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-   -   Log Book Pages & Court (https://www.classadrivers.com/forum/new-truck-drivers-get-help-here/37581-log-book-pages-court.html)

--grande-- 04-06-2009 04:40 PM

Log Book Pages & Court
 
Can I use my log book as a defence in court? I got a speeding ticket, but according to my log book the time I got pulled over, and ticketed I was running an average of 51 miles an hour. I got ticketed for 67 in a 55, but my truck only runs 62 mph. :eek2: I have to goto court, can not afford an lawyer, sure as hell can not afford the ticket.

matcat 04-06-2009 04:45 PM

I don't think the log book will do you much good, because it could easily be manipulated. But being governed you can use the company as a witness to state for you the truck was indeed governed at the time, you may also need to prove there was no hill or grade where the alleged speeding took place so that no one can say you coasted to up that speed.

dobry4u 04-06-2009 04:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by --grande-- (Post 445435)
Can I use my log book as a defence in court? I got a speeding ticket, but according to my log book the time I got pulled over, and ticketed I was running an average of 51 miles an hour. I got ticketed for 67 in a 55, but my truck only runs 62 mph. :eek2: I have to goto court, can not afford an lawyer, sure as hell can not afford the ticket.


You can offer the log book to the judge but it isn't going to take precedence (not clear and convincing) over the officer's statement or gun reading. I think a letter from your employer certifying that the truck is governed at 62 will help, but if you were going down an hill, you better get a lawyer, IMHO anyway.

or.. what Matcat said ;)

--grande-- 04-06-2009 05:22 PM

I was not going down hill, the officer was sitting under a over pass blacked out, he shot me with the radar gun mounted in his back window. There at the time of the reading was a 4 wheeler passing me. I know this because I had a detector in the truck with me at the time. I was speeding, 62mph in a 55, not 67mph. He came to the truck and told me i was doing 67mph I told him the truck is governed at 62mph, he laughed and said ya right.:pissedoff: I was like OK, he also gave the copany I work for a ticket for the tractor not being registered. We just got the truck and were waiting for the tags in the mail, I showed him the paperwork that stated the truck was legal, he said no I want the cab card. I told him the cab cards had not cam in yet, he still gave them a ticket :hellno:

dollarshort 04-06-2009 05:37 PM

This is what the judge will tell you......You may show an "average" speed of 51, but it only takes 5 seconds to go 67. This will not affect your average speed much. Seems you had a few second mental lapse.

matcat 04-06-2009 05:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by --grande-- (Post 445444)
I was not going down hill, the officer was sitting under a over pass blacked out, he shot me with the radar gun mounted in his back window. There at the time of the reading was a 4 wheeler passing me. I know this because I had a detector in the truck with me at the time. I was speeding, 62mph in a 55, not 67mph. He came to the truck and told me i was doing 67mph I told him the truck is governed at 62mph, he laughed and said ya right.:pissedoff: I was like OK, he also gave the copany I work for a ticket for the tractor not being registered. We just got the truck and were waiting for the tags in the mail, I showed him the paperwork that stated the truck was legal, he said no I want the cab card. I told him the cab cards had not cam in yet, he still gave them a ticket :hellno:

Well it sounds like the company will get to go to court as well, there is your witness for it being governed ;)

--grande-- 04-06-2009 05:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dollarshort (Post 445446)
Seems you had a few second mental lapse.


How the truck only runs 62 :banghead:

dobry4u 04-06-2009 06:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by matcat (Post 445447)
Well it sounds like the company will get to go to court as well, there is your witness for it being governed ;)

I am guessing the company will mail their fine in. The OP though, probably will get going 12 over when the OP goes to court without representation (a lawyer) :tears: because 62 is still speeding and the court usually sides with the po-po.

Rev.Vassago 04-06-2009 06:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by --grande-- (Post 445444)
There at the time of the reading was a 4 wheeler passing me. I know this because I had a detector in the truck with me at the time. I was speeding, 62mph in a 55, not 67mph.

1. Detectors are illegal in CMV's.
2. You were speeding, therefore you were (by your own admission) breaking the law.
3. A log book isn't going to help you, as it will not show the exact speed you were going at the time you were cited.

Your best bet is to get a lawyer to get the ticket reduced or dismissed.

golfhobo 04-06-2009 06:53 PM

Were you heading toward L.A?? If so, tell the judge it wasn't your fault. You were standing on the brakes but being pulled forward by an irresistable force! i.e: L.A. SUX!!! :lol:

jorlee 04-06-2009 07:53 PM

Get notorized letter from you company stating what the truck is capable of going.

If your company has GPS tracking, see if you can get a printout of the time frame this speeding even occured.

Contest the rate of speed, not the the fact you were speeding.

matcat 04-06-2009 08:45 PM

Yeah don't even say what speed you where doing, just work on proving that the truck cannot even do the speed you are accused of. You can go online and print a topo map of the exact area you where pulled over at, a topo (topographic map) will show elevation data, and will show that no hill was present or big enough for you to get going to 67 mph, and simply a notorized letter or company rep will easily be able to tell the courts that the truck is governed at 62mph which therefor makes it impossible for you to go 67mph.

The company would be foolish to just accept that ticket. If you had all of the proper paperwork to show the truck was legal, then there is no reason for the company to just pay it, it will effect their safety rating. Even though they are two seperate tickets and two seperate cases in court, you can still use that ticket to your advantage to discredit the officer by proving the truck was legal at the time aswell.

Personally I would recomend joining one of them driver legal plans, the one I know of is $3 or 4 a week, and for a ticket such as that I think they only charge $100 to represent you. check it out Drivers Legal Plan

I haven't joined their plan yet, but I am going to very soon, and as far as I know you can join them and still get the special price even after the ticket happened.

Hell if you cannot afford the $14 fee to sign up and $100 to get the lawyer into the court room for you, then you need to re-evaluate your job situation and or lifestyle ;)

golfhobo 04-06-2009 08:46 PM

Have 'em download the info from your truck's black box. Doesn't that show the speeds you reached at the time the radar gun "hit" you?

At any rate..... it was LESS than 15 over. NOT a "major violation." Save the lawyer fees, pay the fine, and slow the heck DOWN!

IF you'd been doing 64, I doubt the cop would have pulled you. Been passed by cops while doing that MANY times in Cali! They're just NOT going to let you get away with 12 over!

GMAN 04-07-2009 03:09 AM

You were charged for doing 65 mph in a truck that will only do 62. If the ground was level then there is no way that you could have been going that fast. I am not sure that I would admit any guilt. All you need to do is prove or create reasonable doubt as to the charge. If your truck is unable to do 65 then you are not guilty of the charge. It may be true that you were speeding but you are not guilty of the charge of doing 65. You could pull a printout of the computer which should show your maximum speed. If that isn't available then you might try just disputing the 65 mph charge by getting a letter from your company on their letterhead stating that fact. You may also want to bring proof that you had a valid registration. Essentially, you need to attack the credibility of the officer. If you can demonstrate that he was not credible on one charge you have a good chance of casting doubt on the other charge.

repete 04-07-2009 08:12 AM

If your going to plead not guilty then ask for a supporting depistion from the arresting officer, he will have 30 days ( at least in NY) to get it to you if at that time you have not recieved it you will have a chance of getting the ticket tossed out. If he does send it to you than that says everything that happened(in his view) and he can't really add to it in court so that gives you an edge on what he's going to say! If it doesn't mention you going down hill than you didn't! On the back of the ticket there should be a box asking if you want the depistion. sorry I can't spell worth a ----

GMAN 04-07-2009 11:35 AM

I believe you are referring to a deposition, repete.

--grande-- 04-07-2009 08:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by golfhobo (Post 445474)
Have 'em download the info from your truck's black box.


We did that and I guess that when our trucks belonged to Kennishaw (sp) they had them set up on the cruz at 68 :thumbsdown: When I got the truck I was told it did 65 cruz, and 62 peddle, but we just found out that it was 68 on the cruz, and 62 on the peddle. The cruz has not worked since I have had the truck so I had no idea. But with the print out from the black box shows differant then the company told me :angryblue:

Guess I should get an lawyer, and let them deal with it :roll:

jorlee 04-08-2009 12:22 AM

If you cruise control don't work. Get a mechanic to certifiy a letter that it was not operational. Wouldn't that work?

GMAN 04-08-2009 01:31 AM

You might try to plead it down yourself but it would probably be best to get an attorney and let them handle it. If you go through one of those trucker legal plans it should not cost too much.

movinit 04-08-2009 02:59 AM

Before you show up in court with letters in hand from any mechanics or your company make sure you check to see if the documents alone are allowed, for a lot of courts require the expert to testify in person.

repete 04-08-2009 07:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GMAN (Post 445576)
I believe you are referring to a deposition, repete.

yeah , what he said. Thanks G

Blacksheep 04-08-2009 09:25 PM

If your truck has a speed limiter the shop can access that and print out what the road speed is set at, then take that with you to court as evedence that the truck could not achieve the speed you were ticketed for.

There is exceptions to that, grades for one.

got mud? 04-11-2009 10:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by --grande-- (Post 445444)
I was not going down hill, the officer was sitting under a over pass blacked out, he shot me with the radar gun mounted in his back window. There at the time of the reading was a 4 wheeler passing me. I know this because I had a detector in the truck with me at the time. I was speeding, 62mph in a 55, not 67mph. He came to the truck and told me i was doing 67mph I told him the truck is governed at 62mph, he laughed and said ya right.:pissedoff: I was like OK, he also gave the copany I work for a ticket for the tractor not being registered. We just got the truck and were waiting for the tags in the mail, I showed him the paperwork that stated the truck was legal, he said no I want the cab card. I told him the cab cards had not cam in yet, he still gave them a ticket :hellno:

chances are he knew how fast the car was going and how fast you where going. the radar will tell him which is the fastest vehicle and which is the strongest signal. (he will get two speeds on his detector) you being the truck and the bigger vehicle will have the strongest signal. also most officers are trained to judge your speed with there eyes and use the radar to back up there eye witness account. most officers can judge speed within 5 miles an hour and some are dead on all the time. (you spend hours doing it, it comes naturaly). he probably decided to give you the ticket because 80,000lbs speeding is more dangerous than 3,000. your best bet is to get a lawyer and plea it out. I wouldn't go into court and mention your radar detector or anything else. also most courts do not allow letters or statements as evidence unless the court or prosecutor can cross examine the witness. bol.

jonp 04-14-2009 11:18 AM

Unless I'm mistaken and I'm sure someone here will correct me, every commercial vehicle in the US has a computer in it. At least the newer ones do. You can have the company draw a vehicle history from it showing your speed a different times during the past. Have then draw it for that day and mail it to court and it will show you not doing the speed that the officer said you were and what the ticket says you were doing. Since it will show that you will win the case.

If you have a qualcom its even easier. As for the reg/cab card, I wouldnt worry about that. That's up to the company to fix not you.

Your logbook can only be used for average speed not individual speeds at a given time. It is admissible in a court of law that is why you can get a ticket messing it up and officers can use it to give you one or shut you down based on it. Once you sign the page you are attesting to what is written there and it can convict you if presented as evidence in, say, a ticket for not taking a 10 hour break or saying your one place when the officer has you stopped somewhere else.

jonp 04-14-2009 11:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by got mud? (Post 446180)
chances are he knew how fast the car was going and how fast you where going. the radar will tell him which is the fastest vehicle and which is the strongest signal. (he will get two speeds on his detector) you being the truck and the bigger vehicle will have the strongest signal. also most officers are trained to judge your speed with there eyes and use the radar to back up there eye witness account. most officers can judge speed within 5 miles an hour and some are dead on all the time. (you spend hours doing it, it comes naturaly). he probably decided to give you the ticket because 80,000lbs speeding is more dangerous than 3,000. your best bet is to get a lawyer and plea it out. I wouldn't go into court and mention your radar detector or anything else. also most courts do not allow letters or statements as evidence unless the court or prosecutor can cross examine the witness. bol.

A commercial vehicle also has a larger ticket, more chances to find something else wrong with a larger fine and a greater chance that the ticket will just be paid and not contested in court.

jonp 04-14-2009 11:24 AM

This could be very serious. What is the amount over the posted speed limit in a cmv that you automatically lose your license? Isnt it something like 10mph?

Rev.Vassago 04-14-2009 12:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jonp (Post 446578)
Once you sign the page you are attesting to what is written there and it can convict you if presented as evidence

The page need not be signed to be used against you.

Quote:

395.8 Driver's Record of Duty Status

Question 3: If a driver’s record of duty status is not signed, may enforcement action be taken on the current day’s record if it contains false information?


Guidance: Enforcement action can be taken against the driver even though that record may not be signed. The regulations require the driver to keep the record of duty status current to the time of last change of duty status (whether or not the record has been signed). Also, §395.8(e) states that making false reports shall make the driver and/or the carrier liable to prosecution.

matcat 04-14-2009 12:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jonp (Post 446580)
This could be very serious. What is the amount over the posted speed limit in a cmv that you automatically lose your license? Isnt it something like 10mph?

In most states 15 or over is considered reckless driving. Different speeds have different points in different states.

jonp 04-15-2009 10:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rev.Vassago (Post 446582)
The page need not be signed to be used against you.

I've always wondered about the "guidence". That would seem to me to be a point that you could fight over as the regulation does not say anything about it. I would not contest it but it makes me kinda mad in that it appears that the govenment agency is making it up as it goes along and is ticketing people not on what the duly passed regulation says but on what they want it to say and what they think it should say. Notice that it says "enforcement action". That means they are recommended to give you a ticket not that they would be successful in court in getting it upheld.

Either way: Sign the friggen logbook!

jonp 04-15-2009 10:42 AM

395.8(d)(5) oops. mea culpa


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