I'm thinking of bailing out
 

I have owned my own trucks since '93 and every year I have grossed more and feel like I have neted(sp?) less and all the important people in my life hurt when I'm gone so,when an offer to stay home more is put before me I like to think about it and I have one again.
The question for now is,I am two years deep into a five year note on my truck and I'm not sure about what kind of shape I'm in with IRS vs dep'r + worth of truck,'05 KW W9 w/most every option i.e./dura brights,painted tanks,wet line,all factory stainless,full locks on and on.The way I feel now if I could cut and run with enough to bail me out I would.
Does anyone else have a crying towel as wet as mine :?: :?: :?: I do not see bright times ahead for O/O's just look at the way the "J" now post's their fuel price on their site.
"My heart is in truckin' but, my azz is in debt" :lol:

I think most owner operators are having a difficult time, especially if they are heavy in debt. We are in a slow down. I am sorry about your situation. Things will improve, but it will likely be after the first of next year before much improvement is seen. Before making any major decision, it would be good to find out your situation with the IRS. I would also probably be good to find out what your truck is worth and the pay off. If you can hang in there, you may be much better off than you think. 8)

Slow down started a bit early this year

Always slow before an election.

Mudawg, first one to talk too is your accounatant, he will tell you how to go about this, keep in mind there will be capital gains tax also, UNLESS you invest in another buisness.

Newer higher priced trucks are usually tough to sell, only because a brand new one is only a "few dollars"more. That is unless its a "steal" which I'm sure you don't want to give it away.

I also have grossed more BUT I also netted more, you say it as if you don't know whether you did or not.

Sure costs have gone up and so has operating expenses, BUT all in all I'm still doing better than the previous year.

Thanks for the words of wisdom guys.When I get home it's time for an appointment with the accountant.I know they say better times are ahead and I do have the seasonal gig with UPS coming up but,right now sitting in Cal. with nothing but time to think about the current situation it gets me to wonder why do this???
I don't want to make any rash decisions that will hurt me in the long run but if by the first of the year things are still looking bleak it may be time to get a job with a future.

Did you ever look into local driving? There are so many opportunities out there. In my area good drivers are always in need. For instance, local large construction company's looking for equipment movers, dump trailer work. Big construction/building material company's a lot of times are union jobs with benefits. The company's by me pay fairly well too. While you are waiting to see how things are going to pan out, do some local research. I am sure you can find some local O/O work if you dig around enough. That might not have the benefits you are looking for though. But it will keep you close to home. I enjoy local work, but like to go out every once and a while. I hope things work out for you, good luck.

sidman that thought is in my head and I have done some good local jobs in the past but,they all seem to be very seasonal.Have hauled oil in the winter and dirt in the warmer months but,there are times the two over lap and you end up getting two outfits mad you can't be in both places at one time.I do like what I do now,excapt when things get slow and the doe stops coming in.I've got to learn to say no to loads going West of I-35.
I guess I'm just in a truckin' depression and things will come around.

Well, this year, i've grossed less, net less, and worked less...
I'm still with the same company, for 9+years, so it's easy to compare.
I was thinking in a few occasions, if i should move in a different field, but never, never, was even think, about going to be a company driver again! :shock: :D

Yeah, I get them every once in a while, they don't last to long. 8)

I never had a slow down prior to an Election

Things could change quite a bit if the American Trucking Association and some of the big carriers such as Schneider have their way. They want to bring in foreign drivers and put speed limiters from the factory on ALL trucks and make it illegal to tamper with them. This is not just their trucks but everyone's trucks.

I think the reason things seemed easier under Slick Willy is because they were too busy following Monica and all the other scandals he and Hillary were a part. It kept Congress too busy to get as many useless laws passed. One thing to keep in mind is that business runs in cycles. This is merely a business cycle. I don't think it really has anything to do with Bush. I believe it would be happening to anyone who was in office. Frankly, I am not sure that it makes much difference who is in office. They all seem to be out for themselves.

Now, back to topic. I hate to see you thinking of giving up the ghost. I understand your frustration, mudawg. Have you considered getting rid of the new windcatcher and getting something less expensive to pay for and operate? You could increase your fuel mileage by 20% and add that to your bottom line. I almost bought a W900 a couple of years ago myself. I am very thankful that I didn't. Since I looked at them, I know what type of payment you are facing every month. That is a lot of cash outlay, plus insurance is much more expensive on a newer, more expensive truck. What ever you decide, I am sure things will work out for the best.

I know I do lash out at the right wingers a lot but it is not uncalled for IMO.As far as trading the truck,I do understand the advantages of the "ant eater" style having owned some but,as far as buying one new the cost is less than a grand and trade time the cost is way over whatever you would save in fuel (with the smog engines we are forced into having)The monthly payment on my '05 is only $500 p/month more than my '96 was (2 trucks ago)Don't you think we all should be able to absorb such a meaningless rise?????in ten years....The numbers just don't add up,to me.
In 1947 my grandfather's company got more than a grand and two and a half days to go to NYC from Boston,where all the road driver did was meet the local guy in his car in the city and went to the hotel where the guy banged on his door when the trailer (35ft) was loaded again and off he went.Today back and forth for half the money (not including inflation)in one third the time.!!!!!!70+ years later we work for less money?!?!?!?!?!Remember in his day fuel was a nickle or p/gal and a new truck was a grand.
I feel like I'm stuck in a bad marriage.I got into it because I love it but,now that I'm here I wish I could find a way out.

I'm having a bit of a problem with the concept of "buy a new truck". Mine is nearly paid off, and the one thing I realize after the years of paying, is that it isn't making one thin dime for ME until it isn't supporting a finance company anymore. And, now especially. New oils, new ultra-low sulfur fuels, particle filters. The more you put onto a simple piece of machinery, the more there is to go wrong with it. When mine is fully paid for, it's going to be around for a while. I want to take some time to go fishing. There are trucks with more than 5 million miles on them, and they are still doing the same job as mine is. I didn't buy a truck to keep a finance company in business. I bought it so that at some point, it's going to bring in the money so that I can do some of the things I want to do. That won't happen till the finance company signs off on it. Why should I go right back into debt again?

No matter what kind of truck you have, you are not likely to get your money out of it by selling it. With the number of years you've owned your own truck, you've been trading in and running a shiny new one a few times. If your truck was paid off, you could park it and try the new job. If you like it, stay with it and sell the truck for what you can get. If you don't like it, or the diesel in your blood starts complaining, you can put it back on the road. From what you've had to say, it sounds to me like you're "STUCK". Nice having a new truck, but you may find yourself "MARRIED" to it.

Here we go again! :D
New, or old, you are "married" to it anyway, it's just matter of personal preferences, and comfort level.
Just as in a real marriage, it's just different type of "activities"! :P

But only time, will tell, if it was real "deal".

And once again, i believe, it doesn't really much matter. The only really matter is, if you are making it, or not!
I've even started O/O business, with a new truck, and no reserve, which is a NO! NO!, in a most popular opinion.
10+ years, i'm still in business, still with the bought new truck, and plenty of "reserve".

May be i just got lucky,...or may be i did something right, ....or both... :roll: :D :wink:

Sometimes you can get lucky and not have to spend a lot of money on a major breakdown. Sometimes everything goes right. Sometimes they don't. It is that you should be prepared for most contingencies. There is no way to be 100% prepared for any and everything which can go wrong. Even if you have a new truck things can break and may not be covered under a warranty. The difference is that if you have a cheap truck payment or a truck that is paid off, you have more options open to you. There is not the stress of having to make a $2,000+ monthly truck payment along with major repairs. When things slow down, you are still obligated to make those high truck payments. If your truck is paid off or you have a cheap payment, you can find a driving job and not ruin your credit because you can't make the large truck payments.

Mudawg, you are right about costs being much lower a few decades ago. I remember when diesel and kerosene were selling for around $0.15-0.17/gallon. You could buy a new truck for $25-32M (thousand for you, Rev) :wink: Freight rates are somewhat suppressed right now because owner operators continue to haul freight for fuel money. If they would let the freight sit on the shipper's docks, rates would come up. It is difficult to get that concept across to some people. If it doesn't make a profit for you, don't take the load. It can be difficult for some who have high financial obligations to pass on any load. However, if you are only buying fuel money or breaking even, you would be better off sitting or deadheading out of an area. I do hope you can get things worked out, Mudawg. Things will improve somewhat, after the election.

I was talking to another driver about my thoughts and he said 10 years from now I would still be thinking about bailing which made me laugh because I know he was right :lol:
GMAN I have been known to dead head quite a ways and leave the cheap stuff stay on the ground but,there is always a long list of those "will work for chrome/fuel" drivers right there and shippers/agents + brokers know it.We need more folks like us in this racket. :D

It is so much better to let that cheap freight sit. The problem is someone else hauls it so the shipper thinks the rate is okay. I opened an email today from a shipper that was offering lumber loads at $1.15 per mile. It wont go on my trucks, but someone will take it. :cry:

I can't wait until tomorrow. I saw an OD load posted as a partial. It was 10' tall and 10' wide and I believe 14' long. I will be surprised if they want to pay more than $1.50 including permits. It will need to go on either a step deck or double drop because of the height. A standard flat would be too tall.

I too am thinking of getting out
 

Here is my story.

Bought old truck and trailer 2 weeks before Katrina hit. A little over a year now I have been running my own authority. freight rates are rock bottom and sometimes I just deadhead out if I can't find paying freight. I put over 12000 dollars in the past few months in my truck and trailer. last sunday I headed out for wilkes barre, pa with my load, I only got about 80 miles from home and the truck threw a lifter roller through the engine block. To make a long story short I am now driving a Penske truck temporarily. I am not sure I want to buy another truck or put a new motor in the other truck for 25 grand. It is constantly a struggle to find freight that will even pay 1.50 a mile. I haul flowers part time but not much of that this fall. It pays a little better but more work involved which I don't mind

Backhauls are nightmare lately!!! 1.05 a mile, NO WAY!!!

This is more of a general question and not directed towards Mudawg. You all know I know dick about the industry but I see lots of posts about people in trouble and not making it due to cheap loads. I belong to a few load boards and I just went in to the internet truckstop and did a few checks. I may be wrong but they are many places I could go if I were in trouble. I could run 7 days a week between PA and OH for example and I see rates that are actually posted anywhere from $1.40 to $1.70. Even at $1.40 and running back and forth would be more than enough to keep one out of trouble. You would have to stay away from home for maybe 3 or 4 weeks at a time going to where the work is. I may be over simplifying the problem but can't you just go where the work is instead of waiting around for work in your local area?

Yes, that's how it suppose to be done, unless you have some "special deal" is going on.
But here is a problem, the rates you see on those "boards", is a loaded rate, per "book" mile.
It doesn't include DH, and actual "out of route miles". And that will drop that rate for 15-20%.

For example, my average "loaded book mile" rate for this year is $1.91 a mile. Yet my "all hub miles run" is just $1.61. And that's including all "extras", FSC, stops, detention...etc.
If you work for brokers, those "extras", may be hard to get. :roll:

Another problem, is that you have to maintain a certain gross, per day average. 2 buck a mile freight, would do you no good, on a 2-3 hundred miles loads, cause most likely, that's all you will be able to do, in that day.

You see, i've said it before, but will repeat again;-Everything in this business, is not what it seems from outside! And "paper" numbers, never match the real ones. And that "rule" ignored, got a lot of folks in trouble! :?

Steve, The guy that got in trouble spent too many days waiting for the freight to come to him. You must preplan your freight. The point here is plan, most dont have a plan except $$$$$$$. They dont understand they have to plan to make the $$$$$ and tweaking the plan and running OH<-->PA may be necessary. Posting the pity party here is definitely not part of the plan or necessary

One reason a lot of owner operators get into trouble is that they only want to run in one specific area. Freight can change according to the season. For instance, when the weather is cold and snowing, some won't run in those areas, so rates tend to be higher. Rates may actually drop in the sunbelt during that time because of so many who want to stay out of the bad weather. This is a business, and things happen. I am not sure why you would need to spend $25,000 on a rebuild, jdtj63. Depending on what needs to be done, you should be able to do it for somewhere between $9-15M. You may be able to replace the entire truck for that amount of money. An engine is the most expensive part of this business. Once you have a new engine, it is almost like having a new truck. At least you could avoid the large truck payments. What type of engine to you have?

I'll tell you what I did, been dump trucking for ten years and got the slow pay no pay old truck blues, I got them so bad I sold my truck and went to work selling cars only made about $50 a day. Got the itch to drive again and pay at least half my bills so I drove for Budweiser at $16.50 an hour I stayed only a few months. All this took place over the course of 11months. Thank god I was able to save most of the cash from the old truck I am back in it with a renewed excitement,kind of like a self initiated kick in the butt, I have had the best 2 years ever and keep trucking in fear of going back to working for "The man". Didn't know what I had till it was gone,you need to do what is best for you,for me it worked out just think it through.

Definitely a slowdown in the past couple weeks, and the rates have gone from poor to abysmal in my run areas ( OR WA ID NV UT).

Sometimes, it becomes necessary to move to a different area to find the better paying freight. Rates have been soft for a couple of months, now. I am seeing a slight upturn in some areas.

I wish I could move to another area Gman... I am still stuck running my 300 air mile circle, which limits my run area. Hoping that come Dec. 5 when my insurance makes it's one year mark that I will be able to get that restriction removed... :?

When Ultra Lights first came out we use to watch them give instructions at the local Mall on Sunday because they were closed. It was a semi pulling a flatbed with an Ultra Light tied down with ropes and a chair sitting in front of the plane for the instructor to give the student instructions. The plane could probably move maybe 5 feet in any direction.

Well, Mountain Flyer, at least you only have about one more month. I hope they lift their restriction. I am sending you a pm on someone you may check with in your area.

Can't remember if your with Progressive but they only do a 300 mile radius no matter how much experience you have so I think you could be stuck with them for 2 years until someone else will handle you.



From there website.

Trucking Businesses We Insure


We can insure you if you use your truck in any of the following businesses:

* dirt, sand and gravel hauling
* logging
* local trucking, including courier and expedited freight
* tractor-trailers (up to 300 miles)
* auto transportation and hauling

You know, it's too bad with the driver shortage only expected to get worse that a able willing guy who wants to be an O/O can't make it with all the things working against him, fuel, brokers etc.
You'd think if someone was willing to offer his services to the industry he'd be sure to make it. Granted it is a business and there are always those who can screw up a good thing. Not sure if I made my point the way I intended.
Might be a differ ant topic or thread but what about using C H Robinson as a broker. I met a guy a while back who had his own authority and used them.
He said he didn't even want a call if it didn't pay better than $2.00 /mile. Not sure if he was bullsitting

I would sure like to have $2.00 or more per mile on a regular basis.

CH Robinson has a reputation for having cheap freight, but they do have some decent paying loads. You will find different rates based upon the capacity within an area, time of year and type of freight. The more specialized the freight requirements, the higher rate you can command. I have met independents who only haul for CH Robinson. Most pull vans. They seem to have more van freight than anything else. They do have quite a bit of flat bed freight. It is not unreasonable to expect $2/mile to haul freight. It may require additional leg work, however. It may also be difficult in some areas of the country. There are some people who are afraid to sit so they take the first load that is offered, regardless of the rate. That is the reason some rates tend to be suppressed. These brokers and shippers know that they can find someone to move their freight for next to nothing. Then there are those who plan and work to get the higher paying loads.

Threw the towel in 6 months ago...
 

I'm one of those guys that's been in it for a long time, tried it every which way but loose, do ALL my own repairs including, but not limited to, services, brakes, most of the engine work I've needed, electrical, just everything and anything to save a buck. And I did. Bought a '97 in 2000, drove it and paid for it, and ran it 2 more years while enjoying the "no payment plan", and still ended up having a hard time.(This isn't my first rodeo, just telling the latest story of my adventures in truckin'...) The maintanence costs associated with a used truck, in my situation anyways, were excessive to say the least, even with all my sweat equity. But I justified it with continuing to say, "at least she's paid for..."
I was getting deeper in debt with the KGB (I mean, IRS,) due to the fact that it was hard to retain that reserve quarterly tax money when I was having trouble paying all my bills due to the spike in fuel costs. It wasn't for lack of effort or knowledge on my part, it was just a matter of economics as I see it. We all love what we do, and continue it because of that love, and that's honorable for sure. But sometimes, when things get "out of shape" financially and we find ourselves struggling harder than we used to, it pays to stop and take a survey of what's going on. I certainly did one day, and saw that I wasn't producing enough surplus revenue to allow for equipment replacement, or have a decent cash reserve for emergencies, etc. It's a good rule of thumb to have a cash emergency fund of 3-6 months of operating expenses including household expenses on hand, in case of a major hiccup in work, revenue, etc. With that said, it's obvious a lot of us are running close every week/month.
I parked the 'ol gal 6 months ago, and adjusted my once-ignorant attitude to enable myself to be gainfully employed, and since then, my wife and I are seeing that the 8-9-1000 bucks a week I bring in is actually sticking around now, instead of morphing into a set of steering tires, or fuel, or one of the many other incidentals related to this sport.
I'm not getting rich working for the man, and even lost my job suddenly last week and am scrambling for another one currently, but I can't muster up the 5K I'd need to register, insure, tire-up and fuel my 'ol Pete again, so it's off to the breadline once again...
Mama didn't say it was gonna be easy...

Thanks fer listenin'.

My wise Uncle Bill always said, "The harder you work, the luckier you get..." Ain't that the truth guys...