Ooops....I'm an OTR o/o. I don't think the vast majority of LTL drivers are clearing 90K.

You did say " Plenty "

I never said plenty were making 90K, in fact, if you re-read, I was speaking on behalf of OTR drivers in special niches.

I know LTL drivers aren't making 80-90K, and is more the 50-75K figure quoted.

You're right, it was smooth that said it, well my comments go to him then!
Sorry for the mistake....

I'm at UPS Freight. Starting pay is .459/mi and top is .5415/mi after 3 years. I'm low man and I grossed 1180 this week. As low man sometimes its only 700. Every barn has at least 1 90k man. Figure the senior guys get the best runs. 550 mi a day guaranteed. 2750 mi a week x .5415=$1489. Now add say 12 hrs a week at $22/hr for fueling, drop/hook, dockwork, etc. 12 x $22 = $264. $1489 + $264 = 1753/week x 52 = $91156. To make this kind of cash you have to have the seniority to pick and choose plus they're working 60+ hrs a week. The top 5-10% of the board at every barn at UPS,FEDEX,YELOW,ROADWAY,CONWAY would be in this category. So even though 90% of the guys are not doing 90k there is "plenty" who do. The average would be 45k-80k depending on seniority and other factors. Still very good jobs. The actual mileage and hours would vary but every terminal has 1 or more doing 90. I've even heard of select guys with the "perfect run" making 100k. These are road drivers, city guys are hourly and do well but not 90k.

Now you see why no one quits and why new guys are willing to be on call to get some seniority. It only sucks for a year or two. What's the other option, drive OTR for 2 years and still be in the same boat 2 years later? Now add in free or low cost family medical, 8-10 paid holidays a year, 3-5 paid personal days a year, 1-5 weeks paid vacation a year, at some places a paid pension. And alot of these guys go home every day or do a layover in a motel. A few stay out all week but its the minority and there in motels and 100 percent legal. No fudging logs. The bad side? When its slow "on call" means no work and guys cant hang in there and thats how you move up, that and retirements. Keep your bills low and do it while you're young and you'll be all set.

Your actual mileage may vary. :wink:

There are still not PLENTY of drivers doing 90k+ a year! Your 1 or more does not constitute plenty. 80k a year is still a far reach for a lot of these companys. Don't get these guys hopes up with these inflated figures! I have 1 of these better paying jobs, and the top driver with the most time on the job, is knocking down high 70k. Now granted he doesn't work all that hard, but he has also been there 17 yrs. In my 30 yrs experience, drivers will always inflate what they say they make, maybe it gives them the feeling of higher worth, who knows? Lets see what these good jobs will be worth in the future when you guys try to sign up every tom, dick, and harry. Remember the drivers making this kind of money have a work ethic that the normal crop of drivers these days don't seem to posses. To come on this forum and throw around pay #s is bu##s#$t, talk is cheap, and just because you say its so, a seasoned driver will see right through the BS. It will though make you look like a big strapper with the newbies...lol

Seems to be a difference of opinion on what the word plenty means so lets put it this way. I'm at a small barn of 15 road drivers, the average barn probably has 40-50 drivers. A large Yellow terminal near me has 300-400 drivers. These terminals are in or near every city in America, excluding rural areas. Ever notice the number of doubles out there from Conway/FedEx/Yellow etc? Theres alot of them. Fact is the top 5% or so can make 90 if they choose to work that hard. How can you say me quoting exact pay plans and facts is bull? You act as though you know so much maybe you are out of touch. I posted facts so others could see. I really dont care if you believe me. I Agree and already stated that 45-80 is more likely. Still a damn good job. Every company I referenced has top pay of aprox .54 per mile plus hourly for drops/hooks/fuel/dock etc. Its very simple do the math. You claim to have a good job so I cant figure out if your for LTL or for OTR? If you are for LTL why the bashing?

Another question:

OK so answer this. What's top pay where you work? What would your top driver make at .54/mi? He's at high 70's and not even working hard you say. I'd say thats pretty good. I know the barn Smooth is at and there's some hard runners there. A very large barn with a "hog board" if you know what that means and senior drivers can be as fat and happy as they want. The thread was asking LTL or OTR. This board is a place for drivers to learn and share information. My vote would be LTL. Whats yours?

Yeah , some people don't get it . There are 415 road drivers where I work , the top 200 have been there 10 years or more , that should say enough about the job itself . The thing is it's more the the .54 cpm , it's the $22 an hour where you make money to , guys rountinely get 10 or 20 hours a week on the clock either waiting on loads , broke down , sitting at a hotel or doing a drop and hook . But you don't have to believe any of this but I'm just stating a few more facts that all the other LTL guys can confirm .

These are YOUR facts not Industry facts, and pay plans for each company is only as good as the work they have for that day!I'm for the Industry, not just 1 or the other. I have made quite a good living doing both, but not everyone will. When you use the word Plenty, it leads people to believe enough for everyone. 5 % In my opinion is not plenty. What I'm saying about you telling us what drivers make is you really don't know for sure. I would not tell you exactly what I make, and I'm sure no one else would either. This is not meant as a attack at you personally, but what I make and what others make will never be correctly told to you or anyone. There are not enough of these GOOD jobs for everyone in the trucking Industry, so why paint such a big picture for the new drivers, as most will not see these wages! Drivers can make a very good wage, but these will be true drivers, and a lot of the others with no drive or work ethic will fail. Do you see what I am getting at? We are seeing drivers wages falling as more and more drivers enter the job market, so make Hay while the sun shines, and remember your work ethic, I hope it will hold weight with company's when this job market is flooded with new drivers. Just like how cheap freight goes for the O/O there is always someone out there that will do it cheaper, and where will leave that GOOD job then??? Think about it!

Hi, I'm days away from my road test with the ministry of transportation up here in Ontario, Canada. I'm enjoying this discussion but I am still 50/50 on whether to try for LTL or OTR ...(lol) ... anyways I might be better off going with a company like Scneider for a year so that I qualify for other companies requirements that actually do pay reasonably. I just don't want to starve or fall behind on bills out there my first year. I still have to maintain a home and actually live on the road. This is a big concern of mine. From what I have read in this and many other discussions is that the larger companies tend to exploit the new driver because they know that there aren't alot of options for them. It seems its a big game. Maybe what I am looking for here is some advice or guidance from you more experienced drivers or even a newer driver that is ahead of me at the moment. It's all appreciated! thanks[/b]

I'm not putting down the LTL side of the industry, this is the type of job I have, I just have a problem with the word PLENTY. just because the other guys company has 400+ drivers, what about the thousands at other company's. Not every local, or LTL job pays the same as the better ones.
I wont work some place where i make less than 55k a year, weather its LTL or over the road, but a lot of drivers wont see wages like this. I have been in about every aspect of this Industry for the last 30 yrs and it is going to hell in a hand basket. Don't read parts of my post, read the whole thing, and put everything I say together. If every driver made what these good jobs paid, this would be the best industry to be in, but they don't and that is my point. Don't blow smoke up these guys ass, it isn't pie in the sky for everyone!!

I have never worked for a BIG OTR company in my life. I think the new driver today will most certainly have to consider this path. I never went to a truck driving school, so all of that I can not comment on. Keeping a home and being on the road is really hard with the cost of living like it is. Your family will also suffer to some degree, but family's do what they have to do! I raised 2 family's on the road, it was tough sometimes, but all my children turned out just fine. To say you have to do your time on the road before you get a good local job seems to be the norm from what I have seen, but there are exceptions to every rule. You have to do your homework, and you might find your exception! When you first start out its always hard, I know it was for me. Keep a good work ethic about you, and remember this job is what you make it. Have a good attitude and you could go far. A lot of people think the world owes them a living, and with this attitude, you will be sure to fail. As with any career change, think long and hard, and only you will know if it is right for you! For someone to tell you that you can do it could be wrong, maybe you can and maybe you cant. I did it, but you are not me, see what I mean? Think about something, these GOOD jobs also have their drawbacks, like 10 to 12 hrs a day, come home, eat, then get rest so you can do it the next day, it almost like OTR except you sleep in your own bed, and maybe be lucky to have your time off on the weekend, or it maybe during the week, who knows. Everything good has a price tag on it. Well Mark Twain I am not, I hope you understand what I was trying to say.... See Ya BOL

I appreciate the time you took to respond. I understand what you are saying. I'm a hard worker anyways, so that won't be an issue.

Don't forget about the additional 20 to 25k a year in bennies(retirement, health and welfare) to go along with that pay.

Boy, that's just wrong, pushing pencils all day,this link you gave us shows us that the officials and their staff do well for themselves...lol

Key to the $100,000 Club
This chart lists Teamster officials and staff who received salaries of over $100,000 in
2005. This information was compiled from hundreds of Department of Labor LM-2 and
LM-3 forms and IRS Form 990 reports. Total compensation includes salaries, allowances
and expenses, but does not reflect other benefits such as pensions and automobiles.
Footnotes:
*The LM form or Form 990 was not available for 2005, number is based on 2004 forms.
1 Retired or left union employment due to retirement, election defeat, discharge or by action of the
Independent Review Board or other legal action.
Abbreviations:
BA=Bakery and Laundry Conference; BLET=Brotherhood of Locomotive Engineers and
Trainmen; BMWED=Brotherhood of Maintenance of Way; BR=Brewery and Soft Drink Workers
Conference; CC=Cannery Council; Dairy=Dairy Conference; GCA=BLET General Committee of
Adjustment; GCC=Graphics Communications Conference; Intl=International; JC=Joint Council;
KY-WV=Kentucky-West Virginia Conference; L=Local Union; MO-KS=Missouri-Kansas-
Nebraska Conference; SLA=BLET State Legislative Association

At least i can say i'm unbiased. I will show both sides of the story.

Both sides of what story, it had nothing to do whith what drivers make???
Explain what you mean..

Heck you can get more than that if you are at an outfit that lets or requires drivers to work the dock. You can squeeze out an extra $60 per day if you work the dock. You can only drive 11 hrs per day but you can work the dock for an extra 3.

From my barn in Reno the "best" run on straight mileage is meet & turn for Salt Lake City for 528 miles. But going to Oakland (432 mi) and getting 3-4 hrs of dock is the biggest money maker.

I have 28 years seniority with Brown. I run a Phoenix/Tucson combo bid. I work 4 days per week. I only work OT when I want to as I have enough time in that usually I'll pass on it. I average 75K a year. There are people at UPS that make more, I'm sure, but 90K would have to be a severe "clock milker" where I work. And those guys usually get fired....I feel what I make is more than fair and I have put in my time (and my sweat) to get to that rate. If I wanted or needed more money, I'd volunteer for OT runs, but I'm just too da#n old to be greedy anymore....

You can work the dock as long as you want, you just cant drive again untill you have 10 hrs off!

Re: WHY WORK FOR A OTR COMPANY GO LTL
 

JB Hunt pays more than 30 cpm, I'm getting .43 cpm + bonus of .02 cpm (idle percentage and mpg) which is pretty easy to obtain and .13 cpm for per diem. So potential of .58 cpm.

I thought the way the per diem worked was that they would take the .13 from your base of .43 and tax you on the .30, then reinburse you for the .13 or as some companies steal .02 from you, only .11 back tax free. No?

Sorry if I'm wrong, but that's how it was at my company.

Have a safe trip.

I thought thats how it worked, I might be wrong? On my settlement it shows the .13 cpm for per diem plus my regular pay.

Depends on the company. it may be legal to work more than 14 hours as long as you dont drive, but some ltl companies wont allow this to happen as per the NMFA. Where I work. we have to watch our hours and we cannot go over 60 hours in the last 7 even if we are working the dock all week. Its a contract thing, go figure.

Re: WHY WORK FOR A OTR COMPANY GO LTL
 

Fist thing lose the caps, second thing, did you ever hear of different stokes for different folks. :roll:
Not everybody likes the same things, and you got to get your start somewhere. :wink:

I had my start several years ago and am back on the road again. Currently I'm being courted by Southeastern and FedEx LTL, but I just enjoy what I'm doing now too much. It's technically OTR, but I pretty much only run four states, Texas more often than not and am home every weekend, all weekend. But I don't have a family so I don't really care about being home every day. I have most of the comforts of home in the truck and I know what LTL trucking is all about. I don't know... Maybe someday I'll go LTL, but for now I'm happy doing what I'm doing. And I love my black Pete! No LTL company I know of runs 379 Petes so that really rules it all out for me. 8)

Well, I do know of a tanker company that runs 379's...but they ARE daycabs, so i don't think that counts! :)

I like my OTR gig, because I can sit and STILL make money :) Plus, my layovers are always in big cities and I get out of the truck more than freight haulers (generally) do.

Higher cpm doesn't mean squat if the miles aren't there. Its all a balance, or for some, OTR is a starting point. I do agree that clearing 6-700 bucks a week OTR is horscrap.

KASteel ?

[/quote]I like my OTR gig, because I can sit and STILL make money :) Plus, my layovers are always in big cities and I get out of the truck more than freight haulers (generally) do.[/quote]

eewww, big cities.

Isn't dry van the worst paying gig you could do in trucking ? :wink:

Dry van isn't the worst. CR pays less than most dry van companies, so its really and apples/oranges deal. Its all about the company you work for.

As far as big cities, would you rather be stuck in BUFU for 3 days or in a new town with sights to see? :wink: :lol:

Since the gist of this thread is wages..here are some numbers..based solely on mileage pay:

1500 miles per week @ .275 cents per mile = $412.50
If you average 59 miles per hour, that is 25.43 hours of driving time, or $16.22 per hour.

2500 mpw @ .275 cpm = $687.50 @ 59 miles mph / 42.38 hours = $16.22 ph.

1500 mpw @ .36 cpm = $540.00 @ 59 mph / 25.42 hrs = $21.24 ph.
2500 mpw @ .36 cpm = $900.00 @ 59 mph / 42.37 hrs = $21.24 ph.

Now...kick your mile per hour average up to 63 mph.

1500 mpw @ .36 cpm = $ 540.00 @ 63 mph / 23.81 hrs = $22.68 ph.
2500 mpw @ .36 cpm = $ 900.00 @ 63 mph / 39.69hrs = $22.68 ph.

1500 mpw @ .435 cpm = $652.50 @ 63 mph / 23.81 hrs = $27.40 ph
2500 mpw @ .435 cpm = $1,085.50 @ 63 mph / 39.69 hrs = $ 27.35 ph

1500 mpw @ .545 cpm = $817.50 @ 63 mph / 23.81 hrs = $34.33 ph
2500 mpw @ .545 cpm = $1,362.50 @ 63 mph / 39.69 hrs = $34.33 ph

All things being equal, if you just have driving time and no work hours, even .36 cents per mile is a decent wage....if you get the miles.

Now..take a 1500 mile week, and 70 available work hours. If you have basicly 24 hours of driving time, that leaves you with 46 hours available for work. If you actually worked all 46 of those hours, and your employer did not cut your hours due to the all to common 2 hour give away, and you were paid $13.25 per hour for labor, without any Overtime paid, your hourly wage for the week would be (46 x $13.25) $609.50 + mileage pay (@.275) of $412.50 = $1022 for a 70 hour week, or $14.60 per hour.

@ .36 cpm your 70 hour wage would be $1149.50 or $16.42 per hour

@ .435 cpm that 70 hour wage is $1262.00 or $18.03 ph.

@ .545 cpm that 70 wage is $1972 or $28.17 ph.


Which would you prefer? Driving time or Working time??

well said I couldn't have said it better myself *smiling*...hear hear!!!

Keep on Truckin...

At CWX we are not allowed to do anything "safety sensitive" after our 14. That includes running a towmotor, yard goat or breaking your set.

In theory you could write bills or do other office work.

Many of our policies are similar to the NMFA. I suspect that is because management would strongly like to avoid the IBT, but that's a can of worms I'm going to leave closed.

At my barn we do have one guy who does the P&D routing who goes over 60/7 when we are busy, but he has a special waver from the safety dept. He has to run a log to make sure he is legal for the the once in a blue moon when he has to drive, run the yard goat or a towmotor.

wow that was broken down pretty nicely...were you an accountant in your past field? LOL...just kidding...
I think I am going to copy this....since I never took the time to do the math....and figure it out it is definitely worth the trouble to retain...since you took the trouble to get it all down here...

Keep on Truckin...

Your numbers are skewed to what you want them to say. In reality, the average OTR driver is putting in more than 70 hours a week, if you include all the things that he is doing in his spare time, and all the times he "fixes" his logbook.

If the driver is getting paid $0.36 per mile, and running 2500 miles per week, he is getting less than $12.85 per hour for the hours that he is more than likely putting in to make that. That also does not include the time that he is away from home.

Besides - you are going to be hard pressed to average 59 miles per hour in the real world, let alone 63 (given traffic, accidents, pee breaks, weather, etc.). Any other job in this country would pay you for the labor you do. Heck, even the workers at the shippers and receivers are getting paid for the work they do - why aren't you?

If companies want to pay a per-mile rate for the miles you drive, then fine. But loading and unloading is not included in that rate, no matter how much you want to believe it is. The carriers expect you to do it for free.

Yep, that's why OTR is such a scam. When you break down all the unpaid hours, it works out to a ridiculously low hourly rate. One thing I could never figure out is why so many whistle while they work for free. Is it for the glory of showing off their big red rooster cruiser? I don't know. Whatever the reason it ain't enough for me.

Are you in the same Local as I, Local 63?

Just depends on who you are and what your priorities are. I'm single, no bills, house is paid for. Much of my money goes toward chrome and do-dads. I love my Rooster Cruiser and love to show it off. Getting home every day doesn't mean anything to me. I've done the local gigs and I just wind up sitting around bored to death waiting to go to bed. Hell, I'd rather be hauling azz in a sweet Pete. Maybe one day LTL will work better, but for now it's all about the fun and the freedom. 8)