Back on Subject: Tankers
 

I haul a tanker. Smooth bore. No baffles. In the snow, in the freezing rain! NOT the same as a fuel tanker! They have compartments! And a real tanker driver will know all about the 'surge' or 'wave'!
For every action, there is a reaction. Any sudden turn of the steering wheel, hit the shoulder of the road, take a corner too fast, you will find out how many degrees of lean you can have. Not much. A tanker can be very unforgiving. It needs to be respected.
No you should not leave a loaded tanker on the landing gear. Highly unadvisable.
NO! No, you never drop a tanker with nothing in the back compartment and loaded in the front. If you do you will be able to change the tires on the trailer.(in the air)
The other questions I can't answer because I can only speak from my experiences hauling liquid food grade products.

The load will also 'roll' from side to side. It heads to the front and goes to the back with shifting. And before you all think, well shift smoothly. I can. But that takes too long. When entering a highway, ya got to go. It is worse when there is less than a full load. At it's worse when about 3/4 full. And downright dangerous when empty on snow.

And the weights. Tankers haul heavy. A gallon of water weighs approximately 10 lbs. A tandem trailer may have room for 6,000 gallons. A tri-axle, room for 8,000 gallons. Imagine if the tank is 3/4 full and that 'wave' is heading for the front of the tank when you do a hard brake application.

And a note of interest. If you are parked on glare ice or hard packed snow. Your truck may not be in the same place as you left it. The load moves and will actually move the truck. :shock:

So you ask if a new driver can haul tanker? I say yes, with some previous shifting experience. It would depend on the driver. If you like boating, you'll enjoy hauling smooth bore tankers.

Just my experience.

Annie 8)

Re: Back on Subject: Tankers
 

Good post Annie.

I'm 50 and thinking of retiring from my present job and going on the road for a while. I've been reading a LOT of posts on various boards as well as company web sites. I'm attracted to tankers because of the exacting nature of the job - the precision with which all the various tasks associated with hauling the chemical lifeblood of the country must be completed.

My present job is a very procedure-oriented safety-related position. I truly enjoy the rush of completing jobs that are just a bit more hazardous than the usual run of the mill. It's all about managing risk.

I was thinking of applying to SNBC, as I have no experience driving (well, straight trucks 25 years ago, hardly counts).

I think the on-topic posts in this thread have convinced me that it might be a bit smarter to start with a solid year or two pulling a van around the 48 - there's skills to be honed that should better be done there. It's managing risk.

And that's what you all do, right?

Jim

Vic, there its no reason you can not or should not try the tank division first. If you're a safety conscious individual, then you can do the job. If in your posts it seems like you're a unnecessary risk taker, then perhaps you should try van first.

I had never seen the inside of a truck before I went to SNI's school. The only shifting experience I had was trying to drive my older brother's pickup in a parking lot when I was 16 and doing very badly at it. Hell I really didn't even learn how 'not' to dump the clutch until I was a week out with the OTR trainer.

Everyone said let it out 'slowly'; so I did, and I 'slowly' dumped the clutch every time. No one ever said to me, let off the pedal but hold the damn clutch still till you start moving forward and then slowly release it. I had 'that' epiphany on top of an overpass. If someone ever perhaps said that to me I might have gotten it sooner, hell I don't know I guess it was something I had to feel on my own to understand what they meant.

SNBC has smoothbore tanks and it has compartment tanks. Hell it even has a couple of container tanks but I've not seen anyone drive those yet. If you're a safety conscious person then I believe you can start off in the bulk division, and for a couple of reasons I think it would be better if you started there.

One, better pay and treatment. Not only better treatment by your immediate supervisors the STL's, but also by the other support staff. Hell I had someone from emergency maintenance just the other day tell me 'oh, you're bulk then yeah we like to take care of any trailer problems with you guys' when we were discussing getting a bald trailer tire replaced on the way to a load. The way the conversation went anyone listening could question whether or not they knowingly screw with safety if you're van. You have roughly 15 thousand van drivers in SNI's fleet, but less than 900-1k bulk drivers. By the numbers we get treated better.

Also driving tanks is a different animal than driving vans, I'm sure by what you're read and seen you know that. If you start out in the van division, you're more likely to develop certain 'unsafe' driving practices, that could outright kill you or those around you if you tried those habits pulling an 79k pound liquid load.

Simple things like changing lanes, taking curves, using the various on and off ramps are all different from van to bulk. I've seen van drivers of many companies change lanes so fast and with so much whip in their driving that if that were tried in a bulk tank you'd likely jackknife or rollover right there. Van drivers going 'off road' for whatever reason on the highway, then jerking themselves back on after at least the outside set of tandems were driving on dirt or grass. Taking an off ramp at anything close to or above the 'yellow posted speed' is outright suicidal if you go from interstate to a 15mph off ramp. That means you better be down to 5-10 BEFORE you hit the curve. Inertia is a beotch and driving a tank is being as smooth as possible in situations like those.

Like most professions the more you do something the more 'easy' it becomes to you and thus the less you pay attention and the more complacent you get. Just like being a cop it's that complacency that will get you killed. The average line of duty death is a male middle aged cop with 8+ years on. That fact is due simply to the fact that as rookies. in any profession, you tend to be more careful and do things 'right'. That same tendency can be brought into the difference in driving van versus bulk. If you happen to start getting complacent while driving a van and start doing marginally safe things, then doing those same things while driving a tank could get you killed.

That's why I think you can and probably should hone those driving skills in a tank first. Sure you could get litterally thousands of miles driving on snowy/rainslicked mountain roads before you switch, but that is not the same as driving those same miles already, safely, in a tank.

Re: Back on Subject: Tankers
 

Thats right!!

Thats right!

Where the majority of fuel tankers are concerned, this is definitely right. The weight of the load will collapse the landing gear quickly, and those tanks have warnings plastered all over them concerning this. The chemical tankers that Cyanide and I pull have landing gear that will support the loaded tank and we often hook and drop loaded tanks, but again, the landing gear is made to carry the weight.

[b]And its a "sight to behold"!!! when that happens.[/quote]

OK, thats fair! Its simple though....and if you pull fuel or chemicals... you have to know it: A red 1203 placard can be used on a tanker that is used to load both gasoline and diesel, but a 1202 placard can only be used on a tanker that only used for diesel or heating oil, etc.

AMEN!!! to that!!! But timing your shifts can make a little difference... but as you said...when merging onto an Interstate....you got get with the program....

Heckuva note that is.... We generally weigh over 76,000 when we are moving loaded, though I have been close to 80K. Some of the chemicals we haul weigh as much as 15-17 lbs per gallon.... Surges are definitely no fun then!

Learned that the very first winter I pulled a tank. Just about freaked me out to see it. I thought I forgot to set the brakes! But it was a thin sheen of ice in the parking lot....so it slid a little!

I tend to agree, but I agree also with Cyanide that a new driver getting into tankers needs to go with a darn good company that has a real training program for the new driver, and has a real serious regard for safety overall. And the training needs to be long and extensive, and if hazmat is involved alot of HM126F training. Lots of "hands on" under the watchful eyes of a well seasoned "tanker yanker".

Annie, thanks for your post! Its good to see the tanker people come out of the woodwork and post!!

"rcso".... :D Well said, and 100% correct! Couldn't have said it better, all of it!!

Not necessarily. A man of your age is more likely to view things a little different than a much younger person. Sorry young folks, but its a bit of a reality. The flip side of pulling vans is that you may also learn some bad habits....and do things like rcso mentioned. Things you can get away with pulling a van may be your undoing with a tank.

For instance.... the vast majority of tanks will roll over on their side when loaded if tilted just 18 degrees to the side. A van is far more tolerant, though I wouldn't recommend anyone trying to push that envelope.

A panic stop from highway speed ending up with the tractor at a 45 or more degree angle to the tank....maybe even less than 45 degrees could result in a roll over as well when the surge hits the head.

Pulling a tank requires patience, care, attention, and staying completely aware of everything going on around you. And as rcso said... "complacency" can be terminal.....

I think rcso will agree with this point as well: If you are pulling a chemical tanker.... ETA's being missed are not the end of the world. JIT with a tanker is a whole different animal. You get plenty of time to do the job. Its never done in a "its already late" mode. Safety is paramount!

Not necessarily. A man of your age is more likely to view things a little different than a much younger person. Sorry young folks, but its a bit of a reality. The flip side of pulling vans is that you may also learn some bad habits....and do things like rcso mentioned. Things you can get away with pulling a van may be your undoing with a tank.

For instance.... the vast majority of tanks will roll over on their side when loaded if tilted just 18 degrees to the side. A van is far more tolerant, though I wouldn't recommend anyone trying to push that envelope.


A panic stop from highway speed ending up with the tractor at a 45 or more degree angle to the tank....maybe even less than 45 degrees could result in a roll over as well when the surge hits the head.

Pulling a tank requires patience, care, attention, and staying completely aware of everything going on around you. And as rcso said... "complacency" can be terminal.....

I think rcso will agree with this point as well: If you are pulling a chemical tanker.... ETA's being missed are not the end of the world. JIT with a tanker is a whole different animal. You get plenty of time to do the job. Its never done in a "its already late" mode. Safety is paramount![/quote]




So true about the van driving. I see vans driving in ways that I never could with a tank.

18 degree lean you say? This does not take long to get there if a corner is taken too fast. The load will try to go to the opposite side of the turn, thus rolling the tank over.

I have heard of this. 45 degrees you say? One time when I was stuck in the snow. I had the tractor, like you say, on more that a 45 degree angle to the tank, 1/2 full. And I was trying to go up a bit of a grade. The tank was teetering on the 5th in the downhill direction. Pretty scary watching it rock on the 5th. Got out of it very carefully.

So true. Defensive driving is a must!

As far as ETA's : I get there when I get there.

There are so many different types of tankers out there. Each one becomes so specialized. Different requirements and licences for different tankers and products hauled.

One thing I have come to realize is that there is such a difference from hauling tankers in the States and hauling in Ontario, Canada.
I have no special endorsement on my drivers licence to haul a tank. Class AZ drivers licence entitles you to drive anything on the road. The Z is for the air brakes.

Sky....How many of the facilities you drop loaded tanks at, require you to place chocks under the tires, and a minimum of one Jackstand under the front of the tank, centered with the kingpin? When dropping on a dirt lot, how many require 2 jackstands under the front, as well as pads under the landing legs?

Normally the only place I have ever dropped a loaded tank was in one of our own terminals. Haven't done it at a consignee. Most of our terminals have concrete pads for the tanks, and at a minimum where the lot is gravel, there is a concrete strip about 4 wide to drop the landing gear.

The only tanks I have dropped at a shipper have been empties to pick up a preloaded tank. I think about 50 to 60% of our loads are preloaded and the rest we go in the rack for loading. Normally when we reach our destination we do the unloading.

I've seen where other people have dropped tanks at plants and they've had all kinds of different arrangements for blocking the tires and jackstands and pads under the landing gear......

Well, I learned something tonight!! I was not aware that your AZ License covered everything like that. Here you have to have a tanker endorsement which is "T" on the license (CDL-A) and if you are going to pull hazmat and get the "H" endorsement..... it changes your tanker endorsement to "X" for tanker/hazmat. Food grade people generally only have T, but the ones that pull the alcohol used in liquor have to have the X. We don't have an indicator on the license for air brakes as the CDL-A includes air brakes. There's a separate test for it....but no letter for it.

The 18 degrees is what they told us in school.... All of us at Superior have to go to Kingsport, TN for a week of tanker training.... its a very thorough course for the week, and thats where I found out about the 18 degrees. And a lot of the training there is on HM126F training. I've pulled hazmat for 13 years now....and when I got there.... I found out just how little I really did know.... Ouch!! But I know it now!! :D

I'll take their word for it. I'm not the least inclined to try and find out. And I don't even want to see a tank teetering on a 5th wheel. I can well imagine you got out of the truck carefully.... 8)

Yes, I never knew much about the licencing in the States till I bought a computer and started reading these message boards. I find it all very informative.
There has been talk for years of changing the licencing requirements. (I can only speak of my province, for it is the one I know). It is way too easy to obtain a truck licence. The Government here has been talking for years of changing the licencing and having endorsements for tankers, etc. But....as with anything to do with Government, it will be talked about for years before anything is done.
So wow, you guys are pretty strict!

I had to learn as I went along. A lot of common sense. Most of the new drivers I know in my industry are experienced drivers when hired, but not on tankers. I'm know there are tanker companies that train their drivers to a certain extent.

I was chuckling a little about the 45 degree thing, because as I said, I learned all about that from experience. And re-reading my post, I didn't word that very well. :oops: What I meant, was, I drove out of that situation very carefully. :oops:

I can certainly understand the strictness of hauling dangerous goods and the extra training required. I imagine Superior does the same here.

But with food liquid food grade products, well, at least it won't catch fire or anything like that.

Thanks for the expertise!
Annie 8)

We (SNBC) drop loaded tanks all the time, fully loaded ones, empty ones, compartment loads, etc. Most of our OCs have the concrete strips to put the landing gear on, there are no chocks or blocks or what have you when we drop these trailers.

If it's anything but concrete and you're fully loaded then you are supposed to and should put down something beneath the legs to help spread out the weight (wood, concrete blocks, whatever is handy).

Of course if the ground can't handle the weight of a trailer being dropped, then you're probably already in trouble as you shouldn't be on that patch of land.

From what I've seen we use Brenner and Polar brand tanks. Whether or not the trailers we use are rated for such a thing, I don't personally know, but it's no less than a common occurance, and that's how we were taught to drop them the same way loaded or empty. Disconnect and slowly come out with your truck still underneath the trailer 'in case' the trailer falls, it'll fall on the frame. We don't have dump valves on our company trucks, the airbags 'flate' depending on whether or not their is weight on them. It's all about smoothness.

If customers use special means of bracing tanks after I've gone I can care less as long as they don't break the thing. :)


Being a 'Superior' driver (lol) I'm sure you're seen SNBC drivers doing this all over.

Tanker Memories
 

My tanker memories are from the 1980s. I thought is was difficult work. For some reason I did not take any photos, and I regret that now. I remember collecting 28% nitrogen with milk jugs from empty tankers and using it as lawn fertilizer. The product washes off the walls during the empty backhaul. I remember the day a co-worker had some problem at the asphalt plant and his hose plugged when the flow stopped. Our dispatcher came out to help. They lowered the hose into the hot product in the tanker to warm it up. I remember the load of transmission fluid to GM Truck & Coach, Pontiac, MI. The guard told me that a pipe fitter would meet me at the unloading area. I thought, "Wow! I'm going to get some help hooking up." A man appeared wearing a sport coat and tie. He said, "I'm the pipe fitter. There is the pipe you unload into. I will be back in an hour to sign your bills." Then he went through a hole in the chain link fence to a tavern across the street. :lol:

Lots of good arguments both ways. Thanks for the thoughtful replies - I don't have to make any instant decisions, so no worries. Guess I'll keep lurking and reading.

I'll amend what I said earlier, Nalco just made me use a 'jack stand' and put it under the loaded hazmat I dropped at their plant last night. :twisted: :P

I hope you had a tank endorsment when pulling this load....just sayin' :)

I have trained many drivers on my job and they all looked like this when the first 'wave' hit.... :shock:

Annie 8)

No tanker endorsement was needed to haul those containers on the flatbed, looked into that when we were given that load amongst other things.......wasn't that bad of a load just 'different' and was at the time enough to make me wonder about the tankers, and respect them all the more too....I know if that liquid could move in those containers how it did it's really got to inside those tanks.........and for me personally I'd want more experience and training in hauling them before I'd consider it long term myself

Scared Them Off?
 

Did they come back the next day, Annie? I trained more than a few on molten aluminum. Technically, I suppose the crucible is a tanker. The driver does not feel any surge because the crucible is filled to the top, but if the gaskets under the lid are not adequate, hot metal can escape on a turn or sudden stop. In fact, we tested the gaskets at the shipper by accelerating and sudden stopping in their building. The unloading process discouraged many job applicants and they never returned. Some said that their wives did not want them hauling hot metal. Whatever.

Well I waste enough time as it is getting into a slicker suit and crap, I bet one of those hot suits are a beoch to use?

I would imagine that they are... 8) The "gumby suits" that we have to wear are bad enough in fair weather....but when its hot and humid.... :shock: :sad: :x But then I console myself with the memory that my "clock" starts the minute I arrive at the gate.....so all the time I spend getting dressed up and dressed down, etc.....is all on the clock and line 4, so while money can't buy happiness....it can certainly take the discomfort out of wearing a gumby suit. 8) 8)

Welder's Suit
 

We wore welder's leathers while unloading molten aluminum. The employer provided a heavy leather jacket, chaps and spats. The driver provided thick, long cuffed gloves, hard hat and thick face shield. Molten aluminum flows from the crucible to the furnace in a ceramic-lined trough similar to a cement chute from a concrete mixer. If something goes wrong, the driver can stop the flow of orange-hot metal by jamming a plug into the hole at the base of the crucible. This plug is attached to a handle before unloading begins. It is cone-shaped and covered with an asbestos sleeve. The plug is jammed into the hole and beat in with a 3 lb. hammer. It is the driver's responsibility to stop the flow in an emergency or before moving the rig if the consignee wants the load split between two furnaces.

We only get paid downtime after being there for 3 hours. and it's only 10/hour.


I'll tell you what, you can keep that molten stuff to yourself. :D

Smelter is Closed
 

The smelter in Benton Harbor closed several years ago, and Matlack is history. When unloading molten metal, the first hour was "free time". Frequently, the whole process was completed in an hour. You guessed it. I was employed by a fleet owner who leased tractors with drivers to Matlack. We were non-union.

BUMMER!!


We don't handle any of the molten stuff....we just pull chemicals, though occasionally we pull loads that are placarded as "HOT"..... Me, I haven't any desire to pull "hot liquid metals"...... 8)