Unions - 15 yrs ago did truck drivers have protection?
 

I'm just starting to do some research here, thanks to seeing an old DVD of Sally Field in the 1979 film NORMA RAE, about union representation of textile workers.

I vaguely remembered that the Teamsters used to represent truck drivers, before Jimmy Hoffa visited the river.

A decent hourly wage, supervised work conditions -- If those were ever real, how were they lost? Can we get them back again?

Everybody on this board can count the bodies.

Yes, I'm a rookie, and duh don't know nuttin.

But lots of us out here are training to build a future. Are the cards stacked against us? Read THIS article:

http://www.personal-injury-michie-ha...accidents1.cfm

no,5% are union.
hoffa jr said we are not in the union so we are the enemy.
most union companies are out of business since reagan deregulated trucking and the mega carriers emerged.
i think we need unions but they need to be more interested in protecting jobs. reagan eliminated a whole myriad of red tape,circuitous routing,interlining,icc,and opened alot of oppurtunities for owner operators and people like moyes and werner

Great link. I have found that a lot of these drivers, though not necessarily on this board, are from the South and have an innate dislike for unions. I have looked into and tried hard to understand why but never get a concrete answer.

I looked into Allied Auto Hauling, as they came to the school to recruit. I found out they were going to bankruptcy. The Union came out against the wage cut or freeze that the company was looking for; they broke it down how the CEO who was getting millions wasn't going to be loosing. I don't remember excactly what they wrote but it looked valid to me. I printed it out and took it to one of the instructors at school who was always bashing unions and asked him to clarify why unions are so bad when from the article it seems like thank God for unions. I wasn't looking for a fight with the guy either, I truly just wanted to understand why unions get such a bad rap. He couldn't answer me.

I really don't like unions, I have held both union and non-union positions.

Reason against unions.
*Everyone makes the same no matter how well or how poorly a person performs.
*Unions tend to protect the poor performers the most, which leads everyone to performer less.
*Everyone must be represented, union reps have the same obligations as defence lawyers
*No matter how hard the unions try the executive level still ends up making 500+ times the lowest paid person
*Leads to higher cost of goods and services

Reasons for unions.
*Union workers tend to be higher paid
*Better beneifts
*Better vaction time

I understand the need for unions, but I just don't think that another Beaurcratic organization is in the best interest of all of us.

I will use the auto industry, because that is what I know best. After all the smoke clears from all of these cut backs, the companies will still not be that much better off. They will only have one place left to look at why they aren't making money. The executive levels. They will not have enough people left to blame it on the lower levels.

The Japanese companies are successful, because the execs only make 10 times more than the lowest paid employee on average. US auto execs are making around 530 times more. Japanese companies cut everyone's wages during bad times, not just the bottom tier of the company. They are much more equatable than US companies.

What bothers me the most is that the executives are the least loyal. Make one wrong move with them and they quit moving on to the next better offer. The lower level employees are with the company far longer and are far more loyal. I don't just mean the union or blue collar people either. Both lower level Blue and White collar people are much more loyal and tend to hold the companies interest in mind more than the execs. This is just the opposite of what the execs lead us to believe.

Just my .02 worth.

Admittedly unions have ruined some industries and companies with their greed but our industry needs major reforms and improvements in the areas of driver compensation and overall treatment. Maybe an organized union is the answer. Something needs to be done. But nothing will happen and as more drivers decide its no longer worth it companies will push for more immigration to obtain cheap labor. Change will only come when they cant get enough drivers and the companies make it worth our time. Companies will not change until their backs are up against the wall and profits disappear.[/i][/b]

Unions used to be more widespread, but have steadily declined with increased influence big business gained in Govt. Since Reagan began, every republican prez. has helped big business make it harder to form unions.

One thing is for sure, we are being treated lower than dogs sometimes, not allowed to idle to stay comfy unless theres a dog or cat in the cab??? Just an example, but it shows something. This notion that Unions ruined this or that is just PR by big business which likes to shut down and start fresh without unions. Blaming the union for the demise of the company is swatting 2 flies at once for them- no-ones angry at them and everyones angry at the union.

I worked as a teamster for years and there were some good points of the union but overall the unions protect the lazy and reward them for doing a below average job while the guy busting his ass makes the same. With a union it is very hard for a company to fire these deadbeats and everybodies production goes down because the incentive to work hard is not there.The trucking industry has a lot of problems, which will never be fixed until drivers say no to low wages etc. We don't need to pay union dues to do this.

NBL nailed the situation. Until every TruckDriver is willing to say "NO" to cheap wages, things will not change in regards to driver conditions.

Every time a driver spends 6 hours loading a truck and letting the shipper and carrier get away with not paying an hourly wage to the driver ...every time a driver hand unloads a trailer for less than what a warehouse employee makes per hour, every time a driver accepts a condition, "Because that is the way it has always been done", nothing will change.

If tomorrow, every driver that arrives at a warehouse for an "On-time" appointment, logs the time at the warehouse as "on-duty, not driving", and refused to leave the facility because they were there 8 hours and legally ran out of hours after having been at the facility 4 hours, maybe..just maybe, someone would take notice...but that isn't going to happen.

Tomorrow morning, thousands of truck drivers, whom will already be tired when they arrive at their pick-up or drop points, are going to log all but 30 minutes at that facility, as Off duty or Sleeper berth, because once the trailer is either loaded or unloaded, they are going to need to move on to the next point....so they can do the entire cycle all over again...and they are going to do most of the work for free...because that is how it is done.

Well said, driver. I couldn't agree more. Unfortunately, things will never change in that biz which is exactly why I'm not in it any more.

The only protection we need is from ourselves

unions are a good deal if you are young . in 25 years you will have a pension. some teamster unions are better than others do your home work. you get all the crap runs in crap areas when you first start but as you get seniority you get to pick the better runs . it takes a few years but time goes by fast. i was a teamster for 25 years retired at 44 years old. still have to work but now only part time. i work for a non union company and they treat there drivers very good . but there retirement package is no bargin so you need to look in to that. and they pay by the run or mile as were teamsters pay by the hour + ot. the more reliable you are the better of you will be in a union or non union job in the end .

Keep your nose out of other people's business.

Again, be like America pre WWII and do your job to the best of your ability. It isn't your place to judge anyone's performance. You can always haze the slackers, right? :roll: Plus, how would another person's performance affect yours? That sounds very odd to me. I don't base my level of work on what my coworkers do.

Not quite sure what you're saying. Without defense lawyers, there is no right to trial. Straight to jail with you. Same for union reps. Straight to the papers looking for a new job for you!

Same in non-union companies.

Prices for goods have steadily increased yet union membership has dropped every year for quite a while. Please clarify your position.

Yes and no. I worked for a non-union construction company hauling gravel and made within 5% of the local union shop.

See above.

Maybe. My dad is in the plumbers union and now gets 4 weeks a year after 15 years on the job. My friend at the Post Office gets 5 weeks after 6 years.

American companies will NEVER adopt Japanese business models. NEVER. And it's very sad to me. There is far too much divide between the rich and the not so rich. Even doctors and other similar careers (who do really well for themselves in America) have incomes that cannot compare to company CEOs. It's ridiculous. Firefighters and LEOs for example should be paid at least as much as doctors. It's appalling.

[quote="ColinThere is far too much divide between the rich and the not so rich. Firefighters and LEOs for example should be paid at least as much as doctors. It's appalling.[/quote]

Colin - I know you're an educated guy, but you must have missed out on many economics classes.

Every private sector job in a free market economy like ours is paid EXACTLY what it is worth.

The pay level for every job is at the point where demand for the work meets the supply of acceptable labor to do that work.

The only exception I'm aware of is the dock workers who have an absolute monopoly (enforced by thuggish & illegal intimidation & violence) on US ports. The pricetag for those 6-figure forklift drivers is an embedded cost on to the products that we receive from oversees.

BTW - If you think any corporation is making too much, you need to purchase some stock shares and partake of the "massive profits" :lol: that you presume are flooding in. The NYSE doesn't exclude ANYONE, even truck drivers! :P

I think that the "free market economy" is no longer. There is too much corporate welfare and too many oligolpolies to say that we are in a free market. Merger after merger is approved by the FTC. I fully understand that market drives prices/wages and I also think it is complete bee ess. What does Pepsi own besides a soft drink manufacturer? How many car brands does Ford own? Why is that okay for one company to be in control of the same product? Last year, hard drive manufacturers Seagate and Maxtor merged, leaving us with one less company to choose from. This happens over and over.

Back in 1990, I paid $250 for a Sony 5 disc cd changer. No optical outputs, but a simple remote. Today I can buy a new Sony 5 disc changer with optical output that plays cd-r/rw (extra features, those are) for $99. Imported electronics are cheaper than ever despite thug forklift drivers handling the containers. I pooh pooh on your higher prices comment.

If you're referring to cars, that's different. Every model year, cars have more and more technology in them than the previous year. More economical engines, better parts, safety features, etc. It makes sense that more features would cost more the next model year.

I wouldn't exactly say every private sector job is paid exactly what it's worth. If that were the case they wouldn't have minimum wage laws. They wouldn't have overtime laws either nor many other labor laws. We do not have a true free market economy.

Wow Mi-Rookie, that's a rare opinion in these parts up here,everyone is entitled to there opinion, ,without a union I would not enjoy the wages, lifestyle, benefits, pension and security of my company driver job.

I do a run that pay x hours and I can do the run as quick as I want as long as I make my window. A lazy, overpaid, union worker can take 4 hours longer everyday if he wants, hit every stop along the way. We still make the same amount for the run to the penny. How is that person somehow belittling my hard work. He can do his run the way he wants and I can do mine the way I want. His effort has no effect on mine.

If the same guy misses windows, he is fired, period, happens all the time. (without good reason, and after a few warnings)

Manufacturing companies that hire transportation companies do not care if their employees are union or not and their bid selection does not have different criteria for either type of company. They bid per mile, if my unionized company wins the bid we bid cheaper than another company, period.

Difference is I am paid well and my company simply makes less overall profit by sharing with the driver, as opposed to a company that pays it's people peanuts and bids within pennies per mile on the same lanes as my company.

All that is great I guess, but apart from the wages, my personal favorite is I bid on my run by seniority. Doesn't matter the guy below me brings management. Try the fruit baskets, chocolate trays, and foot massages, whatever, they do the job I do not want. And I do the job the guys above me didn't want. Refreshingly simple, I love it.

I don't think you'll ever see unions in a trucking company again. You need the signatures of at least a certain percentage of the drivers before you can form a union. If you did succeed, drivers wages would probably go up and hours of driving would go down. Then your customers would go to another trucking company for a cheaper rate and that would be the end of your union company. Not like the old days when there was only a hand full of different types of businesses that you could mobilize. Much different today.

My guess is that in my lifetime unions will be gone for good.

USA Walmart Economy
 

Mythology is mythology, and it's often taught as Economics in university.

I agree with the driver who wrote, "We don't have a free market economy." That is one of those knee-jerk phrases designed to get a knee-jerk reaction.

They also say this is a "free" country. But I won't go there!

About Walmart, as I see it, they sell SOME goods cheaply, SOME goods at the same price as the competition, and SOME goods higher than we realize.

The goods they sell at a real discount SOMETIMES they get from American manufacturers on a special deal where they don't actually pay the manufacturer until months later, so Walmart can leverage their own costs. The manufacturer is so happy to get nationwide distribution, he bends over backwards to make Walmart happy.

That's one scenario.

Other goods that Walmart sells are imported from China, and they may be assembled by workers in prison, or workers in work camps, who are housed in barracks (i.e. multi-level boxes just big enough to sleep in). Those workers have no expenses and no salaries to speak of. It's a form of modern slavery.

Restoring unions is ONE FACET of a whole new approach to life in America, and thoughtful people need to EXIT THE TWO MAJOR PARTIES in droves.

the japenese government backs their auto companies financially as well as other countries we compete against.the japanese companies in the us are not organised by the uaw, i believe i heard that on the news.the japanese people like american stuff but their government will not trade fairly.
union membership will continue to decline unless they become more interested in keeping jobs and competition
having seen how the regular people live and work in asia i really wonder how low our standards will go.

I laughed when the teamsters threatened UPS a few years back and UPS's competitors used that as leverage to win over busniness. back in the 90's, UPS's strike put a major halt on parcel delivery nationally. Although they did not strike a few years ago, many customers went to fedEx and fedex boomed! UPS worked hard to regain customers, but many did not return. How is that good for business?

Unions do protect worker rights, but they also protect lazy workers, as i often butted heads with union stewards that saved employess I desperately tried to fire for not showing up and blatantly ignoring company policy.

I think unions had their time, but we're no longer working 16hrs a day for peanuts in workplaces filled with smoke and no lights. Their standards have improved work conditions ever since the industrial revolution, but i think they're fading out in some industries.