come back. You can run it to 70 on the 8th day and the next day you pick up the hours from day 1.

Ok, in your explanation, you would get back the hours from day 1 on the 9th day. Well if you onlu used 8 or so hours on day one then that is all you would get to use on day nine. Day ten you would only get back the hours you used on day 2 and so on and so forth.

So if day 9 came and you had a 9 or 10 hour day infront of you to complete your run then this would mean that you could not complete your run because you would only have those hours that you used on day one. Correct.


Now the thing that bothers me is that I made a call to the FMCSA yesterday to backup this 34 hour restart. According to them you must take a 34 hour no matter if you run out of hours on day 5 or day 8.

The reason they stated is so that a driver has atlest 2 nights and one day of rest before starting another tour of duty (8 day/70 hour week).

So any driver caught driving on day nine or driving after doing a 70 tour without a 34 restart would be in violation.

I don't know but maybe there is a huge mixup somewere pertaining to this topic.

I am not going to get into split berthing as that is a mess all of its own. Bassically, don't do it if you need a full 11 hour driving day along with 3 hours of onduty ahead of you.

Oh my dear lord. :roll:

You do realize what the difference between "may" and "will" is, don't you? Under no circumstances, at any time EVER, is a 34 hour reset mandatory. Period. End of discussion. Case closed. Blah blah blah.

If you want to prove me wrong, post a reg that states that a driver must take a 34 hour reset. Otherwise shut up. Please.

If I reach 70 hours at 11:59 pm on day 8, I gain back all my hours from day 1 at 12:00 am on day 9 (one minute later). Period. End of discussion. Case closed.

This subject has been beaten to death both here and in other places already. The 34 hour reset is not mandatory.

Here's some documentation to support it from several sources:

http://www.witruck.org/Final_rule_HOS.htm

http://driversmag.com/rules_regs/fle...oursofservice/

http://blogdg.ctl.ca/2007/09/us_cour...e_ruling_.html

I hope I don't need to post a definition of the word "voluntary".

Now stop the damn misinformation in this thread already. :roll:

Ya know. I don't think any of this really matters since only a few of us (NOT ME) could argue a case in our own defense when confronted with a situation where a DOT official says you are out of hours!

It's too bad that the person in charge couldn't read this and every other thread associated with HOS.

Sorry, Bigtimba..... those of us you sent to the corner, are now at the corner BAR drinking a beer on YOUR tab!! YOU are going back one grade in school for flunking English! :lol: :lol:

First, let's start with basic English. May only has one meaning. That you CAN do something if you WANT to.... but are not REQUIRED to do it.

May NOT has only ONE meaning.... that you CANNOT do it legally.

Ever play the game of "mother may I?" You ask her if you MAY. If she answers NO... you MAY NOT... you can't MOVE. If she answers Yes, you MAY.... it means you are ALLOWED to move.... but not REQUIRED to move.

Now.... if you change that word to SHALL, you will be COMPELLED to move if she tells you that YOU SHALL... and cannot move if she says YOU SHALL NOT. The correlation here is that MAY and SHALL mean a nearly oppposite thing when used without NOT. However, they mean exactly the SAME thing when used WITH "not."

So.... if you have reached 70 hours in 8 days, you MAY NOT nor SHALL not move until you EITHER take a 34 hour restart... OR... gain back hours at midnight that night IF you have any to gain.

Conversely, if you burn your 70 hours in less than 8 days, you MAY take 34 hours off and start all over even if you've only been working for 5 days or so, but.... NO ONE is telling you that you SHALL take a 34 hour restart before driving again. You MAY also sit on your arse and WAIT for the 9nth day and get back ONLY the hours from day 1 that have now been DEDUCTED from the 70 that you've used. But, again... NO ONE is telling you that you SHALL have to take the 34 hour reset, nor that you SHALL wait until day 9..... UNTIL or UNLESS the current rules are finally struck down which would ELIMINATE the 34 hour reset option and then, if you burn 70 in 5 days..... YOU SHALL have to and WILL have to wait until day 9!

Although I agree that the FMCSA sometimes is confusing, in THIS case THEY are using the right terminology with the CORRECT definitons. YOU are the one that is misinterpreting the definiton of MAY.

In summation... You MAY take the 34 hour reset (as they say... at ANY time... you might even have used only 50 hours... to get a NEW 70 hour tour of duty.) OR you MAY wait until you have hours to get back from day 1 .... which won't be until day 9.

But, IF you have burned your 70 in less than 8 days, you MAY not drive again until you've done ONE or the OTHER in my last sentence.

Futhermore... there is NO advantage to stopping at 69.75 hours. You're just wasting 15 minutes. IF you are on day 8, you will get hours back at midnight (if you worked on the 8th day back,) if you are on day 6 or 7, you will not get ANY hours back at midnight, and would only have 15 mins to DRIVE the next day... although you COULD work on line 4.

I'm sorry if this is a bit confusing..... but all our attempts at a SIMPLE explanation seem to have gone over a few heads here! :lol:

Totally false and without foundation in the regs!

NO, he's NOT. You are allowed to drive/work combined EVERY last friggin minute of your 70 within 8 days. After that.... you can even WORK the rest of that day if you want.. (making it say... 80 hours!) You just can't DRIVE! There is NO penalty or violation for this. At midnight, you will get back whatever hours you WORKED (combined) on day 1... and you can DRIVE only 11 for that day as long as you HAVE them. You might get back 16 hours that day if you drove 11 and worked another 5 on day 1. However, you can still only DRIVE 11 of them...... and here's the kicker..... only THAT many if your NEW total of 70 hours DRIVING in the last 8 doesn't exceed 70. It is entirely possible that you WORKED more hours and drove less on day 1, so that NOW, when you recap lines 3 and 4 separately for the last 8 days, you may have STILL driven closer to 70, and therefore you might NOT be able to drive the whole 11 on day 9.... IF it would mean that you STILL had DRIVEN more than 70 in the last 8 days! :shock:

Truth is.... you are BOTH "nuts!" :lol: :lol:

Correct!

But.... THIS ain't it!! :roll: This is totally false on more than ONE basis! You are NOT "done" with line 4 at all.... and you do NOT have to take 34 hours off IF you have hours to gain at midnight!

No.... it doesn't! #1 is totally false! #2 is the ONLY true statement you have made.... and "MAY" does NOT mean "SHALL."

What that reg MEANS.... is that you don't HAVE to live off the hours you'll gain back each night. You MAY say "that's not gonna keep me rolling well enough.... I think, since I'm out of hours at 2 a.m. on my 8th day, and I'm ONLY gonna gain..say... 5 hours from day 1.. IF I SIT HERE ALL DAY... !!

I think I'll just shut down the REST of today (22 hours) and sleep thru tomorrow night (12 hours) and start with a FRESH "tour of duty" at NOON on day 9!! I'll then have a fresh 70, fresh 11, and fresh 14!! That will allow me to drive until 11 pm on day 9 and reach my shipper, whereas.... I couldn't GET there with only 5 hours!!!

Sorry.... NOT happening! The case is closed.... but YOU lost! :lol:

You want to discuss advanced Trucker math.... and you haven't even masterd simple ENGLISH yet??? :shock: :roll: :lol: :lol:

Besides, square roots have nothing to do with how many hours a day one can work without busting his 70 hour clock. That has been established as being EXACTLY 8.75 hours. But, it is not related to the square root of 70 (or 69) and in fact could NOT be unless we were allowed 76.56 hours a week! But.... I guess you were just WONDERING! :lol: :lol:

However.... you are close. Don't feel like grabbing the calculator at the moment, but 8 is the square root of 64..... and 2 is the square root of 4. That might INDICATE something close to 8.2.... because 3 is the root of 9. And 64 + 9 = 73. HOWEVER.... it doesn't WORK that way as 8.3 squared is actually closer to 68.9 not 73. So.... the answer would be something like 8.3XX! :lol: :lol:

BTW...... thanks for the beer! :wink:

The Rev would not make this mistake, I'm sure. But, the Rev quoted somebody who did.

This is the ONE case where I have found that the FMCSA used the wrong word. It does NOT have to be consecutive. The word is (and they LATER used) COMBINED. (as in split sleeper exemption.)

I THINK I know where this misinformation comes from, but it is totally false and untenable. That also means.... it makes no sense! :roll:

They may only have to equal 10 hours, but ONE of them has to be at least 8. Splitting S/B does not work as a rule for team driving anymore. Although, I HAVE split MY half of the day many times.... but, it would not match up with my codriver's schedule if we were just making miles! (and of course..... it wouldn't equal HALF a day!)

I have no other problems with the Rev's post at this current time! :lol:

Since none of those things have anything to do with the subject at hand, what is your point in bringing them up? :roll:

Well, since I have your approval, I can go die now.

Tha is easy the REGS on HOS have changed so many times in the last couple years and the current ones are ON THE WAY OUT do to a court challenge. The Saftey Depts have no clue which ones the FMCSA is using at that time.

Maybe in your fantasy world where your family is part of firing squads, advisers to Presidents, and ping pong balls are hauled unpackaged, but in the really real world, the regs haven't changed in three years.

ROFLMAO

Yeah right. The only job these "saftey" (sic) departments have is to make sure their drivers are compliant. They know the regs, even if these drivers don't. :roll: