Violations... (HELP)
 

So last Friday my employer decided to give me a 4 stop route which I TOLD them could NOT be completed within my 14hrs!!! SO.... they say, "well mapquest says its only a 11 hr. round trip"! I just stood there and laughed!!! I said yeah, in a car, without construction, without dock/load/unload times, and in a perfect world... :roll: Well they say, just do your best. So, I started at 6am and returned to the yard at 9:15pm... a 15.25hr day! Did I log it...... damn right I did! Why? Because.... I feel more comfortable running legal! Anyways, today I get a letter from the company stating I'm in violation of 2 rules, those being the 11 hour driving rule 395.3(a) and the 14 hour on duty rule 395.3b!!! They "demand" a full explanation from me in writing, along with my full signature/date/ect..... so that a "determination" for said violations can be made!!!

My question is simply this.... what should I do? I did work the 15.25hrs, to the T, exactly as it was logged! So, is there a "good" excuse that covers my butt I could use.... other then I TOLD YOU SO??? Any help would greatly be appreciated, thanks!!!

The only thing I can think of is did they tell you in person to do your best or did they send it over the computer system message thing to do your best. Not that this would help but anytime I have several stops in one day I send a message that I don't believe it is possible and then when my 14 stops, I STOP! No matter what. I called safety and they told me to not log stuff on duty which is crap but it was on a weekend. I asked them if they were going to pay my ticket for me. They said no. From then on everything was over the computer system and they had to deadhead someone to finish the pickup . The deadhead was only 30 miles away but they gave me all kinds of crap about it. I told them when I hit 14 hours, I hit 14 hours. period. they cannot legally do a thing about that. Good luck.

This was all verbal. But I am wondering what "could" come from this???

When and if you get red lighted at a scale ( you know what a scale is ??) or your company gets a DOT audit you will be cited.

Re: Violations... (HELP)
 

Is your drive time 11 hours or under? If so, then you ARE NOT in violation. Since you return to the yard everyday, then you have used what is called the "short haul expemtion". Once ever seven days, you can log 16 hours, provided that you did not go over 11 hours driving.

It is in the regs, under "short haul exemption".

Re: Violations... (HELP)
 

unkut, what I meant was.

if you had it on the computer system, what transpired as opposed to over the phone or in person verbal, you would have a record that you could show your company. Now that record of the conversation would not get you out of a ticket IF you were cited, but it might help with the internal company investigation as to why you drove over your alloted time. Sometimes I even confuse myself when I write stuff.

Well you just learned a hard lesson. Who is ultimately in charge of your log? YOU! The next time this or any other employer wants you to go beyond your HOS, tell them to put it in writing. But you should have stood your ground and told them to pay for a hotel(if you don't have a sleeper) or you wouldn't take the load.

Re: Violations... (HELP)
 

Logging an illegal act does not make it legal, only accurate. You are still in violation.

So basically I F'd up..... but you think the company wants me to fill out this paper to cover their butts? Oh, and you are allowed to keep only the previous 7 days logs???

While you may be at risk for a fine for six months, or longer depending on how long your company retains log sheets, I would not loose any sleep over it unless you make a habit of violating the HOS. When the DOT comes in to a company and does an audit they tend to overlook the occasional screw up by a driver but will get really PO'd if they start to see a pattern to it.

As far as the form your company wants you to fill out, yes it is something of a CYA effort on their part. This way they can say, if it is brought up in an audit, that they are making efforts to comply and make sure their drivers comply with all FMCSA regs. Of course, once again, if a drivers starts collecting these things then it may lead to termination, but a few over a long period of time usually is not a big issue at any company.

You are not in violation. You are allowed one 16 hr work day within a 7 day period. if you use the 16 hr exception to get you back to the yard it is legal. Also you like Is stated before it can only be done one time in a seven day stretch. I used a 16 hr day once a week when I was with Sysco.


http://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/rules-regul...#_Toc111021253

Read this, It may make more sense. Good luck

Is it me, or does Unkut have a new crisis every other day!

Unkut, it has been advised to many others and myself, that you need to find a different company to work for! Over the last several weeks there has been one issue after another that you have posted. It seems to me, that your company is either totally outlaw or this stuff does not actually happen.

You are the ultimate and soul responsible person in the operation of your commercial motor vehicle. If, you keep running illegal, and an accident occurs in which a serious injury or death occurs. You will be spending many years in jail, no doubt about that. The law will go back as far as they wish to see you past logs, compare them to fuel, toll, weight and other time stamped documents, and if they do not match, you will never be able to justify you logs or what you have done.

If, in fact, your company is requiring you to run illegal, then they too will be fined and possibly have their operating authority revoked. But, You will be the one behind bars.

If, in fact, all this stuff over the last several weeks have occured, I would highly suggest that you heed the advice of those on this board, that have given you excellent advice, and find another company or line of work! If these things are not happening, then post your questions with a hypothetical disclaimer such as, " Hypothetically, if this were to happen, what would you do?" That way, you are not eventually tagged as the "Boy who cried wolf!"

Good luck!

You are required to keep the current day and the 7 previous days. You are allowed to keep as many days as you want, but they are subject to review and possible tickets. It is wise to keep only what is required by law.

what's weird is he will pose a question like he has been driving for a week and knows nothing. then someone else will pose a question and he will answer it like he has been driving for 20 years. I think he just likes to post..

I swear that I said the same thing. Thank you IBAMARS for the back up and posting the link.

Honestly I think they set you up. Sounds really fishy to me. I can't think of any reason they would do that to you other than to hang yourself and send you packing. I hope I'm wrong but it looks that way to me.

That is basically what I am thinking! Something is not right!

From what I have been taught, and understand from reading the regs, his situation does not fall under the adverse conditions rule. Also, it does not fall under the short haul provisions either. The 16 hour provision cannot be used by OTR drivers, only the 2 hour extension for adverse conditions, such as weather.

His employer, if this is a real situation, deliberately set him up on and impossible run.

Go back through the archives, and you will find many post from unkut that just do not add up. I think his very first one, was a run he went on without a log book, was stopped at the scales, and then let go. A little fishy too me.

Anyhow, if his employer is actually doing that stuff to him, he needs to find a new job.

Re: Violations... (HELP)
 

Does not the "short haul exemption" limit a driver to a 150 air-mile radius?

Silly me! here is the answer to that question, and unkut did not meet the specification in this situation.
HOS Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ)
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August 19, 2005



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Table of Contents



C. SHORT-HAUL OPERATIONS


General Questions

C-1. What is a "short-haul" operation?
The HOS regulations do not specifically define or use the term "short haul" except as a caption for § 395.1(e), which includes requirements for drivers using the 100 air-mile radius exception and those covered by the "non-CDL, as defined in Part 383, 150 air-mile radius" provision.

C-2. What is an "air-mile"?
The term "air-mile" is internationally defined as a "nautical mile" which is equivalent to 6,076 feet. Thus, the 100 air-miles are equivalent to 115.08 statute miles, and 150 air-miles are equivalent to 172.6 statute miles.

UNKUT claims to be a local driver. As for his employer, I think that they need to hire someone that understands DOT regs and UNKUT needs to sit down and read them himself.

I don't know all the facts and so I can't say that he was pushed by his employer or he made a mistake. I usually tend to lean on the drivers side more often than a companies. that being said I agree with an earlier post. The thing the driver needed to say was NO. I don't have the hours. And No I can't run, once my 14 is up. Saying NO is something every driver must be able to do. When to say it is sometimes hard to figure out though.

[quote="Double RUNKUT claims to be a local driver. As for his employer, I think that they need to hire someone that understands DOT regs and UNKUT needs to sit down and read them himself.[/quote]

I have run local also, and local for us was anywhere in the Central, South or East Texas and Southwestern Louisiana, up to a 600 mile round trip with a 70 mph truck. :lol:

We will see how this plays out, still sounds fishy!

he also said something about getting a warning at the scales and then later claimed he didnt know what the scales were and if he needed to stop at them. I think he is just having fun, it's harmless anyway.

I think unkut2003 is a DOT Officer and testing us to see if we drivers know whats happening!!!! :lol:

naw, I think a DOT officer would hit us with more relevant and real life situations!

I think Unkut is highly entertaining I especially like the post about alley parking something somewhere. I still use that line with my husband when he ticks me off. :lol: Though is would be my mini van.

After researching my options, I've decided I'll just claim the 16 Hour Exception, and pray they let it slide??? Other then that, I have no other explanation! Heres what I read about the rule, and also what I'll include with my statement.....

16-hour Exception - A property-carrying CMV driver may extend the 14-hour on-duty period by 2 additional hours once every 7 days if they:


Have been released from duty at their normal work reporting location for the previous 5 duty tours;

Are released from duty at their normal work reporting location within 16 hours after coming on duty following 10 consecutive hours off duty; and

Have not taken this exemption within the previous 6 consecutive days, except following a 34-hour restart of a 7/8-day period.


And to inform the curious, I'm just a normal driver that has ran a sideloader and 53ft. van for over 5 1/2 years for Coke. I was ALWAYS local, thus never needed to log, or pass a scale! SO, please don't flame me or hang me for my lack of knowledge. I'm learning as fast as I can.... day by day! I will pick up a current copy of the HOS/DOT Regs and study them in hopes to prevent further situations like these! Thanks for all the help and info too.... its really been beneficial to me! Oh, and to all the "Super Truckers", that laugh and smirk at the others, accept my apology for my mother NOT giving birth to me in a truck, giving me a DOT book instead of Cat In The Hat, play with drop+hooks instead of riding a bike, ect.... You truly are the pros and nobody will ever in a single lifetime find the time/arrogance to dispute that!!!

Sittin on the couch, watchin the 3 lil' rugrats while their mom gets some rest. We spent the weekend at the Kalahari Waterpark Resort in Sandusky, OH... :D First family event in roughly 4-5 years... :shock: So needless to say we didn't get much rest at all! Plus the wife had a severe stomach ache, nausia, and the rest of the don't care to mention stuff, haha! All that led to not much sleep! But to be a little more specific, I'm looking on the FMCSA site for info, but its a little rough. I'd like to just get the handbook mentioned before, that way EVERYTHING is available at my fingertips.... when I need it!!! Why?

i just wondered what kind of driving you were currently doing, your employer should give you a regs book, or you can get it at any truckstop

Oh, hahaha!!! Well welcome to my weekend anyways!!! I'm doing routes from an hour drive, up to 5ish hours 1 way. For instance, tomorrow I have a Toledo, OH to Dearborn, MI run which is roughly an hour 1 way, then a driver assisted unload which usually runs 2 hours or so, then another hourish back. Tuesday I have another Indy, IN run to Stephen Gould, live unload, and back..... this is usually a 11+ hour day.... driving the speedlimit of course... :wink:

As long as your line 3 is 11 or under, then you should be ok.

I'll know for sure tomorrow when I get the book in front of me, but I wanna say it was 11.25hrs drivin, and another 5hrs of on duty... :?

If it is 11.25 driving, then you are in violation and cannot claim the sixteen hour rule. If that is right, then I would have shut the truck down and called the company and tell that that:
A)They send someone out to drive the truck and you home
or
B)Who inform them that you are getting a motel room for the night at thier expense and that you would be in after you ten hour break.
16.25 hours for the day. You are in violation of both the 11/14 and could not even use the sixteen rule. You have to be under 11 hours on line 3 to use it and cannot have a total past 16 hours.

It figures...... when it rains it pours! Sowhat do you feel my would be in my best intrests??? What should I write in the explanation section of the paperwork my company wants submitted???

Honestly, tell them that you screwed up at that next time you run out of hours and cannot make it back to the yard, that they can either send another drive out to get the truck and you or they can pay for a motel for the night.
Next time you know that you will not make it back in the time alloted, call and inform your company and give them those two options. If they are a good company and resepct the drivers, then you should be ok. If they tell you to drive back anyways, find another company to drive for.