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belpre122 08-30-2008 11:45 AM

Driver released from prison
 
WESTVILLE, Ind. -- A Michigan truck driver walked out of prison a free man Friday after serving two years behind bars for the traffic deaths of four Taylor University students -- including one whose identity was mistaken -- and a university staff member.

Robert F. Spencer, Canton Township, near Detroit, was released Friday morning after completing a year in state prison for his convictions on charges of reckless homicide and criminal recklessness. Spokesman Doug Garrison of the Indiana Department of Correction confirmed the release.
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Spencer had served about a year in jail before his sentencing.

The case drew national attention when it was learned that a coroner had misidentified one of the dead students as one of five others who survived.

The daughters of Taylor employee Monica Felver, who died in the crash, said it was too soon for Spencer to be released.

"One second of him falling asleep, and we will suffer for the rest of our lives," Hope Beckley, Montpelier, and Amy Atkins and Kelly Montgomery, Hartford City, said in a statement released Thursday to the Hartford City News-Times.

"Him getting out after a year is a slap of more pain for us, but no time would ever have been enough time," the statement said. "He has sentenced all the families to a lifetime of hurt, loneliness and complete loss."

Investigators said Spencer had fallen asleep at the wheel after he had driven at least nine hours more than allowed under federal rules.

Spencer pleaded guilty last year and was given an eight-year prison sentence with four years suspended. Jay Circuit Judge Brian Hutchison could have sentenced Spencer to as much as 24 years in prison under a deal with prosecutors, but he noted Spencer's remorse and cooperation.

Spencer also received credit for good behavior and nearly a year already served in jail before he was sentenced in August 2007.

Later Friday, Spencer reported to the Jay County probation office and asked for his probation to be transferred to Michigan.

The judge also ordered the high school dropout, as conditions of his probation, to earn his GED within a year of his release from prison, to pay a $5,000 fine and to serve 100 hours of community service for each of the five lives he took. He also cannot drive professionally while on probation.

"I know I'll have to deal with this the rest of my life," Spencer said at his sentencing hearing.

Spencer's truck collided with the Taylor van about 10 miles from the Upland campus as students and staff were returning from Fort Wayne on April 26, 2006. Taylor is an evangelical Christian liberal arts school of 1,850 students about midway between Indianapolis and Fort Wayne.

A coroner misidentified one of the students killed -- Laura VanRyn, 22, Caledonia, Mich. -- as one of the survivors, then-19-year-old Whitney Cerak, Gaylord, Mich.

The mix-up wasn't discovered until VanRyn's family realized that the injured woman they thought was their recovering daughter actually was Cerak, whose family thought she had died in the crash. Cerak has since recovered and returned to school.

Also killed in the crash were students Bradley J. Larson, 22, Elm Grove, Wis.; Elizabeth A. Smith, 22, Mount Zion, Ill.; and Laurel E. Erb, 20, St. Charles, Ill.; and employee Felver, 54, Hartford City.

TomB985 08-30-2008 12:02 PM

Wow...haven't read about that in awhile....

Well, I'm gonna get flamed for saying this, but...I'm glad they didn't throw the book at the driver. Oh, don't get me wrong, what he did was inexcusable, and in no way, shape or form should he ever get behind the wheel of another CMV....but....it was an accident. Sure, he never should have been in that position, never should have violated the HOS, but it was still an accident.

Seems that often the "justice" system is looking more for retribution than anything else with things like these..... :?

Snowman7 08-30-2008 12:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TomB985
Wow...haven't read about that in awhile....

Well, I'm gonna get flamed for saying this, but...I'm glad they didn't throw the book at the driver. Oh, don't get me wrong, what he did was inexcusable, and in no way, shape or form should he ever get behind the wheel of another CMV....but....it was an accident. Sure, he never should have been in that position, never should have violated the HOS, but it was still an accident.

Seems that often the "justice" system is looking more for retribution than anything else with things like these..... :?

:shock: Did you miss the part where he drove 9 hours past the HOS? That's not an accident.

Malaki86 08-30-2008 12:12 PM

Driving 9 HOURS OVER ON YOUR HOURS and killing people is NOT an accident... Sorry - that ratcrap pos should've spent the rest of his life behind bars.

TomB985 08-30-2008 12:15 PM

Ha....I knew I'd get those replies!

Sure, I agree...it is rediculous and negligent what he did...but locking someone away for life is nothing short of retribution...Regardless of how severe the sentence is, it will NEVER bring back those killed in the accident!


*** This part only is from TomB's wife. Before you all form your ideas about this from this post, you really should read the book. The family of the two girls whose identity was messed up wrote a book. I've read it. They give you details you aren't going to find any where else and they let you in your life when they didn't have too. Yes what happened was horrible and the guy who did it was being extremely irresponsible but read the book and see how the family has dealt with it. No matter if that guy spent the next 50 years in jail, its not going to change what happened and they realized this and its not going to bring their daughter back. Your going to say it would make the family feel better and thats what our jusitce system is for but thats not true. Yes our "justice" system is meant to "reform" people but your forgetting one major fact EVERYONE involved is NEVER going to forget what happened and he certainly is going to have to live with that GUILT for the rest of his life and thats far worse then spending 2 years in jail or 50. (btw, I'm not defending this guy at all, I agree with you what he did was wrong and stupid and being put away for some time was right but I also was a CRJ major and got to look at a whole new side of things....) ***

Malaki86 08-30-2008 12:19 PM

So, in your own words and thinking, we shouldn't lock up ANYONE for LIFE when they kill someone else, let alone as many as he did. Hell, get Ted Bundy out of prison - it was an accident that he killed people.

What about the families of those he killed? Sorry, if I was a father to one of the students killed and I just found out that the MURDERER was release after that short of time - well, I'd be doing some target practice on his ass.

Orangetxguy 08-30-2008 12:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Malaki86
So, in your own words and thinking, we shouldn't lock up ANYONE for LIFE when they kill someone else, let alone as many as he did. Hell, get Ted Bundy out of prison - it was an accident that he killed people.

What about the families of those he killed? Sorry, if I was a father to one of the students killed and I just found out that the MURDERER was release after that short of time - well, I'd be doing some target practice on his ass.


Hate to disappoint you....but Teddy was turned into worm bait by Florida many many moons ago!

I'd be shocked to hear that they buried him in a box!!!

Snowman7 08-30-2008 12:28 PM

Its called punishment and part of the idea is to deter others from committing the same crime. 1 year for a serious violation resulting in 5 deaths is a slap on the hand. What if he had been drunk instead? Would you still think a year is enough?

Orangetxguy 08-30-2008 12:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snowman7
Its called punishment and part of the idea is to deter others from committing the same crime. 1 year for a serious violation resulting in 5 deaths is a slap on the hand. What if he had been drunk instead? Would you still think a year is enough?


See......Islam has this covered quite nicely.

Crime; Murder, Drugs or Rape.....Beheading.

Theft; Removal of offending hand.

Vandalism; Caning. 400 beats. Property owner gets first 50!!!

Now.....wouldn't that deter some crime??

TomB985 08-30-2008 12:37 PM

For anyone who cares to read the book, heres a link:


http://www.amazon.com/Mistaken-Ident.../dp/1416567356

Malaki86 08-30-2008 12:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Orangetxguy
Quote:

Originally Posted by Malaki86
So, in your own words and thinking, we shouldn't lock up ANYONE for LIFE when they kill someone else, let alone as many as he did. Hell, get Ted Bundy out of prison - it was an accident that he killed people.

What about the families of those he killed? Sorry, if I was a father to one of the students killed and I just found out that the MURDERER was release after that short of time - well, I'd be doing some target practice on his ass.


Hate to disappoint you....but Teddy was turned into worm bait by Florida many many moons ago!

I'd be shocked to hear that they buried him in a box!!!

Ok - so bad example there, but you knew what I was getting at. I just couldn't think of any other serial killers off the top of my head.

As far as the punishments listed, ya - I'm pretty sure I would NEVER do anything against the law in those countries.

Malaki86 08-30-2008 12:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snowman7
Its called punishment and part of the idea is to deter others from committing the same crime. 1 year for a serious violation resulting in 5 deaths is a slap on the hand. What if he had been drunk instead? Would you still think a year is enough?

Why would he? It would still be an accident in his eyes...

coastie 08-30-2008 12:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Malaki86
Hell, get Ted Bundy out of prison - it was an accident that he killed people.

What about the families of those he killed? Sorry, if I was a father to one of the students killed and I just found out that the MURDERER was release after that short of time - well, I'd be doing some target practice on his ass.

Murder and Death in an Accident is 2 different things. Serial killers not an accident, it intentional. did the Driver go out with the intent to kill? No, he did a stupid thing and drove more than the law allowed and fell asleep. What get me is the double standards. If he was driving a car and fell asleep at the wheel oh it was just an accident but since he was driving a Truck it was MURDER there for adding to the term Killer Truckers that Atlanta love to use....

Plus Ted Bundy is Dead.... Put to death.

Rev.Vassago 08-30-2008 12:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by coastie
Murder and Death in an Accident is 2 different things. Serial killers not an accident, it intentional. did the Driver go out with the intent to kill?

He intentionally drove beyond what he is legally allowed to drive. At that point, it is no longer an "accident". It is INTENTIONAL.

Quote:

What get me is the double standards. If he was driving a car and fell asleep at the wheel oh it was just an accident but since he was driving a Truck it was MURDER there for adding to the term Killer Truckers that Atlanta love to use....
So you are saying that truck drivers shouldn't be held to a higher standard than the rest of the public? And here I thought you had to get training, and a special license to drive a CMV, indicating very clearly that there is some higher standards involved...... :roll:

(BTW, it is arguments like yours which help employers and shippers to keep rates and wages down. After all, there's no higher standard, is there?)

Malaki86 08-30-2008 01:07 PM

http://www.wboy.com/story.cfm?func=v...&storyid=36317

This is a story about a drunk driver in a car that killed 5 people. He received 41 years for it.

Why so long? After all, it was only an ACCIDENT...

coastie 08-30-2008 01:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rev.Vassago
Quote:

Originally Posted by coastie
Murder and Death in an Accident is 2 different things. Serial killers not an accident, it intentional. did the Driver go out with the intent to kill?

He intentionally drove beyond what he is legally allowed to drive. At that point, it is no longer an "accident". It is INTENTIONAL.

Did he go out aiming for them? Saying I am out to kill these people? No. Did he say I want you to die tonight? No. Did he have a motive to go out to kill them? No. So was it intentionally? No So if it was not intentionally it was an Accident.


I am not saying he was right for him to drive beyond his hours, but the problem I see is even if he was still with in his hours and fell asleep and would gotten the same sentence. There a driver here from where i live is looking at the same thing, yet he did not fall asleep but passed out, went through the median and killed a girl, he only been on the road 45 minutes. Yet he faces the same sentence. He did not know of the medical problem till then, yet he may face prison time. Was his Intentional? No, but facing the same.

What I am saying is All should have a high Standard in driving, You can kill a person just as easy in a car as you can in a Big Truck....

Malaki86 08-30-2008 01:22 PM

So now you're saying that someone with an unknown medical problem is the same as someone who drives almost 2x the legal hours and falls asleep at the wheel is the same thing?

RebelDarlin 08-30-2008 02:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Orangetxguy
Quote:

Originally Posted by Snowman7
Its called punishment and part of the idea is to deter others from committing the same crime. 1 year for a serious violation resulting in 5 deaths is a slap on the hand. What if he had been drunk instead? Would you still think a year is enough?


See......Islam has this covered quite nicely.

Crime; Murder, Drugs or Rape.....Beheading.

Theft; Removal of offending hand.

Vandalism; Caning. 400 beats. Property owner gets first 50!!!

Now.....wouldn't that deter some crime??

There ya go making sense again! But we're far too 'civilized' to treat CRIMINALS that way. We have to give them cable TV and a free college education. Then we wonder why so many keep ending up back in there and why our prisons are so over crowded.

navydad 08-30-2008 02:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rev.Vassago
Quote:

Originally Posted by coastie
Murder and Death in an Accident is 2 different things. Serial killers not an accident, it intentional. did the Driver go out with the intent to kill?

He intentionally drove beyond what he is legally allowed to drive. At that point, it is no longer an "accident". It is INTENTIONAL.

Quote:

What get me is the double standards. If he was driving a car and fell asleep at the wheel oh it was just an accident but since he was driving a Truck it was MURDER there for adding to the term Killer Truckers that Atlanta love to use....
So you are saying that truck drivers shouldn't be held to a higher standard than the rest of the public? And here I thought you had to get training, and a special license to drive a CMV, indicating very clearly that there is some higher standards involved...... :roll:

(BTW, it is arguments like yours which help employers and shippers to keep rates and wages down. After all, there's no higher standard, is there?)


You have to get training to drive a car also! Then the state gives you a SPECIAL license. Its not a fishing, hunting or dog license! Held to a higher standard, bull crap! Everyone who gets into a motor vehicle should suffer the same responsibility!!!!! Car or truck no difference!!!

Mackman 08-30-2008 02:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by navydad
You have to get training to drive a car also! Then the state gives you a SPECIAL license. Its not a fishing, hunting or dog license! Held to a higher standard, bull crap! Everyone who gets into a motor vehicle should suffer the same responsibility!!!!! Car or truck no difference!!!

x2

Roadhog 08-30-2008 03:12 PM

Housekeeping...topic moved to Anything And Everything

flood 08-30-2008 03:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Orangetxguy


See......Islam has this covered quite nicely.

Crime; Murder, Drugs or Rape.....Beheading.

Theft; Removal of offending hand. RIGHT HAND do you why it's the right hand..?

Vandalism; Caning. 400 beats. Property owner gets first 50!!!

Now.....wouldn't that deter some crime??

Adultery; STONING

NotSteve 08-30-2008 03:25 PM

The jails are too full.

A friend of mine was driving home at 2am and crested a hill as an elderly man was crossing over to get his mail. Joe killed him. He had a 6 pack on the seat unopened and refused a breathalyzer and blood alcohol test but did pass the officers sobriety test.

He was convicted by a jury to 15 years in jail.

After 2 weeks in jail he was awoken in the middle of the night and told to gather his things. No explanation was given. He was put into a cruiser and dropped off in the middle of my home town and told to get out. Again, no explanation.

He called me knowing I'm up early and I went and got him and brought him home to his wife and children a little later in the morning.

Joe had to go back to his lawyer to find out WTF. After a month of getting nowhere the lawyer was told off the record that Joe now has no record and this never happened. The judge deemed him not a threat and the jails were just overflowing with hardened criminals.

And, that was that.

movinit 08-30-2008 03:31 PM

This case was definitely was not an ACCIDENT and it was not murder. It was involuntary manslaughter and here is the Merriam-Webster definition:


Main Entry: involuntary manslaughter
Function: noun
Date: circa 1879

: manslaughter resulting from the failure to perform a legal duty expressly required to safeguard human life, from the commission of an unlawful act not constituting a felony, or from the commission of a lawful act in a negligent or improper manner


This driver failed to perform according to his LEGAL hours in order to safeguard human life and therefore committed manslaughter. Anyone who does not think this driver deserves more punishment than what he received is probably one of the same, more than likely they themselves push the legal limits every day on their logs. Thousands of drivers do it every day and they give us all a bad name. I will turn a driver over to law enforcement in a heart beat if I learn they are doing drugs, obviously drunk or brag to me that they are past their eleventh hour. The rest of us truck drivers are at risk too of these idiots plowing into us and the more that are off the road the better.

Rev.Vassago 08-30-2008 10:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by coastie
Did he go out aiming for them? Saying I am out to kill these people? No. Did he say I want you to die tonight? No. Did he have a motive to go out to kill them? No. So was it intentionally?

Yes. He intentionally broke the law by driving over his hours.

Quote:

So if it was not intentionally it was an Accident.
Negligence is not an accident. Recklessness is not an accident.

Quote:

I am not saying he was right for him to drive beyond his hours, but the problem I see is even if he was still with in his hours and fell asleep and would gotten the same sentence.
You have no evidence of that.

Quote:

There a driver here from where i live is looking at the same thing, yet he did not fall asleep but passed out, went through the median and killed a girl, he only been on the road 45 minutes. Yet he faces the same sentence. He did not know of the medical problem till then, yet he may face prison time. Was his Intentional? No, but facing the same.
"Facing the same" and "convicted of the same" are two completely different things.

Quote:

What I am saying is All should have a high Standard in driving, You can kill a person just as easy in a car as you can in a Big Truck....
And here I thought the fact that there is a difference of about 77,000 lbs would play a factor......:roll:


Quote:

Originally Posted by navydad
You have to get training to drive a car also! Then the state gives you a SPECIAL license. Its not a fishing, hunting or dog license! Held to a higher standard, bull crap! Everyone who gets into a motor vehicle should suffer the same responsibility!!!!! Car or truck no difference!!!

Really? A person with a license to drive a car can automatically drive a Class 8 vehicle? And here I thought truck drivers required special training above and beyond an automobile license......:roll:

Skywalker 08-31-2008 02:15 AM

Frankly, what happened when the guy drove 9 hours beyond legal HOS was not an accident. It was negligent homicide, period. NO-ONE put a gun in his mouth and forced him to drive after his hours were over! He made a conscious decision to violate the laws. He took the lives of others into his own hands....and destroyed them. He had no right to do so. He did the crime, so he should do the time.

It isn't all about punishment and retribution....because nothing will bring those 5 people back...nothing. But what the sentence is about beyond any punitive action is about protecting society from stupid irresponsible idiots.

xcarsalesman 08-31-2008 02:43 AM

dam! mike vick got more time than that, for dog fighting!

Orangetxguy 08-31-2008 03:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xcarsalesman
dam! mike vick got more time than that, for dog fighting!

Go figure...and he played a better brand of football too!

JeffTheTerrible 08-31-2008 09:09 AM

I'm a bit divided on the matter here. Yes, I do believe that he is accountable for his actions, but the part about it which gets me..

Well, I'm seeing a variety of sentences. There's this two year sentence, there's the 41 year sentence, etc. But I'm reading that the average amount of time actually served for deliberate acts of murder is only six to eight years nationwide? It's not the bit about the driver being held accountable for his actions which I take issue with... it's what seems to me to be quite a bit of an imbalance here, assuming these sources which are giving the me six-to-eight statistic (that seems to be the average deduced from a number of sources) are accurate.


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