Need Advice From Successful Owner/Operators
 

Please, I would really appreciate only receiving replies from successful Owner/Operators who are not only living it, but have been for quite some time. This is a very serious decision for me and I really only want advice from those that can state facts based on first hand experience. Thanks :)

Let me first state a few facts about myself, so you understand my individual situation. I'm divorced with no car payment, mortgage or child support. I have bills, but nothing major. I have a class A CDL with TX endorsements and have been driving professionally for just over two years. I've done flatbed(Arrow), reefer(Marten) and van(Arrow & Crete). I'm not interested in ever doing flatbed again and won't even consider reefer until they change the HOS to where I feel I can make enough money and still run legal. I'm open minded about tanker. I have been driving for Crete almost eight months now and am very content.

If I'm to become an O/O, I MUST be leased on to a company that allows me to take part in their group medical insurance plan. Primarily for the prescription drug plan. Otherwise it will be cost prohibitive for me to become an O/O. This is NOT optional and if I can't do this, I can't become an O/O. So as you can see, that severely limits my options right out of the gate.

The good news is that Crete offers it's Owner/Operators just that! :D
They also have a new or used tractor purchase program and two pay scale options for their O/O.

I've talked to all types of O/O over the last few years. Independents with their own authority, those leased to companies, those doing straight leases and even those doing company lease/purchases. Ideally I would love be able to buy a new truck directly from a dealer and be an O/O with my own authority, but based on my previously mentioned needs am not sure it's fiscally possible/realistic.

Based on what I've learned by talking to all those various O/O and given my personal situation, Here's what I'm seriously considering doing.

I'd buy a used Century from Crete and pay it off ASAP while gaining valuable experience as an independent contractor. I would select pay scale option one and try to run primarily trips 1,200 miles and less, which is 81% of Crete's yearly loads. If after I pay the truck off, I still want to be an O/O, I'll trade the truck in on a new International, Kenworth or Peterbilt. The reason I say those three is that I've been told they're about the only trucks that truly hold their value. I like Volvos, but have been told to avoid them like the plague as an O/O due to maintenance issues. :cry: Please correct me if I'm wrong.

I know most will say to buy from a dealer, not a company. The reason I'm going with Crete is no down payment, decent interest rate, I somewhat know how the trucks have been maintained and they extend the warranty 200,000 miles. Yes, I know Selectrucks does that too and they're not out of the question entirely, but I don't know the maintenance history on them as well and I'd just prefer buying used from Crete.

I guess what I'm asking you to do is take a look at the links containing all the facts I've supplied and with what I've said I plan to do in mind, pick it apart. :wink:

Well that or tell me I've done my homework and to stop being such a chicken and GO FOR IT! :lol:

Thanks in advance. :D

Question
What happens 6 months from now when Crete only has 300 mile loads for you and they take 2 days to load and unload and this happens for 2 months in a row?

I know this doesn't seem realistic to you,you seem to have made up your mind already.

But fleece purcheses are set up to be good for the company and bad for the owner,you have no leverage, you cannot take your(their) truck to a different company when freight falls thru the floor.

It has been said 100 times here and I know you have some special circumstanes,but you need to save up enough money to have a good sizes down payment on a used truck and have atleast $10,000 in reserve for emergency breakdown repairs.

To me and I just came from a container company I don't think Crete pays enough to be an O/O there.

Your revenue should:
1) Cover ALL your expenses.....take a good hard look at all of them.
2) Cover paying yourself (as a MINIMUM) what you currently make as a company driver.
3) Pay a min of 10-12% return on investment (ROI) on the money you are investing in your business.

I'm think'n it will be hard to achieve that on $0.95-$1 per mile.

Considering this guy pushes crete, and even has crete in his signature. On top of that, he just sounds like a recruiter.

Mike3fan, thanks for the reply. It's an actual outright purchase on my credit with a down payment, not a lease/purchase. I have taken into consideration what you're referring to about slow times and no I have not made up my mind already. Doing my homework first.

Geomon, thanks for the reply. I've done what you suggested and am inclined to agree with you especially if the unforeseen catastrophe were to happen. It could sink me. :cry:

Allan5oh, thanks for ignoring my wishes and posting useless drivel on my thread. I'm not a recruiter, just a satisfied Crete driver and like to help others find a decent company where they'll be happy to drive like I am. If all I was interested in was making money off of recruiting drivers for Crete, I'd have my name and truck number in my sig too. Now kindly stay off my thread! :evil:

97% of your loads will pay from $0.86-1/mile. Deadhead pays $0.67/mile and according to the information provided around 8% if deadhead miles. Fuel costs will run around $0.50/mile based upon current prices. Frankly, I don't see how you can come out on the money. Personally, I could not see myself leasing to any carrier where I would average considerably less $1/mile. I prefer percentage. It is usually more profitable for the owner operator. If I read the information correctly, you will be required to keep the truck leased to Crete or one of their companies until the truck is paid off. That may not be good for the owner operator. While payments are manageable, they are still high for a first truck. I prefer seeing a payment of around $500-800/month. While it sounds good to not have a down payment, you should not go into buying a truck without some money in the bank. All trucks break down. You need to make sure to have some cash in reserve for breakdowns. I would also suggest you get your own financing. That way, you can leave if and when you decide to do so.

I agree with Gman, if you are able to, get your own financing. You don't want to be married to any company. When things get really tough (and hopefuly it would never happen to you) you want to have the option to take your truck elsewhere. Its your business, and you need to take the right steps to protect your investment. I will never lease a car, same goes for a truck, its not really yours and by the time it is you've paid far more than if you would have purchased it off the bat. Trucking is my livelyhood and I want to be the one in control over my business.

Lease options are only good for the company you lease from, talk to some of the poor saps at England that bought into leasing a truck, they are hurting bad. High payments and just enough miles to pay the truck bill. Talked with guys at Stevens who lease those shiny black Petes, they too have high payments and many have to take on student drivers just to make ends meet. Maybe your company is different, maybe not. But for me, I would NEVER get into a lease, its bad business. **edit** Look at this topic, a good read about someones experience with a lease at England http://www.classadrivers.com/phpBB2/...ic.php?t=17668

I got the cash I needed to buy my first truck from a 2nd on my morgage. I did this because worst case, my payment would only be $450 a month, so if I didn't work I could come up with at least that and not lose my truck. And, with my change in work (no paychecks for 4 mos) I've had to fall back on that bare min. payment, but once my checks come in again I'll start making those $2000+ payments to get the loan free and clear from my head. I got a very nice fully loaded Peterbilt (2001 387) with 677k miles for 43k, and it made me about 10k a month with easy running. My situation required me to sell it only after 3 months and buy a local runnning truck, but I turned a profit on that rig so I didn't do bad. Good trucks are out there, look in truckpaper.com, shop around a bit. Many dealers will pay to fly you out to the lot and even give you some kickbacks to make the sale (new tires, free warranties, ect).

I'm rambling now I guess.. By no means do I have a ton of experience in this field, but I run my business like a business. And as I said before, a lease option is bad business in my book. Many on here will agree. But, as I say to everyone. Do what YOU feel is right for YOU. You may fail, or you may succeed. Do what you personally are comfortable with. I've always trusted my gut, most the time it works out for me. Best of luck :)

GMAN, Thanks for the reply. Yours is exactly the kind of reply I'm looking for. You are correct on the numbers you posted and yes, I would have to remain with Crete or refinance the truck before I left. Which wouldn't be a problem. I guess I'll just continue as a company driver and save money for now. I'm assuming you do not suggest buying a new truck when just starting out, so what make, model and year of truck do you suggest for the kind of payment you mentioned? I just worry about inheriting someone else's headaches if I buy used.

Floored, thanks for the reply. As I stated in my last post, it's not a lease/purchase. It's an actual purchase with a credit check and a down payment. I do understand where you and the others are coming from though. I doubt I'll buy through a carrier now. :)

I know my end goal is to become an independent O/O with my own authority. I just don't know how to make that dream a reality from where I currently stand. I'm concerned I'll never be able to become an independent O/O, because I'll always need to have prescription coverage or pay around $1000 per month out of my own pocket. :cry: What do you guys do for medical coverage when you have a pre existing condition as an independent O/O? Thanks again for all your insight. :)

It will be neigh-on-impossible to make more as an O/O that as a company man with Crete if you throw an extra $20k/year into the equation for health insurance and Rx.

Didn't see the outright purchase part in your first post, oops.

There are many good trucks than can be had in the 30-40k price range. I see no reason to buy a new rig when you are starting out. Do whatever you can to keep your payments as low as possible, you don't want to hit a bad spell and lose your truck. I think you should run smart and buy something more plain jane that gets good fuel milage vs a flashy chormed out longnose "truckers truck". Get a dyno done on the truck you wish to purchase. If your worried have your own mechanic of choice look it over. Get a warranty (however I always opt out on this and haven't needed to use it). You'll have problems with almost any truck, be it new or used. The dyno and mechanic report will tell you a lot on your purchase. My Pete needed about 3k in repairs over the time I had it, nothing was taken care of by its warranty, thus why I pass on them now. My Freightliner hasn't had a single problem. Thing is, I just deal with it as it comes, part of owning a business, you know?

Yeah, but as and O/O leased to Crete you are allowed to pay for group health insurance. Single it's $300 or $350 depending on which deductible you choose. I'd go with the $300 plan.

Yeah, I'm not your typical trucker and could care less about chrome and long hoods. Actually, I prefer the aerodynamic trucks due to the better fuel mileage. This would be a purely business decision. That's why I was considering a used Century through Crete. It's nothing fancy, costs $35,550 with payments of $1,200 a month and that's if I put nothing down.

FBN...
A question for you on the purchase thru Crete plan....do I understand that if you want out of the Crete lease and find your own financing, you can do it?

Example: you buy a new truck thru Crete (taking advantage of their buying power) and then 8 mos (or some time) down the road you decide to leave Crete for another company or your own authority. Is all you have to do is secure your own financing and "buy" them out? Are there hidden term limits or other clauses that keep you there for a certain time period?

That's an excellent question and one I wasn't completely sure of the answer to myself, so I made a phone call and the answer I got is that there are no clauses, penalties or hidden term limits etc. You can secure your own financing and leave at any time. However, I think you'd be hard pressed to get as good a deal on a new Classic XL or Century at that price and interest rate elsewhere. That's one of the main reasons I was considering buying through Crete. :)

I don't think it is a good idea for anyone starting out to buy a new truck. Unless you have enough money to pay cash or have a substantial down payment, you cannot afford to make the payments and earn a decent living. I would not want to see anyone just starting out to put themselves under that much pressure.

I don't concern myself too much with the year model as I do the condition and what has been done on the truck. For instance, it could have had a recent overhaul. That adds value to me, but my not add dollar value to the purchase price. The engine is the most expensive component that you will need to replace. Some trucks I would consider are Intenational, Freightliner, Kenworth (T-600), Volvo. You can probably get into a Freightliner for less than the others, then Volvo, International and KW. I first look for value. Then I look at the brand. A good truck is one that is in good shape you can buy without having to mortgage the farm. You can get a lemon in any truck, new or used. If you properly check out a truck, there is no reason to think that you won't get a good value. Find a mechanic you can trust and either take him with you or take the truck to him to check. Ask for maintenance records, if available, and have a oil analysis and dyno performed on the truck once you find one you want to purchase. A truck is only a tool you use to make a living. Take away all the bells and whistles, chrome, etc., and a new truck will not make any more money for you than a quality used truck. With only a few exceptions, they all have the same engines and transmissions, etc., The main difference you pay is for the skin. I have owned several different brands and I can tell you that there really isn't all that much difference in any of them. I do like the way the International Pro Sleeper is laid out. I like the ride of a Volvo. I liked my Peterbilt, but can't see spending the difference to buy another one over something else. My Kenworth is a good truck. I got a good deal on most of the trucks I have purchased. Getting the deal I wanted is the main reason I bought all of them except the Peterbilt. It had the spec's I needed. I hauled cars at the time and it had a rack already installed. With fuel prices being so high, an aerodynamic truck is probably your better choice. If you find a particular brand that you like, start checking around for good deals. I don't care as much for Freightliner but they have served many fleets well. You can certainly get into one for less than other brands. You want to be comfortable while on the road. You DON'T want to be stressed out making high payments.

As far as insurance is concerned, I would look into some of the associations who offer health insurance. Some may cover pre-existing conditions. Some states may offer health insurance for those who are uninsurable.

Thanks again, GMAN. Given my choice, I'd go with a Volvo assuming the maintenance issues really aren't as bad as I've heard. Anyone know if Arrow Truck Sales is worth going through for a Volvo or am I better off buying elsewhere? Not really sure of the exact differences between the six and seven series Volvos other than size. I know the sevens are a step up, but how so and would I be just as happy in a six series as a solo driver? Also, I don't know a lot about the various engines offered for trucks. I've only ever driven Cats and Detriots and haven't had any serious issues with either. Well, I guess the Cat seemed to have better pulling power and less issues. I've heard good things about Cummins and mixed about Volvos. Although I know the Volvo diesels for boats are awesome. I guess it's really personal preference. Like Ford or Chevy. :lol: I seem to recall reading on a website that Wyoming does offer something like that! I'll have to do some more investigating on insurance again. Thanks! :)

I was all set to buy a used Volvo from Arrow here in Stockton, CA. When I went in there I told them I did not want anything that was a known repo truck (because we all know if the dude couldn't make his payments he sure as heck wasn't keeping the truck up).. anyway, got the paperwork to get it registered the day before I was to take delivery and sure enough it was a repo truck and worse yet, it was sitting on the lot for 2 years! Ugh, headache waiting to happen I figured so I got my deposit back.

Am I saying they are bad to deal with? Not at all. Just be sure to watch yourself anywhere you go when buying and be sure you are getting the truck you are looking for. ;)

Mike, I'm a 24 year old o/o and I don't even own a truck. Am I successful, I suppose. I run an operation that avg's well over $3 a mile. Over $5 loaded!! :lol: ( I go out of route a LOT for personal reasons, or bobtail to and from my agent wheni get home. Its also my "rental vehicle" on layovers, my DH is well over 10% :wink: )

I couldn't image running for that kind of money, because it wouldn't afford me any fun. The truck costs me at least 70cpm, so If I deadhead 200 miles out of route to vist Teal95KW's gf when he's on the road or to a family member's house :wink: :shock: :lol: :lol:

...Thats damn near $150 out of pocket. For you, thats like wayy more than 150 miles driven for you. (sure, $150 in revenue, but profit from the 150 miles won't be NEAR $150 dollars).

I do have a point to this, besides I can't manage money and buy dirt bikes when I'm bored on the road :)

Point 1-
Leasing a truck onto the same carrier you are contracted to isn't always safe. THEY control your miles, remember that. If all dispatchers could give their drivers what they want, they would give them THOSE desired loads. But, they can't. As said above about the 300 mile runs :wink:

Point 2-
Pay scale. As a newbie, its a recipe for disaster. Remember how I said I drive out of route? Well, I get lost too. Every mile I turn getting back on track is at leats 60 cpm, if not the full 70. I was deadheading to Atlantic City and missed the exit and had to pay the toll TWICE to turn around (Delaware water gap??) I'm a magician, I can pee $30!!! :) Gone in less than 5 min. Rookie mistakes (o/o rookie) or additional costs of business are hard to budget on $1 a mile. I get close to that deadheading to loads :wink:

Point 3- combo of 1&2.... Having someone control your miles, on a low pay scale can bite ya in the ass. BUying your truck through a vendor like Arrow or etc and THEN leasing to a carrier will be advisable. If they don't give ya the miles, they know you can find .10-.15 a more elsehwere (if not, and hopefully more!) Point 3- you need to research some more carriers. Atlas Special Products or even boat hauling are options.

The more niche specific you get, the more $$. I move people's furniture and cars. Thats what I do. Some haul bulls and have to shovel SHIZZABELLE out of their traile.

IN your situation, the "Crete O/O Dream" could work, so I won't down it too much. I could probably make a post with all the benefits of your plan as well if ya want :)

I actually just read above and saw the posts about Arrow. The funny thing, is I didn't read those before I mentioned it in above post :)

SelecTrucks should be like your 4th or 5th choice :wink:

Check out this link:

http://www.truckdiscountmart.com/

You seem like you want this, so between the bunch of us, we'll help ya figure out a gameplan :)

It's better than the people who start the namecalling and defending carriers o/o pay scales that don't even have a CDL yet :) :) (not goonna mention any names lol)

Don't go with any body that is only offering a $1.00mi you will lose everything. As far as Arrow stay as far away from them as you can.

For motors I would go with a Cat or Cummins. The difference between the Volvo 760 and 770 is that the 770 has bigger sleeper and is much heavier.

Floored,
Thanks for the info. I'm very nervous about buying a used truck from a dealer, because it's so hard to get all the actual facts/history. :cry:

BanditsCousin,
Thanks for the reply. I've got 15 years on you and can't/won't do a lot of the physical work some of the niche stuff you mentioned requires. I'm aware that I'm limiting my potential income, but I'm ok with that. I'd really prefer to stick with van for now and possibly try tanker at some point.

NascarFan,
Thanks for the reply. That's what I've generally been told by most O/O when I've asked about engines. Wish I'd had a Cummins in one of my trucks so I could make a choice. I know I'd choose Cat over Detroit though. What I meant about the difference between the six and seven series is like the 660/670 compared to the 770/780. I knew the sleeper size and obvious weights associated with the extra size, but are there any other differences besides that? ie Do they have the same general dashes, interiors etc. I can live with say a 670 over a 780 in order to save money on my first truck.

What frustrates me the most is that the major thing stopping me from just buying a truck and going for it, other than money of course, is I MUST have medical insurance with prescription coverage. Not having it simply isn't an option and if that means I'm trapped into being a company driver in order to meet my health needs, I guess I'll just have to accept it. :cry:

Do you realise, that with those pay, you wouldn' be makig more than a company driver? Most likely even less.
So what's the reason? :roll:

No, I don't realize that. Thus the reason I posted this thread. I've talked to several of the O/O at Crete and they say they make a lot more than the company drivers and have a lot more independence and control of their personal time. Some have their own trucks they brought with them and some have bought one from Crete, but ALL of them were happy and claimed to make a very good living. I'm just trying to get as much info as possible from ALL sources, so I can make an educated/informed decision. I get your point and agree with you. I mean why have all the headache, responsibility and risk of an O/O if I can make about the same money being a company driver without it. If I find that to be the case, I won't become an O/O at Crete. The problem is, MOST O/O do not have to take into consideration the health issues/costs that I do. If I didn't have the issues I have, I can assure you I'd already be an O/O.

Well, correct me if I'm wrong, but as a company driver, you could make some $0.40 per mile+bennys+SS tax, so it's more like $0.45-47cpm.
So just to match it O/O suppose to make around $1.20 (least amount) for loaded empty.
Do they? :roll:

And what kind of independence and freedom is that, if you got to constantly run, just to survive?
The sad truth is, that a lot of folks simply don't know the difference.... :sad:

"A nice Living" can be defined a million different ways. I bet they make about 60-65K (the Crete o/o's). Look at my figures above, and I still don't think I make enough! :)

Gross? Maybe. Net? No way. They would have to have a yearly gross of probably around $150,000 or more to net 60-65K. And on top of that, they pay more tax than a company driver.

Well, I currently make .41 cents per practical route mile and I've averaged around 2,550 paid miles a week since I've been with Crete and that includes home time. I do have decent benefits and I'll get a penny raise in May. I'm guessing I'll gross around $45K for 2006. I'll just start asking the O/O how the hell they're making it at Crete and what EXACTLY they make after expenses. I know they're not running illegal, because you can't get away with it at Crete. Well, not for long anyway. Good points made by all, thanks. :)

If you want to check the history of the engine, you can take the serial number from the engine and then get in touch with Cummins, CAT or Detroit, and they can tell you what has been done, if anything, on the engine, provided it was done at an authorized dealer.


Start keeping track of your expenses while still being a company driver. You can also download a spreadsheet off of the OOIDA website which will give you a rough idea of expenses you will incur as an owner operator. www.ooida.com is the web address. I am not sure whether you need to be a member or not to access the spreadsheet. It is designed where you can play with the numbers and see if you can make any money with the expenses you will likely incur.

How does Crete keep drivers from running illegally?

Also, me gusta Catepillar :)

Thanks Gman, I'll check that out. I don't have Excel, but I'll read about it on the site. I used to be in IT and don't want anything more to do with M$. I switched to Macs and will never go back. :D However, I do have Windows XP Pro installed on my Mac, but only for gaming. :P I like having my cake and eating it too. :lol:

BanditsCousin, Crete runs electronic logs now. Sorta like Werner, but not paperless. Big Brother (Qualcomm) is watching you. :roll: You can run, but you can't hide. Unless it's under a bridge, fuel island, garage, trees, etc :lol:

Yikes! I know paper logs are a pain, but to their credit, I've never been late to a load :)

I've heard a lot more stories of companies auditing logs throuigh the qualcomm. I have yet to see sufficient proof, since Qualcomm isn't admissable in court :wink: A United driver went to court and they had to throw it out because Qualcomm updates in periods that make it inaccurate. I argued with my dispatcher till he showed me proof.

So, with your o/o dream, lets see what it costs, and what it pays YOU-

Company driver-40cpm + Benny and the Jets

Owner Operator Expenses-
fuel-55cpm (currently)
maint- 5cpm
truck payment- .15 ($1500/mo @ 10,000 miles driven/month)
Insurance- 5cpm ($500/mo @ 10,000 mi)
Qualcomm fee??????
Escrow?????
What does layover pay???

So, we're at 80 cpm ($.80) to run your truck. the insurance figure could be wrong, but includes bobtail, liability, and workman's comp. At $1.26 ALL miles (w/FSC), you are looking at a profit of $.46 if you run right. Sure, the amount of profit will be more when the truck is paid off- but thats 3 years. I your desire for the open road fades. you have a depreciated Freightliner that you'll ned to pawn off on someone :) Which bring me to another point- drivers that work cheaper because the equipment is paid for. Thats the type of job THIS is :wink:

Can you take the truck to another carrier??? That is the question :) IF they know you can jump ship and take the equipment they're likely to keep you loaded, running and (hopefully) happy :)

Any which way you put it, its a gamble. You'll need to run hard and never come home. And you should find out what is being made. As REv Vassago shot down, 60-65K would be an extreme upper end of the spectrum, and might require teaming or lots of hand loads/unloads and miles. Overdrive magazine says the avg O/O makes about 45,000/yr. My actual income is probably less than that when I add up expenses.

OH, I forgot to mention insurance-

You are so gung-ho on this insurance bit, and how you "must" have group insurance and whatnot. Group insurance isn't always cheaper and/or provides more benefits.

As an o/o, we both know you'll need health insurance. I use Blue Cross Blue Shield and it costs me about $114/mo for some awsome coverage. Same thin with TRUCK insurance. I found better deals through GE for truck insurance and OOIDA for workman's comp. Mama always told me "you betta shop around!"

HTH :)

I've got medical and dental for my entire family (me, wife, 2 kids), and it runs me around $485 per month with a $1000 deductible on the medical. I've looked into the group plan that my company offers, and they couldn't cover me for under $500 for medical only, and the benefits were a whole lot less.

Am i missing something? Or it's just a misprint?
BC/BS for me and wife(set as a small group) $557 currently for me! :roll:

Didn't know if you saw the above post or not. The deductibles are $1,000 and $500 respectively and it's good insurance, BC/BS. Either way, I have a pre existing condition that will not be covered if I were to get my own private health insurance policy. Trust me, I've tried.

Speaking of insurance, here's a new twist that's been going on more and more. I know 2 single women who are insuring single guys on there policy for extra cash. I know that one gets $100 per month. Some insurance companies are insuring what they call, "Significant others".

I have BC/BS PPO with no deductible for $438 per month. That's for a single person.

I bought my first truck at the age of 25, I always pay cash for everything if I can, I don't like to owe money, I always have extra money put away (at least ten thousand) in case of emergency repairs to the truck, If I use the credit card for repairs etc. I always pay it off at the end of the month

I personally wouldn't buy a truck from a company because then you are sort of stuck with that company

I would suggest a used truck for a first time buyer, buying a new truck as a first truck can be asking for trouble as most first time buyers don't have money set away for when miles are low and there is always a good chance of losing the truck because you can not afford to make payments

I have owned used and new trucks and there are advantages and disadvantages to both

New trucks have the advantage of everything being under warrenty, but big payments, used trucks, have more maintenence

Get a good accountant, and I would suggest becoming incorporated, you will get more tax write offs

I was very young when I became an O/O and I am still young, but I was smart with my money and I think I have been very successful in what I do

BC/BS for me is $138 per month. The plan through NICA is $27 per week, but not as good coverage as BC/BS.

Steve,
That's interesting. How's the new trip coming along? Still fighting off the lot lizards with a winch bar? :P

Shawnee,
As I said in my initial post, I'm leaning toward buying used and definitely intend to incorporate for just the reason you mentioned and even have an excellent accountant that only deals with trucking lined up. :)

Bigmon,
What is NICA? :?

I guess that Bandit's Cousin's insurance is so cheap because he is relatively young compared to some of us>>>> :sad:

A decent BC/BS health policy for my wife and I would run around 3-400 monthly. We are both in our 40's.