CB radio
 

so i was on the ten meter band the other day talking to a guy in denver, i was ontop of the mountains in PA. I thought it was pretty cool, just wanted to share.

Oh lord.... :roll:

Trolling for RadioRay I suppose.

you caught me, sorry.

your 10 meter must be weak. I live in PA and i was talkin to people over seas. :wink:

NA NA BOO BOO! This fish didn't bite! :D

Troll, troll, troll yer boat

Gently down the stream!

Merrily merrily, merrily,

Life's but a dream!


"Ya can't regulate STOOPID!" ( Riley Hollingsworth, FCC Special Counsel for Amateur Enforcement!) :D :D :D

Holly crap he does have a sense of humor. LMAO

Rocky Top Tennessee :P

ok, no more of that. sorry r.r. i had to try. but just don't call me stupid, or i will get very angry...you don't wanna see me angry do ya??

I didn't! :D It is a direct quote from R Hollingsworth concerning people who are determined to ignore laws regarding radio. IOW, people get told NOT to tread on licensed spectrum and they STILL do it. Hence, the comment from one of the actual regulators! :D

I "knew" you weren't ON 10 Meters, and I took it as an obvious troll. The quote from RH was just a little "dig" because I knew you were trying to get a rise out of RadioRay. :D I was being a smart aleck, but all in good fun. :wink:

RR

what is a troll as it pertains to this website? some kind of insult?

Yes. :|

It's not exactly an insult. It's when someone tries to elicit a reaction on a forum by posting something he thinks will CAUSE such a reaction, preferably an adverse one. It's like "baiting" someone or "jerking his chain", or teasing somebody about something the "troll-ER" thinks his opponent is sensitive to. Like somebody that's bald headed and has a bad comb-over and folks tease him about it. :D

I knew a guy at work who was NEVER without his hat! :D In the morning in the locker room, he always had a baseball cap on. When it was time to put on his hard hat---SWISH!!! :D That plastic hat was on in a flash! In the evening, same thing. SWOOOSH! His ball cap was back on in one quick sleight of hand so you couldn't (in his mind) see his receding hairline. Well, one afternoon, one of the boys positioned himself behind "Steve" at his locker, and when "steve" went to put on his cap, the other boy snatched it out of his hand so his comb-over that went from one ear to the other was exposed in all its glory! Almost caused a fight! :o Horseplay almost got out of hand because "steve" was hyper-sensitive to his baldness. He had started going bald when he was 17. My hair didn't turn LOOSE, but it SURE is turning gray in a hurry!!!! LMAO! :D

RR

Lost me..........

a direct quote that was stolen from Ron White. " you cant fix stupid" tell them to stop stealing quotes and then we will stop stealing radio signals.. MAYBE

I KNEW you could talk about something other than radios!!!

28.415 was rockin and rollin around D.C. this afternoon. At least, until my 1200 watts of echo and 'roger fart' got in there. Then, conditions must have changed as the band became curiously quiet. Oh well, maybe tomorrow. Gotta love this Ranger radio.

Well, I figure this is another troll post, but for the sake of conversation, I'll go for it. Bandit doesn't say if he has the license that permits for use of 10 Meters. And, of course, 28.415 is inside that band and part of the single sideband allocation (voice). And, of course, that would be UPPER sideband. If licensed, no harm; have at it.

If not, then despite the "BIG, BAD CB REDDIO" attitude, the defiance, the disregard for rules, the disrespect for that which is assigned to others. one has to wonder if such people, particularly in the trucking industry, ever wonder WHY the public has a less than stellar impression of the profession? Truckers gripe about "stupid 4-wheelers", chafe at descriptions of drivers as uncouth, long-haired "hippy-looking" miscreants, wonder why people don't fully respect drivers. And this same thing carries thru when it comes to the use of radios. It is the SAME attitude; the bully, the "I've got this here HUGE vehicle that I can run over you with and, therefore, I have a "right" to tawk on them thar channels and you cain't stop me! The drivers make fun of the hams , and the hams make high fun of "your" so-called "SWR'sssssssssss'
and ask "how many SWR'szzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz are there in ONE feedline"? And "why do they think that they MUST have 18 feet of coax even if they don't NEED it :D to get to the radio'? The drivers and CB fellows talk about how ham radio is "dying" when it is actually UP in numbers if "numbers" are the only criteria, and all hams are "old" as if THEY will NEVER become 56 years old. They make high fun of those "old" hams who don't WANT drivers yapping on 10 Meters, and the hams make fun of CB calling it "the chicken band", the 'children's band" and other names. The drivers say that hams only talk about their aches and pains or "boring" things like the efficiency of a circuit; the hams mock the CBers and their often hick accent (put-on?) 'Tan fer thar, ah knows whutcha mean thar, shore do thar, ah gar-an-tol'je thar, mercy sakes, 'live, yore treetop tall and a-blowin' smoke, we down , we done, we gone...................SQEEEEEEEEEEK! :D :D The cb boys go down to Joe's Truck Stop and CB Hack Shops, throw down their money for illegal "
peak and "tune(?)" jobs, illegal 10 Meter radios, amplifiers, "extree" channels and tell the whole world, 'Ah am the biggest thing (truck) and the baddest reddio station, and ah'm gonna go on them thar channels cuz I am just soooooooooooo BAD and ah got them spay-shul 'rah'ts to tawk. Ah don't need no license. And the LICENSED, LEGITIMATE users of those frequencies object-----How DARE they call into question my criminal activities? THEY see such "radio operators" as uncouth, disrespectful, outlaws, worthy of contempt. These people did NOTHING to actually EARN the privilege of having "extree channels". They went out and bought an illegal "souped up" radio, they depend on some hack that likely is NOT a electronics-degreed professional, they believe that there are such a thing as "SWR's(sssssssssss plural)"and EVERY radio must have 18 feet of coax. They are APPLIANCE operators--same as anyone who goes to Circuit City and buys a TV!

Now all this SOUNDS like a blanket condemnation of ALL drivers and CB operators. It is not. It is only supposed to get even the most outlaw operator to see the OTHER side of the issue and why the hams (most of them) see the activities of some of the outlaw drivers/cbers as so utterly disdainful! For one thing, may of those older hams that the outlaw types make fun of actually BUILD their own equipment, particularly antennas. That curious-looking antenna that just passed you that you can't figure out could have been built by the ham himself. He also often can recognize and diagnose many problems and fix them himself rather than relying on some hack shop out back of the truck stop! 8) The outlaw simply buys a "10K" and expects someone else to set it up for him. The ham can take some copper tubing and make his OWN "10K" for pennies!
The outlaw operator never HAD to do ANYTHING for his ability to talk, nor does he know (in most cases) doodly squat about radio, so his attitude is simply one of "Hey, I bought this radio an' I kin tawk on it if I want to!!"
The licensed ham who had to study for his privileges, take tests, burn the midnight oil finds the presence of outlaws and unlicensed interlopers unfair and just plain WRONG! Is it any wonder the hams take umbrage when they find unauthorized operators on their frequencies?

To the casual, undisciplined CBer, being on 28.415 might be "funny". To the ham who WORKED for the privilege of being there, it isn't at all amusing, and it is why, when they DO find truckers operating there, they will not hesitate to drop a dime on you! That's just the way it is!


RR

damn ray. no disrespect but using something that is not theirs. as you say a cb'r using the 10 meters, we say an amatuer radio guy using the truck drivers forums. if you look at it like that its kinda the pot calling the kettle black isn't it???? by the way, why on earth do you let us all bother you so? and when you type the accents to make us all sound like dumb rednecks as your sterotypes of truckdrivers kinda pisses me off!!!

Well. :D Didn't you guys post the "troll" posts to piss ME off??? :D :D :D Y'all pulled MY leg, so I yanked back harder! :P LMAO!
Did I "gitcha" goat? :wink:



RR

Because radio waves are tuned wavelengths of energy, we have to take into account the coax cable length. A typical 11-meter signal has a basic wavelength of 36 feet/wave. "Tuning" the coax for the exact full wavelength tends to throw off the SWR meter by not allowing any standing waves to return to the meter. Excess RF on the coax has been given an ideal medium by which to "hide" electrically from your SWR meter. That is not to say that the excess RF is not returning to the radio, you just can't see it on your meter.

What we want to do is create an environment where any excess RF (standing waves) are rendered as visible as possible to the meter. This is effectively done by using multiples of the 1/2-wavelength of the radiated signal. One half wave for the 11-meter band is 18 feet. :shock: :shock: However, this is not the length that you will cut your coax. There is another factor that affects the length. This is Velocity Factor. The velocity factor is basically a term for how fast the signal moves through the coax. This factor affects the overall electrical performance of the coax and thus needs to be accounted for when determining the true half wave length

Yeah, most people read it in a cb repair book somewhere.

But, what do I know? I'm just a truck driver.

Yes, Ray, I am a licensed Ham and I just like a good pissin match. The 2 radios I run in my truck, however, are FCC illegal. I have a Superstar 3900 and a Ranger 2950. I like them very much, as they have frequency range I desire for mobile. The FT1100 is just too big for the dash.

The radios are not illegal so long as you use them in the amateur service.
They are illegal to be used ON CB, used as "dual-service' for both CB and ham, or used by unlicensed persons.

Now the coax length thing is STILL horse hockey. Here is a simple way to PROVE it----AND as a licensed ham, you will understand where I am coming from better than those who work ONLY with CB radio. They have been told this myth from time immemorial, and it is still just that: a myth.

SO! Here goes. I build AND run on my vehicle the screwdriver antenna which, of course, covers 80-10 Meters and, thru the auspices of harmonic tuning, 6 Meters (tho it does not do this as well as a dedicated 6 Meter antenna. Now. Antenna theory is antenna theory, and that means what is good for the goose is also good for the gander! That means that IF I must have the CB "gospel" of 18 feet for 27 MHZ (Or some smaller multiple thereof) of coax, then I must also have a "certain" length of coax for 3.9 MHZ. Assuming that we are using one HALF wave antennas, then
using that CB "gospel" myth, it comes out to 17.333333333333 out to infinity. Or 18 feet. At 3.9 MHZ, it is over 120 feet! :shock: Now, it gets complicated! Since the screwdriver covers ALL HF bands from 1.8 to 30 MHZ (plus 6 Meters) we have to, again, according to the coax length myth, have about TEN lengths of coax in the vehicle, EACH one ranging from that 120 feet (80M), 64 feet for 40 Meters (7.2 MHZ), then 32 feet for 20 Meters-----then so on and so and so on. QUESTION: WHERE can I put TEN different feedlines, EACH cut at a specific length, some as long as 120 FEET for a total of over 300 feet!!!!! :D MY GOSH, man! WHERE can I stash 300 feet of coax in an S-10 truck?

Yet, I work ALL bands from 3.6 to 30 MHZ (I don't actually use the screwdriver for 6 Meters; I've got a dedicated 6 Meter antenna I MADE from a 2 Meter antenna) with an average SWR of 1.3 to 1 on ALL bands!!! :shock: Been doing it for years. Did it with a Texas bugcatcher 15 years ago. Did it with a Bandspanner over 25 years ago. DID it with homebrew mobile HF antennas I made in the 60's! AND did it with ONE coax of NO particular length. Mine is around 7 feet. a RANDOM length chosen for one reason: the distance between the radio and antenna! In fact I never even HEARD of "coax length" until 1975 or so, and I'm like WHAAAAAAT????????????????????????? Ya gotta be kidding!!!!!! I was setting up HF mobiles in 1966. I hadn't ever heard of such nonsense, and I have worked the world many times over in the last 41 years.
Not only THAT, that "velocity factor" is absolutely USELESS. It is a WASTE of time and a smoke and mirror tactic to try to impress CBers out at Joe's CB Sales & Hack Shop. There is no NEED to do all that formula mumbo jumbo with 492-VF/frequency in mhz to arrive at a "certain" coax length.
If you are determined to find a "certain" length of coax or the length of a dipole, simply divide 468/frequency in mhz! It ELIMINATES all that mumbo jumbo. What is velocity factor? Simply THIS: the speed at which a signal progresses thru a solid or semi-solid medium. That is ALL. It does not affect the quality of the signal, nor does it make for better "SWR-zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz" (WHEN did SWR-sssssssssssss become PLURAL? :D To tune an antenna to resonance, tune the ANTENNA, not the coax! If you have an impedance mismatch, then that can be handled at the feedpoint with silver mica caps, resistors, toroids, or an inductor. Coax length was born on CB and LIVES on CB, and remains alive on CB

I have NEVER figured a 'certain" length of coax, never had any problem getting an antenna to tune. The ONLY way that coax length is a factor is when an antenna uses coax as part of the ground or counterpoise, or the body is not metal. The lack of metal is what is causing the mismatch because it is HALF of the antenna [/u]SYSTEM[/u]!

The screwdriver being a MULTI-BAND, motorized HF antenna that moves fluidly thru a WIDE range of frequencies does NOT have to have a "certain' length of coax. It WILL tune up using the proper feedpoint matching device no matter if you use one foot, 10 feet, or 30 feet, or NO coax at all. I will take any challenges (at my own home, of course) and demonstrate this gladly.

Your turn (Coax length--------------------------Horse HOCKEY!!!)

Wow, I am enjoying this thread! An actual conversation about radios without a pissing match. Good job all, I actually learned something, I think, in reading this thread.

Would make sense about the 18' rule, otherwise this old 11 meter Radio Shack HT, that dates back to the '80s would not work at all, no coax. :), just a rubber duck.

Thanks, I remember reading something like that, but the total technical aspects of things escape me sometime. Like I mentioned to you before, I am trying to learn as quick as I can, and appreciate that correction.

all of this technical mumbo jumbo can be avoided if you just join Useless and me on the tin-can radio network

[quote="Fredog
all of this technical mumbo jumbo can be avoided if you just join Useless and me on the tin-can radio network[/quote]

I am afraid my horses and dogs my get tangled up in the strings.

Man.... I've been TRYING to call you all week, Jed!! But, I keep getting a message saying, "the party you are trying to reach is 'on the can!'" :lol:

Don't y'all have call waiting??? :shock:

That text about velocity factor was quoted out of a book printed in 1973...Antenna something or other for dummies. My point was to illustrate where the 18 foot myth comes from, largely anyway.

I do run 18 feet in my freightliner with my Predator antenna and get a flat SWR at 25.6 and about 1.2 at 28.5.

Now, on the Moonraker IV at home, I just bought 2 100' rolls of the old RG-8 (Big fat stuff) and get a varying SWR all over many bands but never over 1.85 or so - with a perfect 50 ohms on both the horizontal and the vertical.

Gentlemen, the proof is in the pudding.

Laying aside the formulas and "mumbo jumbo" as some said, my illustration was to simply demonstrate that if this 18 feet coax thing was actually true, then, it would be true for ALL frequencies. That would mean that for EACH band, or frequency, you wanted to use, you would cut a piece of coax a specific length, some of which would be as much as 60 feet long at 3.9 MHZ. OR at 1/4 wave 234/3.9+ around 30 feet----WHATEVER multiplier you think is best, have at it, have a ball! Impress some newbie. Don't WORRY about VF--and, besides, even if it made any difference, you would still would come about at about the same place! WHERE would you put TEN lengths of coax up to 60 feet long in an S-10 pickup--drag it along the ground behind you! :twisted:

The screwdriver takes CARE of it and does it at about 1.2 -1.5 SWR (not "swr-zzzzzzzzzzzzzz"), so WHAT'S the big deal? IF it WORKS, it WORKS! And it DOES work! FOR THE MULTIBAND OPERATOR, IN ANY CASE, IT DOESN'T MATTER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I and thousands of other hams have NEVER even given COAX length a second thought, indeed, never ever HEARD of such----until we heard it from the CBers!
And I have installed hundreds of HF radio systems by rolling out how much coax it took to get from the radio to the antenna, tuning the ANTENNA (not the dumb coax), and FORGOT about it.

So as LONG as I can DO that, it WORKS, it will still remain----a CB Myth and Legend like "if I double my power, I'll get double the distance"! :D

RR

While I agree with you that I should not be able to attain that bandwidth with the cb store predator, I assure you, sir, that I do.

Since you agree that the bandwidth can not be that wide something else has to be happening. The most logical would be something is causing the VSWR meter to not give a true reading. Or the meter itself is defective.

One of the things I have seen in some VSWR meters is RF getting into the meter by something other than the inside lead of the coax. Thereby causing the meter to give a false reading. This a common problems with some internal VSWR meters used in CB radios.

If you look at http://www.firestik.com/Tech_Docs/Off-tune.htm you will see a typical VSWR curve. From this curve you see the VSWR ranges from 2.5 to 3.0. Which is typical for most CB antennas.

I haven't done a EZNEC plot on a loaded CB Predator antenna but I suppect it would show a VSWR curve close to what is shown in the firestik article.

kc0iv

You are probably correct, sir. I use a $39 Radio Shack 11 meter type power/swr meter. Perhaps I should invest in something more substantial.

I would have to agree with KC0IV that something else may be going on here. Contrary to popular thought, being "broad-banded" is not necessary a good thing. In fact, in many cases the opposite is true, and it often indicates that the antenna itself is a "sloppy" radiator. In the CB world, "broadbanded-ness" is a "virtue" tho an incorrect one, but it is used as a sales tool. Granted, some of this trait is garnered by using huge elements (the size of the coil windings themselves), and this "BIGNESS" is always a selling feature: after all, size is always an indication of better, right?

The broad characteristics of Bandit 102"s antenna could be caused by several things, one thing being the very installation itself. How close (or far) is it from metal? Is there something coupling to the antenna at a particular frequency, but it isn't at another---yet it is not readily apparent because you aren't using that frequency at the time. Is there ground potential issues, impedance issues that would cause the SAME antenna to become NARROW-banded on a different vehicle. I've had this to happen when changing to another vehicle, and I worked to get RID of the broadbanded-ness because I know that covering a lot frequencies means that the antenna is less efficient because of it. As a general rule, the narrower an antenna is at a given frequency, the more EFFICIENT it radiates at that frequency. It means that it is, basically, putting the most of its effort into radiating that signal at that frequency. After all, a 50 ohm resistor will load nicely on boo-koos of frequencies. You just ain't got much of a signal on any one them! :wink:


RR[/u]

I ordered this today for both of my trucks !!

http://www.premiere-electronics.net/...nexradios.html

Oooooh. If I had $400 sitting around, I would be owning one of them. :P

If I had and extra $400 laying around, I would more than likely have one of these.

http://www.rangerusa.com/rci-29dx.html

Much more practical, and they come out of the box, with twice what the Connex offers, plus, they are not channelized.

also, I have a license to use those radios also!