Give it to me straight
 

I'm the father of 5. I've been driving a truck for 3 years now. 2 years over the road and the last year delivering fuel locally. The pay is just enough to get by.

The lease purchase deal at John Christener is tempting. I can run pretty hard. Everything on paper looks as if I'll still be making pretty good money even after maintence and expenses.

The problem is, I know things on paper aren't always what happens. Can you tell me if this would be worth it? My wife and I are a little afraid to jump into the deal without hearing from a lot of people first.

Thanks....

Stay local and watch your kids grow.

In a breath

they will be grown up

I second that motion... Stay home and live with your family, they'd rather not have few less trinkets than have you be missing everything for the sake of the truck.

If you think you are barely getting by now, just wait until you are in a fleece purchase deal. These are designed for one reason only, make money for the carrier. There are lot of hidden costs involved in running a truck. If you want to be an owner operator save your money for a good down payment and find a lender. Better yet, save enough to pay cash. I don't recommend buying a truck without having money in reserve. You can buy a truck with a monthly payment of about what most of these fleece purchase deals want weekly. If you buy a truck, you will own it at some point. You will never own a rental unit. If you want to publish their figures on this forum, I am sure that you will get a lot of input. Some of us have owned a number of trucks. We will be glad to give you honest answers to any of your questions.

If your motivation in getting into one of these fleece purchase deals is making more money for your family, it isn't going to happen. Perhaps you would be better off looking for another local or even regional job that could pay more money. Good luck.

Over the years, I've known very few companies that had it set up so that you actually make any money with a lease-purchase. The companies have it set up so that you will run to make your payments, but in the process, you will be making them more money than a company driver because of your "incentive" to own the truck. The vast majority of lease-purchase deals are like revolving doors. A driver goes into it with high hopes, but after realizing the truck payments, maintenance costs, insurance, etc, he realizes that there is still nothing left to pay the bills at home. Two months after they go into the deal, they're gone. If you're barely getting by now, you will most likely find that one of those lease-purchase deals will sink you. Find your own truck, something like an old cab-over in good shape, for about $7,000 to $15,000. Sign it on and get it paid off in a year or so, then build up your reserve to buy something better.

Re: Give it to me straight
 

Exactly!

Short answer;- Forget it, don't ruin your life, all you'd get, is a "cash flow mirage", if that! :sad:

It's tooo true. Save your money and put a good down payment or better yet buy a good used truck for cash. The big companies will lease a truck to almost anyone... That driver will make the companies payments (times two usually).

The only way you will have any money left over at all is to run,run and run. Then you ran so hard the maintenance expenses start to mount up!

Put away a little each week and before too long, your kids will be older and you will be able to buy a truck. Don't get sucked into the "fleece program"! Patience and good luck

You can buy a good used truck for less than $20M. With a good down payment and decent credit, you should have no problem getting it financed with 10-30% down. Most will require about $20%. Payments will run around $500/month, much less than you would pay in a fleece purchase deal. If you choose to lease to a percentage carrier, they usually don't care about the age as long as it looks decent and will pass a DOT inspection. Paying that much for the truck, you won't put such a strain on yourself and actually be able to make money. There is enough stress in this business without the additional pressure of not bringing home a decent paycheck.

Georg
92 cpm + 100% surcharge
If you want a divorce,
This is by far the best route

Go pester the heck out of the regional/local carriers (ABF, OD, Overnight, Roadway, Estes, etc.) and see if you can land a line-haul gig that will get you home every day.

Have you had any snow yet?

i dont understand if people say that fleece purchase is sooo bad...why do people succeed at it? Now ive read some fleece purchase deals and thought WOW how does the driver make money(CR ENGLAND) but then there are some that kinda look like they are trying to help the driver( DJ FRANZEN) it seems the smaller companies have the "best" deals if thats what you wanna call it(a deal)

They don't. That is the problem with them. They are design from the beginning to fail. I don't know who you have been talking to about fleece purchase people being successful, but I only recently met the second person in over 30 years who has told me that they actually completed their fleece purchase. All you have to do is look at the numbers. They don't add up. If you want to lease a truck then find a leasing company and lease one from them. I have spoken to countless drivers who have lost their shirts on these scams. And believe me, they are scams. I still don't understand why the Feds haven't closed them down. If you want to get some feedback from some of us who are owner operators or running our own authority, get their numbers and post them. I would love to talk to several drivers who have actually completed their leases.



I don't think there is such a thing as a carrier sponsored lease purchase deal.

First you would have problems with a truck already paid for at 92cpm

Kepp in mind that there will always be drivers who are successful at Lease purchase. The company controls the money and it is important to show prospective L/P that it is a good deal for them.So there will always be those guy around and they are usually trainers etc.

People always "run the numbers"
but do not take into consideration the "quality of life"

You are leasing from the very company that controls your money.
if your squelch is down right now :
THEY CONTROL YOUR MONEY!!!

this is a very frustrating busness to begin with
not getting home,family problems , excessive delays, short miles

If the company driver needs to get home this weekend
the disp will try to do it to keep his company drivers happy
(theres a driver shortage and he can move on to another company)

If an o/o needs to get home this weekend
the disp will try but he has to make sure he has enough power because
he has his company drivers to take care of.

When the L/P needs to get home this weekend..........baaaahahahahah



^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
The reason they have L/P is that they have a pool of power that cannot say no to ANYTHING for the duration of thier L/P
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

.......................................GOT IT?............................................... ........




YOU CAN'T LEAVE

If you stamp your feet and refuse a load and just go home they will punish you $$$$$$$$ until you cry uncle.

like you read in magazines about drivers l/p saying how they are on their 3rd truck with the lease purchase deal...now a lease purchase isnt something i would do but i believe there are alot of successful drivers who are making money

Read my post again

The companies make sure that a select group of L/P are very successful.

Then they can showcase them to the newbies and desperate.

GMAN...what do you mean you dont think there is a such thing as a carrier sponsored l/p? thx

The L/P deal is right there with getting rich by placing tiny ads in the paper

and make money in real estate with no money down

I apologize, marcel. I left a word out of my post. I meant to say that I don't think that there is a good carrier sponsored lease purchase deal. Most of the lease purchase deals are carrier sponsored. Perhaps that is what I need to do. Offer a lease purchase deal for drivers, pay them $0.90/mile and get rich. :wink:

I have been told that Prime leases the same truck 3 times before someone actually completes the lease. That is not a good track record. Part of the problem with Prime and all of these programs is that they will rent these trucks to anyone who walks in off the street with a CDL. Not everyone is good at running a business. I don't understand why anyone would want to pay $800/week to rent a truck that they will never own and run it for $0.90/mile, when they can buy a good used truck for $500/month and lease to a good percentage carrier and make $1.50/mile or more. From a business standpoint, it just doesn't add up. Some people just don't want to see the realities of a situation. They see what they want to see. That is why most get caught up in these programs.

Those just starting out have no idea of what it takes to run a truck. They look at the revenue numbers and it looks GREAT! It is just that the realities and expense of running the truck outweigh the revenue you can generate with most of these companies.

I have looked at most of these carrier's programs at one time or another. My offer to take a look at any of these carrier's numbers is an open invitation. If I am wrong, I will gladly admit it.

We've beat around that subject so many times.... :sad:

Most people, want to become an O/O, for two main reasons;-

Freedom, and Money! 8)
And you could have both, in a properly arranged deal, but tho, there is Money w/o Freedom(some company drivers, doing very well), there is no Freedom, w/o Money.

With the high lease payments, and low mileage pay, you'd have to run 24/7, just to stay afloat. You'll see many thousands $$$, but just a tiny bit out of it, will actually end up in your pockets.
That's called "cash flow mirage"!

In an order, to call business successful, it supposed to make profit.
And profit comes after all expenses, wages and benefits, and there is no room for profit, in any of those "deals"!
Even those "poster boys" Sonny have mentioned, didn't make any!
Just brake down the numbers, and you could clearly see that! :sad:

But that's a problem! Those cons know, that most people, don't good with the numbers, or simply don't know enough about trucking business, to get a real numbers!
And it doesn't matter, what Sonny, Gman, I...and all others would say, they'll see only big $$$$on a surface, and fall in to the trap!

So, actually, i'm posting this, for very few, who have enough of common sense to listen, cause we've been around this business for a while, and have no reasons, for lying to you!
With all that said, i wish everyone, the very best of luck! 8)

look at dart trucking, i`ve actually met people happy with their deal, their mileage pay isn`t all that great still but their getting their fuel for half of what the rest of us are so it looks a little better, I believe they also have a program were your purchasing the truck not leasing it and the rate was pretty good.

If those ads were really true, and if these deals were all that great, these people would be talking our heads off in the truck stops. You would not be able to shut them up. Most won't admit that they were so foolish as to get involved in one of these fleece purchase deals. :wink:

If these programs are so good why are they on their THIRD truck. Wouldn't they own the first two already? Once they owned a truck woundn't they be able to trade that one in when they wanted another?

I see several possibilities.

1) They failed on the first two attempts and are stupidly trying for the third time.
2) They ended up making the final lease payment on the first two and couldn't make the final lump sum payment.
3) They finished the lease and had a worthless 6.9 year old truck with 999,000 miles worth $10,000 and a final buy out payment of $15,000. Their company only accepts trucks newer than 7 years so it isn't worth buying.
4) The truck broke down due to insufficient maintaince and they abandoned the lease since it would cost more to fix than they have.
5) Recruiting propaganda is just lies anyway.

i was ad-libbing...i read one from dart i believe and says he paid off 2 previous trucks and was on his 3rd truck

So?
What does it mean, in your opinion?
Cause, it didn't say much to me... :roll:

You guys scared away poor George the original poster!!!

obviously it means it he was successful at paying the truck off!

Are you serious? Is that a measure of success;-"being able to pay the truck off"? :shock:
It most certainly a step, but what it has to do, with being successful? :roll:

i just assumed when companies say you will be successful that means you will make money while paying your truck off. i was sayin that the guy im talking about who has paid off 3 trucks in a lease purchase deal obviously has been successful because he has paid off 3 trucks..i dont think he would be just barely getting by if he wasnt successful...

All im saying is most drivers get on here and will bash anyone who thinks about a lease purchase...but not all companies are like prime and cr england when it comes to the whole lease purchase deal

Marcel there are always people who think they will be different and prove to us naysayers we are wrong.
I am a happy o/o with 28 years as an o/o.

Read my posts slowly.
You must have read them too fast if you still think its a workable deal.


If all a person wants to do is prove they can pay off a truck
It can definately be done as a lease purchase.


The rest of us will be raising a family, buying a house, furnishing the house, buy shrubs at Home Depot, owning a couple of cars, full package cable TV, and sending kids to college.


L/P has been the joke of the industry since I started in 78 when Midwest Emery was doing it.

paying off a truck doing a lease pruchase is what companies would call being successful.......... but my point is not all companies have lease purchase to where you cant make any money? Now i know the truck payments are higher per month than buying it on your own, but a chosen few on a few threads have made it seem like you will be making 2-3 hundred dollars per week after expenses and i dont think thats true. and unfortunately thats what they are telling all the newbs

ok this was a specific l/p deal i was talking about


lease a 03 peterbuilt 387

272 per week

06 cpm maintenance

3 years sale price 47k and some change

5k buyout(can be financed) truck have 300-400k miles

insurances are offered thru the company........ not i didnt think that was a bad deal

but i can understand everyone getting up in arms about a 575per week 01 freightliner century(red) hint hint 10cpm maintenance 10k buyout
truck has been leased 2-3 times b4 with a 10k buyout at then end and truck has 600k miles on it

There probably are some decent l/p deals and every 3 years you can try to find one.
Even if you have your own truck it may take a few companies to lease to in order to find a company you like.
When you l/p you have signed a contract and you are stuck with the company.
What if they land the coveted "dollar store account" you have no choice you must hump every piece of freight off that truck. every day The other o/o's have moved on. You are stuck.
In three years you will probably go through 4 or 5 dispatchers
Not everyone of them is capable of making you money.
It might take a few months to weed them out.
Don't assume 2500 3000 miles either when you "do the numbers"
They might run you 300 or 400 per day in order to cover their work.
Then what?

Just drive and get a paycheck. Let the suits deal with owning it and fixing it.

Marcel, before you sign the contract ask these questions. Will the Carrier require you to have all service and repairs done in their shop? If they do that's a red flag. Is there a penalty for putting too many miles on the truck? I saw a contract just the other day where a team operation was getting penalized 10 cents/mile for anything over 2600 miles/week.Will the Carrier guarantee you miles? This is VERY important!!! So many failures are do to the lack of miles.Remember the Carrier has three types of drivers. Company drivers who is going to get the most and best paying freight, the Owner Operator's who is going to get the next slice, because the Carrier is going have to keep these guys halfway happy, then theres the lease purchase guys. They don't care about them because they are LOCKED to the Carrier!!!! If they will not promise you any work, then you HAVE to be able to take the truck somewhere else. Which I doubt that will happen. The lease purchase contracts are NOT for the Owner Operator, it is for the CARRIER and the CARRIER only!!!

Anyone here wanna buy a $1500. Kirby vacuum ? :lol: :P

Big difference though when we started-You only Needed a Dollar in your Pocket for Lease Purchase :P

Marcel, I seem to recall someone who was in one of these fleece purchase deals who only had about $300/week after expenses. Someone else may remember the thread. In any case, all you really need to do is sit down with pen and paper and look at the numbers. They just don't add up.



You will still be paying out over $500/wk with this truck. There are other charges which are not listed. I spoke with one company who offered fleece purchase programs. I talked to the individual who did them for this company. I won't reveal the company, because I don't want to cause this person a problem with his job. As I recall, they offered a program with a weekly payment of about $250. He knew that I wasn't interested myself because I already owned my own equipment. He was very candid with me. I asked him the total cost with everything figured in. He told me about $800/wk. Now, this comes directly from an individual who handles this type of program. That is in line with other fleece purchase programs I have looked at over the years.

I would love to see a fair lease purchase program. Perhaps one reason these programs have such a high failure rate is due to them leasing a truck to any warm body that happens to walk through the door. I don't think you need any minimum level of experience to get into one of those deals.

I don't think anyone who has offered advice about these fleece purchase programs is being mean spirited or wants to see anyone fail. We know what it takes to be successful as an owner operator. Some of us have be at this for over 20 years and some over 30 years. I believe we have learned a few things during that time. One thing we have learned is how to make a profit and be successful as an owner operator. You can choose to either take the advice given or ignore it. We have nothing to gain by discouraging you from getting involved in this type of program. I have found that some people simply don't want to do what they really need to do in order to be a successful as an owner operator, or even a successful driver for that matter. One reason these programs are such a success is because drivers are unwilling to discipline themselves to save enough for a good down payment or pay cash, while they get their credit in good shape and learn this business. There are no real shortcuts to becoming successful. It takes hard work and discipline.

yeah yoopr
but thats when a dollar was worth a dollar.
wait a second
that's when a dollar bought a dollar.... no thats not it
oh I got it
that's when a dollar bought 3 quarts of Iron City Beer
speaking of beer......

For some reason I think I heard of Iron City Beer-It must have been regional and when in my rookie days I ran out your way :P
I started the same time as you-Winter of '78