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countryhorseman · Posted: Sat Apr 19, 2008 8:34 pm Post subject:

This is not true on engines built in the last 10 or so years! And if you know you are getting ready to shut down, the last couple of miles, the exit ramp, entering the parking area, and parking are more than enough time to bring the turbo down to an exceptable temperature!

And if it is a case of shutting it down for a few minutes to run inside, sign your fuel ticket, go to the bathroom, grab a drink and snack and head back out, it is a mute point again!

The extra maintenance cost you brought up in a previous post by shutting the engine down and restarting, is minimal, compared to fuel savings and idle wear and tear! Also, with the oils and bearing materials these days in the turbos, the chance of burning one down by not letting it cool down is also very unlikely!

Now if I were running an old big cam mechanical cummins, yup, darn well bet it will cool down for a bit before it is shutdown for the day!

Malaki86 wrote: It's also extremely bad on your turbo to shut the truck down immediately after pulling off the interstate. If the turbo fins are still spinning when you shut down the engine, you cut off the oil supply, hence frying the bearings. It takes 5-10mins of idling to cool down the bearings. So, in 10 mins I can be refueled and back out on the road.

TomB985 · Joined: 14 Sep 2006 Posts: 229 Location: Columbus, OH

Apparently Detroit Diesel agrees with you...they suggest a minimal cool down period to let the turbo spin down.

It bugs me when drivers do that...never let the truck shut down...this burns thousands of dollars in fuel each year...for no reason... :?

Mr. Ford95 · Joined: 19 Apr 2005 Posts: 1923 Location: Orange, VA

Tom, to each their own on when to idle and not to idle at night or during the day depending on the temps. You are ok at 50-60 degree weather, but I'm not. My allergies will get me in that range of temps and then I ain't no good for driving because I need that sleepy medicene Benadryl. How do you know those trucks are running 100% of the time they are shutdown?

countryhorseman · Posted: Sun Apr 20, 2008 7:06 am Post subject:

Mr. Ford95 wrote: How do you know those trucks are running 100% of the time they are shutdown?

Hmm, if they are shutdown, then they would not be running!

Parked = not running down the road!
Engine off = not running and wasting fuel while they are parked!

TomB985 · Joined: 14 Sep 2006 Posts: 229 Location: Columbus, OH

Mr. Ford95, I was just referring to those who I speak with, both on the internet and at the truck stop, who tell me they never shut their truck down.

Also, your situation with allergies is a bit different than normal, i would think. If you have to idle the truck to sleep, then that's what you have to do. I do NOT advocate being uncomfortable or jeopardizing your and everybody else's safety by sacrificing sleep for a few gallons of Diesel.

I was just referring to those who, out of habit, will not shut their truck down for any reason. I see people all the time, who go into the truck stop for 20 or 30 minutes, and just let the thing run. Very wasteful, IMHO...

DaveP · Posted: Sun Apr 20, 2008 9:23 am Post subject:

All this talk about "driver comfort" must have the old-timers just :roll: about now...

I know the first truck I ever drove was an 86 Freightliner COE that would beat your ass to death on ANY road. The AC never worked but the heater always (and I mean ALWAYS) did and the "mattress" on the bunk was a 3" thick piece of foam.

The '06 9400i I'm in now is a like "5-star" hotel room in comparison...

So....toughen up and shut that truck off. :wink:

Mr. Ford95 · Joined: 19 Apr 2005 Posts: 1923 Location: Orange, VA

country, your a riot with the smartas comments back :lol: Sorry if I wasn't clear enough for you but Tom knew what I was getting at.

Gotcha Tom, I shake my head at the one's who complain how their idle % is so high, yet they refuse to turn the truck off when they shutdown for their 10 hours, barring some medical condition. They seem to not understand the problem is, go figure......

bigtimba · Joined: 10 Sep 2006 Posts: 214

. . parked on either side of me and just running away. Of course, they have to run to preserve the freight and they probably don't run any more than they absolutely need to. But run and pollute they do.

There are posters here familiar with the Maine and New York anti idling statutes. What do they say about reefer idling? Was their any discussion about how much idle time was allowed to keep the eggs fresh versus time allowed to keep the Driver fresh?

TomB985 · Joined: 14 Sep 2006 Posts: 229 Location: Columbus, OH

I agree...but reefers never "idle", they are always working, or shut off....

BUT...they take no consideration of the driver into account when they make these laws. They don't seem to realize that most drivers are company drivers, who have no control whatsoever as to the anti-idling technologies available to them. If their company will not put an APU on their truck...they have no choice BUT to idle to stay cool....but that doesn't matter....they're IDLING and that's BAD.

Don't get me wrong...I don't mean to say all idling is bad...but I am saying that if there's no purpose behind it, other than to idle...it's wrong...

Down south, in 90 degree weather in hot sun...without an APU or other air conditioning device...idling is NOT optional, IMHO....

Malaki86 · Joined: 28 Aug 2004 Posts: 2104 Location: West Virginia

TomB985 wrote: I agree...but reefers never "idle", they are always working, or shut off....

BUT...they take no consideration of the driver into account when they make these laws. They don't seem to realize that most drivers are company drivers, who have no control whatsoever as to the anti-idling technologies available to them. If their company will not put an APU on their truck...they have no choice BUT to idle to stay cool....but that doesn't matter....they're IDLING and that's BAD.

Don't get me wrong...I don't mean to say all idling is bad...but I am saying that if there's no purpose behind it, other than to idle...it's wrong...

Down south, in 90 degree weather in hot sun...without an APU or other air conditioning device...idling is NOT optional, IMHO....

But idling in upstate New York when it's -5f IS optional?

bigtimba · Joined: 10 Sep 2006 Posts: 214

I'm on an involuntary reset, so I did your homework for you . .

The most surprising finding was that even I can be wrong.

bigtimba wrote: . . the others; 50% isn't a driver problem, that's a Werner problem.

Try the OSHA website and see what they have to say about it. (I'd do it myself but it sounds like you have more free time than I do.) If you can't find it, call them. There have got to be some guidlines, ie acceptable range of temperatures or equipment requirements for extreme temperatures.

Report back with your findings.

From the OSHA website:

1910.5(b)
None of the standards in this part shall apply to working conditions of employees with respect to which Federal agencies other than the Department of Labor, or State agencies acting under section 274 of the Atomic Energy Act of 1954, as amended (42 U.S.C. 2021), exercise statutory authority to prescribe or enforce standards or regulations affecting occupational safety or health.

As in DOT. OSHA standards don't apply to us. Try telling that to the guy who hands you your safety glasses, hardhat and respirator the next time you visit a mine . .

I looked through the entire index and didn't see anything related to temperature, so it's a moot point.

I'll give the DOT site a quick run through to see if they have anything to say about it . .

bigtimba · Joined: 10 Sep 2006 Posts: 214

http://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/rules-regulations/administration/fmcsr/fmcsrguidedetails.asp?rule_toc=768&section_toc=768

Links to FMCSA Part 399: Employee Safety and Health Standards

It came as a bit of a surprise that there is only one standard . . and it has to do with . .

Whammo · Joined: 02 Apr 2008 Posts: 140

Could someone please explain to me in newbie terms about the "turbo" and why it needs to cool off, and why with the engine running?

TIA

gmh · Joined: 08 Dec 2007 Posts: 391 Location: Southern Maryland

Whammo wrote: Could someone please explain to me in newbie terms about the "turbo" and why it needs to cool off, and why with the engine running?

TIA

Increases power from the engine. It spins VERY fast. Oil keeps it cool while running. When the engine is shut off, it stops spinning, but the oil also stops moving. This can let the oil heat up and burn where it is in contact with the bearings. Also lets the bearings get/stay too hot for too long. End result is an expensive repair.

Running at idle lets the turbo spin slower, but oil keeps moving, so it cools down. Then engine can be shut off without turbo damage.

TomB985 · Joined: 14 Sep 2006 Posts: 229 Location: Columbus, OH

Malaki86 wrote: But idling in upstate New York when it's -5f IS optional?

Nope, not optional one bit...I was just using hot weather as an example, that's all...

When my APU was put on, my company reset the ECU on my engine, taking away the ability to idle. Theoretically, the APU's supposed to keep the engine warm...but I do NOT trust it as far as sub-zero temps...I expect to get towed a couple times next winter......

Yeah, in that weather, I wouldn't shut the truck down either...

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