User Tag List

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #1  
Old 11-08-2008, 01:21 AM
Musicman's Avatar
Senior Board Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Southern IL
Posts: 790
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Talking Bad Grounds Suck

Since we bought our new truck, I’ve been battling some mysterious problems. One is an intermittent cruise problem I’ve already posted about in this forum. Another one is a problem burning out headlights and associated harness connectors. All battery connections are tight and I’ve looked at just about every other possibility. A few months ago, I was in Whittier, CA and spent about eight hours with Tyler Stone, the owner of Comfortmaster APU, and one of the things he mentioned when we were talking about trucks in general is how surprised he was at how poorly most truck electrical systems are designed. He commented that the battery cables with the huge insulated ends (over the connectors) are garbage because the insulation on the connectors limits contact between jumpers (between batteries) and battery cables and the battery posts, and that he’s never seen a truck that was properly grounded from the factory. Tyler and Comfortmaster are only recent entrants into the APU market. For the last twenty years or more, his companies have provided custom built generators to the movie industry, department of defense and others, so when it comes to issues involving electrical power I value his opinion.

This week, I finally got a chance to really work on our truck and it’s amazing what I found. The starter has only one 2 or 0 gauge ground wire going to the frame and the same thing applies to the batteries. What is even worse is the way they are attached to the frame. Peterbilt drilled a hole through the painted frame, put a 3 inch bolt through it, and put two washers and a nut on the bolt, then the ground and then another set of washers and a nut. The result of this is that the ground wire connector makes no bare metal to bare metal contact directly with the frame, but rather must rely solely on its contact with the bolt and nuts to conduct current. Direct Current electricity travels on the outside of surfaces, not through them, so the idea is to have as much surface area in contact between connections as possible. Peterbilt seems not to understand this.

I removed the starter ground from its frame mount bolt, took the nuts and washers off the bolt, ground off the paint surrounding the bolt hole and then bolted the ground connecter directly to the exposed frame. I also added an additional 0 gauge battery ground to the same bolt. The result was that the starter spins the engine more easily, all of my lights (especially headlights) are brighter, the charging system seems to be working more efficiently (volts gauge used to put out just above 13.5 volts, now it’s putting out 14.2), and I was able to idle the truck up with the cruise without it kicking out after a few seconds, which has always been a problem.

My last Peterbilt would go through a starter about every 18 months to 2 years. It makes me wonder now if part of its short life span was due to having an inadequate ground. I won’t know for certain if this solved my headlight and cruise problem until I get out on the road and put some hours on the truck, but things are definitely looking up.

Even if you aren’t having any electrical problems, it might be worth your time to check how well grounded your truck really is. It might save some problems and money down the road.

Last edited by Musicman; 11-08-2008 at 01:24 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 11-08-2008, 01:31 AM
Rev.Vassago's Avatar
Guest
Board Icon
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: The other side of the coin
Posts: 9,368
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Default

I just had all my batteries and starter replaced 2 days ago (due to some serious hesitation when starting), and the first thing the Peterbilt technician did was to cut all the insulation off the battery connectors. He said pretty much the same thing you are - that the insulation actually hinders the batteries from creating a good connection.

I went with a different type of starter too - this starter uses about half the amps as the old one to start the truck, and weighs about 30 lbs less to boot. It is made by Mitsubishi, but PACCAR has put their name on it. At just under $300, it is a bit pricier than the Delco starter that they have carried for years, but it also has a 3 year warranty with it. Well worth the money, IMO, even though it sounds really weird when I start the truck now.

I also was a die hard advocate of Optima batteries, but after discussing my battery options with the parts guy, I decided that they were no longer the answer for me. I tend to discharge my batteries pretty low, which is why I always used Group 31 batteries, but he convinced me that a dual-use PACCAR battery was a much better option. At a little more than a third of the price of an Optima, and with a 2 year non-prorated warranty, I don't see how I can go wrong with them.

I was shocked to find that they wanted nearly $300 for an Optima battery. The last time I had an Optima changed, it was about $100 less. To spend $1200 on a set of four batteries would have been ridiculous, when I got a set of 4 PACCAR batteries for $480.

Hopefully your headlight issue is solved. Keep us posted.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 11-08-2008, 01:46 AM
allan5oh's Avatar
Senior Board Member
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: jackassville (winnipeg, mb)
Posts: 3,280
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Default

The starter you speak of rev is a gear reduction starter, I think the old direct drive starters are garbage. Gear reduction is the way to go.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 11-08-2008, 01:47 AM
Musicman's Avatar
Senior Board Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Southern IL
Posts: 790
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Default

Rev, Tyler did the same thing with my cable ends when he was fixing some of the things the APU installers at the dealership cut corners on. He also said that the insulators hold corosion in and magnify the problem. It makes good sense, I have to admit.

I bought Optimas a year ago and a set of four installed at the Petro in York, NE cost me $900, if I remember correctly. I have no complaints about them, and have certainly put them through Hell. We were pulling an enclosed auto transport at the time; and before we got the Optimas, I’d have to idle to power the electric hydraulic pump on the transport. After the Optimas, I could load eight Lotuses at the port running on nothing but battery power and the truck would start right up every time when we were done. The PACCAR batteries do sound interesting though, if for nothing more than the two year warranty and price. Whenever my Optimas need replaced, I’ll have to look into getting a set of them, although by then there will probably be something new and improved out. Battery technology seems to be growing by leaps and bounds these days… one of the few good things about all this “Green Technology”.

The headlight problem I could live with. The cruise problem drives me close to insanity. Hopefully this little trick has solved both problems.

Last edited by Musicman; 11-08-2008 at 04:08 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 11-08-2008, 01:51 AM
Musicman's Avatar
Senior Board Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Southern IL
Posts: 790
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rev.Vassago View Post
At just under $300, it is a bit pricier than the Delco starter that they have carried for years, but it also has a 3 year warranty with it. Well worth the money, IMO, even though it sounds really weird when I start the truck now..
$300 is CHEAP. I've not had to replace a starter on our new truck yet, but on my '03 387 the Delco cost $345. I will definately have to write this down and keep it in the truck for handy reference.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 11-08-2008, 02:00 AM
allan5oh's Avatar
Senior Board Member
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: jackassville (winnipeg, mb)
Posts: 3,280
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Default

Get the delco 39mt instead of the 42mt. It's cheaper, gear reduction, and all around better.

I think I paid $270 for mine.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 11-08-2008, 02:13 AM
Musicman's Avatar
Senior Board Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Southern IL
Posts: 790
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by allan5oh View Post
Get the delco 39mt instead of the 42mt. It's cheaper, gear reduction, and all around better. I think I paid $270 for mine.
Yes, but if it is like other Delco starters, it only has a 1 year warranty. I like the sound of the Mitsubishi starter Rev bought with a three year warranty. Our truck is 2.5 years old and if it’s like our last 387, its starter probably has one foot in the grave already.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 11-08-2008, 02:23 AM
allan5oh's Avatar
Senior Board Member
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: jackassville (winnipeg, mb)
Posts: 3,280
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Default

The 39mt comes with a 3 year warranty.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 11-08-2008, 03:40 AM
Musicman's Avatar
Senior Board Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Southern IL
Posts: 790
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Default

Is it also 30 pounds lighter than the standard OEM starter as the Mitsubishi model touted by Rev is? If so, then there would seem to be no real difference between the two besides personal preference and / or availability. Being 30 pounds lighter sure would make swapping a starter a lot easier.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 11-08-2008, 03:47 AM
allan5oh's Avatar
Senior Board Member
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: jackassville (winnipeg, mb)
Posts: 3,280
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Default

It will be similar to the mitsubishi yes, planetary drive, gear reduction, soft engage, etc.. worlds ahead of the old direct drive clunkers we called "starters". They should be obsolete!

FWIW, I know someone in the parts side of things, and he says the denso starters are by far the best. Good luck finding one though.
Reply With Quote
Reply





Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT. The time now is 03:35 PM.


User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging v3.3.0 (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2024 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.