OTR Drivers deserve better PAY
 

Professional OTR Drivers should be compensate for all the work for they do.
Here a list some Carriers don't pay there employees for:

Loading and unloading
Waiting for a load
Maintenance and break downs (flat tire etc..)
Paper work
Gridlock

Here is a list that we could also improve on

Sickness benefits (W I Weekly indemnity)

Re: OTR Drivers deserve better PAY
 

Yep, and that's only part of it. The list of freebies goes on and on and on in that end of the biz. I never could quite understand why folks love giving away so much of their time/labor for zilch. But to each their own, I guess.

Opps I hit the submit button before I was done my Rant. O well you get the idea.

Driver need to fight back. We need to be aggressive like the companies like are.

We would have them by the balls if all company drivers stopped the driver training program for 6 months or more. Image the nice compensation package they would offer to keep the veteran drivers.

If you work with hhg miles, your crazy.

I get raped on a daily basis, there are times that I don't get to use vasiline.

Re: OTR Drivers deserve better PAY
 

For some, it's not a question of loving it, but having no alternative. I put in for tons of jobs. I figured after 10 years I would be in a great position to cherry pick where I went after I got laid off, but it isn't so. I went through so much shit to find another comparatively good job it's not even funny.

Mostly the phone just didn't ring.

I held out as long as I could, and here I am back to grabbing my ankles. Even on a day when I'm really getting screwed out of time, I still make anywhere between twice and four times as much as I could get doing anything else that's actually available to me as a real choice.

I have a college degree, good grades, a book credit, a list of professional references from all over the globe.

This economy is a steaming dog turd.

Re: OTR Drivers deserve better PAY
 

Hear, hear...

Outsourcing is outta control :!:

I've had 2 finance jobs moved to India in the last 5 years...

At least these companies can't pull freight via India...although maybe dispatchers will eventually be located there. :roll:

I work with HHG miles.



But, then again, I'm in HHG. :wink:

Re: OTR Drivers deserve better PAY
 

I'll drink to that one too. I got outsourced in the trucking industry, sort of. My old company still sells stuff, and trucks are still hauling it, just not their trucks.The job I felt like I was going to get involved interfacing with the outsourced branch of operations in India. My international collaborative experience made me feel like a shoe-in for that one.

Apparently not.

That's always been my thinking too, but these days I can't say I really believe this business is immune from the effects of the economy either.

I watched our old product line go from 90% American to 90% imports to 100% imports, and kept thinking that even while all my friends in the factories were out of a job, at least I still had something to haul.

Now look at me. They still have something to haul, but I'm not hauling it anymore. Meanwhile I got out of the really rocky furniture industry and now I'm on the path to True Stability.

I've got a pretty sweet dedicated run that gets me home every night for a few hours, and off most weekends. It's turning out OK now that I'm getting through the culture shock issues.

My future is secure now, and everything is roses and peach ice cream, and I'm going to live happily ever after.

As long as the American auto industry doesn't go into the toilet.

Sigh.

The writing's already on this wall too, unless this supply chain retools and starts servicing Toyota or something.

I'm trying to make sure I don't wind up in the same bind as last time. There's nothing I can realistically do to improve my odds of getting some other kind of job, and I can't afford to move, so I'm trying to work it out where I can live with a 60% pay cut when this all dries up.

And in the meantime, yes, I'm looking for the new Qualcomm Ultra to be rigged up so a nice little lady in Bangalore can drive five 18-wheelers by remote control for $50 a week.

Re: OTR Drivers deserve better PAY
 

If you guys really want to know why your are not paid for all of your time check out the post above this one. To many "trucking is what you make of it" and "it's a lifestyle" apologists in the industry.

I suppose there are things I don't get paid for. But unless you want to get paid hourly - and I don't - that's the way life is.

I've had salaried jobs. I guess that means I got paid "for everything". I dunno.

I've had straight commission sales jobs. I guess that means I didn't get paid "for everything". Doesn't matter. I made plenty.

And now I make enough to satisfy me. I don't care how they figure it.

It's like I told the boss during the interview. "My personal minimum wage is 50 grand. If I can't make that, Ill just stay at home and not bother everyone".

So go ahead. Insist that you get paid "for everything". Someone will accommodate you - and you'll make about 35 grand a year.

Re: OTR Drivers deserve better PAY
 

If you want to be paid for every single minute you are on the job, then you need to work by the hour. When you go to work for a company for mileage or percentage, then that is what you are paid. The main area where I see that a driver should be paid is for loading/unloading or excessive waiting. If drivers either assist or unload a truck they are not usually paid the same wage as a lumper. I feel that if a carrier is willing to pay a lumper $200 for unloading a truck then the driver should be paid the same. Unfortunately, they are usually only paid about $50 for doing the same work. In reality, lumper fees should not even come into play. It is the responsibility of the receiver or shipper to load or unload their freight, not the driver. It should not take long to do paperwork. It is part of the job and is required by the Federal government.

Most salesmen are not paid for travel time, paperwork, etc., They are paid for performance. They are paid a commission on what they sell. It is the same for OTR drivers. They are either paid a percentage of what the carrier receives or mileage, which is also usually a percentage of what the carrier receives. The more miles he drives, the bigger his paycheck. Most OTR drivers do well financially once they get some experience. No company will pay top wages to a worker until they gain experience. The more proficient and experienced a driver becomes the higher his wages. It is the same with a salesman. The more sales he closes, the bigger his paycheck.

If you want to stay in this business and want to earn more money, you can save your money and buy your own truck, get your authority and start your own trucking company. Once you have your own company, you can run it anyway you wish. If you want to charge for sitting, just put it in the contract you have with the broker or shipper from whom you received the load.

One thing you should keep in mind, however. There is only so much money to go around. Unless a carrier collects money from the shipper or receiver for sitting or unloading, etc., he cannot afford to pay the driver.

haul a chemical tanker and you will get paid for every thing you do. If you can handle the surge.....

I get paid for everything I do and I make alot more then 35k. :D

Have stated this before but HHG vs practical vs actual should not be an issue for drivers. The pay rate that a company pays will make one or the other a better deal.

Bottom line is compare the two to see where you will make the most money at the end of the year and just because a company pays practical miles does not mean that they would be the hands down winner.

Well I found a company that will compensate most of my driver needs.


BTW inmate 1577 when loading and unload or on breakdown, surfing the net or taking nap, i will be doing the same thing, But getting paid here :D

here is there compensation package, keep in mind i am Canadian.Effective Jan 1, 2007


MILEAGE

Mileage rates: Canadian Miles: $0.38/Mile
USA Miles: $0.42/Mile


PICK UP & DELIVERIES
Full Load Customer

.


1st Stop $34.00
Each additional Stop $14.00 each

The following would not qualify to be paid as a full load customer stop,



If the driver is performing P&D work directly for a Terminal, the driver will be compensated on an hourly basis at the following rate.


Hourly Terminal P&D - $15.76 per hour Atlantic Canada
Hourly Terminal P&D - $21.87 per hour Ontario
Hourly Terminal P&D - $17.50 per hour Montreal
Hourly Terminal P&D - $18.03 per hour Québec City



Terminal Wayfreighting

These rates apply whenever making an enroute drop or pick up at a Terminal location and you continue on to your final destination with the same trailer

$21.87 per hour - minimum ½ hour


MECHANICAL BREAKDOWNS
The driver will be entitled to be compensated for a delay incurred that is a direct result of a mechanical breakdown of the equipment. The compensation will be as follows;

Per hour rate payable from time of breakdown - $15.00 per hour
Maximum of 8 hours per 24 hours


OTHER HOURLY COMPENSATION:
Pick up and delivery Delay:
Drivers performing live pick ups and drops will be compensated after 4hrs at a rate of $15.00 per hour. If driver expects pick up or drop cannot be completed within 4 hrs, you must contact central dispatch after 2 hrs so we can try and rectify the issue. If you fail to contact central, you will not be compensated.
Tropicana: For delays at Tropicana only, you will be paid after 2 hrs from scheduled pick up time.

Initial Dispatch Delay:
Any delay (dispatch or company equipment) that prevents you from attaining miles at your scheduled start time will be compensated at $15.00 per hour for every hour until departure.

Excessive Terminal Delay:
Any delay at a terminal that exceeds 12 hours will be paid at a rate of $15.00 per hour for each hour until dispatched.

NOTE:
None of the delay payments are applicable if the cause of delay can be considered "ACT OF GOD".
Example: Extreme weather, power failures.


REQUIRED TRAILER WASH DELAY:
1 hour will be paid to drivers required to stop and wash trailers while on the road.
Dispatch must be advised prior to having trailer washed.
LAYOVER ALLOWANCE
USA Layovers:
Driver will be compensated a flat rate of $150.00 if you do not receive a dispatch within 12 hours from time you are empty and available for reload.


BORDER CROSSINGS:
Drivers will be paid an allowance as follows for clearing loads at the Canada/USA border.

Southbound-$5.00 per shipment Maximum $50.00 per load.
Northbound-$5.00 per shipment Maximum $50.00 per load.

NY CITY BONUS:
Drivers dispatched into one of the five (5) boroughs of New York City will receive an allowance of $150.00.
The five (5) boroughs are Brooklyn, Bronx, Queens, Manhattan, and Staten Island.


SAFETY BONUS:
Each driver is entitled to receive a $0.02/mile quarterly bonus on all paid miles.
To receive this bonus, the driver must comply with the following:

Have no preventable accidents for the quarter.
Comply with the company uniform policy for the quarter.

This topic always points out why drivers do not get paid ANYMORE for what they used to get paid. Every time they still claim to be completely clueless on WHY they do not get paid for what they do. The simple and constant answer is THEY DO NOT DOCUMENT THEIR HOURS! When the drivers start making the companies aware of the hours they WORK, then the companies will be forced to at least consider the hours that the drivers GIVE AWAY to the companies for FREE.

If you are not logging the hours then you cannot complain about receiving pay for hours YOU are proving do not exist. :roll:

All of those different rates Johnnylightning listed can be confusing. Talk about paperwork!! I still think that paying drivers a flat percentage of what his truck makes is the fairest way for a driver to be compensated. The greater his productivity the more money he makes. The problem I have with hourly pay, regardless of what service is being performed, is productivity. Some people will work hard regardless of how they are paid. Others will only do what is barely necessary to get a paycheck. With hourly pay, everyone is paid the same, regardless of level of productivity. Some people are not worth the money they currently receive. Others are not compensated enough due to their above average level of productivity. By paying a percentage drivers would have more control on their income. If a driver was productive and did a good job, he could be given higher paying loads which in turn would increase his income. If a drive did a poor job and had low productivity, then he would be assigned lower paying loads. Both would receive the same percentage, but the higher performing driver would haul the higher paying loads. I hear drivers complain about how much money their employers earn and how little they receive. By paying percentage, the driver is more likely to earn what he is truly worth. It seems more fair.

My company does most of that too. Just I dont make a big deal out of it.
I can unload frieght and get paid quite nicely for it. But I could careless about Family Dollar's (or anyone else's) junk. Its not worth the money to sweat anymore than I have to. Its nice you get paid extra for NYC, I'd rather excercise my option of not having to go at all, same goes with Canada.

Re: OTR Drivers deserve better PAY
 

Why should the guy in the factory get paid when his drill press breaks down or the power goes out? It's no more the company's fault than his, right?

$35,000/year hourly job = $673/week gross
$50,000/year OTR = $1063/week (assuming out for 47 weeks of the year).

On the surface, the OTR gig looks better. And that's the way the recruiters, hobby truckers, lifestyle folks, etc like to paint it. But once we pop the hood and kick the tires, we find out it's nothing more than a pig with lipstick:

$35,000/year hourly job = $16.83/hour at 40 hours per week
$50,000/year OTR = $12.51/hour at 85 hours per week (no overtime after the 8/40th hours)

So for $15,000 more, the OTR driver is working more than DOUBLE the hours of the hourly guy! Plus the 35k guy goes home everynight and weekends to his family and sleeps in his own bed. If he wants to work a part-time job on the side or go to school and take classes, he's free to do so. The 50k OTR guy sleeps in a truck and getting home weekends is hit or miss. Toss in crazy work schedules, poor diet, sedentary lifestyle, and breathing diesel fumes and thus explains the astronomical 120%+ turnover rates and why those companies are constantly hiring.

JohhnyLightning boasted:

Good for you. But, you did say MOST, right?


Really?


And if the dispatcher finds a way for you NOT to continue with the same trailer?


And for the 16 hours that come AFTER the maximum of 8 hours??

Then, the first 4 hours are free, right??

"Sorry driver, I didn't get your call. Can you prove otherwise?"


First 12 hours are your GIFT to the company??

God is a dispatcher!


All loads are automatically dispatched at the elapsed time of 11 hours and 59 minutes!


But it can sometimes take a DAY to clear customs... or so I've been told.


That's why so many DC's are located in Elizabeth, NJ. J-u-s-t a b-i-t outside!


Good luck on that one! They're betting on the odds which are in their favor. :lol:

I'm not trying to burst your bubble Johhny. I hope you do well! And I'm CERTAINLY not joining sides with CFM!!

Just make SURE you keep good records, (paperwork?) and remember that it is the dispatcher's JOB to screw you out of pay, and save the company money!

Re: OTR Drivers deserve better PAY
 

Comparing driving to a salesperson just doesn't fly, GMan. Salespeople have the opportnity to make as much money as they possibly can. Whether it be good sales techniques, or making up for the lack of, with hard work. The door is open to salespeople to produce as much as possible. An OTR driver doesn't have control over his potential earnings when companies play silly games. The door doesn't seem to be open to an OTR driver. Too many variables are out of an OTR drivers hands to max out their potential earnings. Pretty much just shut up and color with alot of the TL companies.

Amen, and again I say Amen!!! :lol: :P

Everyone has control over their potential earnings. Say you have two drivers working for the same company and on the same job. One made 70 grand, the other made 40 grand. I guarantee the one who made 70 grand did something different to make it happen. Happens all the time. In fact just last week, they brought in a few of our top earning drivers last year to corporarte. Our CO brought them up to recruiting and allowed us to ask them questions. One of the questions was "What was your secret to making more than everyone else" He gave us a pretty detailed answer of some of the things he did to do so well, but really it came down to this. He ran smarter than everyone else. Basically it did what it took to make that much. I find that funny that if you ask the top drivers anywhere that question. They will always answer the same way....THEY DID WHAT IT TOOK and on the other side of the coin if you ask the drivers on the bottom end of the payscale what they didnt do to succeed, they will ALWAYS say it wasnt their fault.
Dont fall into that trap where you convince yourself that you dont control your pay. Thats exactly what the people at the bottom want you to think. People like to bring others down to their level. It helps them deal with where they are in life. When you start thinking that way and you fall into that trap, you have lost.

I definitley subscribe to that theory. After spending 23 years in the military it's easy to understand how those with the WIT (Whatever It Takes) attitude usually rise to the top. What's confusing/conflicting with that theory is the number of drivers that complain about their company or the industry as a whole. Reading these forums it seems there are more disgruntled drivers than happy. Is it really possible that all these folks complaining are NOT doing what they need to do to be successful? I find that a little hard to believe.

I think the keyword here would be when you posted "seems". Yes, people on message boards seem to be mostly complaining. Thats just the nature of message boards. If you created a message board where the rule was everyone had to say nice things about everything, no one would ever show up there. However, people on message boards arent a good represntation of all drivers out there. They are a very small % of the industry. Ive said this before and I will say it again. Ive found that for the most part drivers are happy with their jobs no matter what the company. This is all I do all day. (besides sometimes being a smartass on message boards).....I talk to 100s of drivers about their work. I talk to drivers from all companies. And for the most part most are happy. If most drivers were disgruntled and hated their work....Damn, recruiting would be an easy job. Guess which company I talk to that has the most drivers happy with their job? SWIFT. Why do you suppose that is? Its pretty simple when you think about it. They are the largest, so of course they have the most happy drivers. And of course them being the largest, you would see the most complaints about them on message boards.
I will use us (jb) as an example too. Ive been doing this a long time. Ive hired 100s and 100s of drivers. Everytime one of the drivers Ive hired leaves, I get an email and that email tells me why they left or why they were fired. I always find out why. I also always call them to hear their side of the story. Very rarely does their version of what happened match what really happened. Example: Just last week I had a driver I hired about 7 weeks ago leave us. I got the email saying he was canned for unsatisfactory performance review. He was basically late quite a few times and he had a few "Incidents". Now, i called him and asked him what went wrong. He got real angry and said he quit because he "didnt get no miles". He sounded pretty convincing and might have taken his word for his little rant....however, of course, I knew the true story but just let him vent and even apologized to him. The funny thing was is I had his info pulled and saw that not only was he getting good miles, but way over company average. I have no doubt that driver today is going around telling everyone how JB hunt sucks and he "didnt get no miles".
I think one mistake people make when they hear about huge "driver turnover" at large companies is they think the majority of those drivers quit. Some do.....but the majority of that turnover is people fired.
From my experience of the drivers I hired, I would say it breaks down like this. About 60% of the drivers that I have hired who left were fired for one reason or another. About 20% left because they are just job hoppers and "the grass is always greener" I would say another 20% left because they were just not happy. That 20% that were not happy can sure make a lot of noise on the CB and the message boards. And when you factor in human nature where people dont like to admit their mistakes.....Quite a large portion of those 60% who were fired are going to be on message boards joining the 20% who had gripes.

Think about it this way........Where are all the posts of drivers admitting they did something wrong and were fired?

You're something else. You talk about drivers blaming everyone but themselves, but I don't see anywhere in your calculations that drivers left because of issues that put JB Hunt at fault. The closest you came was the 20% that just weren't happy but failed to specify why they weren't happy.

I never worked for JB and have no first hand knowledge of them, but they have a bad reputation. You claim that drivers only come on here to gripe, well it's funny I read nothing but bad things about JB and almost nothing but good things about Crete, KllM, Maverick, TMC, Melton, Heartland Express to name a few.

By the way I don't work for any of the above companies but I do talk with the drivers as well as read about the companies here.

Ive seen complaints about every one of those companies on message boards.
Wouldnt simple math tell you that if a company has 3 times the drivers as another company you would hear 3 times as many complaints?
I was not saying that no big company or small company hasnt done something to a driver that could be considered as wrong. I was just pointing out that the majority of drivers who leave a company didnt quit, they were let go. And I was also pointing out that you never see drivers on message boards telling people that they were fired. I can go through my email and look at all the people I hired that left the company in the last 7 days. There were 7 of them. These are the reasons. 3 Failed a random drug test. ( which is happening alot lately now that we are doing hair drug tests), 2 were let go because performance review, 1 had a family emergency and 1 left because he wanted to be home more and we didnt have a dedicated job in his area open. So out of those 7 drivers who left here, 2 actually quit. Now, lets do the math. I hired 5 drivers in the last 7 days and 7 left. So this week I as a recruiter had a 140% turnover rate. Sounds terrible huh? However when you break it down and look at the reasons, it wasnt bad at all. And I would bet those 5 drivers who were canned are right now blaming the company and even blaming me as a recruiter. That is not exclusive to drivers, nor am I insinuating that. That is just human nature to pass the blame. It happens in any industry at any job.
That was all I was trying to point out.

I have to agree. For I am Guilty as charge of that same thing. But it took me going to the lowest point of my life to see it.

I been out of work for the last 7 years due to my health. But I rather been working, but when I lost my last job, I went to an all time lowest point of my life. It took that to show me not all were the companies fault.

But if you look at every Company that people complain about, you'll see many drivers that's been with them for years. In order to have that you must be doing something right. 50% of the battle is Attitude. Nothing comes out and get's you, you do have to go out and get it. It's all your self.

Re: OTR Drivers deserve better PAY
 

I think it's a real simple fix, don't do it. Go work for someone that will pay you for what you do. Thats what I did so I can't complain.

People whine and complain about not being paid for what they do but they really don't do anything about it. They just go to work and do what they are told to do. No one is holding a gun to your head saying you have to do all this work and not get paid for it, and if you don't you will never work again in this industry.

So seriously, why are you complaining?

Thanks for getting this thread back on subject, ben.... :lol:

The elevators in our office are slow.....I wish I was paid for waiting on them.
Our parking lots are really big and I have to park far away.....I wish I was paid for parking lot to office commute time.
The guy who sits beside me eats ice from our ice machine all day. I hardly use any ice from there......I should be paid a "ice consumption bonus"

Re: OTR Drivers deserve better PAY
 

How is the furniture business rocky? Ashley furniture was a company i was considering. I would like to know if this is a bad idea.

hmm, why do people bitch about this all the time. by the way cold frosty, 85 hours a week, cmon man?? let me see, i was a grocery store manager before i started driving...salaried position. so i drove an hour to work, did i get paid? i took an hour or so lunch every day, did i get paid? i had to go to meeting all the time..drive my own car to them, did i get paid? i had to go in at different hours...my time off, to deal with store problems, personel, etc, did i get paid? these all all in addition to the 55 hours i was scheduled to work...and also most salaried jobs are based on 45 hours a week, not 40. so why when i drive truck should i get paid to sit in traffic, eat, sleep, shit, shower, and shave. Is it because buster brown does? more power to them. why does any of this matter? it doesen't. i think people should be happy and blessed with what they have. or we can get greedy just like the automotive workers, or should i say former automotive workers. they got greedy and now some guy in mexico is doing there job...and i bet he is content with what he has. lets just price ouselves out of the market placew so we can all sit on the porch and bitch about the mexicans up here, stealing?? our work.

Oh man....I forgot about the most important one.
About every three months or so they mix things up around here and they make us switch cubicles. I have a lot of stuff, computers, a huge filing cabenet, books, shelves ect...........I should be paid cubicle relocation pay of .40 cpf (40 cents per foot).
Also I just remembered that Im typing on this message board while at work........I should be paid per keystroke for my messages.

I love it when company drivers brag about how they get paid for everything.

When it comes down to it, an independant or owner/op will always make more $ per all hours worked. Unless they don't know how to run a business.

It's ALL about making the most $ per hour worked, not getting paid for every little thing.

:roll: awww man here we go again. someone is gonna fix all our complaints for us whether they need fixin or not. if ya can't make it when others do, too f*%#@g bad. not my problem. the pay for any job is never enuff. suck it up and do a little more to make it work. i do not want an equal pay. if i bust my butt and you won't i want more. period.

I didn't read the previous posts I just jumped in, but glad to help get it back on track.

Hope your not directing that towards me, I have nothing to brag about. I work for a good company but I'm at the bottom and there are many other people on here making alot more than me, going to be a while till I can get a good run. I'm sure I'll get layed off again this winter and go work for a OTR outfit till I get called back.

Agree a %100!!!!! It's also about being happy with what your doing.

I get paid for every little thing i do a fill a time sheet out get paid by the hour. That is the #1 reason why i will not go OTR. i do every once in a while get on one of my OTR kicks but when i see 35cpm i get over it fast. Every one chooses there job so they cant bitch about it later.

Re: OTR Drivers deserve better PAY
 

I don't think Ashley is a bad idea. I work for Action (Lane Furniture) and we lose a fair number of drivers to Ashley because Ashley doesn't bother with back-hauls the way we do.
I'm not leaving, though. Action and Ashley pay about the same and the Action yard is about two miles from my house.