Posted: Thu Mar 15, 2007 8:07 pm by COASTIE
Quote:
From what I been reading on here, it my understanding as long as you got hours coming back on you can still drive up to the max number of hours you have coming back on each day. Same as before they changed the rules.
|
Dawn said:
Posted: Thu Mar 15, 2007 8:16 pm
Quote:
Yes. If you gain hours @ midnight you have them hours to drive. You do not have to take a 34 hour restart.
|
Rev.Vassago said:
Posted: Thu Mar 15, 2007 8:39 pm Post subject:
Quote:
Dawn wrote:
Yes. If you gain hours @ midnight you have them hours to drive.
That isn't how the HOS runs, Dawn. Way to screw up the regs again. You don't gain hours at midnight.
|
The beginning of this thread dealt with the 34 hour restart. At the point that I referenced above, the discussion changed to how to gain hours back on your 70 to AVOID a 34 hour restart.
NOW you say:
Quote:
But, let's assume that he didn't violate the 70 hour rule, and simply used less hours certain days (which is what I am assuming you meant).
|
YES! I ONLY referred to a random amount of hours worked on the 1st day.
Quote:
In that case, then it could be possible that he has to wait until 6:00 a.m. on day 9 to start driving again.
|
We were not talking about when he could START driving again. We were discussing WHEN he regained his hours available again.... and I clearly stated later that the
11/14 hour rule still applied. I believe that even the original statement by Coastie was clear as to his intention, which was NOT to be able to just keep driving continuously, but rather to avoid a 34 hour restart.
Quote:
What you keep referring to, and what Dawn keeps referring to, is this "midnight to midnight" operation. It doesn't exist, other than on the recap (which isn't even required by the FMCSA). The only way a true "midnight to midnight" operation exists, is if you are on duty 14 hours a day, and off for 10 hours. Anything less than that isn't a midnight to midnight operation. You don't gain your hours back at midnight. You gain them back when your 10 hours off duty is satisfied.
|
It is PRECISELY the "recap" as YOU refer to it that we were discussing. ALL carriers are required to state their 24 hour duty period, and in this case, we were assuming a midnight to midnight duty cycle - used for logging purposes. The recap is NOT required to be written down.... but it is required to be considered for the purpose of getting hours back and not violating the 60/70 rule.
There is no requirement, and no one but you thinks there is, that a person work 14 hours a day and takes 10 off to be considered on a 24 hour midnight to midnight operation. It DOES in fact, refer ONLY to his RODS.
If your RODS are kept on a midnight to midnight basis, you most certainly DO regain the "chunk" of hours used during that same cycle 8 days back - AT MIDNIGHT. The fact that he is still on his 10 hour break is immaterial except that it means he cannot drive (as you say and so did I) until he has had the required break. But, he got his hours BACK at midnight. And they are the total number of hours driven between midnight and midnight on the 8th day back.
Let's say on that 1st day, he started at 6 p.m. and drove until 5 a.m. on the next day. At midnight on the 8th day, he would get back the 6 hours (only) that he drove prior to midnight the first day. By NOW.... he may be on a different schedule and completes his 10 hour break at midnight. He IMMEDIATELY gets those 6 hours back (subject to the 11/14 hour rule.) He does NOT
have to wait or even
GET to wait until sometime in the morning (or 6 p.m.) and then get all 11 hours back.
Obviously, if he hasn't completed his 10 hour break at midnight on the 8th day, he cannot DRIVE until he has. But, he got his 6 hours ONLY back at midnight. They are now available to use as soon as he is legal to drive again.
Quote:
The 60 and 70 hour rule is a completely different story
|
NO.... it is the story we were discussing at this point in the thread. Try to keep up! :wink:
Quote:
A true "midnight to midnight" operation would run out of hours in 5 days, forcing a 34 hour reset to continue operating.
|
Your definition of such is NOT what is referenced MANY times in the regs.
Quote:
And even then, you wouldn't gain your 70 hours back at midnight
|
No one referred to getting all 70 back. We were talking about getting back the hours used on the FIRST of 8 days on your RODS.
Quote:
And even then, the 60/70 rule doesn't have to begin or end at midnight. It can begin or end at any time of the day:
|
This is possibly the only TRUE statement you've made on this topic. Too bad NO ONE was debating it.
Quote:
As you can see, the motor carrier can decide when the 24 hour clock starts. It doesn't have to start at midnight.
|
Okay, second correct point. Which, if you'll read Dawn's original reply was the reason she SPECIFIED midnight as a given condition for the purpose of the discussion.
It is quite possible that you misunderstood a point or two in the discussion. I KNOW you know your stuff, which is why I was in such disbelief when you posted what you did. I hope somehow or another, I have clarified my and others' position for you.
No one said anything about getting your 70 back at midnight in conjunction with a 34 hour reset. If YOUR company works/logs on a midnight to midnight basis - as the daily grid is set up for - you get back the hours worked for THAT log sheet at midnight 8 days later. If you work on a 9 to 9 basis or something like that, you would get the hours worked during THAT 1st 24 hour period back at THAT respective time on day 9.
Are we ALL on the same page now?