Spec'ing a TRIdem stepdeck
 

OK, no more RGN for me..

Let's hear some views on spec'ing a tridem step. Don't actually need a tridem but our Heavy Haul allows me to permit heavy loads with a tridem. So, it's good for the future and stuff over 49,000 lbs (what I can haul legally now).

Wilson has a sloped gooseneck (45% angle), so that you can move tractors and such from the lower deck onto the upper deck. The option costs just over $1,000. I think it's a good thing to have.

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Here's what I picture:

Total length: 53
Top deck: 10 ft
Kingpin setting: 16" (all RGNs have 10ft decks and 16" kingpins, what's good for them should be good for a step)
Lower deck: 43 ft
Gooseneck: sloped, 45% angle (see the pic above)
Composition: combo (steel plus aluminum)
In-the floor tiedowns (6,500 lb rating)
Double spools
Stake pockets
Aluminum floor with 4 nailers
Steel coil package? (loads of pre-tarped steel coils from IN to ON, Canada) pay 3 bucks per mile
Tridem: 72" spread between axles; this would give me the highest weight rating in ON and USA

3 m to 3.6 m - 24,000 KG
3.6 m to 3.7 m - 26,000 KG or 57,200 lbs

72" between each axle is 3.65 m for the entire tridem group, hence the 26,000 KG allowance.

Wheels/tires: I have been bit**ing about my tiny tires but the reality is they DO allow to pick up some DD loads: with my 36" deck I can move stuff up to 10'6" tall, so I'd probably get a tridem with the same 17.5' tires, all aluminum wheels.

D-rings: I don't have these on my current step, but I"m thinking it'd be good to have them to tie down heavy equipment, at least 3 or 4 on each side.

Winches: Wilson finally has come up with a new design for the stepdeck winches and they no longer SCRATCH the side panel. Instead, they run on a rail underneath, just like in most flatbeds. Neat!

PS: In Western Canada (Alberta) you get 24,000 KG maximum if the tridem is between 3 m and 3.7 m.

Maybe you could get a rear lift axle, lift it when you don't need it to save tires and brakes and it will corner better as well, u don't need a switch in the cab, i have seen trailer that have a switch on the trailer to lift or drop the axle.

That sounds like a good idea but it'll probably add still more weight and cost. When I sit down with the dealer, I'll ask about this. I'm kind of tired a bit from moving my current step where the axles are stuck at the 41 ft mark. The offtrack is huge and there's nothing I can do about it, as the axles are fixed.

A few thoughts:

- This trailer will be heavy. Even all aluminum would be around 11.5k-12k properly equipped
- Look into lift axles
- There are some that can even make you a 13" kingpin with 8 foot upper. Chaparral comes to mind (all aluminum)
- At these weights you really have to mind the frame ratings. As well as clearance for your rear bumper.
- Isn't this the same trailer I told you to spec out before you bought that wilson? ;)
- Get Michelin XTA 2 energy tires, not XTA energy. The first have better weight ratings. The second you cannot even fully load in Canada.

If you're going to go with an RGN soon, why bother buying a new trailer now? I'd recommend sticking with what you have. If not, you might be able to sell me this 53' trailer in 2 years as long as it's light enough.

Here's a few:

2011 REITNOUER BIG BUBBA DROP W/35" DECK HEIGHT Drop Deck For Sale At TruckPaper.com
2012 MAC ALUMINUM 3-AXLE Drop Deck For Sale At TruckPaper.com

I don't think that mac is a 2012, it's been for sale for quite a while

2006 DOONAN COMBO Tri-Axle Drop deck Drop Deck For Sale At TruckPaper.com

ack, only a 48.

If you're worried about that there's a way around it. You can weld a small chail to the top of the axle you want lifted, with a hook on the frame above it. You'll also need to isolate the two air bags on that axle. Dump the air out of everything, and attach and tighten the chain to the hook on the frame, isolate the two airbags, then reinflate the air level system. Voila a lift axle with almost no cost and almost no weight gain. The problem is you have to get under the trailer every time you want to lift or lower an axle. Also consider the ABS system.

If you go with a 45 degree rake you can't end up with a 53 foot trailer with 10 foot top deck and 43 foot bottom.
My Doonan three axle step both the number two and three axles lifted that way it could be run short WB two axle, spread axle or three axle. The only increase in weight is the extra air bag that lifts the axle.

Wilson has a sloped gooseneck (45% angle), so that you can move tractors and such from the lower deck onto the upper deck. The option costs just over $1,000. I think it's a good thing to have.

A couple of short ramps will do the same thing, you need to spec a trailer that you can sell when the time comes.

May not be legal in Canada with #2 and #3 lifted especially if you have a short KP setting.

I could make more money with a 53, and then get some heavy haul experience with the tridem. Trailers now - even new - are cheaper than mine, thanks to the strong Canadian dollar.

Here's a 94 Wilson with a sloped gooseneck and a tridem. Doesn't it look good ;) I don't know ... that sloped gooseneck makes sense to me.

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That's part of the problem. You're going to lose a lot of money selling your current trailer, then again when you sell the new trailer.

But if there's a company out there that you would benefit having a 53 foot 17.5 step, it would probably be landstar.

dont be scared.

2011 TALBERT 2011 Talbert 55 Ton Hydraulic Detachable LowBoy Tr Lowboy For Sale At TruckPaper.com

Buy that and go make the big bucks.

Here's an idea that might work for me: keep the same trailer and the same monthly payments, but when I have some extra money, take my 48 ft step to a trailer body shop and get to install the 3rd axle in front of the first one in the group. Then turn the middle axle into a 'lift' axle. In this way I can run the trailer as a 121" tandem spread, or - when it's required - as heavy duty tridem. I had a steel coil package installed on the trailer at the factory, so the frame is very strong. This option might be great for those occasional ultra-heavy loads that pay so well. This investment would also increase the value of the trailer for tax purposes.

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Now Tracer......I seem to recall suggesting that you get a 53 and you got a 48. I suggested you not go with the Conestoga and you wound up taking it off. I almost hesitate to do this, for fear that you will do the opposite LOL, but now I am suggesting you take Heavy Duty's advice and stay away from the sloped deck. You can get the front tractor tires up on that top deck.......we do it all the time.

I do like your idea about adding the axle though. However, I don't think I've ever heard of it being done before.

Rank, you already have a half of the local Ontario market covered with your 53 ft Wilson that has a 10'1 spread and low deck :) I need to be a little bit different. I probably won't have money for a new trailer but I can improve on my current setup with this extra axle. Now I"m trying to remember what shop I talked about it to ... I know they said it can be done. And the gooseneck stays at 90 degrees ;)

Used to run into Canada with it to the oil fields and thru to Alaska all the time. Only time would run with both 2 and 3 up was deadheading, never pulled a light enough load to be able to run a single axle :)

Do you use portable ramps for that?

4 wheel drive tractors should climb right up

So will Hummers, and most 4wheel drive Army trucks

The shipper usually has ramps if they're needed. Yes, most 4 wheel drive tractors will climb up without ramps but you have s deeper drop than most so I don't know about that in your case, and yes we sometimes cobble up some sort of ramp system.....it doesn't take much. A couple of 6x6's and a plank for a ramp. Putting the load levelers at the base of the drop works too....oh yeah, I forgot you sold your levelers. You musta went through a dry box phase or something. :)

When I was with MacKinnon they required I carry ramps but I received 1 load with ramps every ... 6 months. I'm not kidding. That's 2 (two) loads a year! I finally got tired of moving them around and sold them. They were taking about 1 ft in the very front of the lower deck and I didn't like that.

RE: Drop. Yes, that's the problem - my drop is quite big. It was difficult to get that Chevy pickup truck's front axle on the upper deck.

Speaking of stepdecks vs flats, I just lost a load paying 15 (!) bucks per loaded mile from PA to ON. These were steel coils, small tarps required, 300 D/H, 250 Loaded. Weighed 47,300 lbs and it paid this much because very few flatbed guys in US could take so much weight?! That's what the Agent told me when I called. I almost got it but then she learned I had a LOW PROFILE step and that was the dealbreaker. This particular shipper had some bad experiences with low trailers in the past (they got stuck either on the railway crossing inside the plant or at the crest of the entrance door to the warehouse). So, they didn't want to load low profile stepdecks :( The sad part of the story is I can take up to 49,000 lbs LEGALLY on my step and I was ready to buy 4 small tarps at Walmart. That $15/mi rate got me all excited ;) I still can't believe all they wanted was a plain jane 48 ft flat!!!

Believe it nor I talked with the Lead Engineer at Wilson Trailers in Iowa today! Took some effort but I finally got the answer to my trailer modification question, and Wilson said, "Yes, it can be done." The engineer said, "If you add another axle IN FRONT of the existing axle, you'll be closing the bridge, so the trailer will become stronger, not weaker." He offered to walk the Ontario trailer guys through the procedure, in case they had any questions. I just emailed this shop and asked them to give me 2 quotes: 1 for adding the third axle and the second for moving the front axle forward and creating a 121" fixed spread. It'll probably be $10K for Option 1 and around $5K for Option 2. A 121" tridem is rated in ON for 24,000 KG or 52,800 lbs. I don't want them to add deck space because that would really affect the resale value because of the seams.

My ad for the trailer is now on the Trailers Canada site and also on truckandtrailer.ca Didn't cost me a thing. The dealer is doing me a favor.

You still own the conestoga? I thought you sold that back to the dealer.

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$3750 on 250 miles? Damn I hate coils but it's hard to argue with that. How many coils to make up that 47K? Where in PA...Pitt?

I just gave it to them on consignment so that they sell it. I still own the darn thing. They said people come to them looking for used Conestogas, but most of the time these are people with flatbed trailers.

I don't remember the name of the town but it was closer than Pittsburgh. It was on the board for 10 minutes only. I think the load had more than 3 coils. Coils are actually not that hard to haul, but you need strong frame ('steel coil package'). The coil loads I saw on our board all paid pretty good. Here's one load I did with coils - this was one of my firsts and I spent a lot of time on it.

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Here's a more or less typical example with hauling coils out of US to Canada.

Origin: KY
Destination: ON, Canada
Weight: 45,000
Type: coils
Tarp: required
Loaded miles: 550
Gross rate per mie: $2.85 (including FSC).

The weight is a bit on the heavy side, but I think the rate is quite good, especially when you keep ALL the money (unlike me).

So you want to increase you empty weight by adding a axle? You can't rig up to haul heavy and be light enough to haul coils. I say save the money and try chasing coils.

I have a 3 axle DD stretch but rarely haul heavy, the money is in big and bulky, heavy equipment don't pay enough most of the time. To much competion.

How about LTL steel to Canada, should be able to put together some good loads. If you like I can PM you the best LTL agents in Il, don't know how much Canada they get but you can call and visit.

I was wondering about that weight thing. One the one hand, the extra axle can give you up to 45,000 lbs per tridem in USA (with a permit) or 52,900 lbs in Canada, on the other it adds weight. Your comment about BIG and BULKY makes sense. A regular 48 ft flat is probably better for this than a stepdeck? I don't have my authority yet, I have to use Landstar agents for now... But I can do coils with no sweat: my truck and trailer are very light. Properly distributed I can haul 49,000 lbs. The trailer has steel coil package (reinforced frame in the middle). I still think a large spread axle is a good thing to have, especially on a short step, like mine. Right now, if I get something 35 ft long and it weighs 45,000 lbs (loaded on the main deck only), I know my 61" trailer axles will be OVER 34,000 lbs. That Conestoga that I took off would be good for coils ;) but it takes off 2,000 lbs of the maximum load weight I could take.

On the other hand, LS does have loads for tridem stepdecks! Check this listing from today:

Origin: USA
Destination: Canada
Dimensions: 33 ft long, 11.2" wide, 10.5" tall
Weight: 59,000 lbs
Gross revenue: $7,000 for 1,600 loaded miles

If I had 3 axles on my 48 ft step, I could probably do it, even with a regular tractor (12K + 40K factory rating axles). That's $4.35/mi.

I think you can still move that load. You have to permit it for width anyway, so the extra $ to permit the gross and the axles is no big deal. Usually $.30/ton*mile for the weight that needs permitting. I've done with an RGN with a closed spread so I don't see why you couldn't do it with a step.

How much weight are your trailer tires rated for?

I'm not sure.. They are 245/70R17.5. If it's 600 lbs per inch of the tire's width, then 245 mm equals 10 nches and the tire can take up to 6000 lbs at the maximum pressure of 125 psi. I'll see what's written on the tire itself tomorrow, when it's light. Bridgestone website only has information on 215/70R17.5.

You can permit 12-40-40 92000, but plan on 500-800 for permits plus some out of route miles plus you can't run in bad weather.

I know you are with LS, I was offering to give you agent numbers, 2 of the best LTL agents in the Chicago area, they have their own customers, not broker freight, both have been at it over 20 yrs.

I forgot one thing, to permit for overweight in some states you need a maxium weight tag, not the 80000 tag you probably have.

Heavy duty, I'm new to this overweight trucking. That money for permits - "500-800" - would that be for EACH overweight trip? Or is it an annual fee? How do I increase the rating on my truck? Just call our Permit Dept and pay a fee for a higher tag? I know the GVW cannot exceed the factory ratings of the axles, but I'm pretty sure my truck is rated for 52,000 lbs gross (12 +40). So, I can probably 'buy' the 92,000 GVW rating you mentioned. Is that how it works?

That'll be for a single trip, depending on how many states you need to run through. You can get an annual overweight for NY I think.....$400 IIRC.

I haven't hauled over 80,000 in all the states, and you didn't mention what state this 59,000 originated in, but I am plated for 80,000 in the US and I've been granted permits for 90,000 in FL, GA, SC, NC, VA, WV, MD, PA, NY. I'm thinking you're good to go in those states.

As far as permit costs go, NY is the most expensive that I have run across. They are $40 + I need to use a permit service because NY won't deal with just anyone. I use Nova Permits and they charge $35. Total cost for NY is therefore $75. Toll roads require a separate permit too, BTW. NYSTA is $26 for over dimensional and their weight limit is pretty high so you may not need to permit the weight on the toll road. Watch out for MA...their overweight permits are OUTRAGEOUS once you get over a certain weight.

I thought the LS agents took care of permits for the BCO's?

Don't have time for details now but 92000 in OK $160 plus service fee, TX $210 plus, LA about $120, KS $18, IL $125, AR $150,GA $40, AL 440, OH is expensive. You can ask the agent for estimated permit charges. $560 in Ok for 132,000

If the load is inclusive permits come out of linehaul, if plus plus the customer pays actual permit charges. some states require you be plated for max weight, some will issue a permit without but it is expensive if you get checked.

Some good info on LS site under info, Heavy and spec service

You need to pick a permit service from the list to order your permits from, don't use Comdata. They will need truck and trailer lic number serial number, year and make and axle spacings measure from 1-2 2-3 3-4 4-5 be accurate some states measure. Most permit services charge $15-$20 to order a permit.

I thought the LS agents took care of permits for the BCO's?

Wrong, you are treated as an adult, you can use any approved permit service, route yourself, saves a lot of problems and misunderstandings. You also hire and fire your escorts.

I found that section of the site, thanks. Now I don't think I want to do oversize at all :) Too many headaches. Maybe I should get a lightweight 48 ft flat (10'1" spread) and then I can carry up to 50,000 lbs without any permits and have shippers jump for joy seeing all that available space on the deck ;)

I tried to tell you the money in flat and step is LTL. You find a piece that pays truck load that doesn't max you out then fill the trailer with LTL.

I have a piece on now that is 30' long, 15'6" wide and 13'6" tall on the ground, see what your missing. Permits,escorts, detours and weather.

Well, there's oversize and then there's oversize. Anything under 10' is practically legal anyway. Can't even hardly call that OD. I call it free surcharge....especially in the summer.

If it was me, I would have as many arrows in my quiver as I could get. The more specialized you get, the more the agents will be calling you. Low trailers, long trailers, levelers, tarps, TWIC, oversize ready, cross border ready, cross dock capability, storage......wait a minute....that is me. :)

What put you off about the OD thing? Heck, it ain't that bad. I had expected you'd be telling us you were under that overweight load already. Are you having a van day again?

I've never been able to make the LTL thing work consistently. Keep in mind mind as a Canadian he has to cross a border so 90% of available freight is gone right off the bat. And what is available never seems to pay enough to cover the DH miles it takes to PU and DEL it. Not to mention the guy who's paying the TL rate wants his stuff ASAP and he won't be too keen on and extra layover to PU and an extra layover to deliver someone else's skids.

Remember the meek shall inherit the earth but only when the aggressive are finished with it.