How much motive for contracting directly with the shipper
 

If you've done a load for a broker that paid, let's say, $1000, what do you suppose the broker gets? The reason I'm asking is because I don't like a broker that I did a load for and yet I kinda like the run. If I could bump up the $ just a little I'd be happy, or at least happy enough. So now I'm thinking I should talk to the shipper directly and make an offer.

Also, what is your opinion on the ethics questions?

Is there a back-soliciting clause in your relationship with the broker? I'd say minimum 30% upcharge ($1300).

Get in front of the decision maker at the shipper and ask if all of their transportation needs are currently being met, then let him or her do all of the talking. Chances are you will find out that your broker has no relationship with the shipper at all, you were probably sold a double brokered load.

If you have to ask about the ethic's of it,then it's a non-issue to you.

Did you have a bad day or something? I cared enough about ethics to ask for people's input.

You need others input on ethics? You're speaking of"back dooring"the brokers customer,which i'm sure is in your contract.

im not gana jump on your ethics, but you go right ahead and try to still that load, good chance shipper will tell broker and you be blacked-ball from that broker as well any he knows. if the load isnt paying what you want then ask for more. if you hauled it for cheaper then you wanted thats your dumpass not the broker. just ask for more. dont get. dont run it.

i had a few extra day in upstate ny. made a few call. apple to ma. 426mile 1800.... i did have to dh back for my normal ld

Who said anything about NEEDING input on ethics? I asked people more experienced than myself a question about what is done and what is not done. I've had shippers approach me about hauling for them so obviously some carriers are open to back-dooring.

Rather than trying to get your jollies judging me for something I haven't done and just asked about, maybe you could offer answers to my questions. What kind of % do brokers get? I'm considering what other options I might have. Advertise on Craigslist for instance? I don't really know. Straight truck loads can be hard to find and I can't imagine going around town knocking on doors to see who might be interested in having me do some loads for them. Any ideas for finding shippers to haul for?

Want to find shippers? Hundreds of phone calls,knocking on doors,networking. If someone is not willing to do that then you live with what brokers will pay.

Serious question,why buy a truck,get the authority without having a customer to start with?

Maybe I like a good challenge. :) Don't most people get started these days with buying a truck and getting authority and relying on loadboards for their loads? Maybe not.

With winter closing in and rates down from where they were just a short time ago I'm looking for alternatives to bidding against people who are willing to give their services away for next to nothing.

That seems to be normal today. And you have the complaining about no freight.low rates,ect. Not that i would want to go back to the days of regulation but you had to have a shipper vouch for needing you before you could get the authority.

I assume(?)you're in MI? 3-400 mile radius of Detroit area is the 3rd most active area for expedite freight in the country. Pick up the phone and start calling. Remember the 100,10,1. Call 100,10 talk to you,1 customer comes out of it.

Always going to be cheaper people,set yourself apart. What can you do different than 1000 others? If you got into this to do what you want,when you want,how you want then you're pretty much stuck on the brokers.

if you in mi. or were ever you based out of, ur first job is your out bound lane, weather thats by call/knocking on doors or working with brokers to find a regeler shipper you run out with. when you have that worked out, and under stand what and when shipment go out then you can try and match up lanes to bring you back.

you may not like the broker you spoke about in your first post but theres a conection that have to be built on. the better he gets to know you and your service the better rates your get.

i would say the avege broker cut is 7-10% to his/her regalers, if he has loades that is being placed on a boad he will probly post at the avg. rate for that area.

And this broker wouldn't cheat MD if he had the chance? And the shipper only uses that ONE broker? And you know 100% what is in his contract?

Come on, guys... MD is new at this (as you all know.) He ASKED the question about ethics! He's probably just trying to make a living AND live with himself. IMO... he started out too soon, but that's his decision. I've followed some of his posts here, and he's not the "bad guy." He comes here looking for advice... not criticism.

That being said... I know you guys have a creed. And I know you speak your mind. But... aren't you here to help people? Save the Billy Big Rigger stuff for the azzholes.

Are you a broker, too, Chris? If so... I can see where you are coming from. But, perhaps you should disclose that info.

Logbook AND that "alphabet guy" gave good info without "jumping" on his question of ethics. No disrespect to THEM... but, I would value your opinion just as much or more. But, I will be real careful when my time comes as to what questions I ask so that I can benefit from your knowledge... without suffering from your attitude.

Let's all try to play nice now, ok? Cuz you never know who is listening and learning.

What? You say there IS NO Santa Claus? Spoiler!

:p

Hobo, wow, I honestly appreciate your stepping up and saying a good word for me.

I have to say 2 things though.

1. I can be a dick. We've all seen it on this forum. I'm usually a pretty easy going guy, but I'm very competitive and being in business trying to pull it up by the bootstraps has been a trying experience and many days I'm in a frustrated ugly mood. I've been making a real effort lately to not take it out on folks here on the forum and that's why I stayed away for a month. We all come here for a little break from the daily BS, not for a double dose of it. I have no right to take my bad mood out on anyone else. So I deserve some flack and (on a good day) I try to show I can take it.

2. Judging by Rick's avatar (do people still call it that?), he's a Republican and I've made no secret of the fact that I am not. He probably thought he had a choice opening to give a lib a bit of a rash. Of course I could point out that we haven't been talking about ethics much in this country for the last 32 years and I'm not surprised that he's uncomfortable that I should be concerned with it, but hey, I'd rather play nice. Like I said I'm trying to be a *****cat.

Well, I'll be dipped in something that rhymes with chit. The word p.u.s.s.y.cat is censored on this forum. :D

Now he was thinking of going in and under-cutting the broker to get the load. What do you think the reaction would be if he had the load and someone came in and under-cut him?

Some like to talk bad about brokers,but they come into the business with no customer(s). They also come in to do what,when,where,and how they want. No customers will put up with that so they need the brokers. And then complain about them.

Like i said,(if he's in lower MI)he's in the 3rd largest expedited area of the country. Call,call,and call some more. If you can't handle rejection from those calls then use brokers.

I'll give you some advice on customers. If they come looking for you,then you don't want them.(unless it's a referral from a current customer) They contact you because they are a problem and no one wants to work with them. They're contacted every day by carriers. You need to have something that makes you stand out or you're just another carrier that they don't need.

Set aside 1-2 hours a day for calling. Should be able to do 25-30 calls with no problem in that time. Buy MFI for MI,start on page one. You'll have 6 months of calls. Make sure you know rates or you'll make a fool of yourself.

Thanks Chris - sounds like good advice.

MD go right after your own work. why give anyone a cut of your pay. More hands you have in the pot the less you get in the long run.

The courts have said a customer can do business with anyone they want to. Does anyone actually know of someone that was forced to pay a broker for soliciting?

How about a docket# for that? Reasonable non-compete's are upheld all the time.

MD it's all about Service and building a relationship with the broker. Not all brokers are out to get you. If you give them good service they will be be calling you. When they start calling you to take a load you have the advantage and can bump the rate up.

It doesn't matter if they are making 10% or 50% on the load. If you can't haul it and make money don't take the load.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aVxnqVVhR-8

NY vs Merrill Lynch.....the customer can do business with whoever they want.

Even if the shipper wanted to spend the money to go to court it takes months and sometimes years. The good thing is your business liability insurance would pay to defend you and pay if you lose.

CA vs Dominelli. Dominelli's insurance paid $5 miilion to settle claims and he ran a ponzi scheme, not a trucker getting an extra measly 10-20% of a freight bill. The claim was paid by Farmers Insurance. I also worked for them at the time.

Either way....the OP can do what he wants. I am just giving him another perspective.

Neither are back solicitation cases,still would like to have the docket# to read.

Right or wrong, it's a dog eat dog industry.

You should talk to someone like Obama on that oh never mind he has no clue:)( Like how I did that ? DIG DIG)
Ethics ?? If its not forbidden in your contract (read all of them)the GO FOR IT! What the he11 ya waiting for man! You got bills to pay too.
I take a jab or two at ya every now and then, after all your a lib. But that dosn't mean I don't want you to do good.
I'm a company driver, I drive an OTR truck for an OTR company BUT I've hauled the same stuff from the same place to my home town now for five years. Most nights it could fit in a 6 wheel truck legally. Why do you think the shipper pays (and they do PAY) for more truck than needed? Some of it's the company I work for but some of it's me. I make sure it's there on time, If I might not make the window I call them and tell them so they can sleep in. if I break down I MAKE SURE THE LOAD IS T-CALLED I do not leave that to night dispatch! I unload the product and stage it for the local guys. SERVICE IS THE KEY!! You need to show a shipper how you can do the job BETTER then others for the SAME cost. Don't try to get into a bidding war by undercutting someone. If they ship with the cheapest guy they can find you won't have them long.
Start calling and calling and calling. Stop by with a dozen doughnuts and your card, When I had the body shop I loved free shizit!
See this is what a CAPITALIST would do, so you've got a lot to learn! :)

What the heck has gotten into you guys? Y'all are turning this into an interesting thread. :)

The other day while driving down the road this thread popped into my head and it occurred to me that if I had said "how much incentive" instead of "how much motive" the thread would have had a slightly different spin. It's funny how some words conjure up side-effect meanings. The word motive is usually used in conjunction with a crime. Incentive on the other hand is benign.

A side note - nothing is ever cut and dried. CH Robinson, who I've done a lot of loads for, has a customer that pays well but I have never done one of there loads. Contractually I don't think I'm forbidden from trying to steal the account, but ethics are messier. The only way I know about the existence of the account is through casual conversations with CHR employees. I think they would have no more to do with me if I managed to snag it.

Back to my extremely poorly worded first post though. I'm really wondering how much benefit is gained from the monumental effort of trying to sell directly to the shipper. (I HATE SALES!!! I'D RATHER DO DRYWALL FOR A LIVING!!!). But if my cut is let's say 30% less thanks to broker involvement, I could try to be an adult and do what I hate for the sake of the business.

Don't let these guys fool you MD.
Most of them have a woman, who are the brains. :)

lol And so true! :)

Who told?

Could have been YOUR wife! How do you know what she does while you're gone all day (or week(s) for us OTR guys!)

She could be logged on here under a name you wouldn't recognize.

Things that make you go Hmmmm.....

It's true that it shouldn't matter how much a broker makes as long as you are making the money you want. I do admit that dealing with customers direct is much cleaner. Better pay and less problems.

Brokers don't have ethics, they're doing it for the money. But if you talk to the broker, and can cover a load a week or two you can sometimes get more money. Going to the shipper you may have to cover six to ten loads a week to get a contract.

I have watched your posts for a while...and once I even suggested you contact shippers directly.

The only time I would think you could legitimately solicit work from a Shipper whom you either worked for thru a brokerage agency, or learned about during discussions with a broker's agent, would be after a brokerage agency has broken the contract that exists between you. Most brokerage agency's break their contracts with trucking companies fairly quickly. This is done when they fail to pay you promptly. "The check is in the mail" only maintains the contract if the post mark on the envelope is within the period contained in the regulations.

"Pay Terms" are huge in this industry. Many brokerages will attempt to get a carrier, especially a small carrier whom is new to the industry, to believe that 60 day pay terms are "Industry Standard". Very few Corporations have such "pay terms" in their contracts with brokers. Fewer still have such pay terms included in their contracts with their "Direct Bill" carriers.The following link is "the law" as regards freight charges, and is the single biggest contract violation in the industry. In the period when I was processing freight bills, more than a third of the brokerages we worked with violated that regulation, and no contract a broker has you sign supersedes that regulation.

Extension of credit to shippers. - Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration

You have "limited" your ability to do business in a lot of ways MD.

1; You chose a small unit with very limited weight capabilities.

2; You are hesitant to talk directly with the "Shipper".

3; Your "operational area" is to large for the one piece of equipment you have.

As Chris pointed out, you are based in Michigan, with the third largest area in the country for expedited freight at your door. You should not have to leave your immediate vicinity to make a very comfortable living, even with your limited capabilities. From DAY ONE you should have been focusing on contacting the type of business that would best utilize your service. In my view those would be the smaller parts manufacturers whom produce parts for the larger corporations that manufacture in your area. Even two years ago those smaller facilities would have gladly contracted your services on "Day Rates" that would have allowed you to be comfortable (or at a minimum pay your bills).

MD...."Sales and Service" are the only way you can survive in this industry. You are working hard at providing the "service". Now you need to work harder at "Sales". The thing you have to do is search out the market in your area and find the small company that most fits your needs....and which most "needs" the services you have to offer.

my 2 cents

When you refer to part 377 you have to remember that it applies to Common and HHG cariers,not contract carriers. See 377.2 1(b)...There is no time limit.

In business law,one party violating a section of the contract does not negate the contract in whole. In other words,not paying in 30 days per contract does not void the whole contract. It only gives the other party grounds to file suit for the violation. That suit may be for the voiding of the contract,but a court will decide that.

We've been building our customer base but I'm seeing more and more that brokered loads actually pay more. For instance, we bid on a shipper with over 900 lanes. We know what we get for those lanes and bid accordingly. They said we were too high. We are constantly on those loads and get our price but from a broker. When they are in a bind, they will lose money. The spot market can be very lucrative. We are on a load today for a broker and we know they are losing money as we are set up with the shipper. However it was a rush load and they had to pay.

here is where i'm at with the broker v. customer thing.

i got 3 main customers.

1. seasonal (best )
2. my normal gig (also good)
3. my back haul ( new and a pain)

1&2 pay great and i get paid right away.

3. the ONLY reason i'm keeping them is because there is a gateway to something real big. this cusomer is slow to pay and as of late they seem to tell me what my rate is. again, i keep them because of what it could bring down the road.

now the thing is most times from what i see with your own customers you dont get paid as if you would with a broker. what i mean by that is most brokers have quick pay.

what else i've noticed is that i have people calling me to do dedicated work from load boards. brokers and shippers alike. by the end of the year i should have 2 more trucks making 3 in total. i say just keep persistent and do what you need to do.