New to O/O, seeking advice on my plan
 

So, I'm 26 years old and I got my CDL shortly after I turned 21. Since then I've driven all kinds of commercial vehicles, from school buses to city buses to ambulettes and about a year OTR with a large company. Ended in a way typical to many company drivers, just wasn't getting the miles that I needed to eat and still make spending months away from home worth it. I've been going to college for a little while now and i've almost completed my associates degree just by living off and paying tuition out of subsidized/unsubsidized govt student loans. Its simply not enough to survive off of and i've been wanting to get back into trucking for some time now and thats what I'm currently in the process of doing.

I've done a huge amount of research, have a reasonable amount of money saved, and next week I plan on forming my LLC and applying for my authority. I have a company that needs container loads pulled into a port approximately 120 miles from the destination and they've agreed to pay me $525 a load plus 30% fuel surcharge and 80% tolls. I've pulled containers from the same shipper to the same port several times before when working for a small O/O so I'm familiar with the route and all phases involved with the shipper and receiver. I'm going to book 10 loads a week from them and hope to be able to do 2 a day M-F and make up any work on the weekend that I didn't have the time to complete through the week days. If I actually do 10 loads a week for a month at $525 a load then that will come up to an approximate monthly gross of $21,000.

I can't think of a single reason why all of that wouldn't sound good, right? But ofcourse after all of that comes expenses. I've gotten quotes from several insurance companies. Progressive quoted me at $12,600 a year (what a joke) and then following advice from posts on here I contacted OOIDA. They quoted me at $4,600 a year. And then of course theres the truck and thats where I begin to feel a little unsure about this. I have pretty ****ty credit and the only places I'll be able to lease from are one of those shady little places that don't do a credit check and you end up paying an enormous amount for trucks that "have an average of 900k miles". I contacted just about all the big lease companies that were on 5 pages worth of search results and the last one I called was Penske. According to them, they can't lease me a truck until I have a years worth of business credit, BUT, they would be willing to contact a terminal near me and talk to them about doing a long term rental until that time comes. Of cours at first I didn't think that was the best idea but I decided to hear what they have to say anyway. Basically the price of the truck (late model, good on fuel) comes to $350 a week plus 13 cents per mile after 100 miles daily. So when all is said and done that will be $2,450 a month for weekly payments and CPM at an approximate 500 miles daily. Ofcourse a lease would be much, much less than that but of course I won't have to worry about any kind of huge repair expenses while renting a vehicle and considering it's a newer model truck it'll have much better mileage than any lease I could get.

I could carry on about all of the other expenses that we all know I'll incur but you all know what they are. I also already have my TWIC card. This is the basic jist of my business plan and I'm just looking to see what your opinions are. I see how many people on this site go from posting "thinking about getting my own authority" to posting about their experiences as an O/O so its clear that a decent number of people on this site have had success. Well, at least the ones who didn't drink paint when they were little.

I think that it would be best for you to find a company job, save your money, clean up your credit or wait until you can have a good down payment and cash in the bank or pay cash for a decent used truck. I would not want a payment of more than $800-1,000/month at the most. I have picked up and delivered at ports and you can get tied up and kill a lot of time. I find it best when doing projections to under estimate revenue and over estimate expenses. I think that it may be difficult for you to generate the revenue you posted, especially starting out. What if you can only do one load a day? What if there are no loads? What will you do? Do you have a trailer that you can use to haul other freight? What if you need to deliver to a consignee that needs to live unload? If you plan on getting your authority you need to plan on buying a truck and trailer. If not, your options will be sevierly limited. To be honest, you have little experience, little money and poor credit. That is not a good way to start any business. If you want to achieve success in business it is usually best to have some current experience and enough capital to get started. The unexpected can and will happen. Unless you are prepared you will likely find it difficult to survive. If your experience has been within the last 2-3 years you may find a company position with a carrier. You may also be able to lease to a good carrier. If your experience is older then you may need to find a carrier that will either put you with a trainer for a few weeks or take a refresher course in order to get started. But, unless you can buy a decent truck you will still not be any better off. If you have enough money to pay down you may find more suitable financing, especially with more experience. Lenders place a premium on your level of experience.

First, I have experience with the shipper and they have containers going to several ports and I can book as many loads as I can take on. Theres also another shipper in the area who has container loads going to the same destinations but the one I spoke of is simply preferable. Second, I'm not starting out with absolutely no money, just not enough to be able to go out and buy the kind of truck that I'd like. All of you carry on about "90 to 120 days of operating capital" but I would really like to know how many of you had that or were even relatively close to being capable of getting that kind of money together. I understand that you guys see tons of people come on here with some "dollar and a dream" kind of bull**** but I'm not that kind of guy. I've never been the kind of person to make impulsive decisions and I always take my time thinking things through. I understand entirely all of the expenses involved, I have experience driving OTR, I have experience working for another O/O pulling containers out of the same shipper to the same destinations. Obviously rental isn't ideal, obviously ideally you would like to have an enormous bank account to start out with, obviously every one of us would ideally want to live in a perfect world. The key phrase is "start out with." You have to start somewhere. I probably wouldn't try to do this if my situation in the beginning would be permanent, but it won't be. Its simply a matter of making do to make something work, improvising.

Anyway, any advice you guys have other than "don't do it" would be appreciated.

Thanks

I don't believe that I said "don't do it", but I would not do it myself. The truck payment is much too high starting out. You have apparently already made up your mind and only want advice from those who agree with you. If you want to do it then no one will stop you. Successful people look at more than one side to a business decision. Some of us did start with money in the bank to run us before we ventured out with our own authority. I started out by saving enough money to pay cash for my first truck and trailer. Others have done the same thing. There have also been those who started out on a shoestring and made it work. Those are in the minority. I don't know much about you other than what you have posted. You only have about a year of experience and part of that is working for an owner operator. That is not much experience and things are different when you are the one who is responsible for paying the bills and finding loads. I wonder if you have considered whether you can make it with only one container per day? I have hauled containers and with few exceptions the rates are not that great. I have hauled them when the rates are good. If didn't mention whether you would need to furnish your own trailer or have access to one from the shipper.

i have considered the possibility of only being able to do one container a day. Of course that would be the worst case scenario but you're righ when you say that its necessary to be prepared for the worst and low ball your expected income. If I was only able to do one load a day five days a week for an entire month I would still bring home a little over one thousand a week and thats with high balling all of my expenses. As for the containers, they're all loaded and waiting for you when you get there. I'll be doing weekly bookings and they do settlements twice a week. If by chance the work dried up and there was no loads theres another place I can get containers from and bring them to the same port, its all drop and hook. I also do have access to a trailer if for some reason there were no loads available from either. The owner operator I worked for is also able to book me loads in the event of not being able to find any myself.

It is important to keep expenses down, especially starting out. If you take your time you should be able to find an older truck that is in good shape for under $20,000. Sometimes, you can find an older truck that has had an overhaul and other repairs before the owner decided to sell or trade it in on something newer. You can find some junk, but there are also some good buys if you keep your eyes open and take your time. Just because a truck shows high mileage doesn't necessarily mean that it is not in good shape or had major work. If the owner doesn't have the paperwork you can always run the vin number or engine serial number to find what has been done. If work was performed at an authorized dealer it should be very easy to document.

The hardest part of the trucking business is the sales end; that's why the vast majority of O/O's are leased to somebody. You've done the hard part already; securing the freight. The operations part is easy. Renting a truck is actually a good way to go in the situation you've described. You know what you're revenue per load will be and you know approximately what most of your fixed costs and your biggest variable cost (fuel) will be. You still don't know two huge parts of the equation; what your vehicle maintenance will run you and, most importantly, how many loads you'll be able to do. With a rental your maintenance is taken care of (your physical damage should be too). Also, if for some reason your freight dries up or you just can't get in the number of runs you'd hoped, you can terminate the rental agreement with no penalty. Too many people think that the most important thing starting out is to have low expenses; they're wrong. The most important thing is to have stable and predictable expenses. If you know what your costs are going to be, you can plan accordingly. Even if your costs are going to be high, you know where your revenues have to be. If you can't get them there, you don't start the venture.

Your numbers pencil out. You'll most likely net less than you would if you owned your equipment. However, the flexibility that you gain, along with the time to prove the predictability of your revenue stream before making a capital investment, is worth far more than the forgone profit. If in 6 months or a year things have worked out like you hoped, go buy the truck you want and settle in for the long haul.

Thanks for the advice no_worries, I appreciate it. I formed an S-type corporation a few days ago and tomorrow I'm going to be calling OOIDA to get my authority. I've actually decided to just go ahead and buy a used truck. I know its a risk and theres lots of unforseen costs for maintenance and so on but I just need to keep it running for long enough to get decent business credit so I can finance the truck I really want. GMAN was right about the costs of renting. Penske gave me a little bit of a jerk around and when it finally came down to making a deal the terms weren't as agreeable as the person I originally had spoken to told me they would be. Of course I wouldn't have to worry about repairs and so on like you said, however, I'll make a lot more without having to worry about those payments and I'm hoping that difference will at the very least make up costs I'll incur for maintenance. I found a pretty nice 05 Columbia for a really great price that I have my eye on. I wanted to ask you guys if you had any suggestions for places I could look for used trucks other than truckpaper and where I could find some kind of directory of loads going to or coming out of NY/NJ ports. I want to be prepared incase the work I have lined up drys up for some reason. Any other advice you guys have for me will be highly appreciated.

I don'r recall where you live, but Schneider is selling some of their fleet off for as little as $12,000. They are Freightliners. I received an email from them a few days ago about them. I wasn't interested in buying any more trucks so I deleted it. You might do a search or call them and find it. They have more expensive trucks for sale, but these should have had decent maintenance. Lone Mountain leases trucks. They have 3 locations. I don't know anything about them other than what I have read on this forum. Arrow Truck Sales has several locations all over the country. I believe they are owned by Volvo. There is a publication you can find in some convenience stores called Big Truck Trader. They sometimes have good deals. I have found some of my best deals by driving around and checking out trucks at different dealers. Some sell trucks themselves. My last truck I found at Peterbilt. I got a very good deal on it. Another time I bought an International from a dealer who was selling it for the owner. It was a one owner and the guy wanted to retire. I bought it below wholesale. If you take your time you can find good deals. Some trucks you find at dealers are over priced. Taking your time allows you to look around and find the right deal. You may also check with some of the equipment financing companies. They often sell their repo's. If you have cash or your own financing you are also a step ahead when it comes to buying a truck. Dealers often have the means to find suitable financing, but you may get better terms on your own.

Ok fellas, need even more advice. Just found an 05 Columbia that I think I'm going to buy. It was a trade in at a Volvo dealership and they tell me everthing with it is totally sound. It has a Mercedes MBE 4000 in it and a reman super 10 transmission thats relatively new. Does anyone have anything to say about Mercedes engines? Some places I hear drivers have nothing but problems with them.

Stay away. Don't bother. The pre-egr ones were okay, but as soon as egr came in they were among the worst engines. I'll second GMANS recommendation for a former schneider truck, but make it 2003 or older. 2.64 gears, with a 12.7 DDC4 detroit should get you the best fuel mileage possible. Those trucks are good for around 60-65 mph.

I don't those gears will be good for local drayage. Try for 3.73s.

I have spoken to some who say that they get better fuel mileage with the Mercedes engine than some of the others on the market. They have also said that the engine doesn't pull as well as Cummins, Detroit or CAT. Repairs are likely to be expensive since you will usually need to go back to a dealer for parts and possibly service. I can't ever see me buying a truck that has a brand specific engine, such as Mercedes, Paccar or International. I used to only own Detroit engines and they are reliable and do well on fuel. I would try to find a truck with one of the other engines. If you go with Freightliner then you are more likely to find one with a Detroit than any other brand. Parts and service are easily available and they are proven reliable. If you do decide to buy this truck with the Mercedes engine then come back and let us know how you like it and how well it performs.

I think I'm going to stay away from it, I just can't afford to risk it. The truck is beautiful and it's in great condition but I hear too many negative things. Some people on other message boards and reviews and such praise it, say it gets better mileage than anything else, say it'll run forever if you just do decent PM. However, everyone else is saying basically what you guys are. That they don't pull for ****, the engine break is a joke, etc. My price range is about 15k so I'm having a little difficulty finding the truck I want. Over anything I would prefer an 03 or newer Volvo with autoshift (going from where I live to NY/NJ ports is lots of stop and go traffic) but I'm flexable and willing to travel. The Schneider trucks are pretty nice like you guys reccommended but I just can't get over that god awful color. I'm very particular about things and I'm going to search the world over before I fold and get a truck with that ugly orange. Of course I could just get it painted but I don't have the money for luxury expenses like that. Anyway, I really appreciate the advice guys. I'm gona make sure it wasn't for nothing.

2.64's with a direct 10 speed is almost identical to 3.55's with an overdrive 10 speed. It's just more efficient.

You can always drive the truck for a few months until you can save to have it painted. Just put a big "T" on the side and people will think that you are a Tennessee Vol fan. :cool:

Just to give you a heads up. I just had my daycab Mack painted. cost me 2200.00 Thats with no door jams. Cuz the r model macks dont have paint in the door jams

Can you explain this to me?

Found a pretty nice Volvo with autoshift for a good price but the color is even worse. It's purple. I'm too picky.

Yes I can. The 2.64 or 3.55 is the "final drive ratio" which is the ratio of how many times the driveshaft turns vs. the tires. 2.64 turns of the driveshaft, and the tires turn once.

Primarily transmissions come in a "direct drive" or "overdrive" flavor. Here's some ratios:

Transmission Manual HD

Compare the direct drive 10 speed (final ratio 1:1) to the overdrive 10 speed(final ratio .75:1)

In first gear:

14.8 X 2.64 = 39.072:1
11.6 X 3.55 = 39.263:1

In final gear:

1 X 2.64 = 2.64
.75 X 3.55 = 2.6625

If you took these two trucks there's no way you could tell a difference just by driving them. They would shift exactly the same.

So, one isn't better than the other? When it comes down to it they're basically the same? Do people prefer one ratio over another and if so why?

The 2.64 ratio is better when it comes to fuel mileage, I do not think there's any downside. With the 2.64 ratio the entire driveline spins slower, sucking less power. The torque also goes directly through the transmission, the countershafts are still spinning but there's no power.

Okay guys, another question. I found an 04 Volvo 670 that I like. It has a 400 HP D12. Of all the other trucks I see in truck paper that one is on the lower end of horsepower. Do you think that would be sufficient for my application or that it would be a bit weak?

i should read about what your application is. i browsed and saw it said containers. i ran rail cans for almost a year. all i'm saying is i'm happy that i had a cat. but if you are slow and do things the right way it shouldnt matter. i personally do not like the volvo motors. people swear by them.

if i was you, i'd look in to a used truck from ryder. i got my columbia for 27k after a 1 year warranty. a freak thing happend and the motor had to be overhauled but other then that the truck is damn solid.

for the specs:
2004 columbia 70' condo
MBN C15 cat (435 hp)
3.73 rears
10 speed.

just took a trip to MI with is. 6.3 mpg hitting every hill at 70. the engine fan was messed up due to too much freeon and the motor is still breaking in.

Can i poke my head in here. Im not an oo though ive thought about it. I HAVE run a business though and an insanely competitive one. People say you should have 3 months or whatever expenses here.. in normal business it's 6 months. Thing is with trucking that is an insane amount of money. HAving money saved up will take your life from hell and possibly losing everything to smoothing over the potholes. (some giant scary ones). The more the better. What are you going to do when a customer doesnt pay you for 2 months. Or you can sign for those services whree they pay you now and they take a percentage... but 3% off the top is rough. What if you have a bad month or something happens, you have freight contracts but half a tank of fuel and no money left... running hard you can spend 3 or 4 grand a week EASY on fuel. IF you signed onto a company though that would be much less of a problem. Theyre going to make sure you have fuel anddont starve as long as you run. Good luck and remember take some you time and some time off and force yourself not to work 24/7. Cause the big secret about owning your own business is really that you are never not working.

Yep, I know how much fuel costs. Thanks for the reminder.

So, I finally found the truck I'm going to buy. It's an 04 Volvo VNL 630. Has a 475 Cummins in it and an autoshift transmission. Couldn't be more excited to get it. I'd post some pictures but apparently you cant copy and paste from truck paper. Still not totally pleased on the color though. It's not the ugly Scheider orange or the gay looking purple, it's torquoise. I can live with it though. One thing in the back of my mind though is that it's a mid-roof sleeper as opposed to a high-rise sleeper, which is what im used to. How much less space to you think there will be?

Mid roof vs condo is a preference thing. I like condos cant stand midroofs they make me feel like im living in a box (heh). I know people who prefer midroof and a lot of flatbedders wont drive anything else because their cargo isnt usually tall and that means they just dont have to worry about clearances. The thing i would worry about if i were you is that autoshift. I drove a little truck with one once and it freaked me the hell out. It was literally like someone else shifting the gears for me.. not like a car. And ive talked to some autoshift drivers who said its fine on the road but that if they got stuck or when starting off with something heavy they sucked hardcore. Plus i imagine they are $$$$$$$$$ to repair. I cant imagine driving an autoshift big truck.. Ive never heard a volvo driver who had Anything but good to say about the trucks except the REALLY old ones and some whiners who literally criticise everything. Theyre like petes/prostars/western stars once people get into them they never seem to want any other kind of truck. I sat in one a bit talkin to a guy and the interior was awesome.. best interior setup ive ever seen bar none. And that is going to matter to you a LOT

Yeah the first truck I ever drove as a company driver was a Peterbilt but I hated it. When I went to go pick it up in texas the passenger side window had a bullet hole in it and the back was full of used condoms and empty mini bottles of whisky. After a while I eventually got the chance to dump it and they put me in a Volvo with a hi-rise sleeper and I fell in love with it. I'm just wondering what the actual size difference is and how much smaller the interior of this one will be. I'm about 6'4 so I atleast need enough space to stand up straight in the back.

You should not have a problem standing up in a midroof, being 6'4". Condo's waste a lot of room. A midroof is the best of both worlds. It has more headroom than a flat top and less wind resistance than a condo. I had an opportunity to put 77,000 on a new Volvo autoshift. It took some getting used to with the autoshift. After 2-3 weeks I began to adjust. At the time I was running a lot of Chicago and not having to shift in rush hour traffic was great. I don't like how they wait so long to downshift going up mountains and you have to manually downshift going down. I would not want to have to pay for a rebuild on one of those autoshifts. A mechanic told me once that it costs about $13,000.

If you are concerned about whether you can comfortably stand up and if you will like the amount of room, you may see if you can find a dealer that has one similar and get in and check it out for yourself. You want a sleeper that is comfortable, but about the only time you will be standing in the sleeper is changing clothes or doing some housekeeping.

I loved autoshifts from the first time I ever drove one. People carry on about their manuals but having an autoshift allows you to pay more attention to your driving and reduce your risk of having an accident big time. I know nothing about the costs of repairing or fixing one but I have been told that they're just as reliable if not more reliable than a manual. Being that it's entirely computerized and shifts perfectly every single time there's much less strain on the transmission and all that. Do you guys know anything about programming your truck to get better mileage? I was reading something about that on another board and everyone was raving about it. Also, can you explain to me the point of fuel cards and why I might want one and maybe which I should get? On my route the only big truck stop I'll be passing is Pilot.

Some people like autoshift and others don't. I think it has more to do with where you drive. Those who drive in a lot of stop and go traffic will probably like them more than those doing cross country or mountains. I knew a driver who always went through his gears manually, even though he had an autoshift. He just couldn't give up his manual shift. I am sure that you can alter the programming to the type of driving you do so that the transmission shifts more appropriately. The primary factor in fuel mileage is the driver. I don't know if there is anything that can be done programming wise that will improve your fuel economy. Keeping your speed down and maintaining a constant speed will help mileage more than probably any other factors. You may also change your gear ratios, but that can get expensive. The type of terrain and loads will also factor in to your fuel mileage.

Most carriers issue fuel cards to drivers and owner operators who lease to them. Using fuel cards serves several purposes. First, it is a good way to easily track expenses and drivers. Although your fuel tickets are usually not time stamped, the carrier can check the time and location each time your card is used. It tells the carrier who used the card, truck number, driver, time and place. Before fuel cards we had to take cash to pay for fuel and road expenses. Fuel was less than 10% of what we spend today. If a driver needed more money then the carrier had to wire additional funds via Western Union. Fuel cards also enable carriers to get fuel discounts using their economies of scale or buying power. Most who use owner operators will receive part or all of the discount which helps lower fuel costs and increases profitability. One other factor is that it helps to keep track of fuel taxes much easier than only relying on fuel receipts. The carrier can print out reports which lists fuel purchases by driver, truck or the fleet. Reports can usually be printed for the week, month, quarter or annually. Many carriers will give fuel advances to drivers and owner operators through their fuel cards. Most will pay drivers and owner operators their settlements either direct deposit or fuel card. Some have a separate fuel card for fuel and expenses and another for the settlement. It is just another tool that helps carriers to better manage their businesses.

Most carriers use Comdata. There are several other major fuel cards, such as T Check, EFS and TCH. Most use one of these, but there are a few others such as Wright. At one time Comdata was probably the most widely accepted. The others that I mentioned currently are widely accepted. All charge a set up fee, if you are the account holder, and then a transaction fee each time the card is used.

So, which do you think would be best for me? I'd like one where I can get something back from it, you know? I was reading on another forum about a driver who got two vacations to Hawaii in one year but that kind of sounded like bull**** to me.

I have not heard of anyone getting free trips through any of the fuel cards. American Express had a program where you could accumulate points that could be used for travel. I met a guy who took a trip around the world with all of his points. I don't remember if they still have that program. Other credit cards may also have programs, but you will usually increase your fuel costs using a regular credit card.

I don't understand why you only want to fuel at Pilot, but if they are your stop of choice and you want to get your own fuel card, then you may want to look into opening an account with TAB (Transportation Alliance Bank). At one time the bank was owned by Flying J. They cater to the trucking industry. TAB offers a Mastercard debit card that works like a TCH card at most fuel stops so that you can get the cash price at most fuel stops. If you fuel at Pilot or Flying J you receive $0.02/gallon on any fuel purchases. Anywhere else you can use it like a credit or debit card for other purchases. There are no transactions fees with the PDCA card, either. That can save $2.00 or more per fuel purchase. They have both credit and debit cards. I would recommend the debit card for fuel purchases. You can fund it with any of the major fuel cards or checks, direct deposit, wire transfers, etc., TChecks, Comchecks and TCH checks can be called in over the phone or you can deposit them over the internet and they will be in your account in minutes. I believe their address is www.tabbank.com. You may also be able to pick up an application at any Flying J or Pilot. It is called a PDCA Card. It stands for Professional Driver Carrier Association. I believe that you can also get some discounts on tire purchases if you use the card. The PDCA card doesn't offer the reports that the regular fuel cards utilize, but it is much more flexible. For the single truck operator it is a good way to track road expenses if used as a separate account. You can also use the account to write checks, pay bills online, etc. The fuel cards are primarly used for fuel purchases and as a means to cover breakdown expenses. If you strictly want a fuel card, then I like TCH. They all do the same thing. As I recall, the transaction fees are lower than with the other cards. Next to TCH I like Comdata. But, the PDCA card may be used as a TCH card, but doesn't offer the reports that breakdown all expenses.

Oh no, I don't care where I fuel. I'm going to fuel where ever it's cheapest. I was just saying that Pilot is the only big truck stop along my route. I really appreciate the information, you've been really helpful

what i do is a lot of places now are giving cash prices while using debit as long as you ask. if you want to use points american express is the best. personally i rather use cash the credit.

GMAN, what part of Tennessee you from? Any experience with Mason-Dixon, CRST Malone, or Universal Am-Can? I am looking into getting my CDL and would be looking to be based out of the Nashville area. My wife's hometown is in Fairview, and we have been looking at a few houses in the Dickson area.

Hey guys, I hope everyone is doing well. It feels like its been a hundred years since I last posted, so much has happened since the first time I came on here asking for advice. I bought an 04 Volvo with a 475 HP Cummins in it. I drove it home from Ohio to NY and I have to say it was was the nicest ride I ever had in a truck. Of course I was bobtail but let me tell you that thing has BALLS. That might not be saying much coming from me though, I'm used to governed company trucks. I have just about everything lined up at this point. Just waiting for my authority to finally come through which should be any day now. I really can't wait to get working and the company I'm going to be running for has been tellng me I need to get rolling ASAP. Anyway, I already have one small issue (hopefully small) that requires help from you guys as usual. Apparently after bringing the truck home I didn't slam the door hard enough and the battery died. How do I go about putting a charge on it? Is there any way I can do that with a pick up truck or maybe a couple cars at the same time or will I have to call a local diesel shop and have them send someone out to jump it for me? I feel pretty naive and stupid asking and I realize its something I should know. I just never had a reason to know it until now. Also, my truck has a bunch of chicken lights on it that the previous owner installed. As luck would have it, they do not work. From what I understand, if you have any extra lights on your truck they need to be working even though they're extra. I think I found whats wrong with them but I'm not totally sure how I should proceed. It appears that where two electrical lines for the chicken lights meet has a lot of corrosion and it just broke the connection, if that makes any sense. I'm not sure how else to phrase it. The area thats corroded looks like two little plastic cups that plug in together. If you guys don't understand me I'll take some pictures in the morning.

As always your help is hugely appreciated. You guys really have been great.

I guess it's too late for me to recommend that you go back and read no_worries' post again LOL.

Yeah I've don that lots. It just takes a long time. If yo buy one of those big ass AC booster chargers on wheels with a 40 or 60 amp boost charge that will get it fired up right away.

I guess it's too late for me to recommend that you go back and read no_worries' post again LOL. :)

Yep. A good thing to keep in mind when you get the urge to add more lights.

Sounds like someone used bullet connectors on your truck. They have no place on a truck IMO. Cut the connectors out, remove any multiple splices by running a new wire, strip the wires, slide a piece of shrink tube over the wire, twist the wires together, solder the connection, shrink the tube, flip the switch and when they still don't work, get out your meter and keep looking. :)

Good luck. I hate changing trucks. After 6 years, I'm still tweaking the one I have. I'd hate to start the process all over again.