[GMAN]

Some Canadian doctor ????? did an article on AOL regarding how good their health care was. He denied that there were long waits, delays for tests, etc. What a crock. Look at these statistics:




A recent Investor's Business Daily article provided some interesting statistics from a survey by the United Nations International Health Organization.

% Men & Women who survived a cancer five years after diagnosis
U.S. 65%
England46%
Canada42%

% Patients diagnosed with Diabetes who received treatment within six months:
U.S.93%
England15%
Canada43%

% Seniors needing hip replacement who received it within six months:
U.S.90%
England15%
Canada43%

% referred to a medical specialist who see one within one month:
U.S.77%
England40%
Canada43%

Number of MRI Scanners (a prime diagnostic tool) per Million people
U.S.71
England14
Canada 18

% of seniors (65+), with low income, who say they are in "excellent health"
U.S.12%
England 2%
Canada 6%

I don't know about you but I can't wait for "Universal Healthcare" ?
It this what we want?

[COLT]

The Canadian system may not be perfect but all things considered, pretty good. I'm no expert on the subject but those who are rank the U.S. system way behind some 3 world countries, something like 82nd...

But the U.S. system scores # 1 in one department, COST. Your paying about a trillion more per year than the top ranked health care in the world yet not everyone is covered, that boggles the mind.

Statistics and phony e.mails etc. are flying around as this is a heated subject, don't believe all the propaganda, the people skimming that extra trillion have alot to lose.

One more stat I found that should make you think...

On July 17, 2007, Professor Elizabeth Warren from the Harvard Law School testified before the House Committee on the Judiciary that rising health care costs are linked to increased bankruptcy rates among the middle-class. She states that since 2000, “an estimated five million families have filed for bankruptcy in the aftermath of serious medical problems. The current health care finance system is bankrupting hard-working, play-by-the-rules American families.”



Read more: Medical Bankruptcy Epidemic: Health Care Costs Trigger Half of All Personal Bankruptcies in U.S. | Suite101.com

[Dejanh]

Mike, i have had a chance to visit a foreign doctor many times over back in Europe where they have universal care, and i can tell you first hand that there were no waits and that i was taken cared of in timely and profesional manner.

No one ever died in a emergency room there waiting for a care...every now and then someone, somewhere seems to pass away here....

People are scared of the unknown and that is reasonable, BUT, when you have money to pay for these overbloated military programs, wars and bases on every continent on this earth, universal health care is just a drop in a bucket compared to it.
Canada is one of the most wealthy nations on this earth, I have been there many times and have many friends living there. No one ever complains about the quality health care, they have everything we have here its just that they pay alot less for it.

All insurance companies are a fraud, just like banks and even though its a trillion dollar buisiness they are still getting bailed out by US(me and you), yet give us no service in return. Insurance companies refuse to insure those who have pre-existing medical condition. Why, because they can, just like the banks can take our deposits, invest it in a stock market, piss it away then get more money from our government to make up those loses......They are a burden on our society and unless we stand up for ourselves we will never fix this problem. Standing up against a trillion dollar machine is very hard, very hard indeed.

[Windwalker]

Originally Posted by Dejanh

All insurance companies are a fraud, just like banks and even though its a trillion dollar buisiness they are still getting bailed out by US(me and you), yet give us no service in return. Insurance companies refuse to insure those who have pre-existing medical condition. Why, because they can, just like the banks can take our deposits, invest it in a stock market, piss it away then get more money from our government to make up those loses......They are a burden on our society and unless we stand up for ourselves we will never fix this problem. Standing up against a trillion dollar machine is very hard, very hard indeed.

Next election, keep something in mind...

Insurance executives are among those that are able to contribute $100,000 to the Republican Party, or $200,000 to the Democrats in order to sit in on the PLATFORM COMMITTEE. (And, they DO do this.) The Platform committee sets the goals and policies of the next administration, Republican or Democrat, and also represent the group with the largest number of lobbyists. In return for all that participation, they also get favorable legislation passed, such as MANDATORY INSURANCE. That is equal to CAPTIVE AUDIENCE. No matter which insurance company you go with, YOU WILL PAY THEIR RATE BECAUSE THE LAW SAYS YOU WILL. And, their finances are so complex, even the regulators and auditors do not fully understand it all. They could be financing drug cartels and get away with it for decades with no one realizing it. (My daughter-in-law works at an insurance company, and is the head of her department. She reports directly to one of the senior VP's. One of the areas that seldom ever gets any publicity. She doesn't say much about her work, but every now and then, if you don't miss the comment completely, it's an "ATTENTION-GETTER".)

Want to break the back of insurance companies and their hold on this country??? Make insurance VOLINTARY.

The founder of Century Insurance in Stevens Point, WI once made the comment that he was wealthy enough to put any man into the governor's seat that he wanted, regardless of how the public felt about that candidate. Think about it.

[Dejanh]

Originally Posted by Windwalker

Want to break the back of insurance companies and their hold on this country??? Make insurance VOLINTARY.

Insurance is voluntary now, when i was working 9-5 regular job i didn't want insurance and i have never had it, no one forced me to sign up.

I don't mind paying for insurance, i don't mind at all, its just that I KNOW when it comes time to use it, i will not get my monies worth. Everything concerning health care in this country is just insanely expensive. Last year i had to do some work on my teeth. I actualy looked at the pricing structure here and it about blew my mind. It would cost me around 2500$ to fix my teeth, only three of them with one of them i was told needed to be taken out completely.

I purchased the ticket to Croatia as I have a family there for 800$, drilled out two of them and filled the other one with white filling without taking it out, for only 80$. I stayed there on a month long vacation anyways with my wife and i took the best doctor in a city. Excelent choice and i have been a happy camper ever since. My parents went there for a minor surgery just 4 months ago due to very high cost of doing it here....even though they have insurance!!!!!! That 20% that insurance didn't pay on their policy bought them a month long vacation and made their stay very pleasant...


Cost in the states is unbelivable and you dont know it untill you actualy go out and compare it around.

[Windwalker]

I was speaking more in terms of auto insurance. If my own income had kept up with the increases over the years, I would be making more than half a million dollars a year now.

[Dejanh]

Originally Posted by Windwalker

I was speaking more in terms of auto insurance. If my own income had kept up with the increases over the years, I would be making more than half a million dollars a year now.

It does not matter what insurance it is, they are all the same, and yes, i recieved a notice from Allstate just the other day, saying that my policy in increasing in price...

[dobry4u]

Originally Posted by Dejanh

It does not matter what insurance it is, they are all the same, and yes, i recieved a notice from Allstate just the other day, saying that my policy in increasing in price...

I have Allstate too... the hand logo is where they want you to put your money

[VitoCorleone99]

Originally Posted by Dejanh

...BUT, when you have money to pay for these overbloated military programs, wars and bases on every continent on this earth, universal health care is just a drop in a bucket compared to it.

$1.5-2 trillion in ten years is a drop in the bucket? You and I apparently have vastly differing understandings of that metaphor. And that's not even for a "universal" plan. We (the insured) would still be paying our premiums and co-pays, over and above the federal outlay.

Canada is one of the most wealthy nations on this earth, I have been there many times and have many friends living there. No one ever complains about the quality health care, they have everything we have here its just that they pay alot less for it.

And yet they do have major shortages of doctors in many areas. And yet they do have lower survival rates than we do for virtually every major disease. And yet they do have provisions in place for their citizens to take their country to court and get reimbursed for treatment that they were denied in Canada and received in America. I have yet to hear of the border-jumping occurring in the other direction.

All insurance companies are a fraud, just like banks and even though its a trillion dollar buisiness they are still getting bailed out by US(me and you), yet give us no service in return. Insurance companies refuse to insure those who have pre-existing medical condition. Why, because they can, just like the banks can take our deposits, invest it in a stock market, piss it away then get more money from our government to make up those loses......They are a burden on our society and unless we stand up for ourselves we will never fix this problem. Standing up against a trillion dollar machine is very hard, very hard indeed.

Do you know anything about insurance companies? I'm guessing no. Riddle me this: If insurance companies can no longer exclude pre-existing conditions, as our Dear Leader is telling us, then why on earth would anybody ever buy insurance before getting sick?

You would have to have a basic understanding of the process to answer this question, nay? Money goes into the system through premiums. It gets invested (sometimes poorly). Some gets paid out as claims. The rest is kept as a profit. Save the lectures about the evil of profits for someone else. I have no use for that discussion. Just try to answer my question about pre-existing conditions.

If I can't be excluded, then I can contribute a big zippo to the insurance pool, get sick, apply for coverage (for which I can't be denied) after the fact, pay my first premium, and then suck a bunch of money out of the pool. Quick summary: Bankrupt system. And they're not trying to destroy our existing coverage, right? Come on now.

So they put in a provision to dictate that I buy coverage, ostensibly to avoid the situation that I just described. If I choose not to comply, I pay a penalty of 2.5% of my income above a certain threshold. Since my premiums right now are right around 2.5% of my total income (leaving aside the much larger employer contribution), I'm better off opting out and bankrupting the system. But the lawyers who write these bills don't know this, right? Of course they do. Somehow though, I do suspect that the politicians have no idea what they're talking about.

[Dejanh]

Originally Posted by VitoCorleone99

$1.5-2 trillion in ten years is a drop in the bucket? You and I apparently have vastly differing understandings of that metaphor. And that's not even for a "universal" plan. We (the insured) would still be paying our premiums and co-pays, over and above the federal outlay.

Maintaining our empire costs roughly a trillion every year, this years military budget is about 650 billion alone so yes, it is a drop in a bucket compared to the 1.5 trillion over ten years and it does not include the ,,cost of doing nothing''. As far as co pays go you are paying them over and over right now. What is the federal outlay may i ask?

Originally Posted by VitoCorleone99

And yet they do have major shortages of doctors in many areas. And yet they do have lower survival rates than we do for virtually every major disease. And yet they do have provisions in place for their citizens to take their country to court and get reimbursed for treatment that they were denied in Canada and received in America. I have yet to hear of the border-jumping occurring in the other direction.

We have major shortages of doctors here, nurses as well and not in many areas but pretty much everywhere. Reason why many doctors from around the world come here is because their salaries, which cannot compare to any other salaries of their colleagues in other countries. Short for, they are making too much money..Alot of people would border jump and give up their citizenship if only our government would let them do so freely. THey passed the law in congress about ex-patriots, you would have to pay upwards of 10 years worth of taxes and much more if you did that. There are alot of ex-American citizens living in Canada.

Originally Posted by VitoCorleone99

Do you know anything about insurance companies? I'm guessing no. Riddle me this: If insurance companies can no longer exclude pre-existing conditions, as our Dear Leader is telling us, then why on earth would anybody ever buy insurance before getting sick?

THe point that am getting across is that even though you pay for insurance you are not getting your monies worth, because of these ridiculous costs included. My mom had to clear her arteries on her neck some times ago, total cost was 43K dollars which insurance covered about 70% . This was a exactly 45 min. operation, which in Europe would cost about, almost nothing.
To avoid a problem you mentioned above, everyone would pay into a fund just like you do now, its just that everyone would be covered and you would not have people(who do not have ins.) passing on their costs to those who have insurance already. Cost of not covering those who cannot afford it is way to high to keep the current system in place....

Originally Posted by VitoCorleone99

You would have to have a basic understanding of the process to answer this question, nay? Money goes into the system through premiums. It gets invested (sometimes poorly). Some gets paid out as claims. The rest is kept as a profit. Save the lectures about the evil of profits for someone else. I have no use for that discussion. Just try to answer my question about pre-existing conditions.

Pre existing conditions you say...what about those who loose their job, then after a while get a new one and want to apply to another insurance company with the condition already in place?
No one is calling on the profits even though they are outrageous compared to what service they give us in return. They are keeping the profits yet bankrupting our country.

Originally Posted by VitoCorleone99

If I can't be excluded, then I can contribute a big zippo to the insurance pool, get sick, apply for coverage (for which I can't be denied) after the fact, pay my first premium, and then suck a bunch of money out of the pool. Quick summary: Bankrupt system. And they're not trying to destroy our existing coverage, right? Come on now.

THats why you will have laws against it, do you really think they will let you run a scheme like that. You would pay a hefty fine or be punished somehow. Everyone will have to pay, simple like that. If you dont want to pay then its on you, get sick and pay it up yourself.

Originally Posted by VitoCorleone99

So they put in a provision to dictate that I buy coverage, ostensibly to avoid the situation that I just described. If I choose not to comply, I pay a penalty of 2.5% of my income above a certain threshold. Since my premiums right now are right around 2.5% of my total income (leaving aside the much larger employer contribution), I'm better off opting out and bankrupting the system. But the lawyers who write these bills don't know this, right? Of course they do. Somehow though, I do suspect that the politicians have no idea what they're talking about.

But why would you opt out if you would get a better deal. All incetives are for you to stay, not to leave so you would not pay a fine. People who try to use it will. Your medical cost would go down, thats the point.