This IS classic Rev/Hobo argument material!

Doesn't line 4 activity count against your 70 hrs though? I think it does. Once the 70 is reached, a driver cannot log on line 3 or 4 until after the 34 hr reset.
I know a few drivers who have side jobs, and they are required to log that as on duty/not driving, even though it may be a non-driving job.

Yes, I think the Rev is right though about being on line 4 for as long as you want, but after the 70 hrs is up, thats it. Of course, a driver cannot continue to drive or be on duty/not driving after the 11/14 hr reg is reached.

As far as a driver being OOS, I think that a driver cannot perform ANY function of line 3 or 4 until the OOS order is satisfied.

Ok guys, continue the argument! I love it!

Nope! Rev is right! Did I say that....lol and yes line 4 does count against your 70!
Yes the driver put OOS can still be on line 4 for as long as he wants, and even repair his truck if he so wishes, but must watch his hrs and adjust his rest or off duty to comply with the law!!!!!!
You can be on line 4 for 90 hrs if you want, but you better not drive until you have satisfied a 34 hr reset!

Incorrect. The 11 hour, 14 hour and 70 hour clock is only to determine if (and for how long) you can drive. The FMCSA has no regulations regarding how long you can be on line 4. They only have regulations on when (and for how long) you can be on line 3. The only regulations the FMCSA has regarding line 4 are what activities count as line 4 time.

And 34 hour resets are never mandatory.

Ya, but if you were on line 4 for 90 hrs, a reset would be needed....lol

Yes, there is a point when a 34 hour reset is the shortest way to gain back hours. I can however, think of a scenario where you could gain enough hours to drive if you had 90 hours on the clock without doing a 34 hour reset. But it depends how the hours are spread out.

Think he was talking about 90 hours on line 4 - IN A ROW.

But we STILL haven't cleared up the MAIN POINT IN CONTENTION HERE - that being, just what constitutes OPERATING A CMV - which we all KNOW to mean - DRIVING. The regs don't say anything about doing any other work NOT on line 3. But again, you would come OFF an OOS, until you've logged 10 off (or gained back hours in the case of a 70). In the case of a 70, you could be off OOS at midnight - depending on how many hours you've gained. You COULD be put OOS for a 70 at 11:30PM, and be out the door in a 1/2 hour.

We could muddy the waters a bit, say, by looking at a situation where the Tractor is the O/O's personal conveyance.

He is put out of service for an 11/14 hour violation, that can ONLY BE RESOLVED by 10 hours OFF DUTY (line 2 for 8 + line 1 for 2 OR line 2 for 10). If he LEAVES HIS TRAILER at the coop, and drives off to Chuck-E-Cheese for a pizza in his tractor - he is no longer "under load" he is OFF DUTY and using the Tractor as a POV, he CAN LOG on Line 1 - go putz around for 10 hours, go back and get his trailer and have SATISFIED his OOS. In this case, the tractor would NOT BE OPERATED as a CMV, he is not UNDER LOAD or DISPATCH and has no responsibility to his employer (or himself is he is under his own authority). He could lay in his sleeper in the Walmart parking lot drinking BEER for 6 hours, nap for 4 and be good to go. Or pull off the coop without his box and go get a motel room. Wouldn't THAT P.O. the DOT guy? Pull around the coop, drop your box, and take off for 10 hours...

Rick

That would be a violation of the OOS order. The regs specifically address this:

Question 2: May a driver operating a CMV under a lease arrangement with a motor carrier, after being placed out of service for an hours of service violation, cancel the lease and continue to operate the vehicle as a private personal conveyance?

Guidance: No. Cancellation of a lease does not relieve the driver of the responsibility of complying with the out of service order which prohibits the driver from operating a CMV.

The CMV doesn't cease to be a CMV just because it is being used as personal conveyance.

Interesting, since you CAN operate a CMV as a personal conveyance and be on Line 1.

That specific instance (canceling a lease-on agreement) is weird unto itself. According to that guidance - would he be able to cancel the lease, fulfill whatever requirements the OOS calls for (and again, the guidance didn't say whether it was a 11/14 or 70 hour violation), and THEN use the vehicle as a personal conveyance. These regs are still arbitrary and vague - as a lease/op upon canceling the lease would be under an obligation to the carrier to return the vehicle. And OWNER, that was leased-on, would only be obligated to return the Qualcomm and any other "company issued equipment". After the OOS is satisfied, the truck still BELONGS TO the O/O, and as long as he has the proper Non-Trucking-Liability and whatever other insurance is required to operate Bobtail, he can use the tractor as a personal conveyance to his hearts content - all on line 1.

Rick

Yes, although what purpose would cancelling the lease at the scale house be then?

The point wasn't about canceling the lease. The point was about putting the driver in a situation where he could legally log the truck AND trailer on line 1 as personal conveyance by becoming "not for hire." But the FMCSA made it clear that the CMV is still a CMV even when being used as personal conveyance (which is why you need a CDL to operate it no matter what), so dropping the trailer and taking off with the truck would be a violation of the OOS order, as the OOS order applies to operating a CMV.

Well, obviously I'm not gonna change anyone's (Golfhobo) opinion here with my argument, but I think it's pretty obvious that the rule and it's penalty (OOS) is put into place to protect the motoring public by not allowing a unsafe driver (in their view) back in operation (driving) of a CMV until his off duty requirements are met. No where imo does that have anything to do with non driving work related duties. So to me the driver could spend as much time as needed at the customer doing anything he wants, including unloading the trailer by hand if he so chooses for 12 hrs. before satisfing his sleeper berth/off duty time.


Although, what are the regs for operating a CMV on private property? Could the driver pull out of the dock without violating any rules? Could a non CDL driver move the truck out of the dock for him?