get yourself a couple of lengths of sturdy chain, long enough to go through the rim and wrap around the tire. get 2 shackle bolts.

use these on the back outside drives when you get stuck in one of those docks that are lower at the back than the front, or on a frozen puddle in a parking lot when you're trying to get under a trailer. :o :D ;)

Wooow....vavega....I am impressed...never thought of, or heard of that!:bow:

Makes lots of sense...but I'm not sure if that'd help me in my current setup...I have singles on my drives with aluminum rims...wouldn't steel chains damage aluminum rims?

At parking lot speeds? Unlikely. If you were concerned, you could always put some rags between the chains and the rim.

TomB985 said:

And that would make sense. I was attempting to show that when ONE wheel loses traction, it is better to have MORE other wheels that don't. If I understand correctly, an "open carrier" would let one wheel slip and provide no extra traction (or forward thrust) to the other(s) (as seen in the youtube videos.)

All I know is that one day, on a very "wet" snowy road in Texas, while my diffs were unlocked, I heard an eery silence and looked in my right mirror to see the front of my trailer trying to pass me. Not a good situation considering there was another truck in that lane! I immediately let off the pedal to "change" the dynamics of the torque, made sure the wheels were no longer "spinning," and immediately locked my diffs. I regained traction AND my lane position, and the trailer fell in line.

Also, on the day that Wind refers to, I alternately locked and unlocked my diffs to see which gave me more traction. I decided that I had more control with them locked, most of the guys in the ditch did not HAVE this option, and I decided to stay with it. There was a considerable crown to the road, and lots of cracks and crevices. I assumed that the icy conditions were "relative" to the road surface, and I decided to make use of what traction was available.

You'll get used to it. I am always right... and I am psychic. Just ask the Rev! :lol2:

Braking is good... STEERING is essential. I don't "tap" the brakes. IF the road is icy, and braking is a problem, the service brakes will cause my drives to skid. (regardless of the valves, there is a delay between the tractor brakes and the trailer tandems.) Then 50k lbs of trailer will let me know in a hurry that I've made a mistake. By using the trolley brake, I can test the braking potential from the most rearward axle, while maintaining the ability to "drive away" from a skid with the tractor.

My "theory" is not unlike the use of a drag chute in drag racing and/or the space shuttle. You don't stop a 50k lb trailer by locking up the brakes/tires IN FRONT of it. You slow it down by holding it back from BEHIND it.

I didn't say I was "clueless" as to how a diff worked. But, thanks for trying. I believe I read on Wiki that there are 3 outputs. Maybe that is just for a double screw. At any rate, I believe I understand the concept, and I prefer to have my torque delivered to BOTH axles in slippery conditions.

Another time, I was on I-20 eastbound near Granger (where it is very hilly) and the entire interstate came to a halt because a few wiggle wagons with single screws couldn't get up the hill. Not sure that diff interlocks and two drive axles would have saved them.... but "I" had no problem getting traction with MY diffs locked.

Now, don't take this wrong, but I have a few questions. You seem to know alot about these things. I'm just curious as to whether you are an engineer, a mechanic, or just smart as hell (with lots of testosterone?) :lol:

Also.... I believe you are somewhat new here. That doesn't mean you are new to trucking. I admit that I am somewhat new to trucking. My question is.... are you talking theory? Or experience? Have you driven trucks up steep hills out west (or east) in slippery conditions? I am not trying to be condescending. If you HAVE such experience, AND seeing that you obviously know the theory, I would give MORE weight than I already DO to your position... and I admitted that I hated to disagree with Wind.

Like I said. I only know what has worked for ME. Bel drives a 1/4 cab on flat roads around Indy.... so, he can be ignored! :lol:

I have learned a few things from this thread. I have learned LOTS of things from my 3 years on CAD! I am always open to learning new things. But, that doesn't mean I accept anything without a "vetting" process that I like to call "friendly debate." :thumbsup:

An Obamaticket for two to COLLEGE so you can get edumacated! :lol2:

[Obviously, YOU don't know the answer. Big surprise.]

Now, an extra credit question for YOU. What is the temperature of the air coming out of my mouth (or anyone's.)???

Warning (although I shouldn't): Trick question.

Or you could save yourself alot of trouble and just put the rags/towels in front of your drives and use a higher gear. :roll3:

I am edumacated. You're just jealous.

There are far too many unanswered variables to effectively answer that question.

But in the "spirit" of the question:roll2:, the answer is:

It depends upon the internal body temperature, the opening size of the mouth, where you are measuring the temperature, and the force of the air being expelled.

Riiiight. Maybe out West where you have that "dry" ice that might work. Maybe.

I did NOT post that because I thought you were "clueless". I posted that because there are a great many people who will swear on their grandmother's grave that only ONE wheel gets any torque in an open diff. This isn't the case, and I was posting that to preempt another messy argument!;)

Not taken wrong at all...:)

I am not an engineer or a certified mechanic. I do have a decent background in physics, though. The laws of phyics apply to everything I've ever done, and will ALWAYS apply to anything I ever will do. I've been able to apply this to everything I do, which includes diagnosis and repair of various problems with cars, although I've never done any work on a truck, as every truck I drive doesn't belong to me...and the powers that be don't want me screwing with it!

When I don't understand something, I do as much research as I need to to get a firm understanding of it. Helps quite a bit to know both the theory behind something's mechanical operation, as well as the practical applications of it. Diagrams, drawings, and descriptions are great for the theory part, but it takes experience to understand the practial applications. That's why I'm HERE!

I have just over a year's driving experience OTR. I also drove quite a few miles in snow last winter, although not nearly as many as lots of drivers here. I try to take in anything I don't know and apply it, as well as "give back" from what I've learned. I'm pleased to say that I've had no preventable incidents YET:o, and I'm trying like hell to keep it like that!:boogey:

Rev.Vassago said:

Not likely (on both counts.)

Nope. Only one.

Absent a fever, we all are about 98.6

Not relevant.

I thought I stated "coming out of (one's) mouth." That should indicate the point of measurement. (Unless, like George Dubya Bush, you have TWO sides of your mouth to speak out of.) Sorry, just couldn't resist! :D

Nope. no measurable relevance.

Keep thinking. I'm sure the answer is right on the tip of your tongue!

Then your "answer" is clearly wrong.

:hellno::hellno::hellno::hellno:
This gurl werks really hard to NOT call a tow truck. :bow::bow::bow:

I didn't GIVE an answer. I posed a question. A question cannot BE wrong.

You GET no extra credit. More importantly, I have yet to hear an answer concerning why eastern snow is wetter than western snow. Whazza matter? Something not covered by google? I haven't checked, but I'm SURE it should be.

You posed a question to which you obviously have your answer already in mind. Since the correct answer takes the things I stated previously into consideration, and you claim those things are irrelevant, then your answer is clearly wrong.

Plus, I already did the test with my calibrated laser thermometer, and got several different answers, depending upon the various factors involved, all of which I already stated would impact the answer.

I already gave you an answer. If, for some reason, you'd like to hear it, I suggest you read it aloud, or have someone with better comprehension skills than yourself read it to you.:thumbsup:

Cool idea vavega! If I would have had that setup, I wouldn't have been sitting at a Kokomo gas station on New Year's eve waiting for a push for a couple of hours.:bow::bow:

Unfortunately TOM...Only on dry road surface where traction is about equal at both axles will an OPEN CARRIER supply nearly identical torque to both axle shafts...And on surfaces where traction isfar from equal you will be spinning the wheel with the least traction ...This is FACT ,and wh mostl off road use vehicles have either a locking type carrier or spool...


For an exmple of this bias just look at what happens when driver goes over bump making a turn at low speed and his wheels are crossed up one wheel firmy planted on the ground the other only lightly toughing...AND SPINNING while the tire with firm contact does nothing but sit still ...OPEN CARRIERS only have equal bias when traction is equal at at both wheels open carries allow bias on turns so wheels cn spin freely at different rates unlike a locked carrier that makes torques bias zero-none which ensures torque output to both axle shafts on sufaces other than DRY PAVEMENT ,but asa negative will not let tires turn different rates ,which causes bind and can result in slipping in corners and ...UNDERSTEER...

Espeially when a bag of kitty litter or some clorox would be much faster .

As anyone who has stayed at the Petro in Sturtevant, WI in the dead of winter knows, sometimes the conventional methods don't work. I've seen guys use entire bags of cat litter trying to get unstuck from uneven ice.

I carried chains , which would be easier to use than making a set at a dock, which woud require you to find chains...nuts , And bolts...to make , which will probably be an unlikely find ...But I own my own chains ,and carry atleast 2 sets year round...I keep them in the summer for soft soil stucks in dirt drop yards .

Good for you. That has absolutely nothing to do with cat litter or Clorox.

And neither does an immaginary situation at a truck stop where a small patch of ice would stick a truck that had a big bag of kitty litter and a bottle of clorox...I also carry a 50lb bag of ice melt...And I think the "making" a make shift tire chain a great idea if you're maybe a flatbedder who has a small scrap yard of parts sitting around , but just carrying around a pair of cheap chains is much more viable ,and better advice .

When did they move North Carolina out West? :confused:

Isn't that what she said???

Now, the real question is...do you EVER make a post without trying to put someone down? Hell, she said the same thing you are...and you first dismiss it as unneccessary...only to admit you DO THE SAME THING. And when you admit that, you attack AGAIN...wrongfully asserting that it was intended to FIND a chain when you get stuck, and not carry one to begin with.

Why don't you just go ELSEWHERE? You don't seem to be adding anything to the conversation here...You seem to be trying to be another BigDiesel...the difference is HE KNOWS WHAT HE'S TALKING ABOUT!:pissedoff:

Well N.C. is now officaly in the Western half of the U.S. because the Rev has spoken...Which will make easier for Werner, Swift, And other large carrier drivers to finally get that load going out west when they get tired of running the East coast for weeks .

You've clearly never been at the Petro in Sturtevant, WI in the dead of winter. There's no such thing as "a small patch of ice" there. You've also clearly never been on uneven ice, where the water froze in the process of flowing.

I did not say the same thing she said...Is someone reading this too you ?

North Carolina is on the East coast. The hot air coming out of his mouth travels clear around the Earth, picking up moisture along the way.*:clap:








*in reality, I thought golfhobo was out on the West coast. I never bothered, nor did I ever care, where he actually lived.:thumbsup:

Anyone who has been stuck on ice would also know how difficult it can be to get a full set of chains around a tire once you are already stuck. The solution presented (which you shot down) would work where a conventional set of chains wouldn't.

Damn , that's cold ...

Never had a problem chaining a stuck tire on ice...I simply took my sledge hammer and beat the chain under the tire so it grabs when tire moves... In the words of Blade- Some mother Fu@33rs are always trying to ice skate up hill ...LOL

I know where NC is, that's why I was confused by your statement. :lol2:


So you really aren't "all knowing"? FYI: "Location" is listed on every post. ;)

She's referring to a pit dock. Very difficult to get out of but hardly worth a full set of chains. We come to exchange information and everyone turns into a smartazz.

Not everyone...just a select few!

I am "all knowing", I'm just not "all caring".:thumbsup:

If you've ever noticed, when you get stuck with a 4WD, you REALLY get stuck. That DOES apply to a truck as well. If you lock in the diff, when you spin-out, you REALLY SPIN-OUT. Locking them in DOES NOT GIVE YOU BETTER TRACTION. It does not change anything with relation to your contact to the road surface. It changes the way torque is applied to the wheels. It only insures that when wheels spin, more than one will spin. And, the more wheels you have spinning, the more likely you are to lose control.

Simply that. A 4-wheeler is not a combination vehicle. When a 4-wheeler breaks traction, the effect and result is generally not as dramatic as an 18-wheeler.


You might want to check with your mechanic about locking in the diffs and running a lot of miles that way. From the OK line to Amarillo isn't a short distance. Even brand new tires have a variation in diameter, and by locking in the diffs and running that distance, with a loaded trailer, you run a risk of excessive wear and even damage to the diffs. This is the reason for the "INTER-AXLE DIFFERENTIAL" to begin with. It allows each set of drives to turn at the rate it requires in order to maintain the given speed. Without this, the differentials in each axle can work against themselves and cause damage.

I've never looked into the "SMITH SYSTEM", but now, I plan to. I can envission a situation where jigging the wheel would put sideways momentum on the front of the truck, but the correction could happen over ice, and you would not be able to correct. Some 12,000 pounds going to the right, then refusing to go back to the left because you've lost the traction to be able to overcome the momentum to the right.

Most of the rigs I've seen jackknifed have gone out of control with the nose pointing toward the center of the road. (On icy roads. On dry roads, I haven't figured that one out yet.) But, every now and then, I see one that went the other way, and I have to wonder if they "jigged" the wheel.



And, the moisture content of the snow is determined by the temperature. Not just at the surface where you drive, but in the upper atmosphere as well. Western States generally put you up at a higher elevation which normally means colder air, and dryer snow. But, it's not a hard and fast rule. I've run through temps of 22 degrees F in WY with "WET WATER" coming down from the sky. When I got to MN, I had nearly 6,000 pounds of ice all over the rig. I believe it's called an INVERSION LAYER".

It should also be mentioned that even "dry" snow, when it's drifting across a salted road, is likely to be very slick because of the water content where the salt is doing some, but not enough melting. More than one driver has lost control in these patches.

And, Veil Pass as well.

I don't think anyone suggested a full set of chains ...But usining 1 real chain would be for most easier than piecing together a chain ,as most don't have these items around to make a chain.

Most people don't have a "real chain" either, so they go out and buy one before they need it.:roll2:

Just remember the "5 P's".....proper planning prevents poor performance.

While this is limited to the outside drives, it is not limited to the back axle. It can also be done for the front drive axle as well. A few lengths of light chain (heavier than dog chain) about 3 feet long, and the screw together link found at most hardware stores work great. And, there are at least two places on the rims where you can put them. With aluminum rims, even more. But, use it to get unstuck, then remove them. Do not try running with them like normal chains. Prolonged use will put marks into the rims.

I do remember another bit of advice that saved me one morning a couple of years ago. A driver told me that if I was stuck, try going to High Range and that may help.

Sure enough, I got stuck pulling out of a City of Indianapolis (read police department) fueling station. I tried everything and was about ready to give up and then remembered his advice. I put her in 6th, worked the clutch out and Bingo! I was on my way home. I've thanked that guy several times for that timely advice.

X2

I've done that several times. It's amazing what the little extra bit of torque will do. Just make sure you are giving it enough throttle to keep from stalling out.