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Log Trucks using different Logs

I just started hauling logs in Oct of this year. Since then I have not found anyone that uses a log book, but goes by a time sheet. We drive in 3 states home is AL, drive in GA and TN.

Has anyone heard of this? I have asked if you didn't need a log book to cross state lines, and was told no because Logging is exempt because it comes out of the woods in the natural state and is not changed or processed until you unload it.

Longest haul one way is 120 miles, starts in AL, then GA and TN, and return.

according to FTC (Federal Transportation Commision) and log book is only required when working outside of a 150 air mile radius of the base termanial.

Slider

Yes, as far as I understand it, it's a 150-mile air radius. Has nothing to do with crossing state lines. If the longest run in 120 miles, you got nothing to worry about.

I've hauled logs up here and if you're within the radius you don't have to log it unless you're crossing a state line.
keep a sheet of your hours though.

Hey I really appreciate the info.

Now for another question, do you get the hour sheets from your home state, and if so, do you have to send them back to them every so often.

Can anyone tell me where is a good place to get the FMCSR book, both in pocket size and I have read somewhere you can get it in a notebook edition for your office?

Most truck stops sell the pocket size handbooks as well as log books. There is a Pilot not too far from you, I believe. They should have them. And I have seen people ticketed for crossing state lines and not logging, even though they were within the 150 mile radius. It is best to check the rule book for yourself.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Papa Rick

Hey I really appreciate the info.

Now for another question, do you get the hour sheets from your home state, and if so, do you have to send them back to them every so often.

We just used a sheet with date-Where you picked up the Logs-What city and Paper Mill you were going to and the time you started the day and when you finished for that day.
When running intra-state you might want to check your states laws. Your regs might be different.

Could cut logs be considered an agricultural product therefore nothing's required other than a time sheet? BOL

How bout,sawing logs? :shock: :P

Kenworth Hauling Hogs?

Coulda been! Do I hear CW McCall? BOL

Re: Hauling Logs

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sealord

Could cut logs be considered an agricultural product therefore nothing's required other than a time sheet? BOL

Up here Log trucks are plated as Farm Vehicle.
Cut logs would be considered Lumber and have to be considered Commercial.

Re: Log Trucks using different Logs

Quote:

Originally Posted by Papa Rick

The 150 miles is only for NON-CDL drivers: So if you do not need a CDL to haul the logs then yes it is 150 mile radius. If you need a CDL to haul logs then if you go outside 100 mile radius you will need to fill out log sheets.

Drivers of property-carrying CMVs which do not require a Commercial Driver's License for operation and who operate within a 150 air-mile radius of their normal work reporting location:
May drive a maximum of 11 hours after coming on duty following 10 or more consecutive hours off duty.
Are not required to keep records-of-duty status (RODS).
May not drive after the 14th hour after coming on duty 5 days a week or after the 16th hour after coming on duty 2 days a week.
Employer must:
Maintain and retain accurate time records for a period of 6 months showing the time the duty period began, ended, and total hours on duty each day in place of RODS.

Don't know why you repeat answers already given other than your copy and paste.

Quote:

Originally Posted by yoopr

Don't know why you repeat answers already given other than your copy and paste.

No many said that if he is within 150 miles he does not have to log. They did not specify the fact if he DOES NOT HAVE TO CARRY A CDL HE doesn't have to log it.
If he must have a CDL then his range is 100 miles (just like always)
I do not see where anyone explained that.

I am not sure if Log Haulers need a CDL or not, but I wanted to make sure he knew the fact of 100 miles versus 150 miles. Many people thought they changed the range from 100 to 150 for all local drivers, when in fact they only changed the NON CDL drivers range.
Sorry Yoopr if I repeated, I did not see where it was explained

Of course log haulers have CDL's

Quote:

Originally Posted by yoopr

Of course log haulers have CDL's

Then if he drives over 100 mile radius he must keep a log book. That was my point. Again sorry Yoopr!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dawn

Quote:

Originally Posted by yoopr

Of course log haulers have CDL's

Then if he drives over 100 mile radius he must keep a log book. That was my point. Again sorry Yoopr!

More brilliant posts by our " rules and regs so called expert ".... :roll:

Guaranteed you need to show a pre trip inspection and a post trip.
Would it not be just as easy to use a log book and use line 4 for all your time.
IE a straight line across on duty for your hours worked

It's perfectly legal to log it that way.

With CDL, just make sure you don't go over the working hours, and you
have to carry a DOT physical card when you cross state line.

I reread this post a number of times and I don't think Papa Rick got a complete answer, thou Dawn was very close.
If you have a CDL-A or B license you do not have to log as long as you stay within 100 air miles and you are driving a group A or B vehicle (383.91)
This is, of course if you are operating within this distance of your normal reporting station.
You return to the work reporting and be released from duty within 12 consecutive hours.
You must also maintain your time records.
You are not covered by the non CDL 150 air mile provision

If you have a CDL-A or B or a non CDL license you do not have to log as long as you stay within 150 air miles provided that you are driving a group c vehicle. (under 26,001) This rule applies to property carrying commercial vehicles. I'm not sure if logging falls under this category.

Yoopr, I might add that crossing state lines does not change the rules. Our terminal is about 15 miles from the WI line, 70 from IN line. We always cross these state lines and as long as we are within the radius we only need to keep a time record, no logs.

Yoopr, I might add that crossing state lines does not change the rules. Our terminal is about 15 miles from the WI line, 70 from IN line. We always cross these state lines and as long as we are within the radius we only need to keep a time record, no logs.

Wrong-Log trucks up here have to carry a log when crossing Wi state line while carrying Logs.

This was a Logging thread case you forgot.

This rule applies to property carrying commercial vehicles. I'm not sure if logging falls under this category.

I did read the post.

Quote:

Originally Posted by yoopr

A few rules about what is and what is not interstate:

Quote:

Question 6: How does one distinguish between intra- and interstate commerce for the purposes of applicability of the FMCSRs?

Guidance: Interstate commerce is determined by the essential character of the movement, manifested by the shipper's fixed and persistent intent at the time of shipment, and is ascertained from all of the facts and circumstances surrounding the transportation. When the intent of the transportation being performed is interstate in nature, even when the route is within the boundaries of a single State, the driver and CMV are subject to the FMCSRs.

Question 13: A motor carrier dispatches an empty CMV from State A into adjoining State B in order to transport cargo or passengers between two points in State B, and then to return empty to State A. Does the transportation of cargo or passengers within State B constitute interstate commerce?

Guidance: Yes. The courts and the ICC developed a test that clarifies the legal status of intrastate portions of interstate trips. The character of the intrastate leg depends on the shipper's fixed and persistent intent when the transportation began. The fixed and persistent intent in this case was to move property--the vehicle itself--across State lines and between two points in State B where it was used to haul cargo or passengers. The transportation within State B, therefore, constitutes interstate commerce. In some cases the motor carrier may be the shipper.

1. Any driver who begins a trip in interstate commerce must continue to meet the requirements of 49 CFR 395.3(a) and (b) through the end of the next 7 to 8 consecutive days, depending on which rule the motor carrier operates under.

The driver must continue to comply with the requirements of 49 CFR Part 395, even if he/she operates exclusively in intrastate commerce for the remainder of the 60/70 hour period (i.e. 7-8 day schedule) at the end of the interstate trip. The driver must also continue to comply with the 10- and 15-hour rules as well as the 60- or 70-hour rules for the remainder of that day, and the following 7 days (if the 60-hour rule was applicable) or 8 days (if the 70-hour rule was applicable).

A driver who begins a trip in interstate commerce in a CMV must have in his/her possession a copy of records of duty status for the previous 7 consecutive days, as required by 49 CFR 395.8(k)(2) unless they meet 49 CFR 395.1(e), even if the driver operated only in intrastate commerce during that 7-day period. During the 7-day period prior to the interstate trip the driver may follow the state regulations applicable to intrastate commerce with regard to the states’ CMV driving and on-duty requirements.

2. FMCSA investigators should cite drivers for violations of the 10- or 15-hour rules or the 60- or 70-hour rules that are committed while on the interstate trip or during the 7 or 8 days after completing the interstate trip (depending on which rule the motor carrier operates under).

The driver remains subject to Part 395 for 7 or 8 days after a trip in interstate commerce even if he/she drives only in intrastate commerce for that period. Violations of the policies stated here which are discovered during compliance reviews should be treated like any other violations of the FMCSRs in determining the motor carrier’s safety rating and enforcement action may be taken.

3. The MCSAP Tolerance Guidelines in Appendix C to 49 C.F.R. Part 350 are unchanged. This policy statement simply clarifies the difference between Paragraphs 2 and 3 of the Guidelines, i.e., between the type of trips subject to Federal jurisdiction, as opposed to those subject only to State jurisdiction.

http://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/rules-regul...nterp390.3.htm

=====================

Quote:

Question 6: Is transporting an empty CMV across State lines for purposes of repair and maintenance considered interstate commerce?

Guidance: Yes. The FMCSRs are applicable to drivers and CMVs in interstate commerce which transport property. The property in this situation is the empty CMV.

http://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/rules-regul...nterp390.5.htm

In a nutshell anytime you cross a state line you fall under interstate rules.

kc0iv

Back to the original question. The driver has a CDL-A license, drives a group A truck and travels 120 miles one direction. By law he needs to log because he is outside the 100 mile radius. The one part I am not sure about is if logging is exempt of this rule.
My only other suggestion is to call your area DOT Safety Reg. office and have them clarify it for you.

Thanks everyone, I will call my area Dot Office and get a better understanding about this.

The reason that I asked this question is:

1. I have talked with a few Log drivers and all of them do not use a log book, but a date/mileage sheet. When I questioned them about this, they all told me that if they travel less than 150 miles they are exempt from the log books, due to being a log hauler????? Never heard of this before, but then again I never hauled logs either for a living.

2. The reason I would like to use the date/mileage sheet if in fact it is legal is because you do not have to watch your time near as close, and on your fuel receipts don't have a time on the mileage sheet, as they do with the log books.

1. I have talked with a few Log drivers and all of them do not use a log book, but a date/mileage sheet. When I questioned them about this, they all told me that if they travel less than 150 miles they are exempt from the log books, due to being a log hauler????? Never heard of this before, but then again I never hauled logs either for a living

They told you right but remember that even though you though you have your CDL and under Rules and Regs you're gonna be more involved with the State of Alabama's rules and Regs more.

Quote:

§395.1 Scope of rules in this part.

(e) Short-haul operations.

(e)(1) 100 air-mile radius driver. A driver is exempt from the requirements of §395.8 if:

(e)(1)(i) The driver operates within a 100 air-mile radius of the normal work reporting location;

(e)(1)(ii) The driver, except a driver-salesperson, returns to the work reporting location and is released from work within 12 consecutive hours;

(e)(1)(iii)(A) A property-carrying commercial motor vehicle driver has at least 10 consecutive hours off duty separating each 12 hours on duty;

(e)(1)(iv)(A) A property-carrying commercial motor vehicle driver does not exceed 11 hours maximum driving time following 10 consecutive hours off duty; and

(e)(1)(v) The motor carrier that employs the driver maintains and retains for a period of 6 months accurate and true time records showing:

(e)(1)(v)(A) The time the driver reports for duty each day;

(e)(1)(v)(B) The total number of hours the driver is on duty each day;

(e)(1)(v)(C) The time the driver is released from duty each day; and

(e)(1)(v)(D) The total time for the preceding 7 days in accordance with §395.8(j)(2) for drivers used for the first time or intermittently.

If the driver meets all of the above requirements the driver does not require a log book, if ANY ONE condition is not met a log is required for that day.

Be safe.

why all the repeating on this?

Plus Myth you really don't understand log hauling which is evident.
Guess you never heard of Log Trucks having Farm Plate exemptions.

yoopr says:

Quote:

Plus Myth you really don't understand log hauling which is evident.
Guess you never heard of Log Trucks having Farm Plate exemptions.

I guess that would depend on who was operating the vehicle:

Quote:

Farm vehicle driver means a person who drives only a commercial motor vehicle that is —

(a) Controlled and operated by a farmer as a private motor carrier of property;

(b) Being used to transport either —

(1) Agricultural products, or

(2) Farm machinery, farm supplies, or both, to or from a farm;

(c) Not being used in the operation of a for-hire motor carrier;

(d) Not carrying hazardous materials of a type or quantity that requires the commercial motor vehicle to be placarded in accordance with §177.823 of this subtitle; and

(e) Being used within 150 air miles of the farmer's farm.

Farmer means any person who operates a farm or is directly involved in the cultivation of land, crops, or livestock which —

(a) Are owned by that person; or

(b) Are under the direct control of that person.

If the farmer owns the vehicle and is operating it then there may be exceptions. If a for hire carrier is running the logs then they are not exempt. :twisted:

yoopr is on a roll and is showing he's not quite as well informed as he thought he was. 8)

I don't know of very many logging companies that own the property and havest the lumber. I do know of logging operations that are hired by mills to haul harvested lumber from the hill to the mill.

FYI, I was a choker setter and landing operator for a lumber mill in my younger days. :wink:

Be safe.

I'm very well "Informed" on Michigan Farm Plated Log trucks
Don't think you are though.
Fed DOT regs don't wash up here when run intra state within the radius.
Farm plated log trucks up don't have to be run or "Owned" by "Farmers"

yoopr off topic says:

Quote:

Great the next time there's a question about hauling logs intrastate in Michigan I'll keep that in mind. However, the topic was about interstate in TN, GA and KY:

Quote:

Be safe.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Myth_Buster

yoopr off topic says:

Quote:

Great the next time there's a question about hauling logs intrastate in Michigan I'll keep that in mind. However, the topic was about interstate in TN, GA and KY:

Quote:

Be safe.

Kind of what I thought Myth :lol:

Wrong-Before you two "Experts" came on to this thread the answer was given to the author of this thread a few times by a few people.

Quote:

Originally Posted by yoopr

Wrong-Before you two "Experts" came on to this thread the answer was given to the author of this thread a few times by a few people.

YOOPR: Everyone answered if he was within 150 air mile radius he did not have to log.
Then I told him if he did not need a CDL the regulation is within 150 mile radius and under a certain amount of lbs then you don't have to log.

If he needed a CDL (which I believe you replied "of course you need a cdl to haul logs") then the rule is if you are within 100 air mile radius you do not have to log. He clearly stated he goes over 100 air mile radius in the first message. Therefore he must log. Everyone else is saying if you are within 150 mile radius you are considered local and do not have to log. This is not true if you must carry a CDL and weigh over a certain amount of lbs, which I would assume he is WAY over the wieght limit.

The state thing I did not argue with since I follow federal regulations which over ride (my drivers) the state; the 150 mile radius regulation is not being read carefully! It states NON-CDL drivers within 150 mile radius.
I posted it when I posted the first time.
Again the driver was not being answered correctly!

:roll:

YOOPR: Everyone answered if he was within 150 air mile radius he did not have to log.

Better read again-I told him IF he crosses a state Line he has to carry a log book

Slider

Quote:

according to FTC (Federal Transportation Commision) and log book is only required when working outside of a 150 air mile radius of the base termanial.

Slider

nrvsreck

Quote:

Yes, as far as I understand it, it's a 150-mile air radius. Has nothing to do with crossing state lines. If the longest run in 120 miles, you got nothing to worry about.

yoopr

Quote:

I've hauled logs up here and if you're within the radius you don't have to log it unless you're crossing a state line.
keep a sheet of your hours though.

What radius is that? 150 miles? No other post to mention any other radius, are you going with the flow or have incomplete post?

Hearing nothing but incorrect responses Papa Rick says:

Quote:

Hey I really appreciate the info.

Now for another question, do you get the hour sheets from your home state, and if so, do you have to send them back to them every so often.

GMAN offers good advice with:

Quote:

Sealord ask:

Quote:

Could cut logs be considered an agricultural product therefore nothing's required other than a time sheet? BOL

Dawn offers:

Quote:

With a snappy response from yoopr:

Quote:

Don't know why you repeat answers already given other than your copy and paste.

Dawn replies:

Quote:

Again a snappy answer from yoopr:

Quote:

Of course log haulers have CDL's

eurotrucker says:

Quote:

With CDL, just make sure you don't go over the working hours, and you
have to carry a DOT physical card when you cross state line.

Chicago1010 confirms Dawn’s post and says:

Quote:

yoopr forgetting the 100 air mile exception applies to interstate commerce says:

Quote:

Wrong-Log trucks up here have to carry a log when crossing Wi state line while carrying Logs.

This was a Logging thread case you forgot.

kc0iv offers

Quote:

In a nutshell anytime you cross a state line you fall under interstate rules.

Chicago1010 offers:

Quote:

Papa Rick says:

Quote:

yoopr incorrectly says:

Quote:

At that time I offer information relevant to when a log book is not required and……

yoopr says:

Quote:

why all the repeating on this?

Because yoopr and others are still on the 150 air mile radius for non-CDL drivers!

yoopr continues

Quote:

Plus Myth you really don't understand log hauling which is evident.
Guess you never heard of Log Trucks having Farm Plate exemptions.

What is evident is you have your panties in a wad and dislike certain posters.

To ensure yoopr had a good understanding of when there maybe an exception I offered:

Quote:

If the farmer owns the vehicle and is operating it then there may be exceptions. If a for hire carrier is running the logs then they are not exempt.

yoopr is on a roll and is showing he's not quite as well informed as he thought he was.

I don't know of very many logging companies that own the property and havest the lumber. I do know of logging operations that are hired by mills to haul harvested lumber from the hill to the mill.

FYI, I was a choker setter and landing operator for a lumber mill in my younger days.

Be safe.

yoopr off topic says:

Quote:

Dawn makes a quick comment to which yoopr replies:

Quote:

Wrong-Before you two "Experts" came on to this thread the answer was given to the author of this thread a few times by a few people.

Yoopr, FYI, Dawn made the first correct assessment of the situation. However, you continued to post bad information confusing the issue.

FYI, while loggers in Michigan may run farm plates, I doubt they would qualify for the 150 air mile exception from the CDL for farmers. States may allow a vehicle to be farm plated, however, that doesn’t mean the person is a farmer. I can recall a farmer from Idaho who bought a truck from Texas. The farmer was placed OOS at the Cortez scale for no CDL. Another farmer from Oklahoma was sold IRP and fuel permits at the Cortez POE because he did not have apportioned tags or IFTA permit.

License plates are not an automatic exception from the rule. The license plates help the company save money in licensing and do not guarantee exceptions from the FMCSR.

You should hone up on your people skills; your apparent dislike for certain posters reveals your lack of impartial judgment when it comes to poster’s offerings. Your disinformation causes additional posts to ensure the readers are aware of irregularities in your logic.

This post demonstrates that Dawn offered the first correct answer despite yoopr’s claims a correct answer was offered before she came along.

Some have asked why I log on as Myth_Buster instead of JQP. It's because Myth_Buster is appropriate and I am not a regular here as I am on other web sites.

Be safe.

Thanks for arguing my exact point for me. I am glad someone else can actually see the truth of things around here for a change. I am sorry we have to waste our time on the board here (other places don't do this)
explaining ourselves over and over only to make the original poster confused!

Yoopr: WE are here to help and if I want to post any information that I feel might help 1 driver then I should be able to post it. I don't think you have to wait for the question to appear first.
WE don't always have to use the wording in the book, if they understood that they would not be here asking the question. They are asking for more simple explinations or different ways. I can say something and it may not click and someone use's 1 word different and the person picks it right up. You may go through 20 of those before they actually get it!
When everyone meant the same thing! So the more answers that are "the same, different words" is always great. The different answers (not meaning the same) is what throws everyone off.

I may not be a trucker, but I have allot of sympathy for a trucker and I am always here to help the best I can, and being attacked (yeah attacked as usual) is not a great way to greet someone.
But I always say I can hang with the big dogs and the little dogs! :lol:

WHY DOES THIS BOARD KEEP MAKING YOU SIGN IN AND OUT 20,000 TIMES?? No I didn't do spell check sorry for any error's in advance

Dawn.... it's all good, both you and GMAN ( and a few others ) helped me understand a couple of things today, and it's much appreciated.