Whats Wrong with this Industry?
 

I've been out here 8 years now and everyday I see a decline. I don't understand why people feel like they have to settle for things. Companies are stealing big time and drivers are putting up with it. I can only speak from my exp, but the guys I work with are soft as a philadelphia pretzel. The Company I run for is stealing from us BIG TIME and none of these cowards wanna stand up for themselves..

There is money out here to be made and until we decide that it belongs to the drivers and not the companies then we will never get our fair share. No reason Company drivers shouldn't bring home well over $65,000 Min. we have to make a change in this Industry.. I don't know where to start but it has to start somewhere.

Dont get your hopes up. It will never happen.

Waitin on GMAN to come in here and say 40-50k a year is great money to live in a truck for weeks on end.

You're tilting against windmills young man.

Exactly. And too many drivers apparantly agree with GMAN cause they just keep on doin it.

[QUOTE=Tobytob;497724]
There is money out here to be made and until we decide that it belongs to the drivers and not the companies then we will never get our fair share. [QUOTE]

Why does it not belong to the companies? They are the ones with the risk. Just saying.

This is exactly my point, when do we educate our fellows driver and help them make better decisions in life. janitors make more money than OTR drivers. and the reason is the companies keep all the money. Seriously this has to come to and end sooner or later. I fear for the future of this industry it becoming a terrible occupation. I love what I do but I refuse to do it for pennies. Pay me or Im moving on, simple as that. This is the only industry where and employ has to fight for his hourly or weekly pay every week.. I don't understand.
I heard a driver talk about his company charging him for using to much reefer fuel and keeping him out on the road for weeks at a time. His said he doesn't even bring home $500 a week. seriously this is modern day slavery and it unfair to the working class. And Im sure you all know how hard we work and under appreciated we are. I think this industry could use a major over haul. starting at the top of the program with these BS companies making all the money and not paying the drivers $1000 a week is not good money for company driver especially if that's before taxes.. WAKE UP people..

[QUOTE=aubie2;497749][QUOTE=Tobytob;497724]
There is money out here to be made and until we decide that it belongs to the drivers and not the companies then we will never get our fair share. Seriously, LMAO.. OK and with no employees you have no Company remember that....Risk is you signed up for, when you decided you want to start a business, doesn't mean you steal from the employees or pay them min wage just because you can get away with it. Thats a terrible business model... If you pay your employees a decent salary the work environment would be 10x better, thats a proven fact. I never said companies can't make a profit.

How are they stealing fro you and why are you afraid to stand up for yourself?

There is where you are wrong. Capitalism rewards those that successfully put capital at risk. It does not reward the worker. The workers reward is that he has relatively little responsibility and headaches.

Upon what are you basing this number? Show your calculations please.

You can start by purchasing a few trucks and paying your drivers over $65,000 a year. No reason why you shouldn't be able to do it.

If you don't like the money drivers are paid then perhaps you should start your own company and then you can pay drivers as much as you want. I would love for you to explain to me how companies are stealing from drivers. And if you think that a janitor makes more than an otr driver then why don't you become a janitor? If this is such a lousy paying business then why are you sticking around? According to you and your minions you can make more working at McDonald's or as a janitor. What is stopping you? If I felt the way you do then there is NO way that I would stay in a business that I hated as much as you profess. Find something else to do or stop the whining.

No doubt, there are janitors that make more per week than OTR drivers. But......not very many, and those janitors are all union members, usually for companies like GM, FORD and Boeing. If you can get one of those jobs, go for it.

As for the guy who's company charges him for excess reefer fuel usage...and keeps him out for weeks on end, while he "brings home $500 a week".......Why does he continue doing that?? NOBODY holds a gun to his head. To many of the drivers out there, throw their money away on *****s...and video arcades. How do you know that he isn't one of them?

It takes dedication to earn $65,000 a year as a company driver. It means you give up time at home with the family and you work overtime. You work weekends and holidays. Lately....to many drivers want to be paid premium wages, without providing a premium service. If you are going to do something about wages, you have to have "Huts-pa" and valid information. Pissing and moaning on an internet forum......is "tilting at windmills".

I have done my fair share of "speaking out" against low driver wages. When I knew that lower management wasn't listening, I did something they least expected, and wrote letters to the corporate people in-charge of the operation. I sent valid wage information, as it regarded all aspects of the transportation side of their business, and relevant wage survey information to back up what I was saying.

That was then. I did that in 2006, and the result was raises for drivers, clerks, mechanics, dispatchers and supervisors. Some managers got fired or were forced to retire.

I don't do it anymore. Now.....If I am unhappy with "wages" I look for a better company and check it out. But first and foremost, I realize that I am in charge of my livelihood....not some uninterested manager or dispatcher.

I suggest you start keeping track of the truck expenses. Fuel, oil, coolant, tires, mechanical repairs, insurance, downtime (down time is lost revenue), wages, benefits....and take a look at just how much it costs to operate a truck. It isn't cheap, I can tell you that.

Snowman7, drives for an LTL carrier. LTL is a different operation from Truckload service, and generally makes far more revenue per load than does truckload (Go to UPS Freight and price what it costs to ship one 800 pound skid from say, Memphis to Knoxville, then figure out how many skids that truck might move). Snowman sought out his job, to get away from low wages. he didn't just sit and wait for better wages.

Mackman owns his own truck, and works "locally". His truck is a dump truck, and don't let him kid you. It takes money to keep that truck operating. He is lucky, because his father was able to get him connected with decent work. BUT.....He proved himself, so he continues to make good money, from those contacts. He makes good money....but he damn sure works his butt off for that money....the people he hauls for, don't pay him to haul a few shovels full of pebbles. If he doesn't work...he still has payments to make. Brandon was where you are at..............and took a huge chance when he stepped out and bought his own truck. IF he had a shoddy work habit......he would be sucking hind-teat and broke. Like I said....don't let him kid you. It isn't easy to make money with a truck.

"I heard a driver say blah, blah, blah...."

He was probably selling the reefer fuel. If the company caught him then damn right I say. They probably should've fired him.

I agree with Rank, Orange, (and as much as it pains me) GMAN. If you dont like it dont do it. The market is set by supply and demand and apparantly there are still alot of drivers willing to do it. If you dont like what your job pays your only choice is find a better one. You wont raise wages whining on a CB or internet forum. And if you just want someone to cry in your beer with you you probably wont find that here either. Most of the guys here are independent types who get things done and take care of business themselves. Look into other sectors of trucking or if you really want a challenge O/O.

The single most problem in the trucking industry is a lack of education / willingness to learn your industry amongst most of the participants.

Well now lets not get ahead of ourselves here... :lol:

This forum is comical, Down right hilarious.. i see why the industry is the way it is. the answer to everything is if you don't like what your doing then find something else to do... HILARIOUS... excuse me for wanting higher wages... I'm wrong... Excuse me for speaking up for my self or venting on a board that open to free discussion.. I see why people dislike trucker drivers.... And who ever said the problem is most people don't educate themselves on the industry is right.... It hard to educate yourself when your uneducated period..

Young Lad.......It is not a matter of "education". It is a matter of independence and willingness.

You can approach your employer for better wages. BUT....You want to have your facts straight, when you make that approach. The thought of raising wages industry wide, is a nice thought, but because of the Nature of the BEAST, that just is not realistic. There are numerous companies, that used to have their own truck fleets, whom paid incredible wages to their drivers, that no longer have those truck fleets. Whirlpool is one such.

I worked for ARCO in the Seattle market as a driver. ARCO had the best wages in the gasoline tanker industry on the west coast, and when they were nationwide, they ranked on a par with Amoco, Chevron, Texaco, Shell and Exxon. Well.......since 1998.....Amoco has merged with BP, ARCO was bought by BP, and in the last 4 years, BP has steadily worked to eliminate their truck fleet. The first thing they did, was dump the Amoco fleet after the merger. POOF...excellent wages and bennies....gone. BP has just about closed all of their trucks down. There are just a few left on the west coast. POOF....more good wages and bennies gone. Shell got rid of their truck operations in 1993.....POOF. Texaco got rid of their truck operations in 1993......POOF. Chevron is closing their truck operations right now. they have only 100 or so truck left operating, when they used to run more than 1500 nationwide. Exxon still runs trucks in new Jersey on the east coast, in Houston and Dallas, here in Texas, and in the Los Angeles market...for now. But even Exxon has been paring down their fleet...since 1992......POOF!!

ConocoPhillips / DuPont probably is the biggest player in the private truck fleet, after Walmart. Those two companies operate Sentinel Transportation as a joint venture, but I can tell you...wages there are only fair to middlun. Not the worst but no where close to the best.

GE operates trucks(They actually have 4 operating fleets AND Penske)...GE pays excellent wages.....BUT...GE is a harder company to break into than is Walmart.

If you want to raise driver wages.....You have several hundred trucking company executives to convince to do so. You're not going to get that done on any internet forum. It just isn't going to happen.

IF you are an excellent driver, then changing company's and increasing your wages is an easy thing to do. All you have to do, is find the truck seat that pays the wages and benefits you desire.

I have done it. Kentla has done it. Snowman7 did it. Mackman has done it. Just don't come here and ridicule those of us whom have replied to your post. Some of us bite....and bite hard!

If you want better money...FEDEX...UPS....Conway.....ABF......YRC.... .Old Dominion.......R & L Carriers........Walmart.......GE-Betz.......GE Appliances.....GE Water Process's......GE Wind........and Penske Logistics......are just a few names to start with.

NOW....It occurs to me that you started this in the Owner Operator forum. Is it possible that YOU are an owner operator??

I'm an owner Op and I was only speaking of my experience, never said I wanted to change anything, just stating my facts of life and what I feel should or could be done to make this profession better. Not worried about the GODS of this board because what one Eats never makes me S***. I've done my own thing for several years now, Just tired of arguing for my money. I run the Load Pay me simple as that.. You say the Load pays $2400 and the customer says it pays $3200, copy of confirmation sheet in hand. I never speak from ignorance.

Like I said before this is an open forum for those to express themselves, some call it complaining. Either way it goes we all have a right to say what we want. And I feel this industry needs a major overhaul. It doesn't have to start with me and I doubt it will, because I don't have the patience to deal with those who are content with life and little pay. But I'm sure it the Governments fault that we're in this predicament.. Hilarious... I see why Union don't exist anymore...

Orangetxguy- as I'm sure you know, the only reason those private fleets went away was due to cheaper outsourcing. If we can get this company to do it for XYZ, well we can save a ton of money. The day Walmart closes their private fleet is the day they go out of business because products will never make it to the shelf in time..Yes you save a few dollars but at what expense to the company, in the long run if you factor in the expense you pay to out source DO YOU REALLY SAVE ANY MONEY?

OKAY! See......You just changed the entire parameter of this discussion! There is a huge difference between being an "owner operator" working on percentage of gross revenue and a "company driver"....OR....IN YOUR CASE "maybe"....... as a Carrier working for brokers and shippers?? Do you run under your own authority....or are you leased into a company and running your equipment under their flag??

I understand now....WHAT you are pissed about. BUT......Your not talking wages. YOU are talking about REVENUE and HONESTY. I wish I had an answer to lying cheating brokers (and dispatchers), But I don't, except to say...IF you caught a Broker cheating you....put the broker's name out there for everyone to know. Put it on Getloaded's message board...put it on Internet Truckstop (they did start a message board didn't they??) My point is....put them out of business by telling their sin. If other trucks stop pulling their freight...that settles that.

BUt....when you start talking about improving "Drivers Wages".......THAT is an entirely different horse....Which most of us assumed you were talking about, given your rant.

As for you Gman, I understand your well respected around here, but you really need to come out of hiding and talk to some drivers @ trucks stop.. Drivers fight for pay all the time, It"s neither here nor there what they do with they're money. If s/he chooses to play video games with it then that's their choice, but i'm not speaking of the ladder, I'm talking about the hard working drivers that run and choose to support their family (We all know some good drivers that have been or are getting screwed). Those are the drivers I'm talking about.... But as always we choose to pick the bad litter to make our points valid, Hilarious.. Regardless of what a person does with their money $1000 a week (before taxes) is not good money when you spend 7 nights a week away from home.

I've run under a companies authority, found it to be one of the worst decisions ever. Grew tired of losing money to them over BS and now I'm Independent and at time it not better but manageable.. Cutting out the Middle man was a major factor in me staying in trucking.

See......You run under your own authority.....so.....you are exactly like Gman.....YOU are officially a "Motor Carrier". You have to right to haul directly for the company paying the freight bill, as well as for brokers.

It seems to me, you are pissed off because you have found a lying cheating broker. So....what can you do about that? You're not likely to change the broker, unless you convince his truck customers to stop hauling for him....but that is not likely to happen....because he will always find someone to haul his freight.

what i see the problem is: people do not want to work for their money. the money is still there YOU need to find it. you say you want to cut the middle man out? so do it.

I haven't been hiding. I talk to drivers all the time. I don't hear many of them complaining about their wages. I do hear independents and owner operators sometimes complain about rates.
Let me explain a little about the free enterprise system. As long as I can remember, people have wanted to better themselves. The way most would better themselves would be to save their money, get a good education or learn their craft and start their own business. Getting ahead is a very simple concept. The problem is that most people are not willing to put themselves out or do what is necessary to get ahead. Minimum wage was never intended to be the permanent wage for most Americans. It was a starting point. Millions of people started working at minimum wage so that they could learn, save and better themselves. If you are not earning the money you want or think you deserve, it is noone else fault but your own. We all make life decisions. Some are good and others are not. There have been countless individuals who have come out of poverty to achieve greatness in their lifetime. I remember hearing a story about Aristotle Onasis. He came from a very poor background. He began, as I recall, by selling cigars as a boy. He reinvested his earnings and built one of the great shipping empires. He didn't whine about not earning enough money, he saved and invested his money and put forth the effort to achieve his goals. You talk like $50,000 is minimum wage. It isn't. Many people would give anything to be able to earn that amount of money. It is a good living for most people.

As an owner of a business you are not required to pay employees a percentage of the earnings. An employee has nothing invested in that business and is not entitled to share in the profits. The only thing an employee is entitled to is a fair paycheck. If you don't think that $50,000 is a fair paycheck, then you need to find something else to do. If you want to be paid a fair share of the profits then you need to buy stock in the company and put your own capital at risk. An employee can walk away if their company fails. If you own the company, everything you own could be at risk. If you own a business, as you state, then I am surprised that you don't already know this. You don't have to employ a lot of people to have a company. A company can consist of one person.

I'm confused. The OP was about how companies rip off drivers and how the drivers should be paid north of $65K. Now we find out you're a carrier....I am still waiting for your business model that shows how you can afford to put a driver in your truck and pay him $65 large. It's easy to talk about what other people should do, but if you are not part of the solution, you are part of the problem.

I made a statement about Driver wages in this industry, I never said $50,000 was bad money, I said $1000 a week is bad money and your assuming that this driver is going to work 50 of the 52 weeks a year. How realistic is this? Drivers have families and lives at home, after taxes $50,000 becomes $35,000 to $40,000 all depending on you situation at home (MAYBE EVEN LESS). Once again I stated that the wages could go up in this industry, especially for the time spent on the road away from home, But I see that you think $35,000 after taxes or even $50,000 before taxes is good money for a man or woman spending weeks away from the house.. What's wrong with improving driver welfare. I see the rate and companies can afford to pay a driver $65,000. Conway truckload (CFI), Abilene Motor Express, they profit big time and they pay drivers respected wages..

It's not my fault you assumed I was a driver. I simply made a statement and you guys went in a totally different direction. Everyone whose frustrated is not always at the bottom of the totem pole. As for my situation, I'm tired of arguing with brokers and companies about my money. Even as an O/O leased to a carrier i had issues with the money being paid out after I pulled or even before I pulled the load. You say companies assume all the risk well what about the O/O that has his truck and trailer leased to you.. There is always going to be risk in everything, doesn't mean you pay as little as possible to get something move. This is exactly why companies and brokers continue to rip drivers and O/O off because we think like this.

Doctors/ lawyers and even the plumber won't preform work for you unless you give them the money they ask for. Set the rates don't settle for what they want to give you...

Toby, are you the guy that runs out of the Baltimore area?

Depends on how bad they want your business.

RostyC, Nope not me. I used to pull for a company that ran to that area.

Bigmon, you are exactly right but please believe it a one time deal and it won't occur often. They have set rates and if you don't wanna pay the premium, then take your business else where. But that not the case in trucking the whole industry is on board for low wages/ Rates. Move it for as cheap as possible... To some this is the best way of doing things because of Capitalism LMAO....

I appreciate all the feed back from this board. I will go back quiet now and continue reading the great post from members. I just wanted to rant about an experience....

Not every driver is out weeks on end. We are home 3-5 nights/days a week. There are plenty of employees in the world---I dare say most--- that only get 2 weeks vacation a year. This attitude is exactly why civilizations decline.... later generations think for some reason that they shouldn't have to work as hard as their parents.

[QUOTE=Tobytob;497831 doesn't mean you pay as little as possible to get something move.

QUOTE]

Your wrong right there. Ever hear of minimize risk/expense and maximize profits? Thats kinda the whole idea behind capitolism.

All my statements are wrong, My point well never be attained in this discussion, therefore I plead the fifth. Have a nice day!!1

I just figured it out.. he is arguing and yelling at himself, for paying himself low wages.

Tobytob, the majority of the workers in Transportation are underpaid and overworked. Once you start to grow your trucking company, you will under pay your employees also (they will make the same statements youve made). Have you cut out the middle man yet? No you havent because youre complaining about a broker making a $800 commission off of you. You accepted the rate. How much should he have made? How many direct customers are you servicing? The majority of the company drivers that I have known have little to no desire to make $50-$65K++ per year. I have had a small amount of company drivers to make $75K+ but they didnt do it running a bunch of miles. They did it by working in the trailer, but "steering wheel holders" dont want to get in the trailer and some want to be home every weekend. I understand your argument, but i have also been on the other side of your argument. It is what it is and we cant change it. You wont change it. When drivers and O/Os start fattening your pockets, you will be on the other side of this argument. You will see and it wont take long.

I see a lot of drivers complaining about how the market doesn't want to pay them their fair share. They blame the free market. I say turn it around and use what you can against the free market. The biggest factor in this is which carrier you choose to drive for. It's as simple as that. I'm not talking about jumping to a new carrier every few months because the grass is greener. Research needs to be done on any potential new carrier (or your own gig).

This free market excersize is simply the #1 way we can influence wages and our treatment. How do I know? It worked splendidly at our company. When fuel prices started to go up last year, our surcharge was way behind. Around 15% of our drivers(our company is mostly o/o) quit. All of a sudden our FSC is fixed, and even a small raise in January.

This topic is hilarious! Totybob, the sooner you'll realize, that "world" owns you nothing, the better you'll be.

I see what he is saying.

A buddy of mine just bought a brand new Case 590 backhoe. Paid 90,000 for it and when he rents it out he gets 700/day. A brand new tri/axle dump is 145,000 and when you rent it out your lucky to get 640/day. These are 8hr days. Plus a back hoe you dont have to pay no insurance on it and it isnt a high wear item like the dump trucks are. Tires last forever on a backhoe and in an 8hr day a backhoe might burn 15gal of fuel. It should be the other way around but it isnt.

Maybe he is just trying to vent his frustrations, & being out on the road with not many to listen to ya, other than other operators who may feel the same way, he vented here.