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Ensure that fuel tickets match logs
A local company was recently audited by DOT. One of the main areas they looked at were the time stamps on the fuel tickets. Seems drivers watches must have been a bit off, the time stamp on the fuel ticket was say 8:15 am, in El Paso. The Log book showed that they did indeed fill up in El Paso but that was at 3 PM.
Result, $1100 fine. Log Falsification ONE driver, 19 violations! Wonder if he still works there? |
It is not only fuel reciepts/reports you have to worry about, but freight bills, toll reciepts, repair reciepts, etc. Well lets just say anything with a date and/or time record on it.....and this includes your CAT scale tickets.
If you do all of that correctly then all you have to worry about is log auditors who can not tell time and get easily confused about time zones. :roll: :roll: |
This shows that the company was not auditing their logs. Its like scaling a load. You can scale at the truckstop for $8.50, DOT will scale it for over $100 depending on how much overweight you are. My point is the carrier could have educated this driver and saved someone over $2000. I have survived a few DOT audits with no fines (knock on wood), but it didnt happen by magic. It happened by crossing all t's and dotting all i's. They dont expect for you to be perfect, but you better be close.
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I realize that I have only been driving a bit over a year now, but I have fueled at Petros, Love's, T/A's, Pilots and most other major and some independant Truckstops and not ONE of those tickets has a time stamp on it! (DATES, yes!)
I also scale out at CAT locations whenever possible.... and not ONE of THOSE tickets has a time stamp on it! MOST receivers never timestamp my BOL's. However, MANY shippers (who use computers) DO! Sometimes, I have to wonder if SOME of y'all who are giving out this information, are ACTUALLY driving trucks for a living! :shock: :roll: |
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I do not remember if Interstate and/or Flying J scales time stamp their scale tickets or not, but I promise you CAT does. Quote:
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Good to hear from you!! I don't know if something has changed since I came off the road, or if perhaps your company had a different arrangement with the different truck-stop chains than the company that I drove for had. When I drove OTR a few years back, our fuel tickets were time stamped, and that information could also be traced via Com-Data cards. Now, we had an extremely limited fuel network; about the only places we could fuel were Pilots, (and not even all of them were in our network!!), some Luv's, and a few independent truck stops. All of my fuel tickets did have time/dates on them. If time was an issue, I would scale out at The Flyin' Hook, because their scale tickets did not have a time stamped on them. Hope all's going well for you, have a terrific 2007!! Peace, Useless |
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The bottom copy is not really unreadable. If you take one of those "trick" reading lenses like you see on some cereal boxes for kids it can still be read.
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I asked my log lady about that and she said the only thing that needs to match up is fuel stops. And only within 30 minutes. That's a bit restrictive, but at least my tolls and such don't have to match up, otherwise I'd be screwed.
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Oh yeah, BTW. New regs require carriers to keep and maintain these type of reciepts/reports for a specific amount of time now. Those went into effect about a year ago I think.
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Perhaps, we should point out the difference between a roadside "inspection" of documentation, and a company "audit." My company assures me that THEY know how to avoid a confrontation on an "audit." The inspector who punches data from my logbook and receipts into his computer, ONLY gets a "timeline" to see if I've logged things in the proper timeframe to avoid a speeding ticket. Besides.... unless you are saying you made this trip YESTERDAY, it is EASY to make you logbook conform to times and places.... the trick is to not get there TOO early, or AFTER your 14 hours. :wink: |
The larger truckstops don't have a time on the reciept for this reason. If I have to get fuel somewhere with a time on the reciept, I "modify" it.
8) |
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Big difference between a "raodside" check and a company audit.
It is easy to get by on a roadside log check. What can come back and really bite you and your company in the wallet is the audits. Depending on how much digging the inspectors want to do they can pull everything from fuel reports to payroll records. |
Why should timestamps be an issue? If you're logging it as you're doing it like you're supposed to, then what's the problem? Unless you AREN'T logging it as you're doing it (i.e. "cooking" or "fudging" the book so you can run more miles) in which case you're breaking the law.
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My fuel tickets DID have a time stamped on them.
Usually, I was able to fuel up right before I shut down; that way, I could "re-think my logbook perspectives" by starting from fuel time & PTI, then working it backwards. It always worked well for me. 8) |
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Look at it THIS way: DOT doesn't want me to be driving after 14 hours on duty. Let's say, within that 14 hour window, I can drive the maximum miles allowable, by speed limits, attainable within the 11 hours allowed to be driving. But, traffic slows me down, or I stop for a break or three. Or I sit (and nap) at a shipper for 3 hours waiting on someone to pick my lettuce! Point is... sometimes I get there too early. Other times, I might be OVER 11 hours driving, but UNDER 14 hours on duty. I've HAD several breaks. I'm NOT breaking the "spirit" of the law. Or I scaled at the wrong time, or passed thru a tollbooth too early.... I've slept for AT LEAST 10 hours before starting my day. Sometimes, I have to leave one place early in the morning to be "in position" for a load later in the day. I get LOTS of time off while waiting, but not a full 8 hour "sleeper berth" break. Then, I get the dispatch to go get my load. I waste 4 hours waiting to get loaded. Then, my BOL and/or scale ticket says I was there at a certain time. But, I need to lay down some miles. If you're at home, and get up at 8 a.m., and only get 4 hours of work in for the day, do you want someone telling you that you have to "go to bed" at 10 p.m. that night??? Are you still a CHILD??? I haven't had a 10 p.m curfew since I was 8 years old! If you want MY "take" on it.... here it is: We should be allowed to drive 11 hours PER 24 hour day, period! As a "team driver" I can NOW maximize my hours to drive nearly 14 hours a day! Just give me 11 (or 12) hours of driving time in 24 hours, and let ME decide when to take a nap, and for how long, and where! Just let me GET my 11 hours worth of miles! By forcing me to try to GET my 11 hours driving, within a 14 hour window, after wasting 6 hours at shippers doing NOTHING, you make me drive FASTER, LONGER without breaks, and "POSSIBLY" beyond my 14 hour window and "fudge" my logs! I totally comprehend the DESIRED regulation for an 8 hour continuous sleep every 24 hours.... and THAT is what the regs are aimed at. I am NOT in favor of the "old" 5 and 5 system! But, I RESENT being "timed" at every fuel stop or scale or weigh station along the way towards getting my 600-700 miles per day! Some days, I might not GET that many! FINE! "I" know when I'm sleepy and need to "restart." I'm all FOR keeping truckers from running 18 hours a day with no sleep! But, there has GOT to be a better way of doing it! And.... if you read the final ruling on the fmcsa website, you'll see that I am NOT the only one who feels this way! Hobo |
Re: Ensure that fuel tickets match logs
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Re: Ensure that fuel tickets match logs
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With a "decoder ring?" :roll: Maybe, we haven't heard the whole story here, but an $1100 fine to a trucking company is PEANUTS compared to the thousands or millions they can earn throughout the year by having their drivers "push envelopes." I don't know MUCH about "audits." But, if this audit resulted in ONLY $1100 fine to the company, then it is nothing more than a "cost of doing business." If the major "carrirers" were constantly being audited and forced to comply with regs, there would be about 1/3rd of the freight being moved in this country every year. |
this recently happened at my company. several violations were found. One driver was similair to this, they found log violations that warranted something like a $1500 fine. This retard even logged 1000 miles in 11 hours one day. our trucks are governed at 65-70 hahaha
anyway, dot audited them. For the very reason I'm sure, my company did not have time stamped fuel receipts and records. The auditor instructed the owner to call fleet one and request time stamped sheets to be faxed over immediately, which he went through. Turns out to everyone's surprise that even if you don't have them time stamped (comdata and fleet one at least) has it on record. so all that has to be done is have a request for them and out they go. and the auditor will ask for them. i try to make my fuel stops and even my tolls match. I'd be screwed if they went by pre-pass box or something though. Those wouldn't even be close most of the time. btw, the auditor didn't ask for toll receipts only fuel. however, i'm sure that he could have asked for tolls. but i'm not sure if the company has to keep them. if they don't, i'm sure they got trashed :lol: |
Do not forget the Qualcom
I think this discussion is worthy for smaller companies that do not use Qualcom .. but for those drivers with a Qualcom .. your company pings your truck via satellite on a regular time period. The Qualcom software stores a coordinate in a database. That database is legal evidence of the proximity of the vehicle that can be used to verify the verity of a logbook.
So .... all you log averagers (logging speed over hours rather than actual time) there is a risk of being caught in a log audit. Usually after one of your fellow drivers hits something and causes a DOT reportable event. Then the DOT starts to turn the company upside down ... More companies that use Qualcom services are using a value added product that matches the scanned logbook pages with the "rat turds" from the Qualcom database. Gordon and Crete and two I know for sure. It is usually in reaction to a DOT audit but not always. My honest opinion is that GPS tracking and recording devices will be standard equipment sometime in 2010. Making log averaging passe ... |
Maybe I was just one of the lucky ones!!
I had an excellent dispatcher and freight manager, and time issues were co-ordinated very well. By running at night, I missed so many of the factors that could slow you down during the day. (i.e.; traffic jams, rush hour, wrecks, etc.)... not to say that there were not some problems, but far fewer of them. Were there some wrecks on the highway?? Yes, but there was not the endless back-up of traffic. On a few occasions, highway construction would be a problem; especially when they were doing some type of bridge repairs, but that was not a perpetual problem. Blown tires or mechanical failure will slow you down, and that is just a fact; yet, by checking PSI on a regular basis, I had fewer tire problems. While we had a relatively limited fuel network, I wasn't bound by the fuel management programs that some companies operate, where a driver is told where to fuel, and how many gallons to put in. By running at night, there were far fewer things to slow me down. By refueling right before I shut down, or right before I resumed driving, there was less need to "re-think my log book perspectives. I maximized my opportunities for HOS on a daily basis, to be sure; but the adjustments trat I had to make were far less severe. I never had a problem with log book audits. Went over budget on my hours a few times due to unforseen problems when on time delivery was critical, but that was all. |
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Put it to you like this: say you're sitting at an intersection and a drunk plows into you and kills himself. Opposing lawyers go over your logbook, qualcomm records, receipts, tolls, shippers/receivers logs etc. Oops, seems like you were 15 minutes over your 14 when the incident occurred. Guess what? The attorneys will argue that had you been running a 100% DOT complaint logbook, you would have been shut down and not been there. Which means you go directly to jail, do not pass go, do not collect $200.00. Say goodbye to your house, car, savings, CDL, etc. That's why ALL that stuff has to match up and you MUST log it like you do it. Otherwise you're breaking the law and exposing yourself to HUGE liabilities. |
Let's say I'm nowhere NEAR my 14th hour, but I drove M-a-y-b-e 30 minutes over my 11 hours, with several breaks inbetween, but the miles can be "averaged" at below the posted speed limits for all states I've run through today.
Legally, I shouldn't BE there, YET. (because I sped 5 miles over the limit, after sitting in traffic for an hour.) But, neither you NOR the DOT can prove I didn't get there within the 11 hours. The fact that I took a 3 hour nap at the shipper while they were "finding me a door," can't be proven one way or another. Now, you just have a dead FOOL who can't drive his 4wheeler, and I'm in the clear. I know what you are saying, MUG. But, YOU have to face the same reality that the DOT has allready faced. The absolute BEST they can hope for, is that MOST drivers will follow the "spirit" of the law. Anyone, especially newbies, that log EVERYTHING exactly as they do it, will NOT make the miles, therefore not make the money in this business. Therefore..... a high turnover rate, and many of them go back to civilization..... where, IMHO, they BELONG! |
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When Werner was getting approval for their paperless log it was determine there was no loss of driving time between those that used a logbook vs those that used paperless logs. What they have found since going the paperless log route is drivers are doing better at time management. Which I think is the single biggest problem for most drivers. I don't agree with the present D.O.T. concept of logging, way to many rules and exceptions. But they have come to this because of a FEW drivers that can't use common sense. These FEW drivers are forcing the D.O.T. to look harder and harder at controlling ALL drivers by OBR systems. Which I think will cause a reduction in total driving time. Causing an increase in the number of trucks which will lead to increasing accidents. Going back in history you will see the major change in driving habits was when companies when to just-in-time freight. Yes there has always been a few that did the drive till you drop thing but most used good old common sense. They knew when they were tired and took a nap. But under the present system drivers are forced many times to keep on driving when they are tired because of 14 hour rule. Before the 14 hour rule you could take a hour or two nap and not hurt your driving time. The second problem D.O.T. will have to address is the delay times cause my shippers and receivers. Along this same line the problem of driver's being allow to load and unload freight. Now that we have solved the driving problems I'd say it time for the D.O.T. to look at getting every driver a Secretary to handle the paperwork. :D Have a great and safe day. kc0iv |
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It boils down to this. It doesn't matter what your company policies are. It doesn't matter what they let you get away with or what you think you are getting away with.
What's going to count is the day you are sitting in a jail cell because in a split second, someone did something stupid and you were in the wrong place at the wrong time and that someone is no longer alive. It won't matter that it wasn't your fault because a lawyer is going to be pulling up ever bit of info that says you where in one place when your log says you were somewhere else. And when it is all said and done, if you win your case, you will have lost everything to pay for the lawyers. If you lose you will be spending a number of years in prison with your life and your families lives in shambles. And your companies stands a good chance of going down with you if they don't have deep pockets. Check out Roads West out of Phoenix. They just sold out to Knight Transportation and the driver that took them down is looking at 20 years. Do you think you get paid enough to take that kind of risk. There are companies out there these days where you can run legal at all times and make a good living. Things are actually changing. No one likes change, but the time is here. Drive safe all! |
We where always told to log according to the time the qualcomm stated.
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Very True Statement
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Log audits
Interesting conversation. All we require for our Driver Log Auditing Service, for "time verification/falsification" is fuel receipt information which is "standard and primary" for Log Audtiting. However, if a DOT auditor suspects there are more than a few questions regarding your log books, they can look for anything with a time stamp.
You are all correct here. The fuel card companies track your time regardless whether or not there is a time stamp on your receipt. Now, if you use cash, and I know some of you do, other sources such as scales, dispatch records, border crossings etc. come into play. Be careful with toll receipts. Some older facilities may simply print off a handful of receipts to hand out that could have been sitting for some time. Edward1 The FMCSA will be handing down a ruling soon about this issue and proposed mandatory inboard HOS recording equipment. Stay tuned for that. About GPS Satellite Tracking Equipment such as Qualcom and our Datatracking equipment. I had a driver ask this interesting question, "Since the tracking equipment tracks speed, time, distance and location, has a log auditor asked your company for electronic data for an audit?" I had to think about that. I made a call to our tracking control station, then our auditing staff and the answer was NO. |
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if your a company driver your SOL as far as actually getting to drive your whole 11 hours i`d venture to guess but if your running on your own its entirely possible, hell its probable.
I get my 11 every day and with 75 mph speed limits and a very friendly cashier at the sinclair station south of casper on I25 I have no fear of being audited, i`m not saying it`s entirely legal but i`m not driving tired and if I got stopped I wouldn`t have an issue. |
I have survived 3 full blown DOT audits and what they like to do is take a sampling of drivers and lay out about 2 weeks worth of logs on a table then reconstruct what he did using fuel rcpts, toll rcpts, scale rcpts, bols and anyother paperwork that may have been in the file. We as drivers get the HEAT from company log audit departments because they hound us to get the correct info on the logs as it happened and we need to LIE, LIE, LIE on the log to make a decent living and get the freight delivered that pays their salary, but their job protects ours, so its a two way street that we have to look at from the safest side, theirs. Keep good logs and if you ever have a major accident, you can sleep easy at night knowing that you are covered.
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fuel
When a driver is involved in a major accident, ex; bodily injury, fatality, or for that matter any type of incident that involves litigation. FUEL, WEIGHT.....TOLLS......... One of the first moves that an attorney will make is to request (and WILL receive) the corporate records of these transactions that include TIME STAMPS. The lack of time stamping mostly works for a 'rest stop' type inspection. It certainly does not in the case of more serious incidents
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That's the problem with that job. In order to make a decent check, you've got to "fudge" it to git er' done. But doing so exposes yourself to huge legal/financial liabilities. Do you think your company will stand by you after an accident? Better think again.
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Each fuel receipt has a number attached to it. Although the time may not be listed on the receipt itself, it will be on the register at the time of transaction. If you use a fuel card the time will be listed on the employers copy on the billing statement. It may not be needed for an audit, but if a truck is involved in a serious accident then these receipts could be requested. If the logs do not match the times then you have some serious problems. By the way, we talk about the new EOBR's as though they are something new. All anyone need to is take the CPU from the truck and they can find anything they want about what happened prior to the accident. A few years ago, while having an injector installed at the CAT dealer in Denver, I was told that in a serious accident they ALWAYS pull the CPU out of the truck and bring it to them for testing. They can tell everything they want from the CPU without going to the expense of having everyone put in a new on board recording device. They are already on the trucks. FOLLOW THE MONEY!!!!
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Simple green and a toothpick work well for this, and you can drink all your coffee...lol |
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And yet, what can you do? You have to pay the bills, and to log it legal when you've sat all day waiting to get unloaded/loaded doesn't put food on the table or buy little Jimmy new sneakers and an IPOD for school. :lol: It's a bit like Russian Roulette (not that I ever have tried that :wink: ... although I admit I have written a "comic book" [and sometimes two of them] a time or two in my life). But it's playing with fire.... who knows when your number is going to come up.... |
I am sure glad I am a O/O. I pay for anything related to the truck with a business check, American Express, or my business credit card. The only way DOT could get the transaction times would be by court order. But, I run legal anyways ...
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