US Express Lease Purchase
 

I know most drivers, and truck owners are against lease purchase from certain companies, and I hope this is the right place to ask this question. But has anyone heard anything good, bad or ugly about US Express and their lease purchase program?

US Express Lease Purchase Program (I think this site is just and advertisement)

Details on the site are weak, especially any sort of buyout. Almost makes me think there isn't one. I've never understood the logic behind escrows, and they have two of them equaling 7 CPM (5 CPM maintenance and 2 CPM tires). Do you get that money back with interest at the end of the lease?

Weekly costs:

* Fixed Cost Century
* Tractor Payment $ 444.23
* Physical Damage Insurance $55.38*
* Bobtail Insurance $15.00
* Occup. Accident Insurance $32.77**
* Satcom Rental $15.00
* Highway Use Tax $10.58
* Weekly Fixed Cost $572.96

I'm assuming the asterisks mean you can purchase these elsewhere. So we have a monthly cost of $2,291.84.

Assume you can get 10,000 miles per month and that's 23 CPM. Add in the two escrows and you're at 30 CPM. Fuel right now at 6 mpg will cost you about 45 CPM, now we're at 68 CPM.

Looking at truck paper there's tons of century's in the 25-40k range in that model year. The total lease payments equals $23,100.00 plus buyout(whatever that is...)

Owner Operators - U.S. Xpress, Truck Driving Jobs, Class A CDL Jobs, Hiring Drivers, Truck Driving Opportunities, Contracotrs, Lease/Purchase

Seems to be the correct website, with a better explanation of compensation. They use a sliding scale system like CR england, and the pay is not very good.

Lease/Purchase - U.S. Xpress, Truck Driving Jobs, Class A CDL Jobs, Hiring Drivers, Truck Driving Opportunities

"Average 91 CPM plus FSC"

What is the FSC? Average price right now is 2.65. Using the industry standard:

(2.65 - 1.25) / 6 = 23 CPM

91 CPM + 23 CPM = 114 CPM

$1.14 CPM X 10,000 miles = $11,400

$11,400 - cost (10,000 miles X 68 CPM) = $4,600 or 46 CPM, which is about what a good company would pay including drop pay.

What if you have a 6,000 mile month?

Your fixed costs shoot up to 38 CPM + 7 CPM escrew, add in fuel and you're at 83 CPM cost. That leaves you with 24 CPM, doesn't sound so good now does it?

I don't see any mention of drop pay, multiple drop pay, border crossings, do you pay tolls or do they, on and on.

If that doesn't convince you to stay away, here are the steps you should take:

1) Get a copy of both the lease agreement and o/o agreement. Have a lawyer look over both. If you don't understand the difference, we can explain that to you. If they won't give you copies, don't bother. Keep looking.

2) Do a monthly cost analysis. Use 6,000 miles, 8,000 miles, and 10,000 miles. How much did you make at the end of the month? If it is equal to or less then what a good company would pay you, what's the point of the extra risk? If it is more, how much more, and is that worth the extra risk?

3) Do a cost analysis on the truck. Do you get the truck at the end of the lease? Is the truck in good shape? Are they trying to lease it to you way above market value? Would you be better off just buying the truck on your own?

I can't speak from personal exp, but I have a friend that was in it and him and his team mate have yet to make a profit in 4 mos

http://www.zetbit.com/sig-1014764.jpg

Yeah the company says that they no longer have any Century's around for the lease program, but are using the volvo's and Pete's, '08, '09, 010.

I now drive a ,02 Century an old Interstate truck with auto shift, and ISX cummins rated @
435. The truck can do 70, but I run primarily around 63, and on my worst days for fuel milage I get 7-8, and my best has been 10.5, light load, not much in the way of hills. The owner of this truck has a 386 Pete, with a Cat and 13 speed, which he is selling, because the best that truck will do is 5-5.5.

If I am accepted into the program I would go to Tunnel Hill for orientation, and maybe get my truck there. I guess a lot of drivers are getting into this program, but I want to look at everything before I jump with both feet, my present company has changed their payroll and it now takes 7-9 days to process one round. We are out only 7-10 days, primarily running to the Carolinas.

I will tell you this much, he did prety good as an independant contractor but he had a good wife manage his money at home. He has no patience for that stuff. right after they seperated, he went team with another lady and it all went down hill from there. Might be his fault but I would think since he runs his butt off he should be able to make a profit somehow. He said they aren't running him enough and he even had to turn his truck back in.

Well the guy that I work for started out with only 2 trks, he now has 27, he says you have to know your costs, budget hard, and not try to out run your expenses, you never will. He told me if I ever do buy my own truck, I have to run it as a business, not like I did as a company driver, I have to know my risks, be good at planning, and try to keep the truck in good shape.

Buy a truck that will make money for you, spend less than you take in, over time if the truck is giving you problems, upgrade.

I know lease purchase is very risky, but some folks are making it work, but a lot have failed.

Bet you can't get 5 to post positive experiences at a fleece purchase with one of these mega carriers. Let me ask you this. If it's so great why isn't there hundreds if not thousands of guys on here or any where else singing the praises of L/P deals? Surely enough have tried.

Never be indebted to a company for anything more than a job.

I would ask for 5-10 phone numbers of current L/P operators and get first hand experiences from them.

Lease purchase or not, you'll make more as a company driver if they're going to pay you $.91/mile.

I spoke with an owner operator a year or so ago who told me that he paid out his truck at U.S. Xpress. Those who seem to be failing the most right now are those with big truck payments. $2,000+ is a big payment to make each month. If you take any time off your payments will continue. I don't understand why you would want to put your future in such jeopardy. There are good trucks on the market for much less than $20,000 that are in good shape. A guy told me today that he knows of two that the owners want to sell for less then $5,000. According to him both of these trucks are in good shape. I believe one needs 4 drive tires. You don't need a big truck payment to be a successful owner operator. You don't need a new or nearly new truck to be a successful owner operator. You need to buy something you can pay for and that is in good shape. There are many trucks on the market that you can get into for way less than you will pay for the USX truck. You will pay too big of a payment and rates are not sufficiently high enough for you to make decent money.

I have owned a number of trucks. I have yet to lease a truck. There is a good reason that I have never leased a truck from a carrier. I have looked into quite a few of their programs. You will pay much more for one of these trucks than you can go out and buy one outright. If your credit isn't good enough to buy a truck on your own then you don't need to buy one until you can either get your credit in good shape or save enough to pay cash. This is a business. A good businessman doesn't pay more for a piece of equipment than he must. There are thousands of experienced owner operators who are having difficulty making it in this down economy. I may have mentioned it on another thread but I have had 2 former owner operators who lost their trucks after making payments for 4 years. Both had nice 379 Peterbilts. They only had 1 year left before their trucks were paid off. When the economy tanked they could not make the payments. I really felt for both of them. They bought their trucks when the economy was doing well. In all likelyhood, neither managed their money well when things went well. Or other factors could have come into play, such a a family illness. In any case, they both wound up with trucks that they could no longer afford. If you want to become an owner operator you need to keep your payments as low as possible. You should be able to get a payment around $500 with today's economy. You can pay for a $500/month truck. If you do decide to lease one of those USX trucks I hope you will come on and give us an update as you progress.

One thing is for sure though, lease purchase does work with the right company, and a driver that has a good business sense. Yes I agree more folks have failed at lease purchase than those who have made it work, now is US Express lease purchase any good, don't know, are they trying to make money off the driver, of course, that is why I am doing the research.

Lease purchase programs are not all created equal.

Thanks Gman for the info.

You are welcome, Fuzeme.

really? which ones? just because someone completes the L/P doesn't make it successful.



by a surprisingly wide margin I bet




I don't know for sure either, but I know for sure I am not willing to bet my financial future on it, save some money and buy your own truck and be a true O/O, not some money maker for a stupid mega carrier.

the other thing that u have to consider is knowing how to keep the truck running without putting all the profits into repairs. a little knowledge in mechanics goes a long way........

Everyone thinks they are the exception to the rule. Sadly, they aren't. It's the probability fallacy. Our brain wants to convince us that we are a unique and beautiful snowflake, and even though everyone else failed, somehow we're different and will see a better result. But we're not unique, and the odds of succeeding are just as crappy for us as they were for the last guy who failed.

People use this same logic when buying a lottery ticket. Fast fact: The odds of winning a Mega Millions Jackpot are 175,000,000 to one. The odds, as an American Male, of being Tom Cruise are only 150,000,000 to one.

No, they pretty much are.

I believe most that would do a L/P would also fail if they purchased a truck outright. Little or no credit,no cash,no idea.

A US Express fellow helpled me blindside a while back and then we got to talking about

trucking and what not...he was not doing to well leasing with those guys

Always having to cook his books... he gave the impression they play dirty pool

But then I have yet to come across a dispatch system that didnt ...

So it takes 2 to tango as they say

good luck

I just got a complete 'P/M' on the truck I am driving...

That Includes Tractor Serv and Trailer Maint and top quailty filters and oil for 280.oo

Do it every 20,000 miles :)

Here's another question to ask before doing a lease program. Why drive this truck, when you can drive a similarly equipped company truck?
Another way to approach this is to save up X dollars each week, and don't touch that until you get enough (and then some) for a decent truck. Use some to buy the truck, and use some as spare cash for repairs, PM service, tires, etc. Even if you lease, rather than purchase, always keep some savings in reserve in case the crap hits the fan (which it will).

The owner I work for is going to replace my current trk, which is a 02 Century, and old Interstate Dist. trk, with a 05 T-600, it will have a Cat backed up with a 13 speed. Now he leases/ sells trks to his drivers for a good price, they can drive the trk for a while to obtain the data they need to decide if they want to buy/ lease the trk.
So I think for me that will be a better way to go, I can test drive the trk for several months as company driver, if it turns out to be a money maker, I'll get into his lease program. That way I'm not changing companies, or leasing a trk I don't know, or have any data on.

If I do decide to lease from him, he will set up my accounting, insurance, escrow accounts, I will be a clone of how he runs his operation. He started out with 2 trks, now he has 27 and growing.

If he's like pretty much every other l/p company out there, once you start renting a job from him, he may be able to add 1 or 2 more to his fleet.:lol:

Best of luck.

Does this at all make you wonder why he would do such a deal? He already has the truck and the driver, why would he turn around and lease the truck to the driver? He doesn't gain a truck, he doesn't gain a driver. In fact, he turns a driver that he had a decent amount of control over into a contractor whom he has much less control over. The only reason it makes sense is because he retains the same truck and driver but it costs him a heck of a lot less. So how does one account for the difference in cost?

We're leased on to a really good company, he doesn't provide the loads, they do, so if I lease a truck I get my dispatch from this company, like I am now, and I get paid directly by this company. I then pay him the agreed upon amount for the trk. I watched another driver go through the program, and he is now 10 wks away from owning his truck. He started out with a year lease.

This owner is like any other dealer, and or leasing company, they provide the trk, your carrier provides the loads. Are truck dealers, leasing companies, and trk owners making money on used trks, of course, and the thing with this owner, he owns his own diesel shop, the trucking business is just a side thing he does with his shop.

All our loads come from the carrier he is leased on to, not from him.

So why doesn't he just open a dealership, since you're pretty much saying he is like one of those "BUY HERE, PAY HERE" places. He must be making a killing on this. He lets you take all the risk, and simply provides you the rope to hang yourself, making a tidy profit in the process. He doesn't even need to do the work of finding you loads!

Wow....

Well it really wouldn't be any different if I went to Freightliner or a KW dealer, what risk are they assuming if I buy a used truck from them? Can I get my tires, parts, and repairs at a discount through them? I think not.

They assume that if I am buying a truck from them, that I know the risks involved with owning a truck, the same with this situation, he will not put a driver in this program who is not willing to use good business practices. He told us " this is a business, and you have to run it like a business, and this business can put you under real quick if you are not careful."

No dealer, lease company, or truck owner is going to allow you to test drive a truck for several months to see if you want to buy it. And if I decide to stay in the truck at that point as a company driver, what have I lost? What has he lost? he still has me, and his truck.

None, and the price you pay usually reflects it.

Nope, and you can't get them at a discount through this guy either. You can, however, get them at a discount through the company you lease to.

If you're going into business in a "trial run", you likely haven't done your homework first.

Well we can get all that through him, even the fuel discounts he gets, if we continue to use his fuel card.

Tires, repairs, and parts can all be bought through him, because he owns a truck repair shop, but we can use any place we want, just a better deal going through him.

As far as the trial run with the truck, I would still be a company driver, in a company truck, if I decide to get into his program, at that point I would become a lease operator, in a lease truck, with our current carrier.

IF I go with US Express, I would be in a rental truck for 90 days, then they would put me in a '09 or '10 Pete, with weekly payment of 620- 667. They are all out of the Century's, a lot of folks are doing their lease program.

Why are you comparing the two? Why go into business for yourself at all? What do you have to realistically gain by going into business for yourself? What do you have to lose? Given the current market, going into business for yourself right now is an even bigger risk than it was a year ago.

But like I said earlier, the probability fallacy will rule, and you'll think you're the exception to the rule. Debating this is completely futile, as you've already made up your mind. Best of luck.

$667 a week is $2668.00 a month. WOW.

Yeah, that's more than I pay for my 379 Peterbilt that I bought new. WAY more. Nothing like setting yourself up for failure right from the start. But hey - the OP knows more than the rest of us. After all, the guy who is gonna rent him a job started out with 2 trucks, and now has 27. And he's growing. And judging by the stars in the OP's eyes, now I know why.

If he has 27 people renting his trucks at the rate mentioned, he is making a very good living by simply renting trucks. Perhaps I need to start renting trucks. I would probably make more renting them than running them.:thumbsup:

If what Fuzeme says is true for a US Xpress lease payment of $620 a week, it sure sounds like a great way to pay a driver half of minimum wage at best. I believe P.T. Barnum is a bit behind the times now when he said "There's a sucker born every minute."

"He will not put a driver in this program who is not willing to use good business practices. He told us this is a business, and you have to run it like a business." You'll have to give me a moment as I'm still laughing. Ah, much better. Why not, CR England has been doing it for years and is still around with drivers lacking common sense, let alone business sense?

I respect GMAN for his knowledge, and hope the advice he offers is listened to in your case. The description given of the planned lease would make me run the other way.

You guys are getting two different situations mixed up, ok, US Express is leasing new to near new Pete's for around 620-667. You have to go through a 90 day period using a rental truck. If you stick it out for a year, you get a bonus, but no truck, if you want to continue leasing the truck, you can.

I am not in US Express leasing program, nor am I going to be in their program, I am not in any lease program. The truck I drive is owned by an owner who is leased on to a small carrier, that is growing, we got several new accounts last week, reefer loads. This carrier is 100% owner operator, no company drivers. Because the carrier is growing and profitable, and the miles are really good, and have been even in this recession, and with other companies closing their doors, this enables the owner of my truck to grow hence the reason he is adding more trucks.

I do want to say one thing, the info I have received from the many contributors on this board has caused me to walk away from the US Express program, after all who wouldn't want to drive around a new shiny Iron Horse. But if you are taken to the cleaners in the process, what's the point? I am seriously thinking about the program offered by my company, I talked with the owner of the carrier we are leased to and he thinks it is a good program for new owner Ops. Trucks aren't new, most have about 400,000 miles on them, just starting to get broke in.

"I talked with the owner of the carrier we are leased to and he thinks it is a good program for new owner Ops." I can't argue with that as I'm 100% positive he thinks it is a good idea.

Do you have a rough idea what your expenses will be (by that I mean cpm), and what you'll be paid under this lease?

Posters are making these assumptions because the only information you've given regarding truck payments is from the US Xpress program. Because those are the specifics you've asked about, everybody assumes that this other deal is similar in structure. If it wasn't, why bother asking about USX. Now, if you want to give information about what your truck payments and rates would be with your current carrier, I'll bet people would stop referencing the USX numbers.

You know........... and I hope this isn't taken the wrong way, but the short amount of time I've been in this business, sometimes I think you can make more money off of truck drivers than driving a truck.

Only the ignorant ones:)

Yeah, that's what I meant, perhaps I didn't phrase it quite right.

At one time I gave serious consideration to buying trucks and leasing them to drivers. If I did I would want to try to come up with a program that would be fair to the driver and myself. I pretty much came to the conclusion that if you make it fair for the driver that you will lose money. If you set it up like these big carriers do you could make a lot of money off of these drivers who want to rent a truck. I do think that many of them make more off the leases than the freight they haul.