Innocent Driver Fails Drug Test Question
 

I'm going to try to keep this as short and brief as possible and just state the facts. I don't usually frequent web boards and such however, while doing exhaustive and extensive research on the issue that I'm posting I found myself at this site. After reading many posts, I must say that I sort of feel at home here such to the extent that I joined up and, in hopes that I can beg for some positive feed back to a question that I have.

I'm 49 years old and been a truck driver for years. Back when I was 18 or 19 getting out of High School I started smoking pot. Smoked pot for 3-4 years till my early 20's got in trouble for it and quit. Got back in church went through the masonic lodge and left pot behind. That was over 25 years ago. To date and during my entire life I have never taken any illegal drugs (except smoked pot as mentioned). About 2 years ago I was diagnosed with a heart condition and take 4 medications daily since then.

I started looking for another driving job after the first of the year. I went to the dentist on 4/23/07 for a root canal. The middle of May 07 I finally found what I had been looking for. Called, filled out the online application and the next day they called me and offered me the job. I turned in my notice and the following Monday I went for orentation. Did the routine drug pee test but they also did a drug hair test. I've probably done hundreds of pee tests but this was my first hair test.

That Friday I get a call from the "MRO". He explains to me that my hair tested positive for cocain. I laughed him off and politely explained to him that he was badly mistaken. I was distrubed to the point that I went that day and had another drug hair test done from an independent company. The following week that "MRO" calls me up and says the same thing, that my hair tested positive for cocain. He says their cut off point or "threashold" was 100 (in I forget the name of measurement he used). He says my reading was "684". He says this is consistant with a "regular user of cocain".

By now I'm pretty flipped out, not to even mention the fact that I don't get the job. My girl friend thinks sombody spiked my tea or coffee at a truck stop -- which I find hard to believe, but its possible.

I make an appointment with my Dr. and went in yesterday and explained the circumstances to him. He referred me to another Dr. which I will go to see him this Friday. I ask my Dr. about the spiked drink theroy from my girl friend to which he replied "I don't think you could get to the level of a regular cocain user from a spiked drink".

Since I have never taken cocain in my entire life, ever, obviously the answer lies within my body to be figured out by a Dr. -- if possible. I continue to exhaustively pursue my own research into these circumstances in search of some type of answer, which brings me down to my question:

Has anyone had OR know of anyone who has had a similar experience with a drug hair test?

All responses would be appreciated. Thanks in advance!

Perhaps your Dentist had some kind of composite drug for deadening pain for your Root Canal.
I'm not being a smart ass and I know it's hindsight but you should have told the Drug Test Examiner that you had pain killer for your dentistry work prior to taking it.

Out of curiosity, if you do not mind sharing, what meds are you on for your heart condition and how long have you been on them?

Also do you happen to know what the dentist used during the root canal and did he prescribe of give you and pain pills for post procedure pain and what was it if he did?

Been doing a lot of googling, looks like it's very possible to get false positives for Cocaine.

Cocaine - Substances or Conditions which can cause false positives
Kidney infection (kidney disease)
Liver infection (liver disease)
Diabetes
Amoxicillin, tonic water.

Did the dentist give you any type of antibiotics? Sounds like the best thing to do is see a Doctor and get some blood work done to see if there is any underlying problem.

https://www.lawyersandsettlements.co...false_positive

Might be a good sight that can help but? But if you are being completely honest about not using cocaine I think you could get this resolved. BOL

I've heard that novacaine and cocaine have some of the same ingredients. I'm sure the dentist numbed you up with novacaine. I'd do some research. If you can prove the novacaine did it you may very well have a lawsuit and some money coming your way.

A lot of people think that drug test are foolproof and there are no longer false positives.

Utter B.S- False positives are much more rare than they were in the 80's when drug testing got started. But there are still false positives.

If 99.9% of drug test are accurate. Than that's STILL 10000 people for every million drug test being screwed over.

I personally think Drug Test should not be legal, It's an absolute violation of the constitution of the United States.

I used to think that they were great, that was until a friend of mine failed a drug test. He immediately went to several independent labs and got negative results from them all. He sued the drug testing company that flunked him and he eventually got a 15000 dollar settlement.

Part of the settlement agreement was that he keep his mouth shut about it, the Drug Testing companies don't want you to know how common this is.

DDT

I don't think he'd reach those levels through a topical anesthetic. I do however like the lawsuit idea. I hope one day in America we can reach a point where no one needs to work, but can make their entire living on sueing people and companies. :roll:

do however like the lawsuit idea. I hope one day in America we can reach a point where no one needs to work, but can make their entire living on sueing people and companies. Rolling Eyes



If you lose your job because you went to the dentist than there is no shame in filing a lawsuit. I guess some would prefer we bend over and take it whether we deserve it or not.

Don't compare false positives on Drug Test with some loser that slips and falls on purpose in the walmart just to make a quick buck.

You are painting with a broad brush my friend.

DDT

WOW Thanks for all the feed back. OK heres the deal on the Dentist. I went in for a sore tooth on 4/23. He said it was almost abcessed but he would do a root canal to try to save the tooth. Since i'm alergic to penacillian he gives me a prescription for Clindamycin (antibiotic) and Hydrocodone for pain. I took all of the antibiotic and most of the Hydrocodone.

I explained all of this to the first "MRO" that I talk to. He says "about 1% of Dentists in the US use "topical cocain". So I called my Dentist to find out. My Dentist says, on the little cotton swap he sticks on the gum before he sticks you with the needle, he uses a combination of Lydocain and Bensacain then sticks you with the needle which is Novacain, and that he does not use any form of cocain.

I called the MRO back and explain all this to him. He says "not good enough" because the "reactive agent" used that shows cocain, only shows for a metabolite that is specific only to cocain, and there is "no know substance in the world" that shows cocain, but cocain. I also explained to the MRO that I was taking heart medication and that the Dentist had prescribed Clindamycin and Hydrocodone. He says “let me explain this again” “there is only one reactive agent in the world that confirms the metabolite of cocain” “it does not show any other drugs or substances” “separate tests are done for different drugs” so its impossible for you to show the presence of cocain without cocain having been in your blood within the last 90 days. (I laughed at him and threatened him with a lawsuit but I’ll save that for later)

Somebody ask about my heart medication:

KLOR-CON M20 (I believe this is a potassium replacement)
Furosemide 20mg (I believe this reduces fluid buildup)
Digitex 0.125mg
Enalapril 5mg (one of these squeezes the heart muscle the other helps blood flow)
+ an asprin a day

I have sort of got past the lawsuit idea at this point cause it is becoming more and more relevant to me that I must have some sort of a real serious health condition inside my body that I didn’t even know about. The post from Super Trucker, I believe that’s where my Dr. is headed with this Dr. that he referred me to. My Dr. said he was an “Interniest” who specializes in the kidneys and liver. If I can get an answer, hopefully it will be something that can be corrected.

Once I get an answer, if I do get back to the lawsuit idea, I would have to seriously entertain filing against the U.S. Government and DOT. Not for personal gain, but to protect all those similarly situated drivers who come behind me with the same problem as there is absolutely no recourse for an innocent driver in this circumstance. The DOT should be held accountable for failing to address these circumstances in section 40.149. The MRO has limited options within specific time frames ie. 40.149(a)(3)(i). ALL of which contribute to the degradation of the innocent driver. In other words, once they say you did it, you then, by law, must prove you didn’t do it. Last time I check, something somewhere says “innocent till proven guilty”.

Thanks for all the posts! Please let me know if you have any more questions or feed back. Thanks!

I was doing some reading last night, and apparently liver problems can cause false positives for coke.

The gig is up. Nothing can baffle new hair tests, twice in a row especially. It borders on near impossible statistically speaking.

Vicoden, lortab, etc. DO NOT show up in DOT drug testing.

post
 

Laugh and threathen law suits if you want; but this is no laughing matter. You now have a drug test failure on your DAC and you are shot for being hired for a min. of 7 years. That is how long a company profile on you stays on your DAC, hair test tell your drug use for the past year, so all I can say is good luck; but I believe your ship is sunk.

They may show up in a standard DOT drug test. It all depends on how a person's body metabolizes the medication. With that said though, hydrocodone leaves the body completely within a couple of days after a person stops using it.

Also the FMCSA only requires certain drug classes be tested for. This does not mean a company can not test for other types of controlled substances, nor does it mean that a company can not require a more sensitive test to be conducted than what is required.

YES IT DOES! When I had a tooth pulled, my denisit WOULD NOT prescribe me Vicoden because he knows what I do for a living. He said that if I got tested it will show up POSITIVE.

:shock:Would you care to cite a credible source to support that claim??

He heard it at the lunch counter. How much more of a credible source do you need :lol:

"mbadriver" Wrote:

Vicoden, lortab, etc. DO NOT show up in DOT drug testing.

Useless Wrote:

:shock:Would you care to cite a credible source to support that claim??

Double R Wrote:

He heard it at the lunch counter. How much more of a credible source do you need? :lol:

:lol: :lol: :lol:
Foiled Once Again!!!

Why, Oh, Why did I waste so many years earning my nursing degree, studying such trivial subjects as chemistry, pharmacology, (including drug interactions!!) and human anatomy and physiology, when I could have just attended "The University of The Flyin' Hook"??

A DOT 5 Panel Drug Test is:

These test classes were established decades ago, and include five specific drug groups. They do not account for current drug usage patterns. For example, the tests do not include "synthetic opiates", such as oxycodone, oxymorphone, hydrocodone, hydromorphone, etc., compounds that are highly abused in America:

1. Cannabinoids (marijuana, hashish)
2. Cocaine (cocaine, benzoylecognine, cocaethylene)
3. Amphetamines (amphetamine, methamphetamine)
4. Opiates (heroin, opium, codeine, morphine)
5. Phencyclidine (PCP)

1 - 5 are the 5 Panel DOT Drug Test. Anything more (or less) is not a DOT drug test.

Synthetics will not show up.

They all metabolize the same. Some people on this site come off pretty convincing, a little scratching around will reveal their inner "buffoonery."

Your dentist didn't want to get sued if you mowed someone down.

[quote="Double R"]

:lol: :lol:
You could've gotten your Masters Degree there, and free showers to boot. :P

[quote="mbadriver"]

A DOT 5 Panel Drug Test is:

These test classes were established decades ago, and include five specific drug groups. They do not account for current drug usage patterns. For example, the tests do not include "synthetic opiates", such as oxycodone, oxymorphone, hydrocodone, hydromorphone, etc., compounds that are highly abused in America:

1. Cannabinoids (marijuana, hashish)
2. Cocaine (cocaine, benzoylecognine, cocaethylene)
3. Amphetamines (amphetamine, methamphetamine)
4. Opiates (heroin, opium, codeine, morphine)
5. Phencyclidine (PCP)

1 - 5 are the 5 Panel DOT Drug Test. Anything more (or less) is not a DOT drug test.

Synthetics will not show up.
They all metabolize the same. Some people on this site come off pretty convincing, a little scratching around will reveal their inner "buffoonery."

Your dentist didn't want to get sued if you mowed someone down.

Nice attempt to sidestep the question, mbadriver, but I asked for a credible source to support your "information", and we are still waiting!

While the Opiate Panel can detect the presence of Hydrocodone, an MRO is not required to report the presence of Hydrocodone providing that it has been prescribed; nonetheless, it is detectable through DOT approved drug tests. That should not be confused with a driver being allowed to drive a commercial vehicle or a personal vehicle with it in his/her system; doing so IS prohibited.

In any event, particular to this thread, the presence of Hydrocodone would appear under the opiates panel, not the panel for cocaine.

BTW, here is a website that may be of interest:

< http://www.usis.com/commercialservic...20Products.pdf >

http://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/safety-secu...ting-guide.htm

The regulations require testing for the following classes of substances:
Marijuana (grass, pot, weed, hash, joint, Acapulco gold)
Cocaine (coke, crack, snow, blow, flake, "C", rock, base)
Opiates - opium and codeine derivatives - (heroin, horse, "H", junk, smack, scag, Miss Emma)
Amphetamines - amphetamines and methamphetamines - (uppers, speed, bennies, black beauties, Christmas trees, crystal, mollies, crank, BAM, dexies)
Phencyclidine - PCP - (angel dust, peace pill, hog, supergrass, embalming fluid, rocket fuel, killer weed)

The need to do a separate (beyond the 5 Panel) test for synthetics is strictly sensitivity/limits of quantification differences. Synthetics require greater test sensitivity. The 5 Panel level of detection for Opiates is 2000ng/ml. For synthetics it is 300ng/ml.

In lay terms, think of it as screen size - you aren't going to catch a piece of gravel in a 2-inch screen.

Drug(and trade name) Urine cut-off Toxic blood
points for level
reporting
positive or
limit of
quantitation*

OPIATES

Heroin (Diacetylmorphine) 2000 ng/mL (as > 200 ng/mL
morphine)

Morphine (Duramorph) 2000 ng/mL > 200 ng/mL
(S)(1) 300 ng/mL
(C)(3)

Methadone (Dolophine, Amidone) 300 ng/mL 200 1-2 [micro]g/mL
ng/mL (C)(3)

Meperidine (Demerol, Pethidine) 200 ng/mL (S)(2) > 1000 ng/mL
200 ng/mL
(C)(3)

Codeine (Analgesics with 2000 ng/mL >1.1
codeine) (S)(1) 300 ng/mL [micro]g/mL
(C)(3) lethal)

Propoxyphene (Darvon, 300 ng/mL (S)(1) > 500 ng/mL
Darvocet-N) 200 ng/mL
(C)(3)

Oxycodone (Oxycontin, OxylR, 100-500 ng/mL > 200 ng/mL
Percocet, Percodan) (S)(1) (highly
variable)
100-300 ng/mL
(C)(3) (hiqhly
variable)

A test for synthetics is readily available, but it is NOT part of the DOT 5 Panel testing.

This isn't a thesis. I am not providing footnotes.

A single credible source? I haven't seen anything from your side of the aisle. Wait a minute, someone got a nursing degree from DeVry. Geez, now that's an unimpeachable source :wink:


[quote="Useless"]

USELESS, ummm - I was kind of hoping you might provide some support for your side :wink:

It takes two. Maybe in Texas/DeVry/ITT Tech/JUCO "your false" is a valid rebuttal. CAD has somewhat loftier standards.

I'm trying to help you out here. But you gotta do more than GWB's minute of silence during the '04 Election Debates.

Ok, now repeat after me, "mbadriver your position that synthetic opiates will not show up on a DOT 5 Panel drug test is falacious due to ....."

Don't try to hornswoggle us that your AA from Waxahachie JUCO makes you an authority on the subject. :lol:

[quote="mbadriver"]USELESS, ummm - I was kind of hoping you might provide some support for your side :wink:

It takes two. Maybe in Texas/DeVry/ITT Tech/JUCO "your false" is a valid rebuttal. CAD has somewhat loftier standards.

I'm trying to help you out here. But you gotta do more than GWB's minute of silence during the '04 Election Debates.

Ok, now repeat after me, "mbadriver your position that synthetic opiates will not show up on a DOT 5 Panel drug test is falacious due to ....."

Don't try to hornswoggle us that your AA from Waxahachie JUCO makes you an authority on the subject. :lol:

mbadriver:

After that mindless ramble, I'm starting to wonder about what chemicals are floating through your system!! Or, was it just a frontal lobotomy that went bad??

Better tell the attendants at the rehab center that you need your Thorazine doseage adjusted!!

We are still awaiting your source of information. You made the claim, but you have yet to defend it with credible documentation. If you took the effort to read my reply, you would see a link to USIS Commercial Services, which includes DOT approved drug screening.

Useless, the name fits the debate skills.

All I have gotten from you is one link and an ad hominem argument.

FWIW, your one link/source precisely supported my point.

I'm outta here, c ya by.
[quote="Useless"]

Useless and I have agreed to disagree on this one.

For anyone else who cares:

DOT Testing:

Certified by SAMHSA to meet DOT Regulations -
5 Drug Panel for Marijuana, Amphetamines, Phencyclidine, Opiates, Cocaine
Breath alcohol testing compliant with DOT regulations

Non-DOT: testing for amphetamines, barbiturates, benzodiazepines, cocaine, methadone,
methaqualone (Quaaludes), opiates, phencyclidine (PCP), propoxyphene (Darvon), THC (50 ng/ml), ethyl alcohol
Drug testing for other substances with the option to use hair samples or urine.

The NIDA 5

Drug testing in the United States started to become prominent in the late 1980s with the testing of certain
federal employees and specified U.S. Department of Transporation (DOT) regulated occupations.
Drug testing guidelines and processes, in these areas, are established and regulated by the
Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration (SAMHSA) which was formerly under the direction of the
National Institute on Drug Abuse (NIDA). Regulations require companies that use professional drivers,
specified safety sensitive transportation and/or oil and gas related occupations, and certain federal employers to test employees for the presence of certain drugs.
These test classes were established decades ago and include five specific drug groups.
They do not reflect all current drug usage patterns. For example, the tests do not include "synthetic opiates,"
such as oxycodone, oxymorphone, hydrocodone, and hydromorphone. The test does include:

1. Cannabinoids (marijuana, hashish)
2. Cocaine (cocaine, crack, benzoylecognine)
3. Amphetamines (amphetamine, methamphetamine, speed)
4. Opiates (heroin, opium, codeine, morphine)
5. Phencyclidine (PCP)

While SAMHSA guidelines only allow laboratories to report results for their official NIDA tests,
many drug testing labs and on-site tests also offer a wider set of drug menus.
These tests can include synthetic opiates (oxycodone, oxymorphone, hydrocodone, hydromorphone),
benzodiazepines (Valium, Xanax, Klonopin, Restoril), meperidine (Demerol), fentanyl (Duragesic),
propoxyphene (Darvocet), methadone and barbiturates (Butalbital, Phenobarbital).
Hallucinogens other than cannabis and PCP are rarely tested for and can include mushrooms (psilocybin),
LSD, and peyote (mescaline).
Once a drug screen is positive, a confirmation test is usually done by Gas Chromatography Mass Spectrometry (GCMS).

The only conclusion is DOT testing is SAMSHA Certified. SAMSHA guideline ONLY ALLOW the reporting of Official NIDA tests. Testing for "synthetics" is not an official NIDA test and will not be reported.

You can go into your DOT pre-employment or random high as a kite on synthetics. The results WILL NOT BE REPORTED because they are not SAMSHA Certified NIDA test results.

When you leave the test and crash your rig they can (and will) test you for anything, e.g. NON DOT Testing.

Now kc0iv, runs around here citing case law like a Philadelphia Lawyer. Me? Heck I'm just a dumb trucker. All I can offer ya'll is the history and regulations about a DOT 5-Panel. I found it on one of them there internets. They isn't my words, them Lawyers and other smart people in DC came up with this stuff. I's a guessin ol kc0iv is right again. Shucks. :cry:

[quote="mbadriver"]]

You can go into your DOT pre-employment or random high as a kite on synthetics. The results WILL NOT BE REPORTED because they are not SAMSHA Certified NIDA test results.

When you leave the test and crash your rig they can (and will) test you for anything, e.g. NON DOT Testing.

Now stick that in your pipe and smoke it.

Well, mbadriver, my days of sticking anything in a pipe and smoking it ended decades ago.......before the days of drug testing!!

As you stated, if you go and crash your truck, they can (and will) test for anything.

Now what precipitated this discussion was a story that I relayed about a driver who was taking Hydrocodone. (prescribed) He got into a wreck, was tested, the Hydrocodone showed up on the test, and he lost his job because of it.

Based upon what I was told, he went through a SAP program, and later went to work as a surplus commodities collection and transport engineer. (garbage truck driver)

Based upon your own statement, exactly what you said would happen under those circumstances DID happen.....so now, I'm trying to figure out what all the pitching and fuming was about.

In any event, you and I agreed to leave the past in it's place, and I really don't want to get starterd up with it again.

Peace Out!!

Sound like you might have some health issues..
I used to do drug testing, and have never come across this.
As for you taking Hydrocodone, Vicodin, Loratabe, Norco-- all these are the same thing, just diffrent brand names. The Hydrocodone is generic. These are not from the coco plant, they are from opioum they are opiats. So these are not your problem.
If it was medical med, just about most stuff that ends with cain is from the coc plant. Cetacane, Lydocane etc. But you must have quit a bit to come up posotive..most of the time it will come up as traces..
Get your body checked out, you might have some bad health issue's.

Slimland