[Orangetxguy]

Originally Posted by Snowman7

Sorry, I couldnt remember, I thought it was lack of work. OK so you didnt like the work right? You say even as a driver you wouldnt like bumping docks all day. Which I can understand, thats why I'm not a city driver, But I'm curious why you took the job? I have run the city before and its not that bad, not great, but I can tolerate it. The road is definately more suitable to me. To other's reading this here is an example of how LTL is not for everyone. Dock is simply a part of LTL, its what we do. We pickup small orders of a few pallets and combine them at our dock, then send them to another terminal where they get seperated again and delivered. Dockwork is always there and guys who dont have seniority will eventually have to do it. Some more than others, its different all over. We have 20 year guys doing dockwork for whatever reason, some like it. Then we have guys who never work the dock. It pays the same hourly rate as driving, work is work, better than no check. I like LTL for a number of reasons. The pay, it feels like a real job where I go home everyday, I dont sleep in a truck, If I am layed over I get a motel, the pay, I'm off on weekends and major holidays. So for me I'd rather drive a forklift once in a while than sleep in a truck. Kentla likes fuel. I think I could also like that job but around here they run 7/24 and new guys work weekends for years before getting enough seniority. Plus they run holidays too. Not me, cant do it. So we have LTL, food service, fuel, dumps, heavy eqipment....the list goes on and on. Find what meets your needs.

Great post Snowbunny!! You're exactly right!

Every driving job isn't a fit for every person. Each driver needs to find what makes them happy, as a driver, and pursue that position. Do the job as best they can, take the hard knocks and the good times, and live life. Timberwolf has found his niche. It works well for him. Each of us is responsible for our own happiness. If one thing becomes boring and tideous, find something else to do, while remaining a driver.

[dieselpower]

Hello guys! I know UPS/FEDEX are supposed to be the jobs to have. I drive for a mail contractor making 23.07hr. I pull a 53ft trailer going to 4 post offices along my route. I know the postal service is having a hard time financially right now but I don't see the post office shutting down any time soon. If they could solve their problems with having to put so much into retiree's acounts each year they could make a profit, thats not made up they have news letters posted inside post offices break rooms explaining to congress about how this is affecting their ability to make a profit. I run 4 days a week b/c I was so tired doing this 5 days a week so we hired a relief driver. I made over 65.000 last year and i did not work the weekends. There are some companies that will screw you with the fringe benefit part but those guys are still making 20 something an hr even with the fringe benefit being deducted from the checks. The work is not hard at all, all rolling equipment that's easy to push and if you have pallets the post office dock workers load them with a forklift while you stand and watch-thats what I do. The company I drive for requires you to have 2 years tractor trailer experience. I have been told that the post office requires that amount of experience from the contractor when they hire a driver. I don't know how true it is but I know they wouldn't hire my brother without 2 years of experience.

[tjv189]

This question is for Snowman:

In an earlier post, you mentioned the differences between UPS and UPS Freight. You mentioned how all the UPS Freight tractors have the gray tone and have the word "Freight" on the trailers. Then you mentioned plain old UPS (parcel and small package), with the all brown tractors and the trailers with only the UPS logo. My question is, are the basic requirements to get hired as a tractor-trailer driver for "plain old UPS" the same as the requirements you mentioned for getting hired by UPS Freight? I know you said you guys have different contracts etc, but would you happen to know where these UPS tractor trailer drivers come from and how they get into those positions, or what the requirements would be to get into those positions? A lot of the guys I see driving the all brown tractors look kinda young, so I'm just curious. Do these guys start out as part time dock workers at a UPS terminal, then move up to courier, then to tractor trailer driver? Or did these guys also need to have 2 years of tractor trailer experience to get in the door? I know you work for UPS Freight and not them, but I just figured that you might know. Thanks for your help.

[Snowman7]

Originally Posted by tjv189

This question is for Snowman:

In an earlier post, you mentioned the differences between UPS and UPS Freight. You mentioned how all the UPS Freight tractors have the gray tone and have the word "Freight" on the trailers. Then you mentioned plain old UPS (parcel and small package), with the all brown tractors and the trailers with only the UPS logo. My question is, are the basic requirements to get hired as a tractor-trailer driver for "plain old UPS" the same as the requirements you mentioned for getting hired by UPS Freight? I know you said you guys have different contracts etc, but would you happen to know where these UPS tractor trailer drivers come from and how they get into those positions, or what the requirements would be to get into those positions? A lot of the guys I see driving the all brown tractors look kinda young, so I'm just curious. Do these guys start out as part time dock workers at a UPS terminal, then move up to courier, then to tractor trailer driver? Or did these guys also need to have 2 years of tractor trailer experience to get in the door? I know you work for UPS Freight and not them, but I just figured that you might know. Thanks for your help.

Your question was actually already answered by feederfred. "Feeder" is a term UPS (parcel) uses to describe their tractor trailer operation. Yeah The vast majority started part time on the dock, then full time in a package delivery car, then feeders or tractor trailers. If a guy has the seniority to bid a feeder route UPS sends them to their own tractor trailer school to obtain their cdl. The process can take several years to gain enough seniority, depends on the service center. Now you could apply for part time seasonal tractor trailer during the busy season. Doesnt pay a whole lot and its not permanent full time but if they needed full time feeder drivers and nobody from within wanted the job, then they would hire from the street and most likely it would be a seasonal driver that they are already familiar with and liked his work ethic. Its a long shot at best. Most of their employees start on the dock when they are very young and can afford part time pay. Once they start working they see the great pay and benefits and just wait it out for a full time spot. But that could take 5 years, no way of knowing. You'd probably need a second job while you were waiting. Then you'd be stuck in a package car for who knows how long.

[tjv189]

Thanks Snowman. That is how I figured it worked with UPS and their feeders. A lot of the guys I see driving the feeders just don't look like they are old enough to have gotten seniority, but I guess it just depends on the service center like you said. And you're right, you never know how long you will have to wait to get into a full time feeder position. So if that is what you ultimately wanted to do, you are better off starting OTR and getting 2 or 3 years of experience then going to UPS Freight rather than being a part time dock worker for x years waiting for a feeder position to open up and get through UPS's CDL training for the job. I think I would much rather do what you do (UPS Freight Road Driver) than wait around working a dock for low pay for who knows how long just to eventually get the CHANCE to get a feeder job. But that's just me.

However, I wouldn't mind driving a forklift or working docks every now and then like you said most LTL guys do. It would be nice to mix things up a little bit sometimes I think.

But I guess for now I have to concentrate on getting my 3 years of experience before I can start worrying about getting in with FedEx Freight or UPS Freight. But thank you very much Snowman for all your help. If I have any more questions regarding LTL, you can be sure I'm coming to you with them!

[Kentla93]

Originally Posted by tjv189

Thanks Snowman. That is how I figured it worked with UPS and their feeders. A lot of the guys I see driving the feeders just don't look like they are old enough to have gotten seniority, but I guess it just depends on the service center like you said. And you're right, you never know how long you will have to wait to get into a full time feeder position. So if that is what you ultimately wanted to do, you are better off starting OTR and getting 2 or 3 years of experience then going to UPS Freight rather than being a part time dock worker for x years waiting for a feeder position to open up and get through UPS's CDL training for the job. I think I would much rather do what you do (UPS Freight Road Driver) than wait around working a dock for low pay for who knows how long just to eventually get the CHANCE to get a feeder job. But that's just me.

However, I wouldn't mind driving a forklift or working docks every now and then like you said most LTL guys do. It would be nice to mix things up a little bit sometimes I think.

But I guess for now I have to concentrate on getting my 3 years of experience before I can start worrying about getting in with FedEx Freight or UPS Freight. But thank you very much Snowman for all your help. If I have any more questions regarding LTL, you can be sure I'm coming to you with them!

TJV189,
You are still going to have to wait it out at UPS Freight. As it has been stated they are Teamsters too which means all jobs are based on senority and bids.. I took my UPS Frieght job thinking it would be a great move up and it would have been if I wanted to work the docks for two plus years without ever seeing a driver's seat. I started as a Full Time Dock Worker with CDL at almost $19 an hour before the Teamster Contract was ratified this was July of 2007. I was told I would have to work the docks for the first six to nine months and would be used as a back up city driver to cover days off and vacations along with back up duty as the yard dog. During my first 8 months I saw a drivers seat twice and worked as the yard dog maybe four times, WHY So little you ask??? Well because there were two guys ahead of me on the docks who also had CDL'S and even before the union came on board they still worked off of senority so these two guys always got to choose first if they wanted to pull the specific shift. Fast forward to March / April of 2008 when all employees at the Orlando UPS Freight barn including myself decide to vote for the Teamsters to represent us at the barginning table. Once the contract was signed and in place the first thing UPS Frieght did was to cut back 8 city drivers to work the docks and two or three road drivers were bumped to city drivers. The one driver who had the most senority and who got bumped from his job had eight years with the comapany. That left me at the bottom of a long list of young guys who are not going anywhere, It soon became apparent that I would not be driving for at least another two years if I was lucky... The Union can work well for those who have senority all you have to do is stick it out and if you have patience and the ability to stand by while some (NOT ALL workers) "BUT SOME" lazy azz guys who have no work ethic and know how to play the system get to beat you out of the schedule / shift bid, & The job bid because they have been there longer then you. Nothing is based on how hard you work but rather how long you have been there and for some guys (not all) this breeds a form of laziness and a feeling of "I deserve this". It takes many many years to get your senority in these types of jobs and as I said if you have the patience then go for it.. I myself did not have the ability to wait it out and I am thankful for that as Iam now pretty damn close to what a road driver makes. Good luck with you choice in jobs...


(A little side note to the Union is that when the Teamsters were recruiting us at the front gate and all the meetings they held they never told us our contract would not be the same as the ground side or that they worked feverishly with UPS Ground to obtain a new contract for "them" and have it signed into effect six months early.)
In my book that was a underhanded move....


Timberwolf

[feederfred]

Just as an aside to Snowman's informative posts, yes it does take several years to get a full time feeder or sleeper bid at UPS (Parcel). I worked 4 years in the "sort", then 7 years in package delivery (the infamous "brown beetles" that deliver to your home). Package delivery was very lucrative though, never made less than 65-70K a year, but it can be grueling, especially with all the micromanagement UPS is infamous for. I did work part-time at various jobs while awaiting a full time bid. I drove food service (US Foodservice, MBM) and delivered fuels. I was much younger at the time and it worked for me. I did 2 years on a sleeper bid from Ontario to Albuquerque then was able to bid a feeder route to Reno. Then finally finished up on a Ontario to Phoenix via Sierra Vista feeder route. It is lucrative and worth it if you are young and can see the big picture. If you wish to drive all the time, then a "regular" LTL carrier maybe more of what the OP is looking for. Good luck in your search.

[Snowman7]

See what I mean? It didnt work for Timberwolf. he didnt like it. The funny thing is he was actually working, it was the dock, but he was working. I know some guys who werent working at all, maybe 2-3 days a week, and had to quit because they couldnt hang in there financially. Those guys would have jumped all over dock work if they could get it. They just wanted to work here because they know what a good job it is down the road. I also find it odd that TW says "all you have to do is stick it out and if you have patience and the ability to stand by while some (NOT ALL workers) "BUT SOME" lazy azz guys who have no work ethic and know how to play the system get to beat you out of the schedule / shift bid, & The job bid because they have been there longer then you". They didnt play the system they simply had more seniority, period. And the union has nothing to do with it as pretty much all LTL's work on seniority. Just sounds like sour grapes to me. Seniority only makes sense when you have some, to a guy who has none the system sucks. There's another member here that just recently got hired and works with me as a road driver and he's getting 2000+ miles a week with little to no dock, and hes the bottom guy. Thats partly because of the terminal hes at, there's guys off sick, freight levels are up, and vacation season has started. Come this winter he might be begging to work the dock or he could still be busy. Again no way of knowing. But I do know several top guys at several barns who make a hundred grand a year with a set schedule and its a pretty easy friggin job. The vast majority of road drivers are still doing 75-90k. One reason its so hard to move up is 30 year guys like feederfred have it so easy they never leave LOL! Besides they still have to pay for their F350's, bass boats, and all their other toys. But in my opinion 2-5 years at the bottom of the board is a small price to pay. To each his own.

[feederfred]

Originally Posted by Snowman7

See what I mean? It didnt work for Timberwolf. he didnt like it. The funny thing is he was actually working, it was the dock, but he was working. I know some guys who werent working at all, maybe 2-3 days a week, and had to quit because they couldnt hang in there financially. Those guys would have jumped all over dock work if they could get it. They just wanted to work here because they know what a good job it is down the road. I also find it odd that TW says "all you have to do is stick it out and if you have patience and the ability to stand by while some (NOT ALL workers) "BUT SOME" lazy azz guys who have no work ethic and know how to play the system get to beat you out of the schedule / shift bid, & The job bid because they have been there longer then you". They didnt play the system they simply had more seniority, period. And the union has nothing to do with it as pretty much all LTL's work on seniority. Just sounds like sour grapes to me. Seniority only makes sense when you have some, to a guy who has none the system sucks. There's another member here that just recently got hired and works with me as a road driver and he's getting 2000+ miles a week with little to no dock, and hes the bottom guy. Thats partly because of the terminal hes at, there's guys off sick, freight levels are up, and vacation season has started. Come this winter he might be begging to work the dock or he could still be busy. Again no way of knowing. But I do know several top guys at several barns who make a hundred grand a year with a set schedule and its a pretty easy friggin job. The vast majority of road drivers are still doing 75-90k. One reason its so hard to move up is 30 year guys like feederfred have it so easy they never leave LOL! Besides they still have to pay for their F350's, bass boats, and all their other toys. But in my opinion 2-5 years at the bottom of the board is a small price to pay. To each his own.

Hey Snowman ! Take it easy on this old dude ! I'm retired...Still working at Linde part time, three more years and the alimony ends and retirement resumes !! Woo-hoo ! And by the way, I drive a Tundra and I lost the darn boat in the divorce LOL ! Take care, my friends..

[BigSlim]

Snowman, I'm about to start UPS Frieght Dedicated Truckload Division. What do you think about that division or is it the same as UPS Frieght? I will start my orientation on the 13th of this month out of the Front Royal terminal. I've been following all the details you explained here, however my concern is when do you know you're actually hired before or after the orientation and are there any disadvantages on the dedicated truckload side?