I guess there might be something wrong when even youtube is loaded with swift follies...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TXTZoITrypY

I do feel bad for his Family and friends.

However...I also feel that he should be dropping off a mountain pass today, while receiving the proper instruction on how to do so without burning off the brakes.

Thats not going to happen.

In about 6 or 7 years, YOU will see a story just like this one, and will hopefully have the passion to look past the death, and "see" what went wrong and why.

Do I feel bad for the Trainer? No...I'm sorry but no.

As far as I know..to date...Nobody I have ever trained to completion and solo drive release, has injured or killed anyone or themselves. Yeah...most of them I lost track of...but they were good drivers the last I knew of most of them.

There are a couple whom I failed during training, and that the company let go, whom went on to injure and kill at different companies. One of those men went to prison. There was one driver whom I refused to continue training,:hellno::hellno::hellno:, whom the company placed with another trainer...who promptly put that trainer and 2 others in the hospitol. The company paid a huge price for that. Hundreds of thousands of $$$$. That is what happens when you run over the backs of cars. They could not fire that driver and not pay a huge settlement.....they fired the driver...they paid the settlement.
(Bruce never did give me my share of his settlement! :tears::tears::tears:)

In plenty of cases...to avoid paying out huge settlements, bad drivers are promoted to "Safety" positions, by trucking companies, until the proper amount of time has elapsed. That is just a fact of life and this industry.


And yes...I have a problem with the "Team" training concept...as do a boat load of others.

I didn't read all of the comments posted on this thread, but I can guess that it probably degenerated into a pissing contest at the least.

Bottom line: The type of team training program that Swift and other companies use needs to be "outlawed". There is absolutely no valid reason to have an inexperienced driver at the wheel without an experienced trainer in the jump seat. None whatsoever!

And "trainers" should have a minimum of FIVE years OTR experience, not a day less.

Yup, what a great place to hide em! LOL

That system works both ways though. Here is what happens when "safety" moves over to the driving side of things..................

How can anyone forget this purported former Knight safety director? Dollarshort is undoubtedly one of the true titans of CAD bullshit artists.

New to the board? Search under poster "dollarshort." Here are some refreshers............

This fella has no shame.............

q
 

This is not the first time that "TEAM TRAINING" has come under fire here on CAD. A year ago... Two years ago... I have always been a very staunch oponent of team training with the trainer in the bunk. The trainee doing his/her own training has absolutely NOTHING to do with safety or training. It has everything to do with the company's and the trainer's bottom line. $$$$$.$$ At the cost of the trainee. In this case, I have little doubt, it cost the trainee his life.

Will putting an end to team-training put an end to accidents that may or may not cause the death of a driver? No. I don't think so.

Will putting an end to team-training reduce accidents of this type? Absolutely!!! I have no doubt what so ever.

I see team-training as an INDUSTRY BLACK-EYE!!!

So, if you want to bestow a bunch of "shiny smiley moons" on me... Go ahead. But, reduce this, and you maintain a better collective image of the truck drivers, reduce property damage, and don't have to feel sympathy for as many of the driver's loved ones.

My own opinion...
Companies that do training should be stopped for periodic checks. If the trainer is in the bunk, the company should be given a $100,000 fine. Team-training would then vanish, and safety would be served much better.

Not really. It did have a few moments tho. I do have another idea to throw at all of you tho.

What if the company ( any company ) says that x number of days or x number of hours behind the wheel WITH THE TRAINER IN THE RIGHT SEAT is enough. ( As long as said trainer feels the trainee is doing good ). Is then going to a team status not the next logical step. The trainee on his own ( so to speak ) but with an experienced guy there just in case????

Think about it for a minute. What another poster said about the guy passing his CDL test ( mine was by the state ) makes you legal to drive from day one. You don't have to have ANY training.

Just some thoughts to ponder.


Ridge

If you go back and read the article again, it was in the few paragraphs about the accident that stated the driver lost control on wet pavement.

In Oklahoma City, right after it started raining on blacktop that was laid down about a day or two earlier, I could spin my drives with very little effort, and a trailer that was fully loaded was taking dives toward the guard rail anytime the wind decided to blow from the side. Has anyone, especially your trainer, ever told you about the oil in the blacktop during the first ten minutes of rain? Any driver can have that in the back of his/her mind when the pavement is dry, but it sure comes out to the FOREFRONT, for an experienced driver, when it starts raining. If the trainer didn't cover that before, he sure was not going to cover it while sleeping in the bunk.

As I've said... I've had trainees WITH THEIR CDL's that could not even find reverse on the shifter, much less back into a dock. Do you want them on the hiways without any additional training?

They say that high school prepares students to face the world. If that's true, why do they have to go on to college to get a good job?

:bow::bow::bow::bow::bow:
LOL...AND YOU could have gone the rest of the year and not brought that up!!

:hellno::hellno::hellno::hellno::hellno:
I had forgotten those gems.

On that point I could agree. But you can't overlook the possibility that he either ignored the training or simply made a very costly mistake. As I and others have pointed out, the fact that it was a Swift truck or that the trainer was in or out of the seat has little bearing.

A littlle morsel of info I discovered while researching the idling issue . . truck Drivers do not work under the auspices of OSHA. We answer to DOT and NHTSA.

The entire purpose of "Training" was to reduce losses due to accidents, injury, and theft. It's entire purpose was to save money and mitigate lawsuits.

At some point Federal and State regulations started coming onboard with training as a requirement.

Yes CD...maybe Mr. Fay did chose to ignore his training. He would not be the first...he would not be the last.

However...had the trainer been in the seat instead of the sleeper..the chances would have been 100% better that the accident...AND this entire thread... would have never happened.

At what point did Mr. Fay's trainer decide that he was capable? To me...the trainer made a mistake that turned deadly. :(:(

http://www.transportamerica.com/

Trainer is to be in the jump seat 100% of the time when that truck is moving.

Not only no but HELL NO!!! I think you missed my point: When is enough training enough and would not the next logical step up for the trainee to still have the trainer on the truck in a "team" operation???

While it is in the company's best interest to have properly trained drivers I know of no state or Federal regulations that require additional training after someone gets their CDL. If there are regulations what are the requirements?

I agree 100% with you on the fact that training should be done from the right seat. I have to ask the question again: Should the company say OK training is over give him a truck or let the trainer stay on the truck as a team operation to see how the trainee does without the trainer in the right seat???

Stan . .

I agree with your earlier post and your brother's comment about hydroplaning. Unless the newb fell asleep, it mirrors my best unfounded speculation. At the weight he was running, speed alone would be an unlikely culprit unless it was way too much speed. I'm thinking too much brake for the wet curve and/or grade, regardless of speed. 1 nanosecond of over applied brake and the trainers absence or presence becomes moot.

I know that classroom training would have included the advice that follows. Whether or not the trainer adequately reinforced it is another matter.

For the benefit of any newbs who may be trying to learn something from this thread, I would instruct as follows:

Smith System training would have had you running 15 mph under the posted speed due to:

1. Night time and reduced visibility. (Even though this area is very well lit.)

2. Rain or water on the roadway

3. Curve or grade which would cause you to lose sight of the roadway. (Curve and grade in this instance.)

At the moment you see the yellow sign and before you lose sight of the pavement, you need to slow down. It doesn't matter that you have traffic blowing by and blowing horns on both sides. Maybe they know the road and maybe not. Your goal is to maintain your lane, preserve your truck, your load and your life.

:bow::bow::bow:
OK OK !! You made me do it man...You made me go and look at the CFR's!! :pissedoff::pissedoff::pissedoff::pissedoff:

Here is the link to the specific training Code of Federal Regulations (380.501).

http://frwebgate4.access.gpo.gov/cgi...ction=retrieve

:hellno::hellno::hellno::hellno:
They don't specify a definative length of training! :pissedoff::pissedoff::pissedoff::pissedoff:

That's LCV, L as in Long (double, triple, etc). There are no CMV (CDL) training requirments, currently.

Big D has retreated to his corner to lick his wounds (nuts). In the spirit of good sportsmanship, I figured I'd throw him a bone . .

http://www.marketwatch.com/news/stor...1%7D&dist=hppr

Have fun, Big d, wherever you are . .

Hmmmmmm....Sub Part B deals with LCV's.

Section 380.501 through section 380.513 deals with "Entry-level" drivers.

But...here is the TEXT in it's entirety! I really didn't want to do that!

Code of Federal Regulations]
[Title 49, Volume 5]
[Revised as of October 1, 2007]
From the U.S. Government Printing Office via GPO Access
[CITE: 49CFR380]

[Page 158-162]

TITLE 49--TRANSPORTATION

DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION

PART 380_SPECIAL TRAINING REQUIREMENTS--Table of Contents

Subpart E_Entry-Level Driver Training Requirements

Source: 69 FR 29404, May 21, 2004, unless otherwise noted.


Sec.380.501 Applicability.

All entry-level drivers who drive in interstate commerce and are
subject to the CDL requirements of part 383 of this chapter must comply
with the rules of this subpart, except drivers who are subject to the
jurisdiction of the Federal Transit Administration or who are otherwise
exempt under Sec.390.3(f) of this subchapter.


Sec.380.502 Definitions.

(a) The definitions in part 383 of this chapter apply to this part,
except where otherwise specifically noted.
(b) As used in this subpart:
Entry-level driver is a driver with less than one year of experience
operating a CMV with a CDL in interstate commerce.
Entry-level driver training is training the CDL driver receives in
driver qualification requirements, hours of service of drivers, driver
wellness, and whistle blower protection as appropriate to the entry-
level driver's current position in addition to passing the CDL test.

[[Page 159]]


Sec.380.503 Entry-level driver training requirements.

Entry-level driver training must include instruction addressing the
following four areas:
(a) Driver qualification requirements. The Federal rules on medical
certification, medical examination procedures, general qualifications,
responsibilities, and disqualifications based on various offenses,
orders, and loss of driving privileges (part 391, subparts B and E of
this subchapter).
(b) Hours of service of drivers. The limitations on driving hours,
the requirement to be off-duty for certain periods of time, record of
duty status preparation, and exceptions (part 395 of this subchapter).
Fatigue countermeasures as a means to avoid crashes.
(c) Driver wellness. Basic health maintenance including diet and
exercise. The importance of avoiding excessive use of alcohol.
(d) Whistleblower protection. The right of an employee to question
the safety practices of an employer without the employee's risk of
losing a job or being subject to reprisals simply for stating a safety
concern (29 CFR part 1978).


Sec.380.505 Proof of training.

An employer who uses an entry-level driver must ensure the driver
has received a training certificate containing all the information
contained in Sec.380.513 from the training provider.


Sec.380.507 Driver responsibilities.

Each entry-level driver must receive training required by Sec.
380.503.


Sec.380.509 Employer responsibilities.

(a) Each employer must ensure each entry-level driver who first
began operating a CMV requiring a CDL in interstate commerce after July
20, 2003, receives training required by Sec.380.503.
(b) Each employer must place a copy of the driver's training
certificate in the driver's personnel or qualification file.
(c) All records required by this subpart shall be maintained as
required by Sec.390.31 of this subchapter and shall be made available
for inspection at the employer's principal place of business within two
business days after a request has been made by an authorized
representative of the Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration.


Sec.380.511 Employer recordkeeping responsibilities.

The employer must keep the records specified in Sec.380.505 for as
long as the employer employs the driver and for one year thereafter.


Sec.380.513 Required information on the training certificate.

The training provider must provide a training certificate or diploma
to the entry-level driver. If an employer is the training provider, the
employer must provide a training certificate or diploma to the entry-
level driver. The certificate or diploma must contain the following
seven items of information:
(a) Date of certificate issuance.
(b) Name of training provider.
(c) Mailing address of training provider.
(d) Name of driver.
(e) A statement that the driver has completed training in driver
qualification requirements, hours of service of drivers, driver
wellness, and whistle blower protection requirements substantially in
accordance with the following sentence:

I certify ----------has completed training requirements set forth in
the Federal Motor Carrier Safety Regulations for entry-level driver
training in accordance with 49 CFR 380.503.

(f) The printed name of the person attesting that the driver has
received the required training.
(g) The signature of the person attesting that the driver has
received the required training.

Appendix to Part 380--LCV Driver Training Programs, Required Knowledge
and Skills

The following table lists topics of instruction required for drivers
of longer combination vehicles pursuant to 49 CFR part 380, subpart B.
The training courses for operators of LCV Doubles and LCV Triples must
be distinct and tailored to address their unique operating and handling
characteristics. Each course must include the minimum topics of
instruction, including behind-the-wheel training designed to provide an
opportunity to develop the skills outlined under the Proficiency
Development unit of the training

[[Page 160]]

program. Only a skills instructor may administer behind-the-wheel
training involving the operation of an LCV or one of its components. A
classroom instructor may administer only instruction that does not
involve the operation of an LCV or one of its components.

Table to the Appendix--Course Topics for LCV Drivers
------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Section 1: Orientation
------------------------------------------------------------------------
1.1............................. LCVs in Trucking
1.2............................. Regulatory Factors
1.3............................. Driver Qualifications
1.4............................. Vehicle Configuration Factors
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Section 2: Basic Operation
------------------------------------------------------------------------
2.1............................. Coupling and Uncoupling
2.2............................. Basic Control and Handling
2.3............................. Basic Maneuvers
2.4............................. Turning, Steering and Tracking
2.5............................. Proficiency Development
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Section 3: Safe Operating Practices
------------------------------------------------------------------------
3.1............................. Interacting with Traffic
3.2............................. Speed and Space Management
3.3............................. Night Operations
3.4............................. Extreme Driving Conditions
3.5............................. Security Issues
3.6............................. Proficiency Development
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Section 4: Advanced Operations
------------------------------------------------------------------------
4.1............................. Hazard Perception
4.2............................. Hazardous Situations
------------------------------------------------------------------------
4.3............................. Maintenance and Troubleshooting
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Section 5: Non-Driving Activities
------------------------------------------------------------------------
5.1............................. Routes and Trip Planning
5.2............................. Cargo and Weight Considerations
------------------------------------------------------------------------

Section 1--Orientation

The units in this section must provide an orientation to the
training curriculum and must cover the role LCVs play within the motor
carrier industry, the factors that affect their operations, and the role
that drivers play in the safe operation of LCVs.
Unit 1.1--LCVs in Trucking. This unit must provide an introduction
to the emergence of LCVs in trucking and must serve as an orientation to
the course content. Emphasis must be placed upon the role the driver
plays in transportation.
Unit 1.2--Regulatory factors. This unit must provide instruction
addressing the Federal, State, and local governmental bodies that
propose, enact, and implement the laws, rules, and regulations that
affect the trucking industry. Emphasis must be placed on those
regulatory factors that affect LCVs, including 23 CFR 658.23 and
Appendix C to part 658.
Unit 1.3--Driver qualifications. This unit must provide classroom
instruction addressing the Federal and State laws, rules, and
regulations that define LCV driver qualifications. It also must include
a discussion on medical examinations, drug and alcohol tests,
certification, and basic health and wellness issues. Emphasis must be
placed upon topics essential to physical and mental health maintenance,
including (1) diet, (2) exercise, (3) avoidance of alcohol and drug
abuse, and caution in the use of prescription and nonprescription drugs,
(4) the adverse effects of driver fatigue, and (5) effective fatigue
countermeasures. Driver-trainees who have successfully completed the
Entry-level training segments at Sec.380.503(a) and (c) are considered
to have satisfied the requirements of Unit 1.3.
Unit 1.4--Vehicle configuration factors. This unit must provide
classroom instruction addressing the key vehicle components used in the
configuration of longer combination vehicles. It also must familiarize
the driver-trainee with various vehicle combinations, as well as provide
instruction about unique characteristics and factors associated with LCV
configurations.

Section 2--Basic Operation

The units in this section must cover the interaction between the
driver and the vehicle. They must teach driver-trainees how to couple
and uncouple LCVs, ensure the vehicles are in proper operating
condition, and control the motion of LCVs under various road and traffic
conditions.
During the driving exercises at off-highway locations required by
this section, the driver-trainee must first familiarize himself/herself
with basic operating characteristics of an LCV. Utilizing an LCV,
students must be able to perform the skills learned in each unit to a
level of proficiency required to permit safe transition to on-street
driving.
Unit 2.1--Coupling and uncoupling. This unit must provide
instruction addressing the procedures for coupling and uncoupling LCVs.
While vehicle coupling and uncoupling procedures are common to all
truck-tractor/semi-trailer operations, some factors are peculiar to
LCVs. Emphasis must be placed upon preplanning and safe operating
procedures.
Unit 2.2--Basic control and handling. This unit must provide an
introduction to basic vehicular control and handling as it applies

[[Page 161]]

to LCVs. This must include instruction addressing brake performance,
handling characteristics and factors affecting LCV stability while
braking, turning, and cornering. Emphasis must be placed upon safe
operating procedures.
Unit 2.3--Basic maneuvers. This unit must provide instruction
addressing the basic vehicular maneuvers that will be encountered by LCV
drivers. This must include instruction relative to backing, lane
positioning and path selection, merging situations, and parking LCVs.
Emphasis must be placed upon safe operating procedures as they apply to
brake performance and directional stability while accelerating, braking,
merging, cornering, turning, and parking.
Unit 2.4--Turning, steering, and tracking. This unit must provide
instruction addressing turning situations, steering maneuvers, and the
tracking of LCV trailers. This must include instruction related to
trailer sway and off-tracking. Emphasis must be placed on maintaining
directional stability.
Unit 2.5--Proficiency development: basic operations. The purpose of
this unit is to enable driver-students to gain the proficiency in basic
operation needed to safely undertake on-street instruction in the Safe
Operations Practices section of the curriculum.
The activities of this unit must consist of driving exercises that
provide practice for the development of basic control skills and mastery
of basic maneuvers. Driver-students practice skills and maneuvers
learned in the Basic Control and Handling; Basic Maneuvers; and Turning,
Steering and Tracking units. A series of basic exercises is practiced at
off-highway locations until students develop sufficient proficiency for
transition to on-street driving.
Once the driver-student's skills have been measured and found
adequate, the driver-student must be allowed to move to on-the-street
driving.
Nearly all activity in this unit will take place on the driving
range or on streets or roads that have low-density traffic conditions.

Section 3--Safe Operating Practices

The units in this section must cover the interaction between student
drivers, the vehicle, and the traffic environment. They must teach
driver-students how to apply their basic operating skills in a way that
ensures their safety and that of other road users under various road,
weather, and traffic conditions.
Unit 3.1--Interacting with traffic. This unit must provide
instruction addressing the principles of visual search, communication,
and sharing the road with other traffic. Emphasis must be placed upon
visual search, mirror usage, signaling and/or positioning the vehicle to
communicate, and understanding the special situations encountered by LCV
drivers in various traffic situations.
Unit 3.2--Speed and space management. This unit must provide
instruction addressing the principles of speed and space management.
Emphasis must be placed upon maintaining safe vehicular speed and
appropriate space surrounding the vehicle under various traffic and road
conditions. Particular attention must be placed upon understanding the
special situations encountered by LCVs in various traffic situations.
Unit 3.3--Night operations. This unit must provide instruction
addressing the principles of Night Operations. Emphasis must be placed
upon the factors affecting operation of LCVs at night. Night driving
presents specific factors that require special attention on the part of
the driver. Changes in vehicle safety inspection, vision,
communications, speed management, and space management are needed to
deal with the special problems night driving presents.
Unit 3.4--Extreme driving conditions. This unit must provide
instruction addressing the driving of LCVs under extreme driving
conditions. Emphasis must be placed upon the factors affecting the
operation of LCVs in cold, hot, and inclement weather and in the
mountains and desert. Changes in basic driving habits are needed to deal
with the specific problems presented by these extreme driving
conditions.
Unit 3.5--Security issues. This unit must include a discussion of
security requirements imposed by the Department of Homeland Security,
Transportation Security Administration; the U.S. Department of
Transportation, Research and Special Programs Administration; and any
other State or Federal agency with responsibility for highway or motor
carrier security.
Unit 3.6--Proficiency development. This unit must provide driver-
students an opportunity to refine, within the on-street traffic
environment, their vehicle handling skills learned in the first three
sections. Driver-student performance progress must be closely monitored
to determine when the level of proficiency required for carrying out the
basic traffic maneuvers of stopping, turning, merging, straight driving,
curves, lane changing, passing, driving on hills, driving through
traffic restrictions, and parking has been attained. The driver-student
must also be assessed for regulatory compliance with all traffic laws.
Nearly all activity in this unit will take place on public roadways
in a full range of traffic environments applicable to this vehicle
configuration. This must include urban and rural uncontrolled roadways,
expressways or freeways, under light, moderate, and heavy traffic
conditions. There must be a brief classroom session to familiarize
driver-

[[Page 162]]

students with the type of on-street maneuvers they will perform and how
their performance will be rated.
The instructor must assess the level of skill development of the
driver-student and must increase in difficulty, based upon the level of
skill attained, the types of maneuvers, roadways and traffic conditions
to which the driver-student is exposed.

Section 4--Advanced Operations

The units in this section must introduce higher level skills that
can be acquired only after the more fundamental skills and knowledge
taught in sections two and three have been mastered. They must teach the
perceptual skills necessary to recognize potential hazards, and must
demonstrate the procedures needed to handle an LCV when faced with a
hazard.
The Maintenance and Trouble-shooting Unit must provide instruction
that addresses how to keep the vehicle in safe and efficient operating
condition. The purpose of this unit is to teach the correct way to
perform simple maintenance tasks, and how to troubleshoot and report
those vehicle discrepancies or deficiencies that must be repaired by a
qualified mechanic.
Unit 4.1--Hazard perception. This unit must provide instruction
addressing the principles of recognizing hazards in sufficient time to
reduce the severity of the hazard and neutralize a possible emergency
situation. While hazards are present in all motor vehicle traffic
operations, some are peculiar to LCV operations. Emphasis must be placed
upon hazard recognition, visual search, and response to possible
emergency-producing situations encountered by LCV drivers in various
traffic situations.
Unit 4.2--Hazardous situations. This unit must address dealing with
specific procedures appropriate for LCV emergencies. These must include
evasive steering, emergency braking, off-road recovery, brake failures,
tire blowouts, rearward amplification, hydroplaning, skidding,
jackknifing and the rollover phenomenon. The discussion must include a
review of unsafe acts and the role they play in producing hazardous
situations.
Unit 4.3--Maintenance and trouble-shooting. This unit must introduce
driver-students to the basic servicing and checking procedures for the
various vehicle components and provide knowledge of conducting
preventive maintenance functions, making simple emergency repairs, and
diagnosing and reporting vehicle malfunctions.

Section 5--Non-Driving Activities

The units in this section must cover activities that are not
directly related to the vehicle itself but must be performed by an LCV
driver. The units in this section must ensure these activities are
performed in a manner that ensures the safety of the driver, vehicle,
cargo, and other road users.
Unit 5.1--Routes and trip planning. This unit must address the
importance of and requirements for planning routes and trips. This must
include classroom discussion of Federal and State requirements for a
number of topics including permits, vehicle size and weight limitations,
designated highways, local access, the reasonable access rule, staging
areas, and access zones.
Unit 5.2--Cargo and weight considerations. This unit must address
the importance of proper cargo documentation, loading, securing and
unloading cargo, weight distribution, load sequencing and trailer
placement. Emphasis must be placed on the importance of axle weight
distribution, as well as on trailer placement and its effect on vehicle
handling.

This is exactly what I was getting at. There are no requirements for training after someone gets their CDL. Look at Steve Booth ( god I hate to even type that name ). He got his CDL bought a truck and trailer and away he went. Maybe this would be a good place to raise the bar a little. I hate the thought of more government regulation because they usually screw it up big time but this may be one area that they could do some good by setting a standard for REAL training.

Maybe just the Insurance companies could get it done!

Of course...there would still be the "Self-Insured" to deal with.



Ridge...How is it that you only has one pucky little rep square like us peons? You needs to fix that man...seriously! :lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:


Give me 4 yellow ones!!! :bow::bow::bow:

Now I have to tyep something to make the five word min. :rofl:

Question (asked sincerely)


Do you think more fatal crashes are caused by new drivers or by people driving stupid (fatigued, distracted, etc)?

My own guess would say that FATIGUE, complacency, distraction-perhaps, day-dreaming. I have not done any research in this, but I think that would beat out new drivers.

Makes it sound like there's hope for you...:D:D

Phew!! I was being to think I was doomed! ;)

i am sometimes distracted by females in passing vehicles. especially if i can see lots o' cleavage, a short skirt, a nice pair of legs.

I have to agree with YT on this one because there are far more "over one year" drivers out there than newbies. I do want to caution the new drivers that around 3 to 6 months after going solo to really watch out. That is the time that you start to think that you really have things under control. That is when "Murphy" will jump up and bite you on the ass. When that happens to you then you realize that this is a JOB and you better be paying attention.
I've been there and done that. It was a near miss thank god, but I learned my lesson.:o

i need to remember to wear pants when i drive in my car then. ;)

My opinion...more fatalities occur due to "Driver Error" than anything else.

Driver Error gives wide latitude in interpretation. :lol2::lol2::lol2::lol2:


Seriuosly though.... I hope you understand why I maintain the position on training that I do. :thumbsup:

Nothing at all wrong with a Lady wearing pants! :smokin::smokin::smokin:


:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:


Just make certain your seatbelt is nice and snug!! :lol2::lol2::lol2::lol2:

I do understand your position and respect it a great deal, Stan.:bow:

Also thanks for that right on advice, Ridge Runner. :thumbsup: I hope that sticks in my head! I am normally a patient driver but I haven't been rolling for miles yet. :(

Ridge Runner gave great advise??? :eek2::eek2::eek2: :hellno:

Just what in hades is that ole Hill Billy up to?


You do know that he lives up there in that corner of Georgia that requires you to be part mountain goat and 100% hick to live don't you?? :rofl::rofl:

:bow::bow::bow::bow: Bow to the mighty "Runner of Ridges" !! :bow::bow::bow::bow:


:clap::clap::clap::clap:


Now....why aren't you running miles?? Errrrr...Really you should be driving them...running makes yer legs tired and ...well ...you know...all sweaty. :D

That's what this board is all about. We all learn from each other. My eyes have been opened to a lot of new ideas. Even tho sometimes the debate gets heated, in the end we are all adults ( well most of us ) and see past or own thoughts on the subject.


My eyes were sure opened on this one. :clap:

And, it's possitively amazing what those "REQUIRED" seatbelts do to accent what a lady has "up front"...:whistle::whistle::whistle::nixon::nixon: :clap::clap::clap::clap::thumbsup::thumbsup:

I apologize that I actually do have a life and family activities outside of the internet, and not here to point out the incompetence of .32 cpm Swift "drivers"........

Ridge, great post. In that 3 to 6 month range you start to get really comfortable. You have to remind yourself to not get too complacent. The last couple months have been a little rough with me regarding backing. I got really comfortable and didn't take the necessary precautions before I started some backing maneuvers because I thought I was the man. GOAL is the name of the game. When you get too tired take a 15 minute nap. I just finished my first year and I constantly have to remember to keep alert.

. . incompetence of .39 cpm Swift "drivers" . . can't you get anything right?

Fatigue

...Tiredness causes inability to pay attention...then its downhill from there.

Kablooey !