Is this a good truck??
 

we are looking at a 2000 W900 with an N14 cummins engine. (300,000 on the rebuild documented)

It has 3:55 rears

super 10 trannie

new clutch, brakes, rubber, turbo

was a lease operator truck (he traded it in on a dump truck)

He ran from omaha back east. (we run all 48 and alot of west coast)

price is 35,000

sound like a reasonable truck? We will have a dyno done on it....what else should be done?

tootie

Remember there are other components to a truck, what are the actual miles driven on this truck.
And a super 10 sucks, IMHO. :wink:

This truck has just over a million on it.

DH does not mind the super 10 as far as that is concerned I dont think there is anything out there he cant drive. :lol:

tootie

See if they have history/maintenance records on that truck, last thing you want to buy is a truck that is going to need a lot of work done to it.

I wouldn`t pay more then 30k if it checks out

Thanks for the advice...we found another 2000 W900L with 1.1 million on it but a BRAND NEW Cat engine just put in it. This one is also 35,000 we are going to look at it tomorrow.
It is a 86" studio sleeper to boot.


tootie

2 things I would for sure do, get a dyno test run on the engine, and get oil analysis test run. If the person really wants to sell you the Truck, sometimes they will pay for this if you ask.

But if they won't pay for it, it would be a very wise investment to have it done. It will tell you exactly what is going on with that engine.

I looked at a couple of W900's last year. I could have bought one for $25M, the other they wanted about $28M. Both were 1999's. Keep in mind if you get the 86" studio that you will be heavy. More weight means you may not be able to haul some loads. But the do look good, and I like that 86" studio sleeper. :wink: I don't think I would go more than $30M.

if somebody isn`t willing to pay a few hundred dollars to get a truck checked out by a private party but is willing to take thousands off the price then its time to walk away.

I agree with brian and gman....we are going to look at the second truck today. but the ice storm in tulsa may get in the way....but what ever we get will have a dyno and oil sample done it will be well worth the money. The truck with the new CAT has only 1,000 miles on the nw motor.

tootie

If the truck has had an overhaul, you need to check the paperwork. Not all overhauls are created equal. You need to check to see what was done.

The studio sleeper we are looking at has a BRAND NEW cat in it. We have them down to 32,000 we are looking at payments of about 1200 a month which is ALOT less than 2200 we are paying now. Oh and they are putting brand new virgin rubber on it.

tootie

That is a big payment for a $35M truck. You may want to check around on the financing. Then again, you will be able to pay it off faster with a larger payment. One other thing to keep in mind is that the W900's aren't know for their fuel economy.

Why would you need a "dyno", on a new engine?

I'd pay much more attention, to the other components. Cause at that kinda mileage, if it weren't already replaced, it's due any day.
Does he has any documented history, of such repairs?

Unless the turbo was replaced at the time of overhaul, it is subject to go out before long. Those are not cheap to replace.

Our interest rate is going to be high....but this is our first truck. It will be paid off in 2.5 years. We are only going to keep it for a year or so....this just gets our foot in the door so to speak.

The springs, shackles and other stuff under the truck have been replaced and shocks....I know the fuel milage will suck....not the 7.5 we get right now anyway. I am thinking more like 5 or so. Our goal is to get a newer 86" sleeper with a cummins ISX in it. Those are hard to find I think.

The dyno will not be done because of new engine.

tootie

changing an engine or rebuilding it is like taking a 90 year old man and replacing his heart. what do you have when your done? a 90 year old man with a new heart but bad leg, lung, arms, head, brain, liver,........should i go on? just cause the motors been done don't mean you should be all over it and think you are saving money. you need to have the whole rig checked out COMPLETELY

Yes, the truck will be checked out completley by a mechanic we know who is not associated with the dealership. He has been working on trucks for like 20 years or so. Also thi truck is a one owner truck and he has all the reciepts for everthing he ever did to the truck.

tootie

I have to agree with Gman...Turbo's are one of my biggest fears with used trucks.

You are less likely to have a problem with a turbo if the oil has been changed regularly. The reason most will fail is due to improper lubrication of the bearings. If the oil gets dirty the bearings may not get proper lubrication and they fail. Replacing a turbo can run between about $1,300-1,800. The reason I want to see what was replaced during an overhaul is that some components which should be replaced were not. I recently had to put my KW in the shop to have the lifters replaced. The final cost was almost $7,000. This is on an engine that was rebuilt less than 200,000 miles ago. That is a weak area of the C-12 or 3406E (same engine). The rebuild was over $15,000, but the lifters and bearings were not replaced even though CAT knew about the high failure rate of the lifters and bearings. All they normally do is look them over at the time of overhaul and unless they see a problem, put it back together. With the high failure rate, it should routinely be replaced during an overhaul. Essentially the overhaul now costs about $21,000. On a CAT, an overhaul can typically run from about $10,000 to over $18,000. Had the lifters been replaced during the overhaul it would probably have cost less than $3,000. Because of the failure the CAM needed to be replaced at a cost of $1,100 and of course new gaskets, etc., In talking to my local CAT dealer, once the lifters and bearings have been replaced there is rarely a failure. Had the guy who had the engine rebuilt bought the extended warranty for $1,100 the lifter failure would have been covered under the warranty. :evil:

Along the same lines has anyone ever purchased a used truck warrenty? are they worth it?

I will say 2 things
1. stay away from the million milers
2. if you are tight on money, dont buy that CAT or any CAT

Spend $30K on a lower mile tractor with a DETROIT and go trucking and make your money back. You are about to make a major decision and you are still looking for a company to help you make the money to keep the repo man from taking back the truck, if it lasts that long. There are more components on that truck with a million miles on it to think about besides the "new" engine. Its probably not "brand New". BEWARE

I don't think a used truck warranty is worth the cost. You would do better having an oil analysis and dyno done on the engine. The warranties cost several thousand dollars and don't cover everything which can go wrong with the truck. It is much less costly to have the truck checked by a reputable mechanic. It won't take all of the risk out of buying a truck, but can greatly reduce the chance of anything major happening. The mechanic, dyno and oil analysis will tell you most everything you need to know for a few hundred dollars.

Thanks Gman, I kinda thought that. I'm always leery of insurance plans anyway.

Whatever you do, don't go with Eagle warranty. They are the biggest rip offs in the country. :shock: :!: :evil: :x

you can find some nice older cheep trucks my first truck was a 98 western star that i bought for 17000 and it had 100,000 on a rebuild and 890,000 on everything else and had no problems with it with older trucks it is a lot of luck and make sure you have money set aside for repairs

Oil analysis and dyno are a must. As to overhaul - all are not the same - some guys do rods and mains and call that an overhaul. The only way I can see an inframe at 20k is if you do the front cover also. Many do not.

So speak with your shop and decide on just what YOU want on the OH. Packs, liners, heads, injectors, turbo(s), etc.

Most of the O/H's I have seen done on either CAT or N-14 engines run in the 9-14k range with super extensive ones @20k.

I will update after everything is checked out on the truck. All i know is the finance company wanted the specs on the truck. So I guess we wont hear anymore till at least tuesday.

tootie

used trucks
 

I see that most truckers agree that a Dyno Test and oil analysis is a must for buying a used truck but what if the truck is fairly new like 2-3 years old with no more then 250,000 miles or less.. should u still do both test? Hope I'm not hijacking

Cheers

Yep.......

Re: used trucks
 

I have known of engines that have had to be rebuilt with about 300,000 miles. It depends on how well the truck was maintained and driven. :shock:

Once saw a CAT with 300k on it that was so bad - complete swap had to be done. We couldn't even get a short block - had to piece it together.

I don't think I have ever heard of a CAT not lasting longer than 300,000 miles, but the brand doesn't matter if the engine is abused and maintenance thrown to the wind. I think I have heard of more Cummins not lasting as long as Detroit and CAT. But if gunk builds up in the engine it will not properly lubricate components resulting in failure. Frequent oil changes will help prevent or at least prolong component failure. That is why I don't always use mileage as the indicator as to whether a truck is in good shape or not.

My dad had a 3406E CAT (425hp) that went 800,000 before he did an in-frame on it. He finally sold it at 1.2m and it is still on the road hauling lumber and probably has atleast 1.4 on it now. With that being said... he is religous about PM and has oil analysis done at frequent intervals to keep a check on things.

These new generation CAT engines have a long way to catch up to the old 3406's. The new EPA laws and low sulphur diesel doesn't help it though.

IMO, it is a pretty big gamble to buy a truck without some kinda idea to what is going on with it. You consider most of these engines cost atleast 12-13k to rebuild and an oil analysis makes alot of since! Just my .02 though!

I have 3406E's in my trucks. They are real work horses. I have over 800M miles on one and it has never had the head off. (Knock on wood) :wink: The truck runs great. It would not surprise me if I got more than a million miles on the engine before having an in-frame. I think it is a good idea to have an oil analysis at least every 3rd oil change. I have known of some who have an analysis done at every oil change. It is one of the least expensive preventative checks you can do to an engine. It can alert you to potential bearing failures or other component problems. It is much less expensive to make repairs before a component fails. Some oil change service centers can give you the results on site before you leave the premises. Flying J at the Grapevine, California will do them on site, or did.

oil
 

Thanks GMAN I will get that done on my next purchase..

oil
 

also GMan u did'nt mention the dyno test is this as important as the oil analysis?

cheers

Unless it is unavoidable my dad hardly ever uses the "big chain" maintenance centers. We have a local mechanic that we TRUST to do all the pm and mild maintenance. Engine work is left to the engine dealers. It amazes me of all the incompetent mechanics out there these days! Not to mention they charge you an arm and a leg for doing anything. I hate having someone work on my equipment that I do not know. I realize that its hard to do all the time, but I recommend trying to find a good mechanic with a trusted reputation.

Gman - that CAT was lunched.

I know of a 3406 mechanical with 2.4 million on it. Guy is religious about his PM's with Rotella and Cat filters.

CAT's tend to have water pumps go out, Cummins - EGR, Detroit (at one time) had a problem with ventilating the block with a piston.

They all have their quirks. I am a CAT man - their warranty/policy department is much more open minded than Cummins.

Just a thought if your looking at a 86" studio W900L, I have one with a 500 Detroit, 355 gears, 13 fuller and 280" wb. I get between 5.8 and 6.3 mpg depending on where I run and how fast I run. I like the fuel mileage but The Detroit doesn't come close to pulling like a Cat. Also, my weight with full tanks(dual 150's) is just over 21000 so keep that in mind if you plan on running a lot of 45000 pound loads. I plan on getting a Cummins next, I believe them to be the best of both worlds. Better mileage then a Cat and better pulling power then a Detroit. Just my opinions hope it helps.