How random is random
 

Just wondering how random the "pee in a cup" really is? As I have been popped for a 3rd time now in about 1 1/2 years. Not to mention this last week was particularly a pain in the butt. In between routes my boss caught me and said come talk to me when you get back from 2nd Rt. So, I return, fuel truck and reefer, put them away, etc. Go in go to bathroom and wash hands before seeing boss and of course all she has to say is we need a urine sample. So I get to sit in breakroom drinking water for two hours to accomplish this goal. Folks, I have been in government jobs since I was in high school. I worked the family farm from a very young age due to father in active military. I ain't never touched anything ever. The occasional beer and Jack Daniels w/ Cherry Coke is it. (Oh, its not normal to get a Christmas card from Bud and Jack... I didn't know.) Ok, occasional now almost rare. But in the younger days!!!!!

I worked localy for a dirt hauler here in Minnesota for about 4 years. The managers brother was also an O/O there. In the 4 years, I was never called in for a random but the GM's brother was called in every 4-6 months withou fail. It's supposed to be a random selection buy a computer program but I thing the computer has some preferences. Maybe we have made them think too much like people.

Every month every person's name goes in the proverbial hat to get drug tested regardless if you were tested the month before or not so you have the same chance of being tested next month as you did this month. The only time you can be sure of not being randomly tested is if you tested positive, went through a SAPS program and got VERY lucky and got another chance. Then you can be pretty sure for a long time you are going to be peeing into a cup on a frequent basis.

I once got popped 3 months in row and have went a couple of years and never had my "number" come up. Because of the chances of being selected I always made sure to hold off going to the restroom, if at all possible, anytime I got a message from the office saying to see them ASAP.

It is random, in most cases. I worked for one company where the safety director would stroll out in the yard at some point during the day, see who was in, and they would be told to report to med for a random.

Another company informed me that I had a random right after I loaded a load of steel, half way across the country. I complained about the safety factor in that one, but did not refuse to take it. Nowhere to drop the trailer, and no parking on the street at the facility... They were not the least bit happy about loaded 18 wheels parked on the thin blacktop of their lot, and DID let the company know about it. It meant driving about 9 miles through town in rush hour traffic, which vastly increases the liability factor. Especially, considering that once the computer picked my name, they had 30 days in which they could have gotten me into any one of 3 terminals and given me a company vehicle to get to a testing facility. I, personally, talked to the head of safety on that one, and he agreed that it was very bad planning. But NEVER REFUSE a test.

I don't know if I am handled differently because I go home everyday. In that they try and catch me walking thru terminal at the last second or what. Time before this one I was headed to restroom and my terminal manager comes yelling thru the breakroom and beating on the bathroom door dont go I need to give you a test. This was my "notice" I guess. Both last times as I am waiting for my manager to go with me, someone has come up behind me and she has told them.... I see you got the message I sent to your truck about the random. All I want is a message, it does not need to be top secret. Just rubs me strange. Thanks for the input.

How the company determines the randomness and notification is up to the company. They just have to prove that their method is really a randomn choice.

Since, I've been in trucking only a couple of years and haven't had the pleasure yet. When I was in IT (27 years) that was a different story. Back then the algorithm included things like frequency of absences, frequency of accidents, position safety rating, etc etc etc.

Having done some computer programing, using random number generators, they can pick the same number frequently for a period and then move off someplace else and not use that number for a while.

I used to get random tested for a company frequently. and then not for a long time. With the company I am with now I was rarely random tested, then all of a sudden tested three times in a year, and haven't been tested now for a year and a half.

There is no logic to it, it is random.:confused:

I am not denying that a company could use the random generator and then manipulate the results to something else, only pointing out random generators work out weird sometimes.:tears:

Being a former professional programmer, I will explain computers and random numbers :). No computer is capable of a TRUE random number. Most computers use what is called a seed. The seed is based usually on milliseconds, so time is used to create a random number. If you know exactly how a specific CPU handles generating random numbers, you can get the same exact random number to generate every time by knowing the seed factor. This said, random numbers generated by a computer can be figured out by an algorithm, and do have a repeating pattern. Generally in programming if you really want a good random number, you have to create a bunch of them using random seeds, then randomly pick one of the randomly generated numbers, and repeat the process a few times :).

It would be easier just to put all employee's names in a hat and DRAW one. Just make sure that it isn't always at the same time of day! ;)

In the last 5 years...I think I've had 2.
On the other hand, one of our daytime drivers has a random everytime he turns around.

I have my theory, and another driver's theory. It's 80% random, 20% induced. Kinda like the 80/20 rule of engineering and whatnot.

Let me tell you this. If they know you WILL pass, expect a random and good runs (other driver's theory).

If they want you fired, I plead the 5th.

leased to schneider for 5years(minus 6months) never had a random drug test........ But the past 3months ive had to take 2randoms.......

I had them every 3 months or so (random) in our company and all that changed when i applied for fast card and was denied for the same by us authorities with no explanation (cbsa on the other hand had done a back ground check and found everything ok and told me that us will tell me why i was denied but that is another story ..)
Since then i was put on some special covert program and every time i would cross border in my truck or pvt. vehicle i would be questioned at the border like a criminal my vehicle was searched with K9 units etc. and no sooner i would pull up in my yard after every trip i had standing instructions to go for a piss test before i could head out again...... it all went away after about 6 months or so......

1. The DOT regs say that the percentage of drivers being randomly selected can be as low as 10% annually for carriers with lower than average positive results, and up to 50% annually for carriers with higher positive rates. If your carrier is in that 50% bracket, it wouldn't be that unusual to be tested 3 or more times in 2 years.

2. your employer may have a policy that triggers a Probable Cause test that you are unaware of. One example would be a complaint from a motorist. There are civilians who have nothing better to do than call in and complain about truckers. You may have been driving too slow on a grade, or swerved slightly on curve, any of a number of things someone observing doesn't like.

It's different from company to company.

One company I worked with tested me at the beginning and that was it.

Another tested me once a month for 6 months. I think the deal with that is that the safety guy knew I would pass, so once a month it's a guarantee passing grade. Some of the others guys ask me about it, and I was straight up with them..."With me, it's a guarantee passing score with the state...with you, maybe not so lucky??" He didn't like that much...

When I work a job, I just plan on doing a test once a month while I'm there. If they choose someone else, that's the way it is.

Of course, I live a boring life...hell, it's been awhile since I had a beer....:thumbsup::thumbsup:

If the DOT program is anything like the FAA program, there is a chain of custody and the program is supposed to be confidential.

Assuming everyone's name goes into the hat each time they look for a victim, your chances to get picked are the same each time. It doesn't matter what has happened in the past.

Think about 10 coin flips in a row. Each time the coin gets flipped it has a 1/2 chance of coming up heads. On the sixth flip it doesn't matter if the coin came up heads 5 times in a row, the coin has no "memory" of the past and on the sixth flip the chances of heads are 1/2. That is not to say that the chances of getting 6 heads in a row is 1/2, only that on any given flip the chances of heads are 1/2.

Of course that doesn't mean your company won't put a little bit of "memory" or preference into the selection so the fun gets spread out a bit or certain people are more likely to be picked but they can still call it random.

well, i don;t know how random it is but i was tested 4 times in 3 months and i dont drink ,smoke r do drugs,but i think it was because me and my dm had issues and our safety manager were buddies, and that was just the icing .

If you DON'T HAVE ANYTHING TO WORRY ABOUT - then it's just a PITA. WHO CARES what random is?

If you DO have someone to worry about - then you need to address the ISSUE OF YOUR PROBLEM, not complain about being "singled out".

I've seen some debate going on other boards, regarding "observed drops" for people who've refused or tested positive. Folks whining about their "right to privacy" being violated.

WE ALL KNOW that driving a CMV requires us to drug test. Regardless how great I thought I drove "under the influence" back in the day - I would NOT WANT someone operating 80,000 lbs. of rolling death while loaded.

As long as they're not taking the cost out of my PAYCHECK, I'll whip out my schlong in front of the whole room and drop. At over a decade sober, I'M NOT WORRIED. If they know this, and drop me all the time to skew their numbers - hey, I'm a team player - WTF do I CARE?

Rick

I was with my last company for 2 years. I took the pre-hire drug test, got hired 2 days later. When I came in to pick up the truck for my first trip, I was told to go in for a drug test because the computer picked me. When I walked into the same clinic and had the same nurse giving me the test, she looked at me really funny when she saw the same name. But, it didn't bother me in the least - my company paid $50 for an "inconvenience fee" for random drug tests. Hell, I told them to pick me weekly.

Yep, probability is a funny thing. In 12 years of driving, I've never been picked for a random pee test. My wife starts running with me under our own authority and the compliance consortium we belong to randoms her almost immediately. I still as of yet have never been random tested as a driver.

When I was in the Army, I got hit three 3 times in a row and I was never one of the partiers… go figure.

Company I worked for for about 10 years used to test me every other month or so. I was the dedicated random I guess. My boss would tell be before I left to "drink a couple of cokes before you get to the yard in WI tomarrow". I didn't mind. I got to drive the Vice-Pres's car to the collection sight. Since then I havn't been tested for about 4 years.

Last time I was called in for a random pee test, the MRO called me back three days later and told me I was PREGNANT!!
I went to see the doctor, then he ran some tests, and told me that I was pregnant, but the baby wasn't really mine after all!!

:lol: :cry:

I have known of some people who seem to get selected more than others. A carrier can also have a driver more frequently checked if they suspect drug or alcohol use. It is supposed to be completely random, but there must be a formula they use.

I've been tested three times in less than a year.

I haven't been picked in 2 years.

Well you don't have to brag about it. :D

My brother got stung by a bee a month ago, when he went to the doc, they had insurance telling them that a random needed to be done as part of workers comp. Guess they wanted to make sure my brother wasn't high or drunk when he ran into the backside of that bee. He didn't have to do it, company was po'ed about it and called insurance, told them to check the files they don't do random's as a company and weren't required per the insurance they had.

I get picked every 2 years, when it comes time for my med card to be renewed. Within 30 days of it being due, I can be sent to the doc at anytime so yeah, it's kinda random. :-P Not that it bothers me, don't do that junk anyways.

Sober/Clean close to a decade - they can "random" me every month if they want (as long as I'm not PAYING for it). Every time I go in, I offer to drop trou and fill the cup ON THE SPOT in front of everyone present (they DON'T call me SickRick for nothing you know).

I'm the guy that goes AROUND THE BLOCK to go through the DUI checkpoint OVER AND OVER AGAIN - just because I CAN!

Rick