my understanding of HOS
 

OK, i understand the 11/14. really pretty basic to understand. my confusion comes in with the split logging. heres my interpretation of split logging.

I just drove 5 hours. now i am really really tired cause i stayed up late last night. So I drove 5 hours and I go into sleeper berth for 8 hours. no off duty just sleeper berth. Now I wake up and i continue the other 6 hours to finish up my 11. NOw from how I interpret it is you can do that because the 8 hrs recalculates where the break is. I think the FMCSR says recalculate from the end of the first break period. Then after I drive those hours and then I take a ten hour break. then the 11 gets reset.

So thats how i interpret it. My company doesnt do split logging due to confusion in it. But if I am in a jam hey u never know.

Am I close or should I stay away from the federal govt writing manual. I didnt graduate from the federal govt writing requirements class. my god these people. I swear i am gonna run for office cause these people are out there.

Its like the new John Mayer song "one day our generation is gonna rule the population" thats his new "waiting on the world to change song."

Re: my understanding of HOS
 

Yes. You have it correct. The only thing that stops the 14 hour clock is 8 hours in the sleeper berth, and the only thing that resets the 11 hour clock is 10 consecutive hours in the sleeper.

5 on, 8 off, 6 on, and 2 off would give you 5 more hours before you had to take 8 off.

5 on, 8 off, 6 on, 10 off will give you 11 hours before you have to take 10 off.

I swear i am gonna run for office cause these people are out there.

Just find that out? :P

Say for example if you took the 8 hours sleeper, then 6 hours driving(now out of hours), then after the 6 hours you took 2 hours OFF DUTY. Now both are "reset" and start counting at the END of the 8 hours sleeper. You have 6 hours on the 11 hour rule, and 8 hours on the 14 hour rule.

Nope - 5 hours on, 8 hours off, 6 hours on, 2 hours off, 5 hours on

He then has 5 hours before he has to take an additional 8 hours off, not 6. If you are splitting, you always add up the hours on each side of the break. Adding the two periods on each side of the sleeper break cannot be more than 11 hours.

http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k1...ssago1/log.jpg

You're right, don't know where my mind was!

go back to the Old HOS-Problem solved :P

Just think of a cd player: pausing vs stopping a song. If you take a break more than 2 hours but less than 10, you are just *pausing* that song. The time before that still counts. You're still on that first song.
You can't start a new one until you take 10hours. That *resets* your clock- stops it.
I know it's kinda crazy but it's helped a couple kids my age that grew up with this type of technology.

That 10 hours off can be:

1) a mixture of off-duty and sleeper berth that is consecutive 10 hours

IF the driver chooses to "split"

2) 8 hours sleeper berth

3) 2 hours sleeper berth, or off duty, or any mixture of the 2

Some situations where the split sleeper gets "hazy":

5 hours driving, then driver takes 8 hours sleeper, then ONE hour "off-duty"

In this situation, that one hour counts towards the 14 hour rule. However, if the driver fulfills his split sleeper reset(2 hours sleeper, off duty, or any combo of both) that 1 hour off duty no longer counts. However, the 2 hours you used for the "split" now counts against the 14 hour rule. That is, until you take 8 hours sleeper berth.

It really doesn't make sense to split if you're doing regular OTR. The 2 hours you need off duty to reset your 11 hours works against the 14 hour rule. Really a shitty way of doing things.

IBMARS: The best way I can tell you how to calculate your 11 & 14 when split breaking is this. YOu have the first steps that you need to do my cheat sheet here!

After your second break

1) Go to the end of the previous break and count over 14 hours (the breaks being your 2 or 8)
2) Go the end of your previous break; Look forward do you have a 2 hour break or an 8 hour break or more? Look below and do the following for whichever break you fall into.
A) 2 hour break: Your final 14 hour mark is the one you made on Step 1.
B) 8 Hour SLEEPER break: Count the number of hours in the SLEEPER
and count over from your 14 hour mark you made on step 1; make a new mark.
YOU CAN NOT DRIVE PASSED THOSE MARKS UNTIL YOU HAVE FULLFILLED YOUR NEXT BREAK OR TAKEN A FULL 10 HOUR BREAK
3) Count total hours of driving time in BETWEEN the 2 & 8 hour break and subtract that from 11, the answer is how many hour you can drive.

You must keep track of your 14 hour rules at all times. You can't just say If I drive 5 sleep 8 drive 6 off 2. YOU MUST KNOW HOW IT REALLY WORKS with other issues that come to play

The breaks can be more than 2. JUST REMEMBER THE 2 HOUR BREAK DOES NOT EXTEND THE 14 HOUR!
Split breaking is a great tool to know, it gets many drivers out of situations they need to get out of and do it LEGALLY!

I know my split breaking and I know how to put it the easiest way! I have many drivers tell me this as I teach @ least 50 drivers a week that are new drivers and they tell me I am the only one that has explained it the best/easiest way!

Ignore whatever REV says about me, he is just jealous I know my crap!

HAVE A GREAT NIGHT MY TRUCKERS AND MOST OF ALL BE SAFE

Run legal or you can be put in prison!

Didn't we already cover this? Why rehash the same information that others have already given? There is nothing here that hasn't been said by others already - except they used better grammar.

Dawn is a wonderful person.

YOUR truckers? Since when are we "YOUR" truckers?

I wasn't aware that the punishment for violating an ORDINANCE was prison. :roll:

You know the Old saying "those who teach..........."

Rev: I guess you need to understand if you are in an accident and it kills someone or hurts someone then you can/will be put in prison and fined some pretty big money. Check out the Taylor University accident in Indianapolis, Indiana that killed 5 kids (they miss identified the bodies of the 2 girls) Well there is an article that shows the driver in handcuffs because he had false logs! So maybe you really need to know logs is serious stuff.


and I re-posted because evident ally the guy still hasn't understood it from your previous messages as well! The grammar well isn't the point, it is plain English and using the stupid DOT words out of the book evidently is not working for the drivers because they would not be here looking for answers!

So Rev: I know my shiat! So you can like go pick on someone that really cares what you are saying because I DON'T! Wow it feels good to actually tell a driver what I really feel without worrying about getting FIRED! Hmmm been doing logs for 18 years I guess I would have been fired if I just didn't know what I was talking about!

Also: Truckers are my friends and I look out for them, I like truck drivers because they all have a different sense of humor and they all learn something from me! I have a few know it Al's, but you know I guess you get them everywhere you go. So yeah "To all my truckers" is a figure of speech and yeah I am letting them all know I am there for them!

LMAO! What is your credentials? Besides English class?

Are you a truck driver? Cause if you are do you get any miles on the road or is all your miles on the keyboard?

To all the other NICE truck drivers; I appreciate what you do and I am here if you need anything! I will find the answer for you!

It's all in the Bible-FMCSA

Thank You
 

Thank you Dawn for your help.

I doubt he was in handcuffs because of the logs - I'm sure it had something to do with the fact that he killed 5 people. :roll:


Using the "stupid" DOT words is the BEST thing to do, as it eliminates any confusion.

Seems to me that you were here the other day claiming you can log "On Duty, Not Driving" when you are driving on private property. Still looking for some sort of PROOF of that from that "stupid" DOT, as there are many interstates that are privately owned now, including (but not limited to) the Chicago Skyway, and the Indiana Toll Road.

Saying you are an expert doesn't make you an expert. :roll:

Graduated at the top of my class in high school, went on to college at U.W. River Falls, worked in the financial sector for quite a few years, worked for a legal company preparing large-scale cases for major lawsuits. Got into trucking, drove for 9 1/2 years as a company driver, pulling van, hoppers, HHG, flatbed, tanker. During that time, I started a corporation which handled re-processing store returns. Went into business for myself a year and a half ago when I bought my truck.

But my credentials are not important, as I am not claiming to be an expert. :roll:

Some of us have actually figured out that you don't need to run your a@@ off to make money in this business.

But, to answer your question, I've got about 1,000,000 miles under my belt, give or take. I never really kept track, as it isn't important.

We managed before you, and we'll manage after you. Myth_Buster was even better than you, as he actually cited the rules. :roll:

Oh REV!
 

I doubt he was in handcuffs because of the logs - I'm sure it had something to do with the fact that he killed 5 people.

Denial must be something you are used to "automatically deny everything before you know the facts" Yeah there was several things, but the FALSE LOGS was the main issue here! TRUST ME! Keep track of the case! Something many drivers again do not realize!

Using the "stupid" DOT words is the BEST thing to do, as it eliminates any confusion.

Seems to me that you were here the other day claiming you can log "On Duty, Not Driving" when you are driving on private property. Still looking for some sort of PROOF of that from that "stupid" DOT, as there are many interstates that are privately owned now, including (but not limited to) the Chicago Skyway, and the Indiana Toll Road.

Umm you are not really driving when you are backing up your truck or when you are driving around to park your truck. Kind of like if you move your truck from one spot to another when you are at a truck stop and someone comes along and plays to loud of music so you want to go somewhere else! It is not driving you just moved around. DOT says anything UNDER 7.5 minutes you do not have to log! So I don't think (if you are a good driver) it would take you longer than 7.5 minutes to back up! Um Toll roads you are moving the truck consistantly and you would be behind the wheel that is why you would not be logging line 4, but would be logging driving!

It sounds to me like you really don't need to be here yourself! You was a truck driver for 9 years! I am impressed! I have been a log auditor for 18. Hmm I guess I have went through all the changes with the new regulations and all! I guess I have went through a DOT audit within the company. So yeah I know a little and I NEVER CLAIMED TO KNOW IT ALL! But YOU CLAIM YOU KNOW IT ALL AND WANT TO ARGUE EVERYTHING!

Are you really that bitter you have to attack people, instead of welcoming them? Was you totally mistreated by all your class mates and that is why you act the way you do! I am so glad you are not a truck driver now! THANKS TO THE LORD FOR THAT ONE!

You don't get "Handcuffed" Because of Falsifying Log books.

Thanks Webby, I just hope it helps 1 person to understand.
I say dont think about it just do what the steps say's to do and the why will come later. I was totally lost in all the paper work I had recieved on the split breaking, then once I stopped trying so hard to understand it I GOT IT! I was so used to the old rules, like you guys/girls. I didn't think I would get it, but I FINALLY DID and to be honest I can't remember the old rules as good as I can these! I hope they don't change cause I will have to train 2500 drivers once again! Although I feel for you guys on the 14 hour rule! Changing would suck for you all!!!

HAVE A GREAT NIGHT!

Yoopr: I think you better watch your words and hope it doesn't happen to you! Cause I am serious, if you are in an accident and you kill or injur someone and it goes to court you VERY WELL COULD BE IN PRISON! I am sorry to be the bad news bear, but it is true. You can believe me if you want or you don't have to believe me. I have nothing to lose by telling you the truth now do I? You can probably google search false logs and find out how many drivers was arrested due to an accident and false logs! How many Dispatchers was arrested due to pushing drivers to run illegal due to the driver being in an accident!
I don't care if the company allows you to run illegal, you (yes you) can be put in prison if death or injuries occur. If injuries occur, you might be lucky and it might just be a lawsuit where they take everything you own and cause you to lose your "CDL"

I will dispute the facts with you all night although I will be tired soon as I have to go look at 2500 logs tomorrow! So send me your disputes and I will correct myself or stand up for myself. When I am wrong or misleading I will tell you the truth "truth shall set you free"

I don't hate I LOVE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Have a great night guys (I wont call you my trucker friends as I guess that offends people)

Yoopr: about the comment you know the old saying "those who teach____" no I don't know the saying, but doesn't Rev come here to teach as well? To be honest I wonder how much he really know, or is he just copying and pasting from the DOT online Regulations? I type what I have to say, and I don't have to keep looking at a paper or website. I type it! It is real stuff! So if you feel Rev is correct you might rething in how he "teaches". I have said I don't know everything but I have allot of knowledge in logs and I am willing to SHARE those knowledges!

I have never met ruder people in my life!

I try to be nice to everyone until they have actually done something wrong.

I've driven since '78 and I think I have a clue about driving and all it Involves :roll:
PS-Spotless record also-how many years have you driven?

You are VERY RIGHT It all matters in "SPOTLESS RECORDS" Log legal and you won't have a problem, that is exactly my point!

You have been trucking since I was 8 years old! You have been through all the changes I have been through, wow! Isnt' that just cool!

He askes a valid point - how many years have you driven?



And if you check your calculator, you will see that I have driven 11 years, not 9.

Quote:
Question 1: How should a change of duty status for a short period of time be shown on the driver's record of duty status?

Guidance: Short periods of time (less than 15 minutes) may be identified by drawing a line from the appropriate on-duty (not driving) or driving line to the remarks section and entering the amount of time, such as "6 minutes," and the geographic location of the duty status change.
from: http://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/rules-regul...942&guidence=Y



As you see ALL status changes times must be show. So moving that truck around in the lot, by law, you must log it. Would DOT cite you? Maybe. It would all depend on the case. Let's say while your moving that truck you had an accident. You have already logged as "Sleeper" or "Off Duty - Not Driving" so what are you going to do?

You said:


(Talking about logging line 4 at the shipper/Consignee. I know the regulations on where to draw the line! If you are at a truck stop and you move the truck to a different spot(not moving to another truck stop) If you have an accident in the parking lot and it is a dot reportable accident well then the person was doing something they should not have been, and I don't see a cop taking an accident report for a fender bender or broken mirror wanting to look over your log books. If you are at a shipper backing up and you move your truck you can log "on duty" just as your above copy paste from dot book states

That's the point you go by what you think the regulations says. The "REV" quotes DOT regulations. As has been show your cheat sheet is incomplete. As I just show you above. You made the same kind of error a few days ago about the private property thing.

yoopr said:

MY cheat sheet is very complete it just takes someone who actually knows how to read it to believe it and to use it! So sorry you don't agree, but if you would like I can e-mail it to DOT and see what he has to say and I would be glad to umm copy and paste it to you!

I agree completely. No one got put in handcuffs because of a falsifying log book(s). I'm am sure it had to do with the accident. Now I'm sure then the case goes to trial that will be included. Same thing go for when the lawsuit is filed I'm sure the lawyer will look at his and the company's records.

You said:

yeap the look at driver & company records, (been there done that, when we had our accident in 2004) and they can find you in neglegence just because of your logs! Maybe you need to ask a lawyer about that. So maybe you will know umm I do have my facts straight, and I know what the regs say, I just don't need to copy and paste them! And I don't use word for word, I MAKE IT SIMPLE! Life is much easier when you make it simple. The DOT WORDS are not read very simple for some people.


If you have to do 2500 logs I would suggest your company invest in a log checking program. Such a program can pay for itself in a very short time. One added benefit is when DOT sees such a program is being used they will accept it more than someone doing it by hand.

The last point I will say is you came in here saying you want to help drivers which is fine. Yet it has been pointed out you have made error after error. You don't back-up your claims with regulations. You want people to accept them strictly because you say so. That might work at your company but it's not going to work here. You have every right to hold a opinion but to come in here claim your right just because you have a cheat sheet ain't going to be accepted. If you don't want to type the regulations then post a link where you got the rules.

I could add more but that's enough.


Umm we have a log system: Don't know why you think we don't! We do not do them by hand! No way ever possible with as many drivers as we have.
And I have went through 3 dot audits and umm proud to say that DOT always gave us satisfactory! When prior audits the company had (while I was not there and the only audits they had when I was not there) they failed them and the doors was ready to be shut if one more! So sorry you don't BELIEVE WHAT I AM SAYING! I know I know my shit! So I don't have time to waste on you or anyone else not believing me, I thought I might find NICE PEOPLE HERE willing to accept help outside of their own log department! And mind you I also have several managers, Vice Presidents who would love to have me! So exscuse me for knowing my stuff. Rev can only pick on my grammar, and that is about all! And you well you really must not know all the facts! Why should I spell? I am just typing to someone who is only going to find something wrong all the time

I feel sorry for your soul mate

Get ready to be OWNED.


:roll: Find another career, Dawn. You suck at this one.

Show me anywhere where DOT limits this action "to logging line 4 at the shipper/Consignee".

Well Dawn I guess you jusy haven't been to Atlanta, GA. A fellow driver had a fender-bender at the Petro. City cop wanted to see his log-book. BTW he was parked it was the other driver who hit him.

A couple of years ago a DOT cop was checking log-books going from truck to truck. Sure I could have argued with him and more than likely got a full level one inspection. Or I could show him my log-book and be done with it. I took the easy way out and showed him by book.


Beg your pardon I did not say they limit your time "to logging line 4 at the shipper/consignee" I said they know it takes at least 15-minutes TO DEAL WITH LOADING/UNLOADING!" It is only common sense you don't just drive in and drive out! No you time the next time you load/unload (if you are even a driver?) and lets see how long did it take you to back up to the dock? How long did it take you to "maybe" go inside to deal with finding out what to do or who is unloading? Lets see you don't just back up and run to the sleeper and you just don't run out the door and go off duty? NO time yourself the next time and umm lets see how long you "actually spend dealing with loading/unloading? And when you are done loading you should "good driver" get out and check your tractor and trailer (trailer to see if the doors are properly shut, but this would be a good/safe driver to do this) 2 time to let your Dispatcher know what is going on. All time spent dealing with loading/unloading is on line 4!!!!!!!!!
I only had 2 drivers written up (that actually called "like umm you might do) that called and said the officer wrote me up for logging off duty/sleeper while being at a shipper and no line 4. I said and the officer is correct! I also said if you logged some time on line 4, and the rest of the time in the sleeper then maybe he would not have even questioned you at all!


got an idea. Why don't you e-mail DOT and ask them if you are right about moving a truck without logging (flag) it. Maybe Myth_Buster is reading this. He's a DOT inspector.

Or you could simply list the chapter and verse to support your claims.



I will because moving your truck around in the truck stop you don't have to log it! Now if you are sitting in the truck WAITING to fuel your truck and all time spent inside paying for your fuel etc.. IS line 4!

I'm sure you make them simple. They may not be right but they are simple. Really, most for the regulation are not that hard to understand. Those that are I have found the DOT Q&A section explains them quite well. May I suggest you read the Q&A. It uses very simply plain language.

So instead of answering drivers questions (or picking on them for asking) why don't you just reply with "read the book, it is pretty simple" Again evidentally they did not understand the book and still have the question so they ask!

I'd get a better log audit program. If what you are telling us it allows.

No if you was in my department I would be terrified in how you would percieve yourself to the drivers. Rude!!!!!!!!! I know what I am talking about once again, it is you who does not know!

Getting a satisfactory rating don't mean you are doing everything right. It simple means they didn't find enough wrong to de-grade you.

I went through a pretty darn tough dot audit and I don't think they gave any slack so umm I would say they didn't find enough because I "know my shit"So you just kind of said it there! They couldn't find enough to degrade us! Well don't you think that would be your first sign!

There several reasons. (1) It shows respect to the people reading your post. (2) It shows you have taken the time properly composed your post. (3) You respect this forum by using it's spell-checker.

And when I do spell check, it really doesn't find that much wrong! :lol: I can spell, I just don't want to take all night correcting myself after I have thought all day long!

So this is your last message from me unless you have something intelligant to say "I guess this would be your last message" So if you have nothing nice to say "DONT SAY ANYTHING AT ALL" I guess you must not have learned that as a kid!

And I am glad you found your soul mate! I hope she sticks around, Bless her soul to deal with you!

You know, this website DOES have a quote function. Why not take the time to learn the BBCode, so we can actually tell what is a quote, and what is your response? :roll: