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Originally Posted by Rev.Vassago
The personal conveyance exception does not apply for drivers sitting in their trucks eating, and it does not apply to a laden CMV. Ever.
I have to wonder how the personal conveyance exception would apply to a driver sitting in their truck while drinking alcoholic beverages? Never mind.........that would probably be outside of the scope, or the spirit of the regulation anyways. 8) According to Golfhobo, drinking in a CMV is not a problem. I just hope that the same new drivers that golfhobo babbled on about regarding my posting style, didn't take heed of his misinformed bellowing about alcohol use and CMV operation/responsibility. These newbies either: 1. Were turned off regarding my anti-OTR blasts. Or 2. Were possible victims of Golfhobo's dangerous misguidance. I don't even want to consider the consequences. Not even. I dunno. Who really is the bad guy here? |
Originally Posted by belpre122
I dunno. Who really is the bad guy here? |
I was delivering at Kokomo, Indiana this morning at about 2AM. A "crew" rolled up and asked me for directions. I obliged. They said thanks, and then OFFERED ME A BEER. I politely refused.
I was, however, highly offended by this. But, then I thought about it. According to the spirit of Golfhobo's preachings. If I were to go up to Line 1, drink the beer and then return to Lines 3 or 4, I should be just fine. If I were worried about my BAC, I could have just sat there for an hour or so until I had an acceptable BAC. Nothing like some Line 5 time golfhobo! Or, if I were to "chug" the beer, could I just flag it and not bother with Line 5 at all? I'm so glad that we have gotten away from frivolous topics on CAD and can now get down to what the "new drivers" come here to learn. Thanks golfhobo, you're a lifesaver! |
Originally Posted by Myth_Buster
myth_buster custody has no relation to where a person is geographically in this instance. it applies more to responsibility. Custody is defined as. A keeping or guarding; care, watch, inspection, for keeping, preservation, or security. the drivers company has relieved him of all this by giving him a ROD card. For that time period his company has relieved him of ALL responsibility. §390.3 General Applicability Question 6: How does one distinguish between intra- and interstate commerce for the purposes of applicability of the FMCSRs? Guidance: Interstate commerce is determined by the essential character of the movement, manifested by the shipper's fixed and persistent intent at the time of shipment, and is ascertained from all of the facts and circumstances surrounding the transportation. When the intent of the transportation being performed is interstate in nature, even when the route is within the boundaries of a single State, the driver and CMV are subject to the FMCSRs. Question 13: A motor carrier dispatches an empty CMV from State A into adjoining State B in order to transport cargo or passengers between two points in State B, and then to return empty to State A. Does the transportation of cargo or passengers within State B constitute interstate commerce? Guidance: Yes. The courts and the ICC developed a test that clarifies the legal status of intrastate portions of interstate trips. The character of the intrastate leg depends on the shipper's fixed and persistent intent when the transportation began. The fixed and persistent intent in this case was to move property--the vehicle itself--across State lines and between two points in State B where it was used to haul cargo or passengers. The transportation within State B, therefore, constitutes interstate commerce. In some cases the motor carrier may be the shipper. A driver who departs a terminal empty in route to the first pick-up is in commerce, same would apply to a driver who unloaded and is destined for a new load. The carrier may provide the driver with written permission to go off-duty for lunch; however, the driver would have to meet the requirements, i.e. exit the vehicle to enjoy the off-duty status. The rules regarding empty trucks moving to acquire freight and constituting the continuation of interstate commerce dates back to at least 1958: "Merchandising by motortruck, whether actual or pretended, over long distances is increasing to such an extent that it is becoming a major factor in the transportation of freight between distant points. Manufacturers and mercantile establishments, which deliver in their own trucks articles which they manufacture or sell, are increasingly purchasing merchandise at or near their point of delivery and transporting such articles to their own terminal for sale to others. Such transportation is performed for the purpose of receiving compensation for the otherwise empty return of their trucks. Sometimes the [377 U.S. 311, 318] purchase and sale is a bona fide merchandising venture. In other cases, arrangements are made with the consignee of such merchandise for the `buy-and-sell' arrangement in order that the consignee may receive transportation at a reduced cost." Compare H. R. Rep. No. 1922, 85th Cong., 2d Sess., 18 (1958). The fact the movement of the vehicle is intended to benefit the motor carrier constitutes commerce. The fact is discussed in other court cases: On April 20, 2000, Singh completed an interstate hauling operation for BIR with his Tractor. Four days later, on April 24, 2000, he hired a third party to drive the Tractor and its empty trailer from Harrisburg, Pennsylvania, to a Kenworth truck dealership in Chester, Pennsylvania, in order to attempt a sale or trade-in for a new tractor. Although BIR was made aware of the plan to go to the dealership, it is undisputed BIR did not dispatch the Tractor. In the event a hauling load from BIR became available in the Chester area, however, Singh directed his driver to make the trip with an empty trailer attached. En route to the dealership, Singh's truck collided with a vehicle owned and driven by Espenshade. As a result of the accident, Espenshade filed a lawsuit in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, against all potential tortfeasors. Underwriters expressly refused either to defend the defendants or to indemnify Canal in the state action on the ground that the use of the Tractor on the day of the accident did not fall under the provisions of its non-trucking liability policy. Canal, on the other hand, defended and indemnified Singh, his driver, and BIR in the lawsuit. Ultimately, Canal settled the Espenshade suit, agreeing to pay $58,500 compensation in exchange for full liability releases for all three defendants. It is undisputed that Canal incurred an additional $27,459 in litigation expenses to resolve the matter, resulting in a total indemnification and defense cost of $85,959. Canal filed a declaratory action pursuant to 28 U.S.C. § 2201 in the Eastern District of Pennsylvania seeking indemnification from Underwriters for the monies Canal spent defending and insuring the defendants in the Espenshade lawsuit. Canal Ins. Co. v. Underwriters at Lloyd's London, 333 F.Supp.2d 352 (E.D.Pa.2004). Subsequent to discovery, the parties filed cross-motions for summary judgment. Id. at 352. The District Court determined that Singh's act of hiring an employee to drive his Tractor to a dealership in order to trade the vehicle or otherwise attempt a sale was an activity promoting the "business purposes of the [i]nsured" under the terms of Underwriters' business use exclusion. Id. at 355-56. As a result, the Court concluded that coverage was properly denied by Underwriters. Id. at 357. Judgment was entered granting Underwriters' motion for summary judgment and denying Canal's cross-motion for summary judgment. This appeal followed. [FN1] Case law on several fronts broadly define commerce, thereby severely narrowing the occasions when a driver “is relieved of all responsibility.” If the driver tried to exit the vehicle, slipped and fell there would be a workman’s comp claim. The issue of a driver logging off-duty is a topic of many court cases and most court cases narrow the driver’s off-duty time while in and around CMVs. The FMCSR is based on law, the guidance used to enforce the federal regulations is documented in Supreme Court decisions, not a driver's or motor carrier's interpretation. Attorneys have prepared 100 page briefs regarding the use of the word "if" when used in a regulation. As mentioned earlier, the lunch break counts toward the 14 hour rule, the only item left to be determined is whether the time counts toward the 60/70 hour rule. It is the investigator's responsibility to prove the case, s=using case law and interpretations allows an investigator to show precendence of their findings and how the regulation was previous interpreted by the courts. Be safe. |
Originally Posted by got mud?
none of these cases prove that you cannot eat your lunch in your truck and log it off duty. they actually have nothing to do with the argument. On duty time shall include: (4) All time, other than driving time, in or upon any commercial motor vehicle except time spent resting in a sleeper berth; |
Originally Posted by Rev.Vassago
Originally Posted by got mud?
none of these cases prove that you cannot eat your lunch in your truck and log it off duty. they actually have nothing to do with the argument. On duty time shall include: (4) All time, other than driving time, in or upon any commercial motor vehicle except time spent resting in a sleeper berth; On duty time means all time from the time a driver begins to work or is required to be in readiness to work until the time the driver is relieved from work and all responsibility for performing work. On duty time shall include: the driver is released from all his duties. he is free to do what he pleases. he can lay on the ground under the truck stand next to the door and pick his nose, walk to the store. play hopscotch or sit in his seat and eat his lunch. either way he is off duty :roll: |
Originally Posted by got mud?
what part of the regulation are you not understanding? On duty time means all time from the time a driver begins to work or is required to be in readiness to work until the time the driver is relieved from work and all responsibility for performing work. On duty time shall include: the driver is released from all his duties. he is free to do what he pleases. he can lay on the ground under the truck stand next to the door and pick his nose, walk to the store. play hopscotch or sit in his seat and eat his lunch. either way he is off duty :roll: Let me reiterate exactly what Mike M stated. I'll use big letters, since you seem to like them: A MOTOR CARRIER CANNOT SUPERSEDE THE FMCSA REGULATIONS. |
Originally Posted by Rev.Vassago
Originally Posted by got mud?
On duty time means all time from the time a driver begins to work or is required to be in readiness to work until the time the driver is relieved from work and all responsibility for performing work. On duty time shall include:
(1) All time at a plant, terminal, facility, or other property of a motor carrier or shipper, or on any public property, waiting to be dispatched, unless the driver has been relieved from duty by the motor carrier; (2) All time inspecting, servicing, or conditioning any commercial motor vehicle at any time; (3) All driving time as defined in the term driving time; (4) All time, other than driving time, in or upon any commercial motor vehicle except time spent resting in a sleeper berth; (5) All time loading or unloading a commercial motor vehicle, supervising, or assisting in the loading or unloading, attending a commercial motor vehicle being loaded or unloaded, remaining in readiness to operate the commercial motor vehicle, or in giving or receiving receipts for shipments loaded or unloaded; (6) All time repairing, obtaining assistance, or remaining in attendance upon a disabled commercial motor vehicle; (7) All time spent providing a breath sample or urine specimen, including travel time to and from the collection site, in order to comply with the random, reasonable suspicion, post-accident, or follow-up testing required by part 382 of this subchapter when directed by a motor carrier. (8 ) Performing any other work in the capacity, employ, or service of a motor carrier; and (9) Performing any compensated work for a person who is not a motor carrier. :roll: the way you guys are reading this then anytime you sit in the front seat and not in the sleeper you would have to go back to on duty status. so every driver you have ever seen in a truck stop smoking a cig or enjoying a cup of coffee not in the sleeper would be in violation of their ten hour break. |
Originally Posted by Rev.Vassago
Originally Posted by got mud?
what part of the regulation are you not understanding? On duty time means all time from the time a driver begins to work or is required to be in readiness to work until the time the driver is relieved from work and all responsibility for performing work. On duty time shall include: the driver is released from all his duties. he is free to do what he pleases. he can lay on the ground under the truck stand next to the door and pick his nose, walk to the store. play hopscotch or sit in his seat and eat his lunch. either way he is off duty :roll: Let me reiterate exactly what Mike M stated. I'll use big letters, since you seem to like them: A MOTOR CARRIER CANNOT SUPERSEDE THE FMCSA REGULATIONS. once you are not working or required to work you are off duty. that exception trumps all other exceptions. its very simple, my six year old daughter can understand that. why can't you? |
Originally Posted by got mud?
once you are not working or required to work you are off duty. that exception trumps all other exceptions. its very simple, my six year old daughter can understand that. why can't you? |
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