View Poll Results: Palestinian Homeland?
The creation of an internationally recognized Palestinian Homeland is inevitable 1 9.09%
The conflict will go on forever 9 81.82%
Too much for my brain.... 1 9.09%
Voters: 11. You may not vote on this poll

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  #1  
Old 09-27-2004, 01:36 PM
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Default Palestinian Homeland?

From http://encarta.msn.com/dictionary_/palestinian.html
Palestine - area in southwestern Asia between the Jordan River and the eastern coast of the Mediterranean Sea. During biblical times it was the Jewish homeland, comprising the kingdoms of Israel and Judah. The country was then successively occupied by the Romans, the Arabs, and the Ottoman Turks. In 1947 Palestine was partitioned between the new state of Israel and Jordan. Wars fought in 1948, 1967, and 1972 between Israel and the surrounding Arab states saw an increase in the land held by Israel. In 1993 an agreement was signed under which the Palestinian Arabs gained limited self-rule in territories in the Gaza Strip and on the West Bank of the Jordan River.

From http://www.fact-index.com/a/ar/arab_...ternal%20links
History
In its current form, the Arab-Israeli conflict is a modern phenomenon, which dates back to the end of the 19th Century. The conflict became a major international issue after the Ottoman Empire in 1917 lost power in the Middle East, and in various forms it goes on until this very day. The Arab-Israeli conflict was the source of at least five wars and a large number of "minor conflicts". It has also been the source of two Palestinian intifadas. The wars and intifadas are:


1948 Arab-Israeli War. Began after the declaration of the State of Israel on May 15, 1948. According to Israel, the war resulted from Arab rejection of the United Nations Partition Plan of November 1947 (in which Israel was formed out of part of Palestine). Arabs maintain they fought a defensive war, as Israel intended to expand its territory beyond that mandated by U.N. Many Palestinians fled and some were expelled by Jewish militias from their country; some surrounding Arab countries expelled their Jewish populations or they were compelled to flee due to anti-Jewish sentiment. 600,000 Palestinians and 600,000 Jews became refugees. In a few cases local Arab governments strongly encouraged Jews to stay (especially in Morocco). Jewish refugees were absorbed by Israel; Palestinians are neglected by most Arab nations which by some are blamed for the poverty and hatred prevailing in some Palestinian camps.

1956 Suez War. Began as a joint Israeli-British-French operation, which they justify as an attempt to stop attacks (see the Fedayeen) upon Israeli civilians, to abolish the Egyptian blockade of the Straits of Tiran and recapture the Suez Canal. Ended in a truce in which Israel reached its objective, but the Suez Canal was left in Egyptian (rather than British) hands. Israel agrees to withdraw from Sinai under U.S. pressure, in return for the installation of U.N. separation forces and guarantees of Israeli freedom of shipment.

Six-Day War, 1967. Began as a strike by Israel, often considered preemptive, against Egypt following the Egyptian closure of the Straits of Tiran, and withdrawal of U.N. peacekeepers from the Sinai. Israeli strikes were followed by a ground invasion into Egyptian territory leading to the capture of the Gaza Strip and the Sinai Peninsula. In spite of Israel's request to Jordan to desist from attacking it, both Jordan and Syria began to shell Israeli civilian targets. As a response, Israel captured the West Bank on June the 7th, and on June the 9th - the Golan Heights.

Yom Kippur War, 1973. Began as a simultaneous coordinated attack of Egypt and Syria in Sinai and Golan Heights, respectively. They justified it as an attempt to regain the territory lost in 1967 after Israel's attack. Although the initial attack was very heavy, Israel was not defeated, and after several days of fighting it was able to recover all the lands lost in the attack and to defeat the invading armies. The war resulted in a ceasefire at the same borders where it began.

1982 Lebanon War. Began when Israel attacked Lebanon, justified by Israel as an attempt to remove the Fatah militants led by Yasser Arafat from Southern Lebanon (where they had established during the country's civil war a semi-independent enclave used to launch terrorist attacks upon Israel). The invasion was widely criticized both in and outside Israel, especially after the Sabra and Shatila massacre and ultimately led to the death of 20,000 Lebanese. Although initially the attack succeeded and Arafat was exiled to Tunisia, Israel became entangled with various local Muslim militias (particularly the Hizballah). By 1985, Israel retreated from all Lebanese territory but a narrow stretch of land called the Israeli Security Zone. In 2000, Israeli forces left that as well; however, the Hizballah still periodically launch attacks and keep Israeli prisoners as hostages, some of whom are civilians. The two retreats have been result of political campaigns by groups such as Peace Now.

The first Intifada
An uprising of Palestinians, many of them youths, against Israeli control in the Occupied Territories. This brought a rise in the importance of Palestinian extremist groups such as Hamas and Islamic Jihad. The Israeli Defense Forces' heavy handed response was widely criticized world-wide
The al-Aqsa Intifada

Palestinian views
Palestinians feel that the Jewish state of Israel was established under conditions that were deeply unfair to them. Some do not oppose a Jewish state as such, and all Palestinians feel that it is should not be established at the expense of another people. They argue that after World War II, the world allowed a state for Jewish people in Palestine to be made without much concern for the existing Arab population. Many Palestinians were forcibly expelled from Jewish-controlled areas before, during and after the 1948 Arab-Israeli war.

Palestinians cite many reasons for the lack of support of their cause in the Western world. One such reason is racism; while stereotyping of many other groups is no longer rampant, Muslims and in particular Arabs continue to be victimized by crude attacks.

Palestinians claim that they have International law on their side. To take a few examples, UN General Assembly Resolution 194 calls for Palestinian refugees to be allowed to return. UN Security Council Resolution 242 calls for Israel to withdraw from the occupied Palestinian territories. The Fourth Geneva convention forbids an occupying power to settle seized territory. General Assembly Resolution 446 has declared that the Israeli settlements in the occupied Palestinian territories are illegal. However, there are doubts as to whether the return of refugees is compatible with the continuous existence of the state of Israel, and the preservation of a "just and lasting peace" in the region.

Palestinians point out that Israel continued to expand the settlement community in the occupied Palestinian territories throughout the Oslo peace process -- Palestinians claim this was done to make any meaningful Palestinian state impossible. The settlements are off limits to Palestinians, while any Jew in the whole world can at any time choose to settle there. In 2000 at Camp David the Palestinians were offered an independent state composed of most of Gaza and the West Bank. Led by Arafat, the Palestinians rejected this offer, claimed that this state would be a "Bantustan" (a state divided in many pieces) and walked out of the negotiations. The Israeli proposal was rejected. President Clinton and the Israelis asked the Palestinians to offer a counter-proposal, but Arafat refused and went back to the West Bank. Later, further negotiations did take place, but they were terminated by the Israeli side as Israeli government policy held that it was futile to negotiate while actually under fire.

In 2002 Saudi Arabia offered a peace plan in the New York Times, as if it were its own original idea, the UN's resolutions which call for withdrawal from the territories in addition for full recognition of Israel by the whole Arab world. This proposal was backed by the entire Arab world. The Israeli government rejected this proposal

Many Arabs deny that historical grounds can justify the existence of a Jewish nation today. They hold that events that happened thousands of years ago do not justify evicting the Palestinians from what they see as their homeland.

Some Arabs maintain that there is nothing wrong with Jewish immigration into Palestine, in itself, any more than there is with Jewish immigration into any other part of the world. But most of the Jews arriving in Palestine did so with the intention of taking it over and establishing a Jewish majority state. Most Arabs maintain that Israel's settlement policy is a violation of the Fourth Geneva Convention and constitutes a crime against international law. On their view, Israel, because of its expansion of settlements, has the lion's share of responsibility for the failure of the peace process.

(There is much more to this article)
It's such a complicated issue. Just wondering what, if any, thoughts you might have.
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Old 09-27-2004, 02:18 PM
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ok in short there never was a people called palistinans they were arabs living in Isreal. if they want a there own land have egypt or saudi give them some simple as that.
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Old 09-27-2004, 04:25 PM
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Littleman, I appreciate you taking the time to reply. (I knew this was going to be a hard post to consider.) The situation over there bothers me, and the more I delve into it the less I understand it.

Quote:
never was a people called palistinans they were arabs living in Isreal
Yea, but didn't the word "Palestine" evolve from "Philistine"? and
Quote:
During biblical times [Palestine] was the Jewish homeland, comprising the kingdoms of Israel and Judah.
BUT Isreal, as we know it today, wasn't created by the UN until 1948....
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Old 09-27-2004, 04:54 PM
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Quote:
Yea, but didn't the word "Palestine" evolve from "Philistine"?
No, the Philistines were a different people!!!

Quote:
BUT Isreal, as we know it today, wasn't created by the UN until 1948....
Before 1948 the "State" of Isreal did not exist!!! Under pressure from the US the UN reluctently granted Jews a strip of land... The Palestiniens occupied the land first but since they had no real voice the land was prime location for a group of wanderers.
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Old 09-27-2004, 05:57 PM
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When you factor in religious views and beliefs, you'll end up with a whole new set of poll options.

Touchy subject. Will pass on this one myself.
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Old 09-27-2004, 10:34 PM
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Ah c'mon Bat guy don't let me have all the fun!!!

And besides this isn't about religion it's more about Genocide!!!
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Old 09-28-2004, 03:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doctor Who
Quote:
Yea, but didn't the word "Palestine" evolve from "Philistine"?
No, the Philistines were a different people!!!

Quote:
BUT Isreal, as we know it today, wasn't created by the UN until 1948....
Before 1948 the "State" of Isreal did not exist!!! Under pressure from the US the UN reluctently granted Jews a strip of land... The Palestiniens occupied the land first but since they had no real voice the land was prime location for a group of wanderers.
-----------------------
Actually the Jews originally occupied the land long before that but were run out by various 'neighboring' countries and then Israel was occupied by the Palestinians and many others.......if you have read the Bible there are many key locations thruought Israel that are listed in both the Old and New Testament and even in the Torah...........
All the UN did was reluctantly give the land back to the ppl that owned it... very similar to the US version of the "Tribal Lands" involving Native Americans.......they were here first and rightfully owned the land but have been conquered and dwindling due to our restrictions......but the Jewish people as a whole have not had a serious dwindling in their numbers except during the Genocides by Hitler.........
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Old 09-28-2004, 06:38 AM
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well said tex, and like i said if the muslum country want to have a palistinan state they need to cough up some land egypt or saudi's they got lots of desert.
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Old 09-28-2004, 07:06 AM
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Quote:
No, the Philistines were a different people!!!
Doc, are you sure? I don't know, but all the stuff I can find indicates otherwise....

Maybe batman's right :?
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Old 09-28-2004, 09:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by littleman2
well said tex, and like i said if the muslum country want to have a palistinan state they need to cough up some land egypt or saudi's they got lots of desert.

Heck I'll admit to enjoying (most of the time) reading my history along with accepting the fact that the KJV Holy Bible is an actual collection of historical documents untampered......and anyone whom says that it is just 'mans interpretation' well so are the 'historical' books that are in our classroom.........I'll proudly admit I'm a Christian Trucker.....

I have no shame in him so that one day He'll have no shame in me
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