See, now you've got me thinking. I didn't examine your numbers too closely. You made $1.40/mile hub at Landstar and what, you like this better!?!? I'm usually doing good to get a load paying $1.40 practical, let alone average that and let's not even talk about deadhead or experiences like I had not too long ago when 40 miles was added to the trip because I was sent to the wrong address...ok, and yeah, yeah, there has been that rare occasion when I just went the wrong way. 8) I'm serious, I just want to get to the place where I can consistently have a good profit margin and not have to spend two months out or constantly be plotting to set up my loads. As I said elsewhere, I just heard of a couple of BCO's who went into Salt Lake City and both deadheaded roughly a thousand miles out of there. Man, when I was headed to Cali, all I was getting calls for were SLC loads, I'm kind of tired of trying to dodge bullets. I'll read your blog a little. Thanks, Mike. Last question, you aren't getting a lot of moles or growing a third tit or anything like that, are you? :lol: Oh yeah, one last, last question. You are heavy most of the time, right? I understand the money is there to make it worthwhile, but it's still good to get the full picture.

Cam, you will usually do better with Landstar if you run East of I-35, West of I-95, North of I-10 and South of I-80. Your deadhead will likely be less, rates will be higher and fuel will cost less. Freight in those areas is much more plentiful than on the left coast.

I just started pulling chemical tanker in February 2007 but so far I have been happy with the money and the change in customer base. Yes you are almost always 75,000 to 80,000 pounds. And learning to deal with the surge, increased stopping distance, and increased rollover risk is no joke. I have been told that some people quit after just two or three days because they can't deal with the problems of liquid loads. At the terminal where I work, the manager had me go out in a company truck and pull several local loads to see what it was like before he would finish processing my lease just to make sure I wasn't going to quit right away.

You also have to climb on top and check every load to be sure that everything is tight and secure on top. You also have to deal with hoses, pumps and air compressors. But I think it is worth it.

From what I have learned so far, your happiness in Chemical Tanks really depends on your local terminal. With chemical tanker, typically, after each load the tanker will be taken to a terminal or tank wash for cleaning. These are clustered around the sources of chemical freight. There is strong competition and different carriers are strong in different parts of the country and even in different cities.

I am leased to Superior Carriers, they have a lot of terminals in the sounth, and seem to be doing especially well in North and South Carolina. They have no terminal at all in the Toledo, Detroit, Cleveland market. I am not doing as well as mike3fan. I am averaging more like 2,200 miles per week and my average per mile is a bit lower. I track my earning based on total hub miles, not HHG or practical miles.

Anyway, my point is that if one of the tank company has a strong terminal near your home, it could be a really good thing, but it is not for everyone.

Oh yeah I forgot about this little detail,next time you pass a tanker take a look at those cat walks that run from the dome lid to the front and the back.You will in all kinds of weather have to walk out there and make sure that the wash caps are tight and have gaskets in them,this is one of the most dangerous parts of our job,I walked out this winter in 25mph gust and freezing rain.....not fun,but as my trainer said crawl out there if you have to but it is important to check these things.

That was a good, well-written post, Paul. Good to know about the weight and the surges. I see you've got a blog going too. I've got 3 days to do 1200 miles so I'm going to do a little reading this weekend. Physical work, a little dirt, no big deal. Throwing those hose around, no doubt you are getting some kind of toxic something on yourself, probably use a breather apparatus. All doable, it just has to be factored in.

Is this a slam against me?........j/k :D

I have been doing tankers for 20 years, it IS the best money you will earn with truck.

I ran my own authority for the last 6 months of 2006 and went back to tankers, what does that tell you?

PS my flatbed is sitting in my yard and I'm still paying on it.

I have friends who have been doing this longer than I have, NO medical problems to speak of other than getting old and cranky.

I have only saw one guy fall off a tank in 20 years, accident, pure and simple.

With the exception of the munition haulers and oversize/weight haulers, there is NO ONE at Landstar is making the kind of money that the tanker haulers make.

The tanker rates start out at OVER $2 a mile gross to the truck and only go UP from there, some as high as $5 per mile.

$2 gross is $1.20 to the truck (60%) PLUS the FSC, which was 18% last week, do the math.

But, hey don't take our word for it, remember the less people that believe me/us........the MORE work we get to keep :lol: :lol:

What can say, that's all music :)

Read your blog Mike3fan,

Don't know if I should post here or there. I'll just toss out a couple things. About the OSU dorms, spoken like a true Wolverine :lol: What do you do with your rubber suit when you aren't wearing it? It seems you'd have to on your toes to keep the icky stuff off your regular clothes and outside the cab of your truck. Lots of waiting, any of that pay detention? Am I to understand you make all your money on the linehaul and nothing for deadhead even when your deadhead exceeds your loaded miles? I'll stop right there until I know where to continue. I actually took notes. :wink:

That was the other thing I was thinking, you once stayed in the OSU dorms. I know you are a Michigander but heaven forbid I should confuse a Buckeye at heart with one of those guys. (I'm a Spartan)

I looovvveee paid detention. Imagine, getting to a destination and saying, 'take your time, boys'. 8) I almost never see detention.

All said and done, when you count your revenue against your hub, that's what counts and it really doesn't matter how much was deadhead- as long as the rate per mile is still good. Two observations, your rate per mile loaded must be very good. Have you figured out an average? Secondly, it makes me wonder how much incentive the company has to plan your loads efficiently so that your deadhead is as small as possible. I think it would be difficult to deadhead a lot if it isn't costing them anything.

I was wondering about the washout. Since the product varies so much, that tank has got to be really clean. I guess they have the equipment for that. Getting some place to washout, waiting in line and waiting for it to be done...gets to be time consuming?

Well, a this point I'm not too concerned about the health issues base on what I'm hearing. It just has to be asked.

Last thing, your reaction to that mechanics' bill was pretty impressive. Even under financial pressures it sounds like you didn't blow up. So why did it cost so much? Did he do something wrong? Do you still use him?

Cam...Dana Wash, the tank wash portion of Dana/Suttles, does an excellent job of getting a "live wash" done and out. I have done several(driving for a chemical company), at the facility in Laporte Tx, and was in and out in less tahn 2 hours. Most times, you can drop the trailer in the wash bay, go get a shower and a meal, return and pickup & inspect the trailer, then leave in 2 hours. Same is true in Mobile AL. Dana also seems to have dedicated bays for their own equipment.

Only people of the highest fortitude and character can be Spartan football fans. :lol: Now hoops...look-ing go-od.

That's 2.08 to the truck loaded, that can buy some tolerance on the deadhead! Some... :D

Now, I read your posts and looked at your pictures (great photos), what I read and saw was a lot of snowy driving hell. That's not a tanker thing, that's just driving up north. Feel me now, I really am serious about taking the first three months of the year off. If I had to, I'd just run harder in the beautiful sunshine and dry roads the other nine months to make up for it. I don't suppose that would allowed in tankers?

The other thing is I'm thinking about just making Florida my home. We've got a trailer on a lot down there, I have simple tastes, suits me just fine. Born down there, too. May just renew my license there in June and say :asta: to state income taxes. If I worked out of Florida that might take care of most of the winter driving though I don't know Dana's operational areas.

Which brings up one more thing. I see you get all the way down to TX. Can you request to go different places, you know, get to Houston or someplace and tell them you are going to stay four days at your sister's house or something. If I ran out of Florida could I visit my family in MI say every three months?

Tanker Yanker? Means you are done looking at Landstar? 8) One of our BCOs on another board left to go back to tankers. Everything was amicable, he didn't say why he was going back but I'm putting 2 + 2 together. Thanks for the info. That kind of fills out the picture. You too are a great writer (I'm just trying to mess with Mike3fan's head) :D

you will need to talk to a terminal manager for that info.....

LOL..Cam, I've done a lot of tanking, and a good bit of skateboarding, some reefer, a ton of specialty, type work. I just left a private fleet, that is owned by 2 of the biggest companies in America, did a 6 week stint at ACE Transportation, as an experiment to determine some truth, about my brother.
Yes, I looked at Landstar. I didn't have a problem with the offer, or the way they operate, but I decided I prefer tanker, so I signed a lease 2 weeks ago with a tanker company, Millers Transporters, out of Jackson MS. I signed with them for 1 reason. THEY are paying to outfit my tractor, with the PTO & Liquid pump, Intransit Heat, and Air Assist equipment, with no charge back to me. Their % of the line haul is the same as Dana/Suttles and 5 other tanker companies I looked at, so it was the outfitting that sold me. The truck should be out tomorrow or wednesday.

I'm certain I will see Mike3 around...if he is going into DuPont and Lucite plants in OH & WV.

I got a question about Millers.Do you have to put thier stickers on the door,or can you pit them elsewhere or make your own?
Never seen any of thier trucks anywhere but the door so I was wondering.

It's all good. We're on the cusp of the busy season. I've got debts I want to destroy. The idea of shutting down for a couple of weeks and buying equipment would be a little irritating. Strike while the iron is hot! I got some good rates last summer, if things work out like last summer I should do just fine. Your own experience with the changeover is poignant. Be patient, keep the ear to the ground, check out companies and opportunities, maybe make the jump the first of the year.

Mike....Millers is putting their labels on, and yup, only on the door. However, if I choose to put my name on, they will pay to have it applied on the sleeper, in their colors. The only thing besides your name they allow for in the contract, is an American Flag, which they will also pay to have applied. They seem to want things pretty.

As for my tractor, they have paid to install the PTO and drive shaft, the Intransit heat package, and the new air comp and control lines for air assist, at an outside shop. Tomorrow they do the labels and install the liquid pump. They also paid to swap out the fifth wheel, to raise it 4" so as to get a proper drain on the Tank during live unload. I have 22.5 Low Pro's, so they put on a brand new Holland, with a 4" wedge base, replacing my flat based Fontaine.

week ending 4/29

Owosso,MI------>Kalamazoo,MI(hook load)
Kalamazoo,MI----->Louisville,MS(company unload)
.......Louisville,MS------>W. Memphis,AR(tank wash)
.......W. Memphis,AR----->Greenville,MS(live load)
Greenville,MS------>Farmer City,IL(customer unload)
......Farmer City,IL----->Crestwood,IL(drop dirty,hook clean)
Crestwood,IL---->Owosso,MI(home time)

Total miles: 2256
Deadhead Miles: 782, 35% :cry:
Gross Pay: $2932.97 ($1.30@ mile)
YTD Miles: 42,027
YTD Gross: $64,530.99 ($1.54@ mile)
Total loads: 55
Hazmat: 36

Miller is like being in the Army.

THEY take the hand valve off of YOUR steering wheel so you don't use their brakes.

THEY put THEIR puimp on YOUR truck to avoid paying you a pump charge, when I asked the dufus what about MY fuel he looked at me kinda stupid.

It IS forced dispatch, YOU WILL do what they tell you.

Miller HAD a terminal in Jersey a few years ago, and CUT all the rates, trouble is, they couldn't do any of the work, the O/O's from around here laughed them right out of town.

Miller is a joke, and I'm trying to keeep this thread claen.

Not to be a buttinsky but it does sound pretty strict, and I too am trying not offend.

You know, a lot of guys can say they got a load paying $1.55/mile. Not a lot of guys can get back to the house and say that every mile that truck rolled while I was gone brough in $1.55 in revenue!

that is sorta the point of this thread,thanks for taking notice,also as a O/O leased onto a company

Good grief! :shock: Miller just opened an office in Morrow (Atlanta area) GA at the same tank wash as the Superior (my carrier) terminal. I haven't seen many trucks there yet. Dana is in the same little area and QC is just a mile down the road. Funny how all of the carriers get in one little area.

Anyway, I had wondered what the deal was with Miller, because I met one of their company drivers who disdainfully told me that Miller was the VIP tank company and Superior just picked up what Miller did not want. :roll: Right . . . .

I guess I need to get all this straight. So, OrangeTXguy is our resident Miller expert, is that right? Paul, I was thinking of your company, it does sound a little strict, no? This is cool, at least three major companies represented here. I wonder if after swapping notes long enough all of you will be working at the same company a year from now giving me rookie advice. :lol:

Miller is about 1/2 the size of Superior, 447 power units

Superior has 947, Dana/Suttles/Liquid has 1462, QC has 3400

Find it here www.safersys.org go to company snapshot and type in the name or the DOT #.

I believe QC owns the Morrow Ga tank wash and terminal, Dana owns the one in Winder Ga, and all the other ones that were Mast Brothers, except the one in Tenn, Mast still owns that one.

don't you slacker tanker drivers ever work?

Hey Steve gonna be in NJ Mon.,gonna be around?

I load in Wichita,KS tomm for Fairlawn,NJ

Thats MR. Slacker................please

I'm on vacation this week. 8) ....

I can beat the driver license story though, I did much WORSE than that :shock: and only MYSELF to blame too.

Heres a hint

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...nc/Oldrear.jpg[/img]

I'm working!

Does that count :lol:...

Cam, though I stay out of Mike's post :roll:, I guess you could say that I (and Skywalker to a lesser extent) represent Superior Carriers on the company driver side over in the "What about his trucking company" forum in my "Tanker info for y'all..." thread.

I like reading this one here since it gives a very good idea to everyone about how much can be made pulling somewhat of a specialized segment of this industry, versus working for a company who pays straight mileage pay alone. One thing is very consistent be it company driver or O/O with chemical tankers. We run fewer miles for the same or more income than our van brethren :wink:.

:?: Maniac, Mike, Orangetxguy, and Paul...I'll be sending you all pm's asap with some questions.

Rut Roh,is this the reason for the vacation?

No actually the little woman has a buisness trip to Vancouver BC and all I had to do was pay my airfare and I could go along ........anything to get out of work 8) I know. After the week I had, :dung:I need a break

The big green machine is already fixed and running...........GEEZ if it wasn't for bad luck I wouldn't have any. 2 years 2 rears............ :roll:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...nc/Newrear.jpg

79k gross in PA and WV, this isn't typical in the fleet, is it?

Cool, I appreciate it. All of you are saying the same thing. I need to pray about this. Largely it's about timing and giving up the complete control of my dispatching. One thing is for sure, I don't like thin profit margins. I won't be satisfied until I'm earning more than enough.

By typical do you mean 79K gross, or what happened to my rear end?

The answer would be yes and no.

79K gross is pretty accurate, chemicals are shipped at max legal almost all of the time, since the rate is high the customer wants max loads.

There are exceptions, like when a customer only needs a certain amount of product, but they are few.

As far as my rear end goes, I know that the components in my truck are at the edge of their operating strengh, the BIG Cat puts out lots and lots of power, and this is taking its toll on the drivetrain.

Of course I didn;t help it by driving 60 miles or so at 70 MPH with the power divider locked IN :oops:

I have been pulling tankers since the late 80's and have NEVER EVER had a componenet failure due to the liquid surge, and also NEVER any failures or problems due to idling either.

These newer, higher horsepower trucks are pushing components to their breaking strengh, simple as that, of course the manufacturers would disagree with me, BUT look at it this way, the manufacturers CLAIM these engines and component can go 1 million miles, yet ONLY warranty them for 500,000 miles.................why is that?

Sems to me they would put their money where thier mouth is and come out with a million mile warranty.

Tankers are still the BEST $$$..hands down.

Ok thanks, Maniac. It's just that whenever I get myself into a situation where I'm pulling heavy in the mountains it's almost like I can feel the strain myself. The truck may be doing just fine but I'm very conscious with the van loads that the light loads pay just as well and I try when I can to pull lighter loads on flatter land.

So, tanker guys aren't replacing their rears all the time. There are trade offs, more money but also max gross loads in the mountains at times. I'm hearing the trade off is worth it and I can believe it.

Like I said, NO better money with any other type of freight.

Heavy, YEP, but definitley worth it, just go up to ANY tanker driver and ask 8)

I will add that 45,000# in a tank feels like 50,000# in a van,when rolling up and down hills.The damn liquid feels like it is pulling you backwards..... :o

How about 52,000 pounds!


When I pulled food-grade for Jim Aartman that was our average net weight per load. :lol: