How much training is enough?
 

After reading this thread I thought I would ask. How long should a trainee be with a trainer before they can be left alone?

I'm a new driver, only been solo for about 8 months now. After getting my licence I was hired by the company I am now driving for. My training consisted of two weeks with an 'evauluator'. During those two weeks I drove 95% of the time and my evaluator was in the passenger seat at all times while I was in control of the vehicle.

This is standard for this company when taking on a driver with no experience. If after two weeks they aren't confident in your abilities you will likely be let go. They may go one more week if they think your driving is fine but you're having troubles picking up the qualcomm, paper work or the like but that's it.

Personally I think this is a great way of doing it. A couple of weeks is more than enough time to judge if a person will able to handle a truck and make the proper decision when unsure of a situation. They cut a lot of people loose after the first week and only stick with ones they are confident in. The company has a very good safety record.

In my short time out here I have had no incidents or tickets. I have made a couple of wrong turns and could have benefitted from more time with a mentor/trainer/evaulator or whatever you call them but I was more than ready to get rid of the evaluator after two weeks.

I figure the only way to truly learn a lot of things is by doing but I know many would disagree. I have read many times on this site and others that training needs to be longer and more thorough. My thought is that is just needs to be more selective. If you're not confident in a persons abilities after a couple of weeks on the road then they probably shouldn't be in control of a big truck. You can't teach common sense, ability to focus, dealing with stress calmly etc.

Thoughts/Opinions?

There is not a universal amount of time on how long someone needs in training. It really depends on the student, the trainer, and the overall situation, though IMHO 2 weeks is not enough OTJ training even running 3000+ miles per week with the student doing 100% of the driving.

For the most part driving the truck down the road is the easy portion of the job. It is the warehouses, truck stops, rest areas, that get tricky and where students need the most training at and it is where the most accidents happen at.

As far as I am concerned 5-6 weeks of real training is the min. I say real training where the student handles everything with the trainer awake and with the student at all times guiding and teaching and the truck is run as a solo operation the entire time.

Just doing a little arithmetic. You've been driving for 8 months, now. This is the 11th month. Don't know where you drive, but how much have you been taught about inclemment weather? Black ice? Wet, hard-packed snow? freezing rain or freezing fog? More than one person has been on this board after finding a sudden patch of ice and having lost control, then rolled the truck and lost his job. There are only two ways you will learn to survive these conditions. From a trainer, or by yourself. And, a substantial percentage of drivers that have learned about them by themselves are no longer driving. How much more training do you need?

I started driving school last November. By the time I finished those 5 weeks we had a good amount of snow here. I took the class at that time partly because I wanted to get some experience with a big truck in winter conditions with someone at my side. It was January when I was out with the 'evaluator' and early February when I got out solo so I guess it's closer to 9 months now.

Living in the great white north (Canada) winter driving is not new to me. That is a great point though as I know there are many drivers who may never experience snow/ice until they are in a big truck.

How much more training do I need? Well, I don't think there is such a thing as too much training. I do believe though, that no matter how much training a person has it won't change certain traits.

That said, I wouldn't be surprised after a number of years behind the wheel if my opinion changed on two weeks. It doesn't seem very long. But again, some things can't be taught and some things you can only learn on your own.

Ok...You have been solo for 7 or 8 months. After the two weeks you had your "evaluator" riding with you, when was the first time, after the evaluator turned you loose, that you swore under your breath and said "Crap...I wish I had been taught more!" ?

From the time that your evaluator turned you loose up to that point...you probably should have still been in training.

Of course...maybe you have never done such a thing. :bow::bow:

Noone would ever get out of training if that was the case. I don't care how much trainig a person has, they are going to learn things in their first week on their own they could have been taught. Hopefully they will continue to learn things continuously after that.

The longer you're out with a trainer the more situations you will encounter but you'll never encounter them all. I would be willing to bet that many bad mistakes happen very soon after a driver is left alone regardless of how much time they have with a trainer. Two weeks may not be long enough but I guess my point is that the emphasis seems to be on the wrong things. If a person is panicky, doesn't pay attention, is scared to ask questions, is too proud to G.O.A.L., likes to be able to read the bumper sticker on the car in front of them, forgets there's a long trailer back there when turning, has temper tantrums when other drivers do something they think is stupid etc. then no amount of training will be enough.

If the companies focused more on training the trainer on what to look for and cut people loose early who will never get it they would save a fortune in insurance claims and in training costs which would allow them to pay the driver more which would in turn attract more capable people to drive for them and would cut down on turn over which would reduce more training costs even more. I'm sure others could word that much better than I did but I think you get the idea of what I'm trying to say.

When I first started after completing a reputable driving school my company put me in a truck with a trainer for 6 weeks. The first two weeks the trainee was not allowed to drive after dark and my trainer did not run as a training truck. After I was done i still had a few questions now and then but I got 6 good weeks of running every terrain and weather condition. depends on the person. I had driven trucks in the miltary some people have never been in a truck. The training programs we have in this industry do need some change but we all have to work together to get it done

Tiny...How long after going "Solo" was it before you made your first mistake, which could have been bad...but wasn't?

Did you wish at that point that your training period had been longer?

I said on that other thread, that I have 30 years driving. In those years...I could not tell you the numbers of times I "wished" I had had more training..or better training..but there were many of those times.

When I have doubts....I have always stopped. That started on day one.

Even now..If I am not sure of something, I stop the truck. Whether it is turning a corner on a city street, backing into a parking slot at a truckstop..or inside a chemical plant backing into a loading rack.
I have made more than one "Motorist" mad for getting out and taking that look. There have been times that "taking that look" saved my ass.


Is it the training I received at the start...or is it simply my own self doubt at play?

A couple of years ago, a new driver with Swift, with a number of months under his belt was on his way home to TX in Dec. A little north of Amarillo, he hit freezing fog and lost it. The truck rolled over and he was terminated. Never mind the fact that there must have been hundreds of other trucks that went off the road that day (and evening), he still lost his job. I was on I-40 that day, and I counted some 30 trucks off the road, jackknifed, and rolled in a 45 mile stretch of the hiway. Drivers were stopping to chain up to run flat roads. I was loaded light and had no trouble at all. No, I was not foolish enough to run 70 mph, but I didn't spin my wheels or slide anywhere.

Golfhobo was there too, that day. He came from the east, and said it was "PUCKERING".

Now, the question to you is...
Would you like to have us give you a share of our knowledge?
Or would you like to risk your job learning it on your own? Maybe even your life?

You see, that's what the trainer is "supposed" to do. Share his knowledge of actual applications so that you can survive situations. If you are prepared to survive the worst, you should have no problem with lessor situations, as long as you have been taught how to recognize them, and respect them for what they are.

In your area, a snow covered road with a temp of 10 degrees F has far more traction than the same snow in KY with a temp of 29 degrees F.

At one time, there was a guy on this board called, "ROCKYMOUNTAINPRODRIVER". Wish he was still around. He had a great deal of very good information. He was also a driver trainer in Canada.

1 day with a few drops and picks in a 53 in brooklyn should get your skills dialed in

I didn't intend this to be about me but I guess about what is important in training.

Orangetxguy

It wasn't long before I made my first mistake, that's for sure. I haven't made any yet which could have been bad in the sense that someone would have been hurt or something would have been damaged but wasn't due to luck. There definitely were/are times I wished my training had been longer and that I had known to ask certain questions. I did a lot of reading on here and other sites as well as asking many questions of experienced drivers before getting out there but there are too many possible situations to cover it all. I am a cautious person but I know I will make mistakes, the same as anyone else. I remind myself everyday to not turn a small mistake into a big one. I am not full of myself in anyway and hope I don't come across that way. I'm always looking for ways to be better and am a believer that there is no one I can't learn something from. As for your training vs. self doubt it sounds more like caution and common sense to me.

YankeeTURBO

I would like very much for you to share your knowledge. I've learned a lot from this site and thank everyone who imparts their wisdom. You mentioned snow and it's falling outside as I speak. I've been been going over some threads on another site about winter driving to refresh my memory so to speak. Like you mentioned it's always worse when the temps are just below freezing which is how winter always starts.

Enough about me though

I think there is no exact time that is a "good" amount of training. I believe every driver learns at a different pace. I've seen people who get done with 3-4 weeks of training who have NO clue what they are doing, and I've seen people with as little as one or two weeks that handle it just fine.

Training is very important, but this constant cry for regulation and standardization is, IMHO, counterproductive. I see far more accidents and incidents caused NOT by lack of training, but overconfidence and carelessness. NO amount of training can cure these things.

Unfortuantely, everyone is NOT cut out for this job, and whether that "driver" has two weeks of training, or two YEARS of training is irrelivent. I've seen people get fired for having many incidents within a small period, and there are people like Tim who have gone nearly a year with NO incidents at all. That's the difference between a CAREFUL driver and a careless driver...NOT necessarily a well-trained and poorly trained driver.

I support action by carriers and insurance companies to continue to "weed out" drivers who can't hack it due to inattention or carelessness, instead of insisting on a very lengthy, often unneccessary training program.

Do they have a Brooklyn in Canada???

The worse the weather gets, the more you want to drive like you have NO BRAKES. That's because the worse the weather gets, the less effective your brakes will be. Do not slow down "WHEN" you get to the corner. You had better be slowed down as you approach the corner.

With a wet road in summer, putting up a spray is just fine and dandy. But in winter, when the surface of the road if frozen, putting up a spray doesn't mean a dam thing. Look for "TIRE TREAD MARKS" in the water. If you have them, you're driving on ice that's freezing onto the road, and a layer of water on top that is trying to freeze. You can't stand up on it without sliding, and if you stop the truck on your side of the road, it will slide off. Not a hard and fast rule, because you can have wet ice without the tread marks. It depends on just how much water is on top of the ice. Take it easy, and when you're only going about 10 mph, try your trailer brake just slightly. If you feel the braking, you have traction. If you feel no braking, you're on ice. Do not try it at any higher speeds, because the trailer could slide off to the side far enough that you would lose control. Then, it becomes a fine line of keeping your momentum up while going up a hill so that you don't spin out, and not allowing it to get away from you while going downhill.

Do not "OVER-DRIVE" your own ability. And, no one else is qualified to tell you what is a safe speed for you to go.

Asking questions is always a great way to learn. You can't ever get an answer, if you don't ask the question.

YankeeTurbo / WindWalker is right....."ROCKYMOUNTAINPRODRIVER" was a good one for you to get current winter driving tips from. I live in Texas now...and have subscribed to the idea that if the truck needs snowshoes to operate...the truck can stay home and sleep. :bow::bow::bow::bow:

However.....Ladynorthstar and Wildkat are both "Northerners" and can give you some great winter tips. You will find both of them in the ladies forum......being hound-dogged by YT / WW. :lol2::lol2: :rofl::rofl:

Well, I have not been told that they have been offended by my presence...:lol::lol::cool:

Are they one in the same? Was reading over some winter driving threads and Windwalker is a wealth of excellent information. The two ladies from the north and Colt also have great info.

TomB985 seems to be thinking along the same lines as me.

Something else I was reminded of reading some threads is that a lot of people seem run into problems after 6 months to a year as they get too comfortable behind the wheel, one of my biggest fears and part of the reason I come back here fairly often to read up. Do many companies have any type of ongoing refreshers? It never hurts to make sure drivers are reminded of what can go wrong out there.

Yes, we are one and the same...:cool:

"WindWalker" said that.:smokin:

And, THANK YOU, tinytim. I figured that if just one driver stays out of trouble because of it, it was well worth posting. To find out that it's still being read two years after it was posted means a lot. Take it to heart. It's the same information that's kept me out of trouble for years.

Best of luck to you.

http://www.classadrivers.com/forum/n...need-some.html
http://www.classadrivers.com/forum/n...r-driving.html

Those are a couple of great threads about winter driving. Good reads/reminders for anyone I would think. I didn't find the one Windwalker started, probably searching with the wrong term.

And thanks for that info YT/Ww, that kind of info makes this site a great resource.

Going off topic anyway so a little comment. We have a couple of very experienced drivers who love to talk at length. One has been driving for 48 years. Some of the guys avoid them like the plague because once they start talking you can't stop them. That and the fact some of 'em are still young enough to know it all ;) I tell you though, it's amazing how much advice they give without realizing it.

4-8 WKS...if you don't got it by then it's not for you.

The thing about truck driving is that it is always changing. Every day, every mile for that matter, can and usually does present its own challenges and problems that must be dealt with. For this reason there is no way to teach a new driver everything, because even drivers who have been at it for 20+ years are still learning new things all the time.

Training is not really about teaching everything or even trying to. It is about creating and firming up a set of basic skills through an exposure to a variety of situations which will provide a person with enough knowledge and experience that they can work through similar events during the course of their day.

Thinking back over the course of my experiences as a truck driver I can not recall any 2 week period that provided enough variation to provide a stable, solid, base of knowledge and experience for a new driver. If I expand it out to 4 weeks there were some that might qualify, but it is not until you get into the 6-8 week range that I can readily say there were several that would.

i will say this.. when i was first let go out of training i went to a food warehouse that was tight ass phuck!! i kept trying to do and set up for a 45 degree back because that's all i was taught.. it turns out i finally figured out i don't have enough room to either set up or to do the whole back.. the whole time all i'm thinking is "Damn all i know is how to do the 45 degree back" while i'm driving back to my base after to spending 45 mins trying to put a trailer in a spot, i thought about something, i should of did a 90 degree back but i was never taught or put in a situation to do a 90 degree back.. Now does that mean if i stayed out longer then two weeks would of i encounter that situation or something similar?? who knows?? plus i had drove before so the two weeks for me was a little bit of a strech.. i did learn a few tips on my shifting and backing (except for that 90) but really i think four weeks is the max.. with the trainee doing all the driving, 6-8 weeks is too damn long!!! pay sucks!!

by all means i'm still learning, i drive at night so when i want to try something i practice it out on the middle of the road (i travel 2 lane roads sometimes also 4 lane highways, i don't do this on interstates or busy highways) i.e. shifting, making a right turn because i still feel i swing out to wide, also on left turns.. if you trained in the summer and you come up on a winter situation i.e. snow, ice, i got two words for you................... SLOW DOWN!!!

cause that's damn well what i'm going to do

I have been asking that question to my self a lot about whats a good amount of training at my first company.

Most of my school training was highways and state routes, since i was in the daytime class we always did road driving between 9am and noon and 1pm and 330pm. Never really got to experience much of rushhour. (of course the day i did my dmv test, we did the road test during morning rush hour) Did log quite a few miles of driving though and got to visit some of the wonderful truck stops here in Maryland and to do some parking in real life in a truck stop( iguess i was one of the better drivers in class i always got to park it when we hit a truck stop).

I think schools should find a way to incorporate some rush hour driving into their ciriculum.

No matter what i dont think theres an accurate time frame you can put on a "training period" I would really like to know what prime's turnover is with the extensive training program they have. (80000 miles before your considered a full fledged driver, 60000 with a trainer most of the miles run as a team)

My friend always tells me "If its time to chain up its time to park the rig asapastdo(as soon as possible and safe to do so)"

I am not sure you can put a definite time frame on getting enough training. I think people should get enough training to be proficient. If that takes 2 weeks or a year, then so be it. People learn at different speeds. Having a set time frame may not do justice to some drivers while penalizing others who learn more quickly. It would probably be best to establish a basic curriculum for a trainee to learn. Rather than putting a certain time frame I would prefer seeing them check off each aspect of the curriculum. Once they complete the curriculum they are considered proficient, providing the trainer feels confident in their abilities. One weakness I see with many of the carrier training programs is the lack of experience of the trainers themselves. I have heard stories of trainee's being assigned to trainers who have only been driving for as little as 3-6 months. Someone with so little experience has little to share or teach. He is still learning the basics himself. I would have much more confidence in a trainer who has had at least 5 years experience. He is in a much better position to explain how to deal with various road conditions and how to do this job.

Is that nasty talk really necessary?

You may be out on your own for 3 weeks or 3 years or 20 years but you are never finished training

The day that you think that you know it all is the time to hang up the keys and get off the road because something is going to jump up and bite your ass

Gunfighter

The only way you learn in this business is by doing. You can't learn how to drive a truck or deal with the day to day issues you will confront in a classroom. You need to jump in and experience it. All you will learn in the beginning is the basics involved in driving a truck. Your real training begins once you are under a load and on the road. You can't prepare for every situation you will confront out here. All you can do is to learn to be alert and expect the unexpected.

How much training is enough?

After you start driving on your own, if you ever come up with a question you "SHOULD HAVE ASKED" during training, by coming up with the answer on your own, you did not get enough training. It's not a matter of how much is enough, but how much is available, and how much is practical.

Whether you back down in a 3 point stance or your hide is peeled from the burnt frame of the seat, your final exit is the conclusion of your training.

I always told them that would be their FINAL EXAM. And, it could be some 40 years later.