Split sleeper berth question
 

I drive for 5 hours after a 10 hour break,get to shipper and go into sleeper berth for 2 hours waiting for appt.,on duty not driving for 2 hrs loading and then go into sleeper berth for 8 more hours,how many hours can I drive?

Here is my thoughts,since you usually take the time driving between the split sleeper berths and subtract from 11 and that gives you what you can drive I think I have the full 11hrs available,thoughts?

Re: Split sleeper berth question
 

You still have 9 hours to be used for "on duty" or 6 hours MORE drive time and 3 hrs "on duty". Trim your load time an hour if possible, if spent in the sleeper (napping, reading a magazine, watching TV, etc).

The split sleeper berth stops the clock, it doesn't extend it. The minimum is 2 hrs to split the sleeper berth, but is not limited to it. Its a good idea to log more than the remaining balance of needed sleeper berth time to make the logs look good. :wink:

Re: Split sleeper berth question
 

Nope. The 14 hour clock started when he began driving the 5 hours.

5 driving
+ 2 waiting
+ 2 unloding
__________
9 hours into the 14 hour clock

You can drive another 5 hours before you have to stop driving for an additional 2 hours. At that point, you have another 6 hours drivng time available to you.

Once you begin splitting your sleeper berth time, the only thing that will get you off of it is a full 10 hours off duty or sleeper berth.

Rev, he went into the sleeper for 2 hrs waiting (I'm assuming he logged it in the sleeper). He did spend 2 hrs "on duty" during the load (which I assume is logged as on-duty).

5 hrs (driving)
2 hrs (loading-on duty)
2 hrs (sleeper berth-waiting to be loaded)
___________________
7 hrs worked

remaining hours- 14 -7 = 7hrs (6 can be used for driving)

If he "trimmed" the load time on duty, he could free up some more time, or bank it for the rest of the week :wink:

edit: he does not have 9 more hours, as stated originally stated. I dunno where or how i got that figure :oops:

The 14 hour clock DOES NOT STOP for that 2 hours he spent in the sleeper berth. The only thing that stops the 14 hour clock is 8 hours or more in the sleeper berth. Therefore, it must be counted in the 14 hour clock:

5 driving
2 sleeper
2 unloading
_________
9 hours used up on the 14 hour clock.

After the 8 hours in the sleeper berth, he has 5 hours remaining before the 14 hour clock expires, which can be spent driving. At that point, he must stop for 2 hours:

5 driving
2 sleeper
_______
7 hours used up on the 14 hour clock.

At that point, he can drive an additional 6 hours, at which point the 11 hour clock is used up. He must then stop for AT LEAST 8 hours before he can drive again.

Your mistake, BC, is that you aren't counting the 2 hours sleeper berth in the 14 hour clock. ANYTHING under 8 hours counts towards the 14 hour clock.

I've bnever been hit with a violaton for the 2 hr rule- i learned it from dad. I do it all the time, in fact.

I've extended my day of times by logging 2 hours in the sleeper, not exceeding 14 hrs total from my initial pre-trip, but ALWAYS catching up with 8+hrs of sleeper birth at the end of 14 hrs.

Must be a United thing? I blame it on Mayflower :lol:

Rev, we are both wrong.

We need Dawn to set us straight!!! :lol: :lol:

Dad was wrong. Anything under 8 hours doesn't stop the 14 hour clock. I just drew it out on a log to confirm that I was correct.

The 14 hours starts when you first go on duty, and doesn't stop until 8 hours or more is logged in the sleeper berth, or OFF DUTY. This was the major change from the "old rules" (not to be confused with the "old, old rules").

Bekins. Just sayin'. :wink:

Yup.... I was just thinking after I read the topic "oh god ... here goes another one"

Re: Split sleeper berth question
 

Mike3fan: I KNOW that everyone else who has posted here will argue with me, but YOU ARE RIGHT!

You still have your full 11 hours driving time. However, the 2 hours loading time WILL count against your 14 hour clock, so you only have 12 hours left to drive the 11.

I will NOT defend my position tonight, those who THINK they know the rules better than I, can assail me all they want. But, as usual, they are NOT listening to the facts as you've posted them, and are bent on "quoting" regs, instead of "understanding" them!

Since you didn't DRIVE between your two breaks, you still have all 11 hours left to drive. Your most recent clock started AFTER your initial 2 hour break in the sleeper waiting to get loaded. The 2 hours loading are on line 4, followed by the 8 hour sleeper break. You now have only 12 hours left within which to drive ALL 11 HOURS, if you want. However, if you do so, you'll need to take a full 10 hour break to get hours back, because you will have driven the full 11. Got it?

Paging dawn...you have a cleanup in aisle 5!

We have 3 different views here. :lol:

Re: Split sleeper berth question
 

Yes, after drawing it up again, I see where I made the mistake. The first 14 hour clock was satisfied when the 8 hour break took place. The second 14 hour clock started when he went onto the dock. 11 hours are available for driving.

I haven't seen one reg quoted here. :roll:

thanks guys,I thought that the 10 hrs sleeper berth with no driving would give me 11hrs driving time,leaving now before you know who shows up and really screws it up.

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

At least I only partially screwed it up. :lol: :lol:

Split sleeper
 

Golfhobo is correct, and to quote the regs:

395.1(g)(1)(ii)(B) Calculation of the 11-hour driving limit includes all driving time; compliance must be re-calculated from the end of the first of the two periods used to comply with paragraph (g)(1)(ii)(A) of this section.

(g)(1)(ii)(C) Calculation of the 14-hour limit includes all time except any sleeper-berth period of at least 8 but less than 10 consecutive hours; compliance must be re-calculated from the end of the first of the two periods used to comply with the requirements of paragraph (g)(1)(ii)(A) of this section.

In other words, your time available after the 2nd qualifying break (the 8 hours in the bunk) is calculated by counting forward from the end of the 2-hour break and excluding the 8-hour period.

Bandit I already pm'd him. I gave him a reply that should help him understand. He was correct in his own statement he made!
He had 11 hours to drive!
His 14 would restart from the end of the 2 as Golf stated, however he had an 8 hour sleeper break so that would extend the 14 hour.

So if his 2 hour break ENDED @ 12:00 am his original 14 was up @ 2:00 pm.
Now he had the 8 hour sleeper break so now his 14 hour is up @ 10:00 pm. (the 8 hour break extended the 14 hour)
The 14 hour is just as important as the 11 hour. They both need to be figured before driving!

His driving time from 12:00 am to 10:00 pm can not total more than 11 hours until he gets a 2 hour break!

I didn't even read half the comments I just saw you begging for my answer!

3 simple steps to figuring out when the 14 hour is up and how much driving time is available.
Always add driving time in between the 8 & 2 breaks subtract from 11 and that is how many hours you have available to drive.

The question has already been answered quite competenly by golfhobo, Dawn. You can go away. :roll:

Apparently, you don't understand SARCASM. :roll:

That is not only poor advice, but it is also HORRIBLY INCORRECT.

Rev: The 2 hour does not extend the 14 hour clock, but he had the 8 hour break to complete the split 10! Therefore his 14 hour clock resets from the end of the 2 hour break, therefor he as an 8 hour sleeper break started within his "new" 14 hour period and has not used up any driving time. He has 11 hours to drive!

5 driving
2 sleeper
2 onduty
8 sleeper
14 resets from the end of the 2! count 14 hours after than!
Look forward from the end of the 2; if you have 8 hours in the sleeper you can extend the 14 hour by the # of hours in the sleeper.
He used no driving time in between the 8 & 2 therefore he has 11 to drive.

Re: Split sleeper berth question
 

Golf you are correct! I will stand by when someone is correct :lol: We both come up with the same answer, only I would state after the 8 hour sleeper break you have 12 hours to get the 11 of driving in. Your math and my math does make the answers come out the same @ least in this scenerio. In this one if he stops for 1 hour 30 minutes he will not be able to finish the 11 hours and if he isn't aware how to figure the 14 hour it can cause him to get a 14 hour violation. Many drivers focus on the driving time available not the 14 hour! Both need to be figured!

DAWN: Always a day late and a dollar short. :lol:


So, according to your stellar and insightful advice above, apparently this log is perfectly legit:

Driver drives for 1 hour after a 10 hour break, then goes to sleeper berth for 2 hours. He then unloads for 5 hours, before going into the sleeper berth for 8 hours.

http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k1...sago1/day1.jpg

After the 8 hour break, he follows Dawn's advice:

Since he has zero hours of driving inbetween the 8 and 2 breaks, he drives for 11 hours before going into the sleeper for 2 hours.

http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k1...ago1/day-2.jpg

Is this the same advice that you give to the drivers of your employer, Dawn? :roll:

If you read my full advice and not just how you figure the driving time!

There is 3 steps! The first steps are figuring out the 14 hour!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Step 1: go to the end of the previous break! Count over 14 hours! The mark in your day 1 would be 5:00 pm when the original 14 hour ended.
Step 2: Go to the end of the previous break! Look forward do you have an 8 hour sleeper break? Yes: The count over 8 hours from your 14 hour you just figured on step 1. This would make your 14 hour end @ 1:00 am.
Step 3: Add up driving times between the 8 & 2 hour break; subtract that from 11 and that is how many hours you can drive as long as the 14 hour allows this.

So you would not get the full hours available in this situation because your 14 hour ended @ 1:00 am. So this driver is in violation from 1:00 am

This is why stressed 3 steps to figuring it out! Not the 1 you are focussing on! :roll:

I only see one step here:

Again - the question was answered LONG before you were here. :roll:

Yeap I see that it was answered but I was reading in order and replying in order! Again If you READ! I said 3 steps and I already replied to him via pm stating the 3 steps very clearly! So you can pick on someone else, because I honesly laugh at your stupidity! :lol: and I laugh at the one's who follow you, shows me they are not leaders, they are followers :lol:

Funny someone else answered and you came along and gave the wrong information. Hmm why did you answer the incorrect information?

So why answer a question that was already answered correctly? Is it just to increase your post count?

You said three steps, and only listed one. :roll:

And I realized my mistake, and admitted I was wrong.................unlike what you do when you are wrong. :roll:

I replied because as you can see below someone asked me to! Sarcastically or not, they asked!
2 as you can see in my first response I stated exactly the 3 steps in figuring out the 14 hour and driving time. Did I number them, NOPE! But the steps are there! I specifacly answered the question and gave them an example in how you come up with the answer. More than I seen on any reply, which helps the driver understand future issue's he/she might run into! So again, you quote only the words to make someone look wrong, when in deed reading the whole post it stresses very well you must look at the 14 hour and the 11 hour!

Rev the jack ass :roll: that thinks he is the only one who knows everything and explains it the best.

BanditsCousin wrote:
Paging dawn...you have a cleanup in aisle 5!

We have 3 different views here.


Bandit I already pm'd him. I gave him a reply that should help him understand. He was correct in his own statement he made!
He had 11 hours to drive!
His 14 would restart from the end of the 2 as Golf stated, however he had an 8 hour sleeper break so that would extend the 14 hour.

So if his 2 hour break ENDED @ 12:00 am his original 14 was up @ 2:00 pm.
Now he had the 8 hour sleeper break so now his 14 hour is up @ 10:00 pm. (the 8 hour break extended the 14 hour)
The 14 hour is just as important as the 11 hour. They both need to be figured before driving!

His driving time from 12:00 am to 10:00 pm can not total more than 11 hours until he gets a 2 hour break!

I didn't even read half the comments I just saw you begging for my answer!

3 simple steps to figuring out when the 14 hour is up and how much driving time is available.
Always add driving time in between the 8 & 2 breaks subtract from 11 and that is how many hours you have available to drive.

Back to top

No offense Dawn,but as someone who has filled out a log everyday for the last 21 years you really didn't help me.
All I needed was a reinforcement of my beliefs that I was right and I got that from Golf and Rev(eventually).You might want to asses how you explain this rule to any drivers that do not have significant experience as you're pm was rather confusing and not really helpful.

I knew that Rev. was wrong at first because I knew he didn't totally read my post,but I also knew he would eventually get it right.

Just making it bigger, so she can see it.

Just making it bigger so she can see it.

Which I did - long before Dawn stuck her nose in here. :lol:

I am sorry it did not help you, but it is a simple procedure and if you can't follow A, B & C, then it really shows me your intelligence. Again as I have said those who follow Rev are followers not leaders, so you show me which category you fit in!

You stated words I used in your first thread so therefore I know you may have learned these words from me in the first place or the person you heard them from learned them from me :lol:
I always tell driver's to your words copied here : ,since you usually take the time driving between the split sleeper berths and subtract from 11 and that gives you what you can drive.
Hmm many people tell the drivers you can drive what you drove prior to the first break, which is very untrue in most cases.


Again sorry I did not help you, but if you attempt the simple math I gave you, it makes you understand it better and does not make you "doubt" yourself and have to ask others!

To Rev & Mike: I start from top to bottom, I ignored Rev's first response and then thought twice to reply since he loves to show I am wrong of course I had to prove he was wrong, I normally don't care, but he picks on me I pick back.

I was asked for me to set you all straight. All the answers prior did not make any sense what so ever! Not even Rev's, being a pro at logging and finding violations I was lost!

So if you don't appreciate my help in trying to understand the proper way of logging, then I really don't care! Those of you who do well thanks and I know you will be logging correctly.
Mike: I am glad you have been logging for 21 years, I have been auditing logs for 18! I doubt the boss I have for 18 years would keep me if I didn't have a GREATTTTTTTTTTTT understanding of the regulations. It means more sticking with one than it means jumping around from company to company! I will argue with a DOT officer on the regulations as I know the rules and I know I explain them well, some just don't know how to read :roll:

Way to alienate yourself even further, Dawn:

So now, when these people you claim to want to help so bad cannot understand you (due to your lousy explanations), they have an intelligence problem?

You are pathetic, Dawn. :roll:

understanding something and conveying that knowledge to others is not one and the same,I think your comunication skills are poor.IMO

We've been telling her that since she arrived here, but apparently her comprehension skills are even worse. :lol:

I started a war, when all i want to be is Switzerland! 8)

Dawn wrote:

This is not a good practice. Sometimes, I come in from the road and there are 4 pages on a topic. I ALWAYS read the entire thread before answering "out of turn" to be sure it hasn't already been stated, etc. You might want to try this.

And...

The Rev was just adding HIS answer to others. Happens all the time. As to why it was incorrect? Obviously, he read the question wrongly as others did. He has never claimed to be perfect. And he never gave incorrect information after realizing his mistake.

And...

This is not true. I had allready given the correct answer, the Rev had allready corrected himself, and Bicycle Boy had confirmed my answer AND quoted the regs, AND given a well worded and concise explanation... ALL BEFORE YOU ANSWERED.

I believe my answer made perfect sense to Mike3fan AND the others. I did not feel the need to quote the regs, OR explain exactly how to figure out the answer. My answer indicated the correct calculations.

I APOLOGIZE to the Rev for my insinuation that I would be "assailed." I was a bit defensive from the way another thread was going.

As it turned out, I didn't HAVE to defend my answer, as everyone "got it." My apologies to all for being defensive.

Dawn, you are NOT the only one here who knows the correct answers. However, and I apologize if this offends you but, you are OFTEN very confusing in your answers. Just as comprehending the question is important, so is the WAY one explains the answer. Unfortunately, your grammar often obscures your knowledge. I don't know what to tell you about fixing that. Spellcheck is of no real help for "composition." Perhaps, Adult Education might "remedy" your situation. I think you said something somewhere about "napping" during English classes. That was, obviously, a BIG mistake. But, it CAN be corrected. Just a little food for thought.

Believe it or not.... I don't like offending people! :shock: I feel that Dawn has gotten a raw deal from many truckers on this site, but then again, she has often deserved it. Truckers are not often of the kindly persuasion! Had she joined the site and ONLY answered logging questions when they were asked, she might have been "accepted," regardless of her poor English skills. After all.... many others on here are equally deficient!

Her fate was sealed when she came here, without credentials as a driver, and OFFERED answers and advice to questions that had not been asked. We've ALL met these kind of "drivers attorneys" at the lunch counter. (and they are usually DRIVERS!) I believe her intentions were well meaning. Unfortunately, her defenses were ill equipped and poorly managed.

The attacks on her have been BRUTAL, and nothing less than I expected from many of the types of drivers I have met in my short time on the road (but beneath the quality of participants on this board.) Drivers seem to get a sense of power from belittling another. I don't quite understand why. It's in the genes, I think. No matter. It is what it is. You don't bring a slingshot to a gunfight!

That is why I have been a staunch opponent to the many WIMPS who choose to get into the driving profession. It takes a thick skin, and a steel will. I would want no other than a military veteran or a trucker in my foxhole! And it really makes no difference to me whether you have perfect English or not! However, a certain grasp of SIMPLE mathematics would be helpfull!

The Federal HOS regs are confusing, no doubt. And no one, I repeat NO ONE (including The REV, Dawn or MYSELF) has ever been perfectly accurate or clear in explaining them. The language has its imperfections. But the math is SIMPLE!!! There's no trigonometry involved here folks! Just simple addition and subtraction! But, the problem doesn't lie in the Math.... it is in the comprehension of the regs. If they were written more clearly, anyone could understand the math!

So, those who stumble are only human. And those who try to explain it, are often just the same. 18 years as a log manager means nothing if you can't explain the simple process of logging in clear language.

But, 20 years of trucking means NO MORE, if you can't adapt to a simple change of rulings and a new math equation!

The SIMPLE question of how to log comes up over and over on these boards! Makes me wonder how SOME people got the job in the first place! This is NOT your grandfather's trucking industry anymore!

No... KayCee! I'm not OFF the fence yet. I won't fall into either camp until ONE of them steps UP!! Until then, I'll remain as always, an independant trucker! Just ME and the ROAD! At least THERE I know we BOTH understand the rules!

Hobo

That's why i don't use "split" anymore, since new "Amendment"! :lol: :wink:

solo379 wrote:

That's why i don't use "split" anymore, since new "Amendment"!

I will agree with you about the split. In a way I wish they would have just gotten rid of the split with the way they done it.

Hey Rev you did a pretty good job of explaining it. It took me some time with the regs and the examples that have been on the JJ Keller site to understand it. Both our safety person who is part owner and me to sit down and work with the examples to understand it.

I wish they would go back over that part and make it more simpler and less confusing

Re: Split sleeper berth question
 

Remember this much if you just take the 2 hours sleeper berth and add it to the 8 hours sleeper berth then that gives you 10 consecutive hours of sleeper berth, and gives you the full credits of hours to run, show the onduty not driving before the sleeper berth.
When you are at the shippers gates you are on private property, and if ur not getting paid by the hour then why screw yourself on the log books.
this is not breaking the laws just bending them a little bit.
most people are not going to show everything they did just as they do it cause this would be impossible to do. human error.

I do not advocate breaking any law or rules but however its all a rat race and if it looks good on paper then ur ok unless you have a DOT inspector watching you the whole time you are thee. you know this, they know this, and the company knows this. and never own up to doctoring any books, a forgetfull mind is an invaluable tool in this industry.