Fuel prices - international version
 

To all the whiners that don't know how to run a business properly, don't know how to negotiate, don't know how to keep costs under control, don't know their own TRUE cost:

Belgium - 7.25
France - 7.63
Germany - 8
Italy - 8.04
Netherlands - 7.74
UK - 8.58
US - 3.97

http://www.eia.doe.gov/emeu/international/diesel1.html

Times are changing. Change with them or die. That's how capitalism works. If you cannot survive, the government is NOT here to bail you out.

Re: Fuel prices - international version
 

Belgium - 7.25
France - 7.63
Germany - 8
Italy - 8.04
Netherlands - 7.74
UK - 8.58
US - 3.97

http://www.eia.doe.gov/emeu/international/diesel1.html

Times are changing. Change with them or die. That's how capitalism works. If you cannot survive, the government is NOT here to bail you out.[/quote]

I have to agree on this one. Me and a friend was just talking about Gas in other countries today and I don't think the prices are NOT going to go down we just have to find ways to deal with the rising cost Period...

Re: Fuel prices - international version
 

AMEN!

And what Country do you live in. Please!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Why would you want to roll over and take it. Your answer: "Everybody else is doing it." Wake up America!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Roll over and take it?

The only thing that involves me and rolling, is the rolling I'm doing with the EXTRA MONEY I'M MAKING?

Why you ask? It's simple, I get a fuel surcharge. My fuel surcharge is based on 6 mpg. I get more then that. As a matter of fact, I make 1 CPM more every time fuel goes up about 25-30 cents. At around $5 a gallon, the FSC will completely pay for my fuel.

It's called good business.

So your a leased operator...............that explains it.
Get back to hauling that cheap freight.

"cheap freight" LOL

What's your net? After expenses?

Mine is around 85-90 CPM *ALL MILES*.

Is yours more or less?

If it's less, then you make less then someone hauling "cheap freight"(again LOL)

If it's so cheap, why do I get a good fuel surcharge for ALL miles? Something that other operators want the government to step in for? Who hauls the cheap freight? I think it's the guys that are going on strike.

How come no mexico or south america countrys isnt mexico like 1.50 and brazil or argentina like 20-30 cents?

Cause, you want to compare "apples to apples"! :wink:
Care to post your rates, so we could compare? :P

I was refering to this international priceing list it makes the US. look like we have cheap diesel !

http://www.eia.doe.gov/emeu/international/diesel1.html

I was wondering why they didnt list mexico and south american countrys?

I got it, that why i said about "apples". You didn't want to compare American wages and Mexican....did you? :)

Ah senoir i comprendey now!

IMO, comparing Europe to North America os not apples tp apples. Average length of haul has got to be waaaaaay, lower than here.

I meant cost and quality of living...not trucking.

Oh, OK.

But, measured as a percentage of income, I bet Europeans spend less money on fuel than we do...even with the higher prices.

Winter produce is picked in Leamington, ON and 9 hours later they are on shelves in Montreal, 500 miles away. This happens every day. I wonder if the Euros have to go so far for a tomato.

The reason some countries have cheaper diesel is because they can produce all of their own supply, and they also have state oil companies.

Look at it this way, the major oil companies profits are 8% of their income.

At 4.00 a gallon, take 8% off, that's their cost!

I was gonna laugh at you...but you are being serious..so I won't.

Just wondering...why did you post the price of fuel in Europe...but fail to post the taxes that are the largest portion of the cost of fuel in Europe??

Oil cost's the same, whether it is delivered in Europe or America. Refining cost's are close to the same, with the largest difference being taxes.

Taxes on a gallon of fuel in America run UNDER $1.00 per gallon. Based on the US dollar, taxes in most European countries are running at $4.35 per gallon and up.


As for the percentage of profit an oil company receives on a gallon of fuel...that is a well diluted mystery......for a reason.

The absurdly low price paid by consumers in places like Venezuela is due to government subsidies.

Gents... I feel I need to wade in here...

Up here, in Western Canada, we are paying an average of $1/litre of fuel, which is pretty close to $4/gallon. I live in Alberta, we produce more oil than Saudi Arabia, matter of fact we EXPORT a great deal of our oil to YOU!

What I can't figure out... you guys down there are paying roughly what we pay for fuel, but why are your rate so much lower?? I work for an LTL carrier that runs the North... As most of you know I run in the Arctic, & fuel is extremely high there. Now I have seen many of you bash lease operators, personally I don't really know what the difference is, we all own our trucks right? Well, except for theose poor guys on the company "never never" plans. Up here there are very few what I would term as independents. Why? Well, for one it is very hard to get an operating authority, & insurance rates are prohibitave if you have just one or two trucks... for instance, if I tried to get my own authority I would have a mirade of hoops to jump through(I have checked) & my insurance would nearly double.

The company I am leased onto treats me well, my fuel is capped at 1/3 of the posted price (FSC in a round about way) my insurance is based on the miles I run (and I run alot of them) about $800/month, the company pays for my plates & WCB, I have benefits & senority, and I get a safety bonus at the end of each year. I'm not sure I want to post my mileage rates, because I am not sure anyone will believe me, but, I suppose in the interest of full disclosure I will... My rates start at 1.30/mile for 5 axles, which I do about 5% of the time, and that is the rate I get if I have to bobtail somewhere, & it goes up to $1.70/mile for Rocky Mountain Doubles which I pull 95% of the time. I get the same rate whether I am loaded or empty. And being our HOS rules are slightly different I average about 16,000 miles/month. I have no complaints, we are busy...always.

So again I ask, what is wrong with being a lease operator? I have all the same responsibilities as the independents, but just a bit less of the headaches.

These stats are from 2004 for those that want to compare apples to apples.

Population:
UK 59,866,864
US 293,655,392

Land Area
UK 241,930 kilometers
US 9,158,960 kilometers

Average Miles Driven per capita
UK 7000
US 10,000

Car Ownership per 1000
UK 463
US 833

Average Miles per gallon (new car)
UK 37.83
US 24.6

The US has more vehicles per capita, more miles to travel to feed its masses, and has less fuel efficient vehicles. At 346 million gallons per day the US uses more fuel per day than the following countries combined:
Total fuel consumption per country (million gal/day)
Japan 41.8
China 35
Canada 27.6
Russia 24.1
Germany 24.1
Mexico 23.6
UK 18.7
Italy 14.5
Iran 14.1
Australia 13
France 11.3
Brazil 11.1
Saudi Arabia 10.7
Indonesia 1.1
Venezuela 9.5
India 7.4
Spain 7.4
Taiwan 7
S Africa 7
S Korea 6.7

wildkat, I would speculate that your rates are higher up there because you've got a higher demand for trucks and fewer of them. That economy, from what I hear, is going great guns and they need all the trucks they can get. We're slowing down here and we had too many trucks to begin with. For many down here, the rates they're getting don't have anything to do with their costs.

You may be right about that...we have a severe driver shortage here, especially in Alberta, where, as you say, our economy is hotter than you know where! Personally I could do with just a bit "less" busy some days, but mostly I don't complain... I remember a time when unemployment was at 25% & interest rates were about the same...I would NEVER want those days again... I HAD a job back then too...but it was tough!

Ride it a few more years and retire, right? :wink:

YUppes NW...am gettin older now...and am wanting to slow up some in the next couple of years

Matter of fact our Director of Operations asked me the other day what my future plans were...

I looked him square & said...well I have 32 months left to pay on my truck, then I'm gonna run her for 5 more years... then that purty purple Pete is gonna become the nicest lawn ornament you ever saw, cause I'm gonna park her in a promenant spot in my yard & plant flowers around her! :D :D :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

are you kidding. bailing out the forclosures, bailed out bears & sterns. the govenment is always looking for someone to bail out.

C'mon now wildkat, you're Canadian. I expect you to stretch that puppy out, turn it into an RV, and join the rest of your countrymen down in AZ during the winter :lol:

That's what I was going to say. Don't forget some of the airlines after 9/11. BILLIONS in aid.

15 BILLION

Hello, I'm a French trucker.

If you want to compare prices, I give you some informations.

Diesel in France = 1,30 €/ liter = 4,92 €/ gallon = 7,74 $/ gallon.

Tractor full option with a 480 hp ( cabover ) we have not conventional tractor = 90000 € = 142000 $.

Trailer dry van ( 48' ) = 30000 € = 47200 $.

Insurance for tractor, trailer, driver and goods ( annualy ) = 5000 € = 7800 $.

Tractor and trailer tires = 5700 € = 8900 $.

Maintenance and repair ( annualy ) = 7000 € = 11000 $.

Driver income net = 27000 € = 42500 $.

Income taxes, health insurance, and other = 13000 € = 20500 $.

Phone, GPS, = 2400 € = 3800 $.

Meal, shower = 9900 € = 15600 $.

The prices may change if you drive for a small or for a big company.

80% of the fuel cost in Europe is TAXES, that is why European Union is riding on a high inflation as we speak and thats why their Euro is so strong, but not for long.

Truckers DONT PAY that amount you mentioned Allan, most of those contries have capped diesel costs for commercial use, kind of like Mexico has.

When i was there in December of 07, Italy just had a strike where the whole contry was paralized for a week because of rising diesel and France had one as well 3 years ago I`believe which included farmers too.


Point is not about your fuel surcharge Allan, mine is great too but the whole costs goes much deeper than that.
If the fuel surcharge you're getting is great, you're still LOOSING money thru INFLATION that skyrocketed while a BASIC pay of people has not followed.

Actros, thanks for posting that information. It's always interesting to compare numbers from other places. I have a few questions.

The price for a dry van is much higher than ours ($25,000). I've heard you use mostly soft-sided trailers over there, is that true? If so, the cost you give would be about the same here.

Is that net income figure before taxes and health insurance or do those costs come out of the $42,500?

How many kms do you drive in a year?

What do you get for fuel mileage in your truck?

Thanks.

http://imageshack-france.com/out.php/i64027_24200.jpg

That is a Fruehauf curtainside trailer 48', the price is 24200 € = 38000 $.

http://imageshack-france.com/out.php/i64074_32800.jpg

That is a Cargo-Schmitz dry van trailer 48', the price is 32800 € = 51600 $.

Net income 42500$, but you must deducted by month approximatively 22 % of your earning to paid social security ( doctor, medics, hospital ) retirement plan, unemployment plan and many taxes.

13000 €, that is the amount paid by your boss or company for social security, retirement plan, unemployment plan and many taxes.

In France a long haul driver can drive 100000 miles, that is less like you but a driver can't drive more 9h00 by day, and the speed limit is 55 mph on highway. The frenchs drivers can't drive the week-end, we must stop the saturday at 10 pm and wait monday morning midnight to start.

Sorry, but I don't understand the last question ! It's not easy to write and understand american language, I learned many years ago and I forgot, but this is a very good exercise for me.

If you have other questions, ask me.I will be very glad to answer you.

For information, 1 € = 1,57 $

I'm glad you brought this up. I was reading an article on some sight (Bloomberg maybe, I can't remember)that mentioned that China subsidizes it's citizen fuel as well.

Now, here is what I can't figure out, maybe someone here can. What is the effect that subsidizing will have for the overall market? Fuel has to be paid for somehow. Will it start to eventually weaken the governments?

I was watching Warren Buffet on CNBC a while back and he said something that stuck with me. He said whenever you're talking about economics you have to ask yourself "and then what?"

Now to put that to work, I'm trying to figure out that if these governments are subsidizing fuel then the citizens will use more cause the price is being manipulated. So then what??

Actros, thanks for answering. That dry van trailer doesn't look much different than ours, except for the third axle. I don't know what a tri-axle van costs here, but I'm sure it's not anywhere near that much.

What I was asking in the last question was, how many kilometers can your truck go per liter of diesel? Wait, I just learned that in Europe you use liters per 100 kilometers. Does that make it clearer? My truck gets about 6.4 miles per gallon or 36.75 liters per 100k.

Don't worry about your English, it's much better than my French :lol:

Rosty, the short answer is that subsidizing or price caps (essentially the same thing) ultimately result in shortages. To prevent that from occurring, subsidization is usually accompanied by rationing. I believe that China does ration their fuel. I don't think Venezuela does, but they're in the unique situation of being a producer. That, combined with the fact that it's a poor country so domestic demand is minimal, allows them to avoid shortages. China is the only net importer I'm aware of that subsidizes. Of course they bring in so much from exports in other areas, that it doesn't hurt their balance sheet.

My truck gets about 6.72 miles per gallon or 35 liters per 100k with a 480 hp, at maximum legal weight 88200lb. That is the average of fuel comsumption for a truck in Europ.

Can you tell me how many hours a day you can drive ? How many day by week, and if you layover often.

I am on holiday, in France, all the workers have 5 weeks, but for the truckers, if you drove a lot, you can get 2 weeks more per year.

I read you haven't so many holidays.

Don't know about No worries, but i do! :lol:
What kind of a freight rates, you've got over there? The good, the bad, and the ugly...I'm talking a dry van rates.
We can drive 11 hours a day, and 14 hours work total. After that you suppose to take 10 hours brake. No more than 70 hours total work (driving/non driving) in 8 days. But if you've been of duty for 34 hours straight, you may restart it from 0!

Solo's right. Also, there are no restrictions on how many days per week you can drive. The only thing that matters is how many hours you've worked that week. You could drive 7 days a week if you drive 8.5 hours each day, as a general rule.

Most of the long-haul drivers here stay out for extended periods of time, 2 weeks or longer. Many of the big companies give 1-2 days off for each 7 days on the road. So, a driver might drive for 4 weeks then take 4-8 days off. Some drivers are regional, meaning they drive in a smaller area. They usually are home on the weekends and might get home a few times during the week. Some drivers are local, meaning they are home every night.

If you own your own truck here, there are no official holidays. You work when you want (or when you can find work) and take holiday when you want. If you drive for a company (don't own your own truck) there are 5-10 holidays plus vacation. Usually you get 1-4 weeks of vacation depending on how long you've worked at the company. Some companies give more, some less. There is no official rule.

I'm not sure if layover means the same thing. Here, it usually means you have to sit a day waiting for a load. Some drivers never wait, some wait all the time. It just depends on the company you work for.

Hello solo379,

there is many freight rates like many customers. Some rates are about by palets, other by square feet, by weight and for a full load by kilometer.
But we must never forget how many cost per miles a truck drive. In France, cost per miles for a tractor and a dry van trailer ( 48' ) is 1.50 € per kilometer = 2.41 € per miles or 3.83 $ per miles. The best rate is 2.00 €/kms = 5.10 $/miles but you didn't find more customers at this price.

Hello no_worries,

For me layover is when you're obliged to sleep in your truck.

Is that including driver wages, or just a tractor/trailer cost?

All is included, tractor and trailer payment, credit bank, drivers wages, fuel, tires, maintenances and repairs, insurances, taxes, toll highway, meals and showers, phone bills.