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Log book question......
I've heard you have a 75 mile radius around your base to haul without a log book. Is this correct? If so, what do I need to put in the log book on the days I'm running locally? Thanks, Phillip
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It is 100 miles unless your state has a different rule for intrastate.
In order to not use a log book you must have some sort of time record kept at the office of the hours worked. Also just because you are not using a log book you are still subject to the hours of service. Also you must report back to your work reporting location at the end of the day. As far as using a log book one day and not the next, on the days you do not use a log book just write in local work in the remarks section and log the time worked on line 4. |
Yes, 100 mile radius as long as you start and end your workday at the same location.
I am sure that our so called " log expert " will be along to give wrong info about this. Stay tuned. |
I thought they changed this to a 150 mile air radius? :?
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Originally Posted by Rev.Vassago
I thought they changed this to a 150 mile air radius? :?
Drivers of property-carrying CMVs which do not require a Commercial Driver's License for operation and who operate within a 150 air-mile radius of their normal work reporting location: |
Actually, the other driver at the company who's CDL was grandfathered in said 75miles. A good friend of mine said 150miles. I wasn't sure who to believe.
Guess it's 150. -Phillip |
Originally Posted by Dawn
Originally Posted by Rev.Vassago
I thought they changed this to a 150 mile air radius? :?
Drivers of property-carrying CMVs which do not require a Commercial Driver's License for operation and who operate within a 150 air-mile radius of their normal work reporting location: |
Originally Posted by Kentuckydiesel
Originally Posted by Dawn
Originally Posted by Rev.Vassago
I thought they changed this to a 150 mile air radius? :?
Drivers of property-carrying CMVs which do not require a Commercial Driver's License for operation and who operate within a 150 air-mile radius of their normal work reporting location: |
Looks like 150 if the vehicle doesn't require a CDL
100 if it is a CDL vehicle, and the employer must keep time records. (e) Short-haul operations. (e)(1) 100 air-mile radius driver. A driver is exempt from the requirements of §395.8 if: (e)(1)(i) The driver operates within a 100 air-mile radius of the normal work reporting location; (e)(1)(ii) The driver, except a driver-salesperson, returns to the work reporting location and is released from work within 12 consecutive hours; (e)(1)(iii)(A) A property-carrying commercial motor vehicle driver has at least 10 consecutive hours off duty separating each 12 hours on duty; (e)(1)(iii)(B) A passenger-carrying commercial motor vehicle driver has at least 8 consecutive hours off duty separating each 12 hours on duty; (e)(1)(iv)(A) A property-carrying commercial motor vehicle driver does not exceed 11 hours maximum driving time following 10 consecutive hours off duty; or (e)(1)(iv)(B) A passenger-carrying commercial motor vehicle driver does not exceed 10 hours maximum driving time following 8 consecutive hours off duty; and (e)(1)(v) The motor carrier that employs the driver maintains and retains for a period of 6 months accurate and true time records showing: (e)(1)(v)(A) The time the driver reports for duty each day; (e)(1)(v)(B) The total number of hours the driver is on duty each day; (e)(1)(v)(C) The time the driver is released from duty each day; and (e)(1)(v)(D) The total time for the preceding 7 days in accordance with §395.8(j)(2) for drivers used for the first time or intermittently. (e)(2) Operators of property-carrying commercial motor vehicles not requiring a commercial driver’s license. Except as provided in this paragraph, a driver is exempt from the requirements of §395.3 and §395.8 and ineligible to use the provisions of §395.1(e)(1), (g) and (o) if: (e)(2)(i) The driver operates a property-carrying commercial motor vehicle for which a commercial driver’s license is not required under part 383 of this subchapter; (e)(2)(ii) The driver operates within a 150 air-mile radius of the location where the driver reports to and is released from work, i.e., the normal work reporting location; (e)(2)(iii) The driver returns to the normal work reporting location at the end of each duty tour; (e)(2)(iv) The driver has at least 10 consecutive hours off duty separating each on-duty period; (e)(2)(v) The driver does not drive more than 11 hours following at least 10 consecutive hours off duty; (e)(2)(vi) The driver does not drive: (e)(2)(vi)(A) After the 14th hour after coming on duty on 5 days of any period of 7 consecutive days; and (e)(2)(vi)(B) After the 16th hour after coming on duty on 2 days of any period of 7 consecutive days; (e)(2)(vii) The driver does not drive: (e)(2)(vii)(A) After having been on duty for 60 hours in 7 consecutive days if the employing motor carrier does not operate commercial motor vehicles every day of the week; (e)(2)(vii)(B) After having been on duty for 70 hours in 8 consecutive days if the employing motor carrier operates commercial motor vehicles every day of the week; (e)(2)(viii) Any period of 7 or 8 consecutive days may end with the beginning of any off-duty period of 34 or more consecutive hours. (e)(2)(ix) The motor carrier that employs the driver maintains and retains for a period of 6 months accurate and true time records showing: (e)(2)(ix)(A) The time the driver reports for duty each day; (e)(2)(ix)(B) The total number of hours the driver is on duty each day; (e)(2)(ix)(C) The time the driver is released from duty each day; (e)(2)(ix)(D) The total time for the preceding 7 days in accordance with §395.8(j)(2) for drivers used for the first time or intermittently. |
Originally Posted by Kentuckydiesel
Looks like 150 if the vehicle doesn't require a CDL
100 if it is a CDL vehicle, and the employer must keep time records. (e) Short-haul operations. (e)(1) 100 air-mile radius driver. A driver is exempt from the requirements of §395.8 if: (e)(1)(i) The driver operates within a 100 air-mile radius of the normal work reporting location; (e)(1)(ii) The driver, except a driver-salesperson, returns to the work reporting location and is released from work within 12 consecutive hours; (e)(1)(iii)(A) A property-carrying commercial motor vehicle driver has at least 10 consecutive hours off duty separating each 12 hours on duty; (e)(1)(iii)(B) A passenger-carrying commercial motor vehicle driver has at least 8 consecutive hours off duty separating each 12 hours on duty; (e)(1)(iv)(A) A property-carrying commercial motor vehicle driver does not exceed 11 hours maximum driving time following 10 consecutive hours off duty; or (e)(1)(iv)(B) A passenger-carrying commercial motor vehicle driver does not exceed 10 hours maximum driving time following 8 consecutive hours off duty; and (e)(1)(v) The motor carrier that employs the driver maintains and retains for a period of 6 months accurate and true time records showing: (e)(1)(v)(A) The time the driver reports for duty each day; (e)(1)(v)(B) The total number of hours the driver is on duty each day; (e)(1)(v)(C) The time the driver is released from duty each day; and (e)(1)(v)(D) The total time for the preceding 7 days in accordance with §395.8(j)(2) for drivers used for the first time or intermittently. (e)(2) Operators of property-carrying commercial motor vehicles not requiring a commercial driver’s license. Except as provided in this paragraph, a driver is exempt from the requirements of §395.3 and §395.8 and ineligible to use the provisions of §395.1(e)(1), (g) and (o) if: (e)(2)(i) The driver operates a property-carrying commercial motor vehicle for which a commercial driver’s license is not required under part 383 of this subchapter; (e)(2)(ii) The driver operates within a 150 air-mile radius of the location where the driver reports to and is released from work, i.e., the normal work reporting location; (e)(2)(iii) The driver returns to the normal work reporting location at the end of each duty tour; (e)(2)(iv) The driver has at least 10 consecutive hours off duty separating each on-duty period; (e)(2)(v) The driver does not drive more than 11 hours following at least 10 consecutive hours off duty; (e)(2)(vi) The driver does not drive: (e)(2)(vi)(A) After the 14th hour after coming on duty on 5 days of any period of 7 consecutive days; and (e)(2)(vi)(B) After the 16th hour after coming on duty on 2 days of any period of 7 consecutive days; (e)(2)(vii) The driver does not drive: (e)(2)(vii)(A) After having been on duty for 60 hours in 7 consecutive days if the employing motor carrier does not operate commercial motor vehicles every day of the week; (e)(2)(vii)(B) After having been on duty for 70 hours in 8 consecutive days if the employing motor carrier operates commercial motor vehicles every day of the week; (e)(2)(viii) Any period of 7 or 8 consecutive days may end with the beginning of any off-duty period of 34 or more consecutive hours. (e)(2)(ix) The motor carrier that employs the driver maintains and retains for a period of 6 months accurate and true time records showing: (e)(2)(ix)(A) The time the driver reports for duty each day; (e)(2)(ix)(B) The total number of hours the driver is on duty each day; (e)(2)(ix)(C) The time the driver is released from duty each day; (e)(2)(ix)(D) The total time for the preceding 7 days in accordance with §395.8(j)(2) for drivers used for the first time or intermittently. |
from experence.
I read that some place long time before. that you do not have to bother with the log book untill you gone 100 miles or 2 hours away. I left out on a trip after being off a few days. I did not touch my log book since I will be going less than 2 hours away to pick up my load and I was going to deal with it then. 15 miles from my home, and terminal I got pulled over by a NC DMV, whom I had a run in with before. He shut me down due to the log book not completed, and gave me a speeding ticket for doing the claiming I was doing 68 in a 55. But I was doing 55. I did go to court with it and the Trooper did not show. They wanted me to come back another day, but I said if you put the true peed I was doing, I'll pay the fine and go, cheaper than wasiting another day off the road. So they put it down speeding in a 55 by doing 55. So no matter what it is best to have the log book and started before leaving out. Or doing one even if not required. |
Originally Posted by Dawn
Yeap.
|
Originally Posted by Rev.Vassago
Originally Posted by Dawn
Yeap.
-Phillip |
Originally Posted by Kentuckydiesel
Originally Posted by Rev.Vassago
Originally Posted by Dawn
Yeap.
-Phillip |
Originally Posted by coastie
from experence.
I read that some place long time before. that you do not have to bother with the log book untill you gone 100 miles or 2 hours away. I left out on a trip after being off a few days. I did not touch my log book since I will be going less than 2 hours away to pick up my load and I was going to deal with it then. 15 miles from my home, and terminal I got pulled over by a NC DMV, whom I had a run in with before. He shut me down due to the log book not completed, and gave me a speeding ticket for doing the claiming I was doing 68 in a 55. But I was doing 55. I did go to court with it and the Trooper did not show. They wanted me to come back another day, but I said if you put the true peed I was doing, I'll pay the fine and go, cheaper than wasiting another day off the road. So they put it down speeding in a 55 by doing 55. So no matter what it is best to have the log book and started before leaving out. Or doing one even if not required. (e) Short-haul operations. (e)(1) 100 air-mile radius driver. A driver is exempt from the requirements of §395.8 if: (e)(1)(i) The driver operates within a 100 air-mile radius of the normal work reporting location; (e)(1)(ii) The driver, except a driver-salesperson, returns to the work reporting location and is released from work within 12 consecutive hours; (e)(1)(iii)(A) A property-carrying commercial motor vehicle driver has at least 10 consecutive hours off duty separating each 12 hours on duty; (e)(1)(iii)(B) A passenger-carrying commercial motor vehicle driver has at least 8 consecutive hours off duty separating each 12 hours on duty; (e)(1)(iv)(A) A property-carrying commercial motor vehicle driver does not exceed 11 hours maximum driving time following 10 consecutive hours off duty; or (e)(1)(iv)(B) A passenger-carrying commercial motor vehicle driver does not exceed 10 hours maximum driving time following 8 consecutive hours off duty; and (e)(1)(v) The motor carrier that employs the driver maintains and retains for a period of 6 months accurate and true time records showing: (e)(1)(v)(A) The time the driver reports for duty each day; (e)(1)(v)(B) The total number of hours the driver is on duty each day; (e)(1)(v)(C) The time the driver is released from duty each day; and (e)(1)(v)(D) The total time for the preceding 7 days in accordance with §395.8(j)(2) for drivers used for the first time or intermittently. |
Originally Posted by Dawn
You can however group the multiple stops as one.
You can only group multiple stops IN THE SAME CITY. It has nothing to do with being local, or using the 100 air mile radius. Besides - if they are using the 100 air mile radius exemption, then they aren't "grouping" anything, as they aren't even keeping a log. :roll: I should log the total time spent on line 4 all day, then log the driving time I spent at the end. This protects you from driving past the 14th hour if you get a dispatch over 100 air mile radius. If you are local every day you can follow the below requirements. You will be following a 12 hour rule, but if you would like to work 14 hours you must submit a log sheet for that day only. |
Originally Posted by Rev.Vassago
Originally Posted by Dawn
You can however group the multiple stops as one.
You can only group multiple stops IN THE SAME CITY. It has nothing to do with being local, or using the 100 air mile radius. Besides - if they are using the 100 air mile radius exemption, then they aren't "grouping" anything, as they aren't even keeping a log. :roll: I should log the total time spent on line 4 all day, then log the driving time I spent at the end. This protects you from driving past the 14th hour if you get a dispatch over 100 air mile radius. If you are local every day you can follow the below requirements. You will be following a 12 hour rule, but if you would like to work 14 hours you must submit a log sheet for that day only. |
Originally Posted by Dawn
I guess you are right and I am wrong. I sure hope these drivers dont get fines though. Your way or my way doesn't matter, I just hope these innocent drivers do not get fines :cry: I don't mean to be blunt with someone asking for help. However, drivers really should have a strong grasp for HOS and logging BEFORE they start driving. They should have learned this at CDL school, company training or OTR training/mentor. You should not leave the terminal on your first dispatch until you know for sure how to log properly. How is it that someone can go through the entire training process and still not have a grasp at the one thing DOT is always checking for? And last but not least call YOUR safety manager, or someone equivalent to that, to get reliable info. Unless that person is Dawn. Then you're :dung: out of luck! I'm off the soapbox. :) |
Originally Posted by Kentuckydiesel
Originally Posted by Rev.Vassago
Originally Posted by Dawn
Yeap.
-Phillip You ALSO must drink Sweet Tayee! :lol: |
Rev said:
What you are completely forgetting about is the fact that the driver is required to keep a time record for the days that they are under the 100 air mile radius. (e)(1)(v) The motor carrier that employs the driver maintains and retains for a period of 6 months accurate and true time records showing: (e)(1)(v)(A) The time the driver reports for duty each day; (e)(1)(v)(B) The total number of hours the driver is on duty each day; (e)(1)(v)(C) The time the driver is released from duty each day; and (e)(1)(v)(D) The total time for the preceding 7 days in accordance with §395.8(j)(2) for drivers used for the first time or intermittently. Oh.... and just for the record, the 100 "airmile" statute, for those who may drive locally, actually can be 115 "road miles." |
Originally Posted by greg3564
I don't mean to be blunt with someone asking for help. However, drivers really should have a strong grasp for HOS and logging BEFORE they start driving. They should have learned this at CDL school, company training or OTR training/mentor. You should not leave the terminal on your first dispatch until you know for sure how to log properly. How is it that someone can go through the entire training process and still not have a grasp at the one thing DOT is always checking for? AMEN Brother!!! I have been saying this all along! And last but not least call YOUR safety manager, or someone equivalent to that, to get reliable info. Unless that person is Dawn. Then you're :dung: out of luck! Well.... actually, when I first started, right out of school, I had to correct both people in my safety department concerning the new HOS rules. I have also found SEVERAL posts on this and other sites by safety managers that misquote the regs.... especially concerning the 14 hour "window" and I had to "teach" my trainer about the new rules, because he was trying to "teach" me the OLD way of logging. It seems that MANY drivers who operated under the old rules, have a harder time grasping the NEW ones. And I don't trust ANY safety/log manager! No offense, but most of them are just "average" people. They make mistakes. And as I've often said.... Average people will get you KILLED/ticketed every time! I'm off the soapbox. :) Good! It was getting crowded up here! :lol: :lol: |
Originally Posted by golfhobo
Oh.... and just for the record, the 100 "airmile" statute, for those who may drive locally, actually can be 115 "road miles."
kc0iv |
Originally Posted by kc0iv
Originally Posted by golfhobo
Oh.... and just for the record, the 100 "airmile" statute, for those who may drive locally, actually can be 115 "road miles."
kc0iv C-2. What is an "air-mile"? The term "air-mile" is internationally defined as a "nautical mile" which is equivalent to 6,076 feet. Thus, the 100 air-miles are equivalent to 115.08 statute miles, and 150 air-miles are equivalent to 172.6 statute miles. I should learn to stay away from shorthaul discussions, as I have only glanced at the regs that don't apply to me! So, if you drive shorthaul, you can stay within a radius of 115.08 STATUTE miles! And drive all the miles you want to within 12 hours. I just thought someone might need that other 15 miles someday! :wink: I guess if you want to know whether a town is outside the limits, you have to go back and rent an airplane and fly there first! :lol: Jeez.... what kind of regulatory agency would intentionally confuse truckers by using AIR miles anyway??? :shock: :lol: Never mind!!! :wink: See??? I'm just as "average" as the next guy! I could've gotten someone KILT!!! :lol: [/quote] |
Originally Posted by golfhobo
Originally Posted by kc0iv
Originally Posted by golfhobo
Oh.... and just for the record, the 100 "airmile" statute, for those who may drive locally, actually can be 115 "road miles."
kc0iv C-2. What is an "air-mile"? The term "air-mile" is internationally defined as a "nautical mile" which is equivalent to 6,076 feet. Thus, the 100 air-miles are equivalent to 115.08 statute miles, and 150 air-miles are equivalent to 172.6 statute miles. I should learn to stay away from shorthaul discussions, as I have only glanced at the regs that don't apply to me! So, if you drive shorthaul, you can stay within a radius of 115.08 STATUTE miles! And drive all the miles you want to within 12 hours. I just thought someone might need that other 15 miles someday! :wink: I guess if you want to know whether a town is outside the limits, you have to go back and rent an airplane and fly there first! :lol: Jeez.... what kind of regulatory agency would intentionally confuse truckers by using AIR miles anyway??? :shock: :lol: Never mind!!! :wink: See??? I'm just as "average" as the next guy! I could've gotten someone KILT!!! :lol: Makes perfect sense to me. Take a map. Draw a circle with a radius of 100 nm (115 statute miles) from your starting location. Anything inside the circle you can drive in. That is an area of over 2596 square miles. About the area of the state Rhode Island. Now I do wonder why they used "nautical mile" instead of "statute miles". I would guess since they also writes rules for aircraft and boats may have something to do with it. However I like the idea of flying there first. Seeing I'm a license pilot. :D kc0iv |
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