How do you shift without using the clutch?
 

I've been told that when you shift without the clutch, you have to "listen" to the engine to tell when to put it into the next gear. What do you 'listen' for?

(They say in the low boy I might be driving, you really don't have time to double-clutch, because if you don't hurry up and shift, it will slow down so that you're either stopped or going to slow to shift into the next gear)

Re: How do you shift without using the clutch?
 

I "listen" for "Hey you, you gonna shift, or what?""

The "listen" that they are referring to is the RPM's of the engine.

Re: How do you shift without using the clutch?
 

LOL Must be a new feature on the 07 models. :P

Re: How do you shift without using the clutch?
 

if you hear a god awful grinding noise stop trying to put it in gear!

Douglas, you kind of want the engine to go uuuudn....uuuuuuudn......uuuuuuuuuudn.....uuuuuuuu uuudn....uuuuuuuuuuuudn...and so forth.

That help? :lol:

Like Rev. said, you have to listen to the sound of the engine, to estimate when the RPM's are correct for the gear you are shifting into.

Bottom line: Engine RPM's must match the road speed of the gear you're shifting into.

In other words the engine has to be at the RPM that it would be at if you were already in that gear.

If it isnt at the right RPM, it will not go in gear.

Never try to "jam" the stick in gear if you make a mistake!

Adjust your engine RPM and try it again, it's really very simple, but it's kinda like a 6th sense that you have to develop.

you listen for the same sounds or use the same rpm range as you would when double clutching. For instance if the particular truck you'll be driving likes to be double clutched at 1500rpm then it will like to float at that rpm as well.

My personal preference is if I need a quick shift with low risk of missing the gear I'll double clutch. If I'm tooling around town or on the big flat roads I'll float.

good luck

I don't think you have to "listen" to anything to drive either way. You can shift with the tach, pull it out at such and such, and put it in at such and such (with or without the clutch.) You can. I've done that. I can't do it anymore though. I can't double clutch anymore either. I try to do that, and I look like a dumba$$ who can't drive a truck. I do listen, mind you, but that's because I can't shift with a tach anymore, not because I use the clutch.

Shifting without the clutch isn't as hard as it sounds. The trick is to pre-load the stick before you break torque by letting up on the fuel. You're approaching the top RPM for the gear you're in, call it 1200. At the point where you would clutch it out, instead, you pre-load the stick just a little, and when you let up on the juice, it will come right out of gear in the split second of "zero gravity" while the gears are neither being driven by the engine nor the drivetrain. When you're in neutral, you wait for the RPMs to come down to the point where you would clutch it back in, but instead, you just slide it smoothly into the hole, again, at that split second of "zero gravity."

If you miss it, you'll grind the hell out of the gears, which is why you don't just JAM the stick as hard as you can. It's a feel thing, and has a lot to do with timing (and the timing is the hardest thing about switching to a different truck, or changing from loaded to empty to bobtail.) If you miss, you feel a little gear contact (or a horrible grinding if you jammed the stick, idiot!), so you release the pressure, and then tweak the engine back up a trifle to get another "zero gravity" window in which to put the stick in the hole.

If you miss twice, just use the clutch to get back in, but pay attention to your road speed. If you were going from 9th to 10th and you screwed around too long getting into 10th, you might have to fall back into 9th and try again, or vice versa downshifting. (Be careful not to get stuck in Georgia overdrive going down a hill! Best to play with this new trick on easy hills or flat ground.)

This is all a lot harder to explain with words than it is to do. You might get somebody to help you hands on. Then all you have to do is practice a little, and you'll be shifting like a lazy bastard in no time, and can leave your left foot on the dash board like a real supertrucker.

I didn't realize you shift it using the RPMs just like you would if you were double-clutching. A co-worker had only told me just to listen to the motor, and nothing else.
Maybe I'll be able to drive that bad boy...

he probably listens to tell when the engine is tacking out. when i fist started floating I would listen to the turbo and when it leveled out I would level out the fuel (stop pushing and maintain the rpm steady) then pull on the stick and it just floats out of gear. let up the fuel (not all the way cause I run with the jakes on) and let the rpms drop just like when clutching then stick it in gear and resume pressing fuel down. with a little practice it will become one smooth fluid motion. after a while you stop listening and just start to feel when you are at the top range of that gear. couple things to remember. you must make sure that the gears are properly meshed before you apply fuel again or they will slip apart under the load and could damage the gears (and makes one hell of a racket) floating down works the same way but requires a little more practice. most of floating is all about fuel peddle control being able to bump the rpms and let them fall the desired amount each time.

You're a truck driver aintcha? Don't be a wuss. If I can drive a @#%@# Super 10, you can drive that truck.

If you ARE strong enough to jam it into gear, kiss a u-joint good-bye or even a tranny. I lost a u-joint in a pickup I used to have after it would not go into gear. Turns out the clutch was the problem, but I got'er into 3rd gear. U-joint didn't agree with that move and the next thing I hear was a loud pop and the driveshaft bouncing off the floorboard.

I've found a way to shift that is a cross of floating gears and double clutching. I use the clutch but only need to push it in once. Now and then I miss it and have to double but it's rare. New guy tried my truck and could not shift without double clutching. He had watched me and was trying to do it the same way.

Once you get used to floating gears, you will forget how to use the clutch to shift...I tried to double clutch a few weeks ago and thought I was gonna tear the trans out of the truck....when back to floating very quick....once you get it down, you wont ever have to think about when to shift, you will just know when...

Rick

I learned to drive from a guy who only floated gears. I got use to that, but when I learned to double clutch...I became a better driver...in my opinion. With RPM shifting...you BETTER know your "go-to" gears.

Now with your heavy load ...low speeds...I still would use the clutch.
I disagree with what you were told. In lower gears...I shift at lower RPM's and I don't power up much. In other words...let the tranny do the work.
My double-clutch is as fast as a shift gets...so I don't agree with this slower shift stuff. :P
If you ARE GOOD at floating...sure...no problem. I slip gears that way a lot as well...but not under every circumstance.
The higher you run your RPM's before you shift up or down...the harder it is to find that sweet spot. You can get rather routine with it...but by not being in any big hurry...your rig will respond nicer.

I still float gears...just for something to do.
same deal in floating...don't be in a hurry. If you are in a hurry, or need to use more power...and/or downshifting under load...use that clutch.

I recommend using the clutch in all circumstances, and floating only when your bunion is hurting too much. :lol: ...or when you are resting your legs up on the dash...and laying back with your belt unbuckled. :lol: :lol: :lol: snif...burp. :?

Once you get used to shifting, you will instinctively know when the rpm's are right for shifting. Initially, you will probably want to check the tachometer. It just takes practice. NEVER force it into gear. If it doesn't go into gear easily, you may want to increase or decrease your rpm's until it does.

Or use the clutch? :lol:

Well, you could use the clutch, Fozzy. But where's the fun in doing that? :wink:

Yeah, A person might scuff their chrome tipped faux ostrich boots or something :shock:

I shift with the clutch, without, which ever works the best.
When I don't use the clutch, I shift by the sound of the motor. Rarely look at the tach. Something that just takes experience.

Hauling Tanker:
When it gets interesting is when the wave comes to the front of the tanker and that changes my shifts. Takes timing then, shift in between the waves. :shock: When there is 3/4 a load, higher the rpm's accelerating, bigger the wave. LOL

I guess I'm a truckdriver, but I have ABSOLUTELY NO experience other than tech. school. In fact the last time I was even in a tractor-trailer was when I tested. :?

In Sliding gears, Does take experence to when to do it. RPM, SOunds and Feel.

And your still going to be doing more long term (or even sometimes instant catastrophic) damage to the drive train without using the clutch

Only if you grinding them by trying to force it. When I shifting it took only 2 fingers. easy and simple. If I so happen to miss, over rev, then Clutch time.

Not if it's done smoothly and correctly.

It's all about driver technique, or lack thereof.

What you say is true if the driver is missing shifts and jamming it in gear, but if if done smoothly it does no harm, and actually saves wear on the clutch because there is always a slight amount of slippage at the point of clutch disengagement & re engagement.

Mabye it's an old school thing. But I think if you can't drive without the clutch your not a real truck driver. :lol:

That's a big if, I as yet have never met a driver who can make every shift correctly 100% of the time.. Every duffed shift sends one heck of a shock down the whole length of the drive line..

I personally don't think anyone can tell you how to do it. You just have to keep at it and it will click. Took me about 4 months before I realized I was doing it without thinking.

I think also there are many techniques you can use. One that I use when not in a hurry is to just put gentle pressure on the next gear and when the time is right, it just slips in.

Here's how I do it.

Dont hear any crashing or shocks to the driveline.

Also illustrates what I said in an earlier post about braking and downshifting simultaneously when coming to a stop.

(if only my camera person hadn't turned the camera sideways halfway thru the vid it would be easier to watch)

Click on the pic to watch and listen.

http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j1...Picture094.jpg

That's the Point. To me it was easier to slide than it was to double clutch. I shifted smoother in sliding thew gears than I was double clutching so there was less damages done to the drives, clutch and Trans.

uhm, when i shift without the clutch, i simply do not depress the clutch. like do not even raise my foot. when i use the clutch i depress the clutch thus causing me to lift my foot.

To me the point is that I have to row through 18 shifts (sometimes less) up and down hills, day in and day out. I really can't imagine douple clutching all the shifts I have to do in a day. But that's me. :P

why do the schools teach you to double clutch if nobody really ever does it? Just wonderin'.

It's a requirement to pass the CDL test.

after a while you wont even want to use your clutch i very seldom do any more unless i have to and in your normal stops and starts

It was mandatory when I went to swift training 10 yrs ago, because they said not using your clutch tears up their trucks. At swift, i can see that...lol

You should learn how to double clutch so you know how to.
The manufacturers of the transmissions tell us it is better for the gears.
Here in Canada and in the States, it is a requirement for your road test.
And most companies want to see you double clutch when they road test you for a job, (same in Canada).

Because most of the guys teaching, do not know how to drive without the clutch. When I took my road test 20 years ago, the instructor said, you don't have to use the clutch as long as you do not grind the gears. If you grind them I will fail you.

Ok, i-c; I don't have a clue how to shift (only a car or pick-up, but not good @ that either! LOL ), so had ta ask :wink:

Funny, would have pictured you as being the double clutch kind of guy. Not a bad thing, just would have thought.

Floating/sliding whatever you call it, does take some practice, you'll grind less and less and one day you'll notice you haven't ground the gears all day.