Rookie on winter driving
 

Okay could use some tips on winter driving.I haul with grain tailer and thats pretty light so how do you keep from tailer locking up or what should a guy do to keep from jacknifing.Would this be a good time for jake breaking?

When the roads are icy, it's always a challenge to keep your trailer "strait" behind you when empty if your braking "too" hard for conditions...

The simple answer is to drive "ahead" of yourself, anticipate traffic slow downs, and traffic lights etc. This is why your paid the "big" money...

Watch for "stale" green lights, watch for "don't walk" lights on your "lane" of travel, sometimes, I know, 7 flashes of "don't walk" = yellow light...

You will learn how to anticipate a "Slow down" OR CRASH :wink:

Your Question about Jake Braking and "JackKnifing" ....

Jackknifing is a very Rare thing in the north... ????

We drive on icy roads and don't "jackknife" Hmm...

I would strongly suggest, those who do "Jackknife" are relying on their Jake rather than slowing up the unit as a "whole" unit.....By using the brakes...

OR THE BRAKES ON THE TRAILER ARE COMPLETELY OUT OF AJUSTMENT !

Hopefully we all have the same thoughts here.

If you know the weather is bad or gonna be bad.

Step 1. I know you have heard it.

SLOW DOWN!!!!!!

If the roads are real bad, park it!!!

But if you must.

Slow down

Stay back.....Dont tailgate, increase your following distance

Expect the expected..... People are gonna do dumb things, watch out for it.

Plan your trip.... If you know the weather is gonna be bad 1,000 miles ahead, well plan on leaving early to compensate your time if possible

Know whats happening!!!! Constantly scan and scan more of whats going on around you. People drive like morons, Whats going on ahead of you 20 seconds, if you can see. Is that light red? Is there some guy turning ahead. Salt trucks. Get the big picture!!

If you should get close to a circumstance, make sure you leave yourself an out also. Are there cars next to you, behind you, in front of you??? If so, what if that car loses control on the side of you. Well, if you know some basic rules you will not be next to that guy when he spins out and you have options now. What if your traveling next to that guy when he spins out. Uh oh you have an accident. You get what I mean.

Turn off the Jake brake also!!!!!!!!!! Dont need it

Well I hope that helps. I have lots more advice but I will let some others chime in here as well.

I would also suggest some one give advice on mountain driving.

One final thought. Mods, you should post a sticky on here about winter driving, May help some of the new guys questions.

Maybe refer to some Smith training or something like that.

Thanks
 

I haven't driven much in winter and any advice is good.The first time I drove on slick roads,I wasn't far from home,coming to stop sign a little faster than I should have,hit the brakes not real hard,looked in the mirrir and saw the trailer trying to come around.So, no one at intersection,no cars coming,shifted down one and went right around the corner.Now I drive like said here,anticipating farther ahead and if road there might not be healthy and drive accordingly.I do start braking way ahesd now and speed is way reduced.I just need any other good advice to keep it on the road.I already know that if its bad, its a no go.Thats hard to do when you own your own rig and got to make the payments.I just figure have to pick up a extra load for few extra days when its good to take up the slack.

It might sound a bit extreme :evil: but I was told in snow treat pretend thier are eggs on your gas and brake pedals and you dont want to break them!!

Also when coming off of the highway to exit ramps(especially cloverleaf exit ramps) BE CAREFULL. The salt trucks make the highways priority and the ramps come second. You might be doing fine going 50mph on the high way then you take an exit ramp and off you go :sad:

Slow down before a corner but don't ever just let off the pedal all the way or the drives could lock up. Accelerate into the corner just keeping enough power to the wheels to maintain speed.

Slow down before the crest of a hill until you get a look down the other side. This is the time most people panic when they see an accident on the other side so it's a good place for a pileup.

If the pavement is dry try to keep one set of wheels in it. If it's icy and the rest of the road covered in snow, keep your wheels in the snow so you have something to bite on.

When your first starting out in snow and your not moving fast enough, don't mash on the pedal, ease off and treat it like an egg shell. Mashing on the pedal and spinning your tires will create an ice rink.

Driving in snow is a talent you have to acquire and be able to feel. It comes with time and experience and not something you can learn over night.

I only drive tractor-trailers part time, so, my winter driving experience with them is somewhat limited. I spend most of my time in an ambulance and winter driving with those is no problem now that I have several years of experience. I'm noticing more and more that, like the ambulance, operating tractor-trailers on snowy roads is getting easier with experience but I'm still TERRIFIED going down bigger hills. There's a few big hills here that I run frequently and when they're slippery I can feel the back-ache before I even start going down the hill. I just find it really difficult to believe that most of the time, that big white box behind you will follow you without any problems!! And they also have brakes!! Haha! Anyway... any tips??

The farther south you go, the more common it seems to be. Using a Jake on bad roads can certainly contribute to a jackknife, but going too heavy on the throttle can do the same thing. Especially, if they have the diffentials locked. If all four sets of drives break loose, the tractor goes into a "tail-spin" because of being on the side of the "CROWN" of the road. Gravity pulls the "loose" wheels to the side and in about one second, it's too late to recover. If you "FEATHER the throttle, just enough to maintain momentum, you stand much less chance of breaking the drives loose. Also choose a higher gear to reduce the torque on the drives. If you do not have the differentials locked, chances are that only one drive will break loose, the rest act like a rudder to keep you in line, and you have time to release and re-apply a little less throttle.

Or, they are relying on the differentials being locked ("4-WHEEL DRIVE SYNDROME") to give them enough traction to drive like they are on a dry road, and apply far too much throttle.

Doing 35 or 40 at the bottom of a hill, and 10 at the top gets you over the hill. Doing 20 at the bottom and coming to a stop half way up gets you into very serious trouble.

P.S.
Differential locks are a very good advantage when you are in a lot, trying to get started. Below 5 mph, they can be your best friends. But, once you get out on the pavement (ice or snow covered) and get over 5 mph, they can become one of your worst enemies. Between 5 and 10 mph, UNLOCK 'EM.

Even at slow speeds, coming to a stop can be dangerous.

I almost had a slow-motion jackknife while doing maybe 5mph. I was on a steep hill that was nothing but packed snow/ice. I managed to get stopped, but it was a long, slow experience.

25 years ago.....ahem :oops:

mr. crabtree, an ex marine who was my teacher in school told me, keep your feet under the seat, meaning go slow, downshift using the motor to slow you down instead of the brakes, and steer your way through it.

Being a truck driver still comes down to KNOWING YOUR EQUIPMENT. Even with ABS brakes, it is possible to lock up the brakes and not have ABS activate. At slow speeds, it is possible to lock up all wheels at once, and the computer says; "VEHICLE IS STOPPED". At 15 mph, it is possible that the computer will not release the brakes and let them roll again. You'll slide until you come to a stop.

You could also do like I did back in NH. Go to a big company parking lot on a Sunday if there is snow and screw around trying everything. I got pretty good at a 180. Turn the wheel a little, let of the pedal and hit the trolley brake!!

Go fast through the lot then take a corner and brake hard to fool around with the ABS.

I often hear trucks using jakes on snow covered roads when going down hills here in Ohio.

I see how using the jake on an empty trailer can cause a jacknife but when going down a hill with a heavily loaded trailer + jake cause a jack knife?

I would say even more so - you're sort of braking the tractor, while the trailer is trying to keep going at the same speed.

Think of it as the trailer pushing the tractor. If you only use the drives to slow you down (using the jake) , you have 15,000 pushing you. If your drives lose traction, all that weight will continue to push it to the side.

With a loaded trailer, you have more weight on the road surface, but it will also be more weight pushing the drives to the side if your drives break loose.

If you read the manual, you will see instructions that say you should not use the jake even on a wet road. You are not to use jakes in any conditions that reduce traction. You need to distribute the braking friction, between the tires and the road, to all wheels to improve your ability to slow down or maintain your speed safely.

Think about it. It's your record on the line. Do you want to risk getting hurt or ending your career by depending on the drives only? Depending only on the drives instead of all wheels is risking exactly that.

Again Windwalker I think it has alot to do with your tractor, your weight & your experience.

I use the "jake test"...start with your jake in it's lowest setting, then work up to highest. I am also very good at reading the road...if it looks real bad my jake is in "off" position unless I need it...then it is tested on different areas, but I never depend on it...I pull Rocky Mountain Doubles ( lead is 48', single axle converter, 30' single axle pup) & drive in some of the worst terrain in North America, and never had any problems. I spent 10 years running in the Canadian Rockies with Super B trains (GVW 140,000 lbs) never had any issues there either.

My truck...company trailers:

http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s...69webimage.jpg


The roads I deal with:

http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s...s/100_0246.jpg


http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s...b%202008/9.jpg


This is the MacKenzie River Ice Crossing...literally driving on a frozen river 2 miles wide.


http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s...b%202008/4.jpg


I think the vast majority of jake & jack knife problems are simply driver error, mostly inexperience. In almost 30 years of being a professional driver I have never (knock on wood :wink: ) jack knifed a unit. Probably jinxed myself now! :? :? :D :D

It's a matter of just how slick it is. Up in your area, snow covered roads are not very slippery. Try it at one or two degrees below freezing and it's different. When you can easily pack a snowball, the roads will be slick. If the snowball falls apart in your hand when you let go of it, it won't pack down the same, and you have better traction.

To be honest, I have used the jake on a snow covered road when the temps are at 15 F or below. At 28 F, I will not use them.

Gotcha Wind...it's all about reading the road. But I beg to differ on the "not icy" when it's 40 below....man I tell ya there's nothing scarier than rolling down the road on packed ice & snow...there's no traction there at all & I probably run 1/2 my miles empty... matter of fact yesterday I spun out on a hill I normally can climb at about 50 mph...packed snow, black ice...it was 42 below, BUT I was empty...lucky for me a sand truck was right behnd me & he layed a thick layer under my truck & in front of me & I was able to get going again, but it was a bloody slow trip up the rest of the hill!

wildkat, those are some fantastic pictures!

Thank you! I love running the North, it is EXACTLY where I belong... I was born in the winter, I got my licence in the winter & I learned to drive a big rig in the winter LOL

Summers up there are awesome too...just hot (well for me anyway)instead of cold...it is a country of extremes!

Hey windwalker
 

Whats the deal with driving across the river,is it a short cut in the wintertime up there?Man I bet thats kinda creepy isn't it?Does the ice get pretty thick?Sounds like river is wide,is it deep also?Wow thats really different.Just curious.

You don't want to use the Jake on slippery roads - period.

Just take it nice and slow. If you have any doubt in your mind pull it over and park. In the morning you will be surprised how many SuperTruckers are in the ditch, medium, or cornfield.

In these winter storms visibility is usually the first thing to go.

I am a firm believer if you can't see the sh!t, you will probably step in the sh!t.

Yeah, my wife and I have talked about taking a month or so off sometime renting a van or RV and taking a drive up through to Alaska in the summer, and then a cruise back down to Vancouver.

How hot's hot in the summer up there?

Re: Hey windwalker
 

There is no bridge, we cross in the summer on an itty bitty ferry:

http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s.../100_0143a.jpg

It carries 2 trucks at a time!


In the Arctic there are very few roads, 7 in total for 250,000,000 square miles of country, & most of it is in the MacKenzie River delta, which in summer is pretty much under water, so in winter they build roads over the lakes & rivers to get frieght to the isolated settlements & mines that are up there. It's the only time of year that frieght can be hauled in there.

The ice must be 28" thick before it is safe to cross with a truck. The Mackenzie River is up to 10 miles wide in the far north (near the Arctic Ocean, but where I cross it is amost 3 miles wide, it is kind of creepy the first time in winter cause the ice crackles & groans, but you get used to it. Whe you have a problem is when it DOESN'T make noise, that's when there's trouble. I understand that the Mackenzie can be seen from space.

The reason it makes noise is because ice actually floats above the water & when you drive on it, it goes down to the water level & flexes so the more weight you have the slower you must drive, on this crossing the speed limit is 15 mph, which is STRICTLY (1 mph over the speed limit is a 500$ fine) enforced, because what happens is you create a wave in front of you which will hit the shore before you get there & break the ice therefore damaging the road.

The worst time, for me at least is crossing in the spring, cause there's alot of water on the ice, sometimes up to 3 ft deep.

THAT gets scary:

http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s.../100_0096a.jpg

http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s.../100_0102a.jpg

http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s.../100_0101a.jpg

I took these last spring, this was there scariest crossing I ever made, there was one truck allowed on the ice at a time, there were water marks 1/2 way up my fuel tanks & my bottom step was completely under water. The road was closed the next day.

I hoped on the reurnt trip it would be better at night (hoping for colder night), but all it did was scared me worse :oops: :oops:

http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s.../100_0121a.jpg

http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s.../100_0116a.jpg

http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s.../100_0118a.jpg

It can get up to the low 90's, but you must remember there is 24 hours of daylight so there is no night time cooling, and bring ALOT of bugspray cause the bugs are big enough to carry you away! :lol: :lol:

Also storm...

Most of the roads up there are either gravel or narrow 2 lane...well pavement if you are generous... :lol: :lol: They are narrow & winding through the most part as they were built by the army in the 40's & since there's not a huge amount of traffic & the construction season is roughly 6 weeks in summer, well I think you get the idea.

My mom went to Alaska last summer & she just loved it, spent 6 weeks up there & said it was one of the best holidays she ever had...just her, her 2 big black labs & her camper!

Awesome pictures Wildkat. Thanks for posting. From my avatar you can see I play around in the snow a little too. I go riding in Michigan's UP and also up into Canada. We ride alot of lakes, rivers, etc like Whitefish Bay, riden to Mackinaw Island, Magpie reservoir near Wawa. I can picture the slush and water and I know the scary feeling. :lol: Difference is if we dont like the looks of it we go another way. You have no choice! But in a big truck, what a rush!

Thanks Snowman, unfortunealtely there is only ONE road...either you take that one or you simply stay home! :lol: :lol: