[mike3fan]

Originally Posted by Kevin0915

If you sign a log book at 06:00 when you wake up/start your day/do your PTI, whatever, are all your entries done for the day? No. Your line is not at the end of the 24hr block, thus ALL ENTRIES are not completed. And signing a log book at 06:00 would/could be considered falsification. Much like if you were parked for the night, knew your 11 and 14 hr clocks were burnt up, and it was 23:00, most drivers draw the line to the end of the day....that is falsification. Do i do that? sure, who dont. But i dont sign my logbook till the end of the day.

Ok, if your the DOT/Tropper please show me which Reg, you are gonna cite to write an infraction that clearly states that the log [must] be signed at the end of the day?

[Rev.Vassago]

Originally Posted by Kevin0915

i am correct, arent i?

No, you're not. Even if the log is not signed, you can still be cited for falsifying your log.

Question 3: If a driver’s record of duty status is not signed, may enforcement action be taken on the current day’s record if it contains false information?
Guidance: Enforcement action can be taken against the driver even though that record may not be signed. The regulations require the driver to keep the record of duty status current to the time of last change of duty status (whether or not the record has been signed). Also, §395.8(e) states that making false reports shall make the driver and/or the carrier liable to prosecution.

The regs do not say when the log needs to be signed, only that it needs to be signed. What I am assuming is the confusion here is this:

§396.11 Driver vehicle inspection report(s). (a) Report required. Every motor carrier shall require its drivers to report, and every driver shall prepare a report in writing at the completion of each day’s work on each vehicle operated and the report shall cover at least the following parts and accessories:

But the vehicle inspection report is not the log.

[Kevin0915]

Originally Posted by Rev.Vassago

No, you're not. Even if the log is not signed, you can still be cited for falsifying your log.

dont disagree with you there, but re-read my post and tell me where i'm wrong?

[golfhobo]

Originally Posted by Kevin0915

If you sign a log book at 06:00 when you wake up/start your day/do your PTI, whatever, are all your entries done for the day? No. Your line is not at the end of the 24hr block, thus ALL ENTRIES are not completed. And signing a log book at 06:00 would/could be considered falsification. Much like if you were parked for the night, knew your 11 and 14 hr clocks were burnt up, and it was 23:00, most drivers draw the line to the end of the day....that is falsification. Do i do that? sure, who dont. But i dont sign my logbook till the end of the day.

Okay...just to do a little Lawyer thinking of my own....

If you sign it at 0h dark thirty as you say, and you have ONLY entered the PTI and (I guess started a line or indicated the beginning of line 3) are stopped 15 mins down the road, at the TIME you are stopped and inspected, ALL your entries would be current and correct.

The reg you quoted only says that your signature certifies ALL entries that are ON the log. Now.... you wouldn't want to get caught having finished out the day's log (as you stated) before you have actually arrived at a delivery and/or made it.

I doubt finishing out the night once you are ROD and can't legally move would be a major problem. EVEN if you got rousted at 11 p.m. for a logbook check, it would not be "untrue" that you are OFF DUTY at that time.... and WILL be until after midnight.

I agree that there seems to be no clarification in the regs (big surprise) about WHEN to sign the log, but I believe the "spirit" of the reg assumes that it will be signed after the LAST duty status change of the day.

I also found very interesting the concept that until you sign it, you SHOULD be allowed to correct it without getting a ticket. But, I also know that the DOT probably don't THINK that way.

[golfhobo]

Originally Posted by 607

Also I disassemble my log book pages or to put it another way I use loose log book pages. The Trooper had a major problem with this. He wanted to know why and I explained that "it's the way I was trained".

I even showed him my clipboard, demonstrated the manner in which I used the loose pages, and the benefits for me....

If anyone has definitive information or can point me in the right direction I would appreciate it.

You have NO IDEA how lucky you might be! ONE slip of the tongue, and you COULD have received a ticket for falsification based on your OWN testimony.

NEVER offer more information than you are asked for.

Loose leaf logs are an immediate "flag" for the officer that you might be cheating your logs. Whether you are or not... you could "explain" yourself right into an OOS order AND/OR a ticket.

BTW.... I'm pointing you toward the "Rules, Regs, and Dac, oh my" subforum on this site (where this thread actually belongs.) You will find more info on logging there.

Tell us more about yourself, and welcome to CAD!

[Rev.Vassago]

Originally Posted by golfhobo

I also found very interesting the concept that until you sign it, you SHOULD be allowed to correct it without getting a ticket.

Where are you getting this from?

[Rev.Vassago]

Originally Posted by Kevin0915

dont disagree with you there, but re-read my post and tell me where i'm wrong?

this line right here:

And signing a log book at 06:00 would/could be considered falsification.

No, it wouldn't. The regs do not say when the log needs to be signed. The regs only indicate when the vehicle inspection report needs to be signed.

[LightsChromeHorsepower]

Originally Posted by Kevin0915

i am correct, arent i?

You're not correct. You're Kevin. The Supah truckah.

[golfhobo]

Originally Posted by Rev.Vassago

Where are you getting this from?

From the "hypothetical" in the O.P. It's called English Comprehension, Rev. You should try it sometime. :lol2:

:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

[Uturn2001]

This is one of those nice....read it any way you like it regs.

The regs say that signing the log book certified that all entries are correct.

Valid arguments can be made as to this meaning (for those who advocate signing 1st thing in the day) all entries up to the current one are correct or for those who advocate signing at the end of the day it can just as easily mean that you have completed all entries for the day and certify them to be correct.

Because no specific time frame is given for the signing off on your log entries you are going to be right and wrong in the eyes of a DOT cop depending on how they personally and/or their state interprets this rule, but because of the same vagueness they would have a very hard time making any citation stick for signing it either way.